young pyro comes out against so many decks that you'll feel dumb for adding it mainboard in the first place. out against every fast deck. not good against bolt decks.
why do pple play it ? no one knows
Young Peezy is not a fire and forget option. He requires some setup, and I will rarely even play him on Turn 2 even if it's available. I prefer waiting until turn 3 wherein you can play him, cast a Gitaxian Probe and/or a cantrip/ Lightning Bolt.
@Johnny_Tempel , I've been running lists without Gurmag Angler for a decent amount of time and I can only think of a single time when I would have wanted it in. I'd drop it for a Countersquall or even a Grim Lavamancer, which seems really good in your meta.
Would you guys play Young Pyromancer without the 3 Gitaxian Probe? I'm playing the more controling Overturf list but Vendilion Clique underwhelmed me a bit. My idea was to cut 1x Clique and 1x Countersquall to add 2x Young Pyromancer for more and faster threats. But I always disliked the Probes. Often the information isn't really valuable, my delve fatties got enough grave fodder and I play my Peezy not turn 2 into removal.
The whole point of Gitaxian Probe is for "free" card draw in addition to a free token for Young Pyromancer. I agree it's smart to not just play it turn 2, but Probe helps you cycle through your deck much more quickly. It depends on what you do with the info, too, especially with counters. I wouldn't play one without the other. Too bad Cabal Therapy isn't in the format.
Would you guys play Young Pyromancer without the 3 Gitaxian Probe? I'm playing the more controling Overturf list but Vendilion Clique underwhelmed me a bit. My idea was to cut 1x Clique and 1x Countersquall to add 2x Young Pyromancer for more and faster threats. But I always disliked the Probes. Often the information isn't really valuable, my delve fatties got enough grave fodder and I play my Peezy not turn 2 into removal.
I recently hopped back on the Young Pyro bandwagon and I'm not running Probes. I don't like the added lifeloss when our only way to pad our life is with Collective Brutality. The odds of having Pyro and Probe in hand turn 2 are pretty low, and it's easy enough to get value out of him past turn two. I don't think Pyro should be a main focus of the deck, rather a complement, and adding 3 more slots for Probes because you add Pyro is too big of a consideration when he already slots into the pre-existing shell fine.
I've found Probes are just nice in general because with the reduction in counterspells, it can be used to see if the coast is clear to land a fragile threat (like Delver or YP). It also keeps mana curves low and replaces itself with a card. I don't run the full 4, but I wouldn't cut to less than 3.
imho, the value of probe is inversely proportional to the number of lava spikes at your store. Paying 2 life to see guide, swiftie, spike, bolt, searing, foundry, mountain is pretty crappy.
otherwise, I like having 1 more card to delve, information, and of course pyro triggers.
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
I played a list very similar to Overturf's controlling Delver list for months. I loved it, but it's just not that good. You don't have enough answers to stablize and rely on a small number of threats. YP represents an exponential threat in addition to annoying Delvers and robust Tasigurs. I went from months of 2-2 and 1-3 nights to back to back to back 3-1s after going to a more aggressive build, cutting counterspells, adding YP, and upping my burn.
Is this deck playable without Tarns and AV? I have the classic Ryan Overturf list. I need to sell some cards to make some quick money, and I was thinking Tarns and AV would be the biggest bucks without sacrificing much playablity.
Is this deck playable without Tarns and AV? I have the classic Ryan Overturf list. I need to sell some cards to make some quick money, and I was thinking Tarns and AV would be the biggest bucks without sacrificing much playablity.
Ancestral Vision? Sure it is fine without. Tarns? Not so much imo, but you can always sub some other blue fetch if you need to. This is assuming you have 4x Deltas already.
Yes, it is. AV can be replaced by a couple Painful Truths. I had to run a budget mana base when I first started building the deck. In a 19 land list, the fetches I used were 3 Bloodstained Mire, 2 Flooded Strand, and 4 Polluted Delta. It worked, but not having Tarn will hurt you occasionally.
I always bring them in and they are so effective! and if it fetches for basics it slows down a lot his gameplan!
And if you do not bring them in against Jund, a massive 3 colors deck with no mana dorks, what are they useful for?
I have always used moons in sideboard and they are sooo good against a great amount of decks: from midrange/control 3-colors decks to combo (valakut decks, ad nauseam). Moreover, once you have a basic island and swamp we can easily play it cause personally I am playing so few counters that the probability of making snapcaster-counter is low and a lot of times you do not even need it since blood moon locks the match
Blood Moon is all the rage for Jund side-boards these days. They might bring it in against Grixis Delver. You know, massive three-color deck that runs four or more fewer lands than they typically do.
Went 2-2 last night, losing 0-2 to RG Ponza (they were silly games and I drew quite poorly) and then 0-1-1 to 'Blue Jund'. I would have won game 2 if it hadn't gone to time.
I beat Jeskai Flash 2-1 and Affinity 2-0.
This was my first time playing with Pyromancer and he was MVP all night. I now get the hype. He took over the game against Affinity and Jeskai.
I am on Kevin Jones' 60 except with 1 less Electrolyze and 1 more counterspell. I think it was a great list.
Also, Blood Moon won me the game whenever it came down and I want a second.
I always bring them in and they are so effective! and if it fetches for basics it slows down a lot his gameplan!
And if you do not bring them in against Jund, a massive 3 colors deck with no mana dorks, what are they useful for?
I have always used moons in sideboard and they are sooo good against a great amount of decks: from midrange/control 3-colors decks to combo (valakut decks, ad nauseam). Moreover, once you have a basic island and swamp we can easily play it cause personally I am playing so few counters that the probability of making snapcaster-counter is low and a lot of times you do not even need it since blood moon locks the match
Blood Moon is all the rage for Jund side-boards these days. They might bring it in against Grixis Delver. You know, massive three-color deck that runs four or more fewer lands than they typically do.
Jund playing blood moon in its sideboard? Are you sure you have ever played against Jund in the last years?
Tons of Jund lists are playing Blood Moon. I have it in my Jund sideboard as well.
bringing Blood Moons against Jund seems kinda loose. You should at least watch how your opp. fetches in g2 and then maybe bring them in g3.
I'm of this same opinion, especially when it comes to unknown metas. In my local meta, nobody has Blood Moon in their Jund but I've certainly encountered it online and elsewhere.
Played my first weekly event with Grixis Delver (Overturf's 75) and went 3-1
Grats on the wins!
I´d like to slot in blood moons into my sideboard to have game against bant eldrazi, any suggestions what to cut for it and how to adapt the mana base (if necessary)?
I take it you have a lot of Dredge in your meta? 4 Surgical Extraction strikes me as hardcore overkill. Personally, I'd drop 2 of the Surgical Extraction for 2 Blood Moon.
As for the mana base I was concidering cutting the mountain for either another island or another spirebluff canal.
In my test games so far I have frequently gotten 1 Land hands that only had non blue lands by were otherwise very keepable so I´d like to reduce the amount of non blue sources in the deck.
Check out TheFakeSlimShady's list, of which I'm also currently running. Max out those Spirebluff Canals!
I always bring them in and they are so effective! and if it fetches for basics it slows down a lot his gameplan!
And if you do not bring them in against Jund, a massive 3 colors deck with no mana dorks, what are they useful for?
I have always used moons in sideboard and they are sooo good against a great amount of decks: from midrange/control 3-colors decks to combo (valakut decks, ad nauseam). Moreover, once you have a basic island and swamp we can easily play it cause personally I am playing so few counters that the probability of making snapcaster-counter is low and a lot of times you do not even need it since blood moon locks the match
Blood Moon is all the rage for Jund side-boards these days. They might bring it in against Grixis Delver. You know, massive three-color deck that runs four or more fewer lands than they typically do.
Jund playing blood moon in its sideboard? Are you sure you have ever played against Jund in the last years?
Played it (currently on Obliterock), played against it, follow the forum. Blood Moon has become popular in Jund recently in response to the increase in popularity of Valakut and Eldrazi decks. A few radicals are even running Blood Moon main-deck in Jund.
Jund is a better Blood Moon deck than Grixis Delver. They can get it on-line more reliably and they usually have a better mana-base to support it. It's still a piece of crap to have to run in either, but it hoses some decks worse than Grixis Delver or Jund. Current thinking is it's worth running for those match-ups. It certainly seems a better card for Jund as those match-ups are probably worse for them than Grixis Delver.
Young Peezy is not a fire and forget option. He requires some setup, and I will rarely even play him on Turn 2 even if it's available. I prefer waiting until turn 3 wherein you can play him, cast a Gitaxian Probe and/or a cantrip/ Lightning Bolt.
@Johnny_Tempel , I've been running lists without Gurmag Angler for a decent amount of time and I can only think of a single time when I would have wanted it in. I'd drop it for a Countersquall or even a Grim Lavamancer, which seems really good in your meta.
The whole point of Gitaxian Probe is for "free" card draw in addition to a free token for Young Pyromancer. I agree it's smart to not just play it turn 2, but Probe helps you cycle through your deck much more quickly. It depends on what you do with the info, too, especially with counters. I wouldn't play one without the other. Too bad Cabal Therapy isn't in the format.
I recently hopped back on the Young Pyro bandwagon and I'm not running Probes. I don't like the added lifeloss when our only way to pad our life is with Collective Brutality. The odds of having Pyro and Probe in hand turn 2 are pretty low, and it's easy enough to get value out of him past turn two. I don't think Pyro should be a main focus of the deck, rather a complement, and adding 3 more slots for Probes because you add Pyro is too big of a consideration when he already slots into the pre-existing shell fine.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
otherwise, I like having 1 more card to delve, information, and of course pyro triggers.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Youtube Channel
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Ancestral Vision? Sure it is fine without. Tarns? Not so much imo, but you can always sub some other blue fetch if you need to. This is assuming you have 4x Deltas already.
BGX Midrange
URX Control
Blood Moon is all the rage for Jund side-boards these days. They might bring it in against Grixis Delver. You know, massive three-color deck that runs four or more fewer lands than they typically do.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I beat Jeskai Flash 2-1 and Affinity 2-0.
This was my first time playing with Pyromancer and he was MVP all night. I now get the hype. He took over the game against Affinity and Jeskai.
I am on Kevin Jones' 60 except with 1 less Electrolyze and 1 more counterspell. I think it was a great list.
Also, Blood Moon won me the game whenever it came down and I want a second.
I'm running this list at the moment: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-08-16-wFe-grixis-delver/
I like Forked Bolt over Electrolyze because I want my curve as low as possible, and I already run 2 Kolaghan's Command.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Tons of Jund lists are playing Blood Moon. I have it in my Jund sideboard as well.
I'm of this same opinion, especially when it comes to unknown metas. In my local meta, nobody has Blood Moon in their Jund but I've certainly encountered it online and elsewhere.
Grats on the wins!
I take it you have a lot of Dredge in your meta? 4 Surgical Extraction strikes me as hardcore overkill. Personally, I'd drop 2 of the Surgical Extraction for 2 Blood Moon.
Check out TheFakeSlimShady's list, of which I'm also currently running. Max out those Spirebluff Canals!
Played it (currently on Obliterock), played against it, follow the forum. Blood Moon has become popular in Jund recently in response to the increase in popularity of Valakut and Eldrazi decks. A few radicals are even running Blood Moon main-deck in Jund.
Jund is a better Blood Moon deck than Grixis Delver. They can get it on-line more reliably and they usually have a better mana-base to support it. It's still a piece of crap to have to run in either, but it hoses some decks worse than Grixis Delver or Jund. Current thinking is it's worth running for those match-ups. It certainly seems a better card for Jund as those match-ups are probably worse for them than Grixis Delver.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
EDIT: Here's Kevin's list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=109506