I don't play this deck quite yet but I'm slowly acquiring the pieces for it. In that vein, kudos to you for a solid and insightful look into the deck.
With storm and scapeshift taking larger portions of the metagame, what do you think the ideal move forward is for Vizier combo? Streamline or slow down?
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May I request some feedback on this list please?
In a lot of ways it's "stock", except for the inclusion of the following package:
1x azusa
1x knight of the reliquary
1x ramunap excavator
1x ghost quarter (maybe 2x)
My hope is that these three creatures are all decent on their own, but any two of them on the board forms a powerful mana-denial package, and all three is kind of unbeatable.
The cards have been put together before. Todd Stevens recently did well with a list maxing out on these pieces. My logic on only including one of each is that it only takes drawing one before it's viable to chord for another and start locking an opponent down. Knight is going to be worth including anyway, and having access to ghost quarter for tricky Big-mana matchups will be an extra angle of attack that I've not had with this deck so far.
Couple of bits I may yet change:
- Razorverge thicket vs. second ghost quarter (might drop a thicket to include one more quarter)
- Selfless spirit vs. scavenging ooze (either could be maindeck. Meta dependant)
- Number of fetches. Was running x8 but dropped a heath for an extra basic forest (wanted one more fetchable land). I feel like this is a fair swap based on my experiences with the deck so far. Any input on having 2x basic forest would be appreciated. I find I often want a second one.
Constructive criticism please. The core doesn't diverge much from the sort of accepted "stock" version of course, but I've got an inkling that this package I'm including could be very good. Remains to be seen of course!
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Seems like the Devoted Remedies combo slots into a lot of different shells. Knightfall and the Finks combo are things a lot of us have tried I'm guessing, but have their shortcomings. Retreat to Coralhelm isn't tutorable and adds misses to Company. The Finks combo is really powerful in that it doesn't rely on untapping with a creature, but doesn't win the game and uses the graveyard. It slots in great with Elves, people have played 4x Druid in the deck before Vizier was even legal, and Ezuri is already a card you want to run four of in the first place.
My question for you guys is, what less common combos have you played alongside Devoted Remedies? With Aggro and Big Mana being pillars of Modern, it's important to threaten fast and consistent goldfishes if you're not interacting. One combo I've come across that seemed sort of reasonable is Pili-Pala + Grand Architect. A tough pill to swallow when Vizier Druid does about the same thing with better pieces outside their combo, but CoCo-able combos that kill that turn and don't use the graveyard are hard to come by. At least the deck is already set up to find something to do with infinite mana, and I suppose it's nice that Grand Architect is kind of a hasty dork in that it pushes out a Pili-Pala or 1/1 Ballista that turn it comes in play. Still a little unimpressed with the combo.
I don't play this deck quite yet but I'm slowly acquiring the pieces for it. In that vein, kudos to you for a solid and insightful look into the deck.
With storm and scapeshift taking larger portions of the metagame, what do you think the ideal move forward is for Vizier combo? Streamline or slow down?
It has to be streamlined. You are not going to win longer games against those decks because we simply do not play enough disruption to combat them. I have always played the deck as a combo deck game 1, and if the matchup calls for it I can transition into a grindy deck game 2 and 3. Luckily for us, both of these decks don't play a ton of spot removal (but scapeshift plays a billion boardwipes and is horrible for us). With the printing of the Druid combo we can combo off turn 3 in games I'd say ~40-50% of the time if undisrupted and probably 80-90% on turn 4. Both of these decks play minimal disruption which is good for us. Its the same way we can race Tron these days where before you would lose 11 out of 10 games against them. If anything I've thought about starting to cut some numbers of Kitchen Finks to increase Druid the combo speed as the Finks are used as a stalling tactic or card advantage engine vs decks we don't want to race. This is also why I talked about Eldritch Evolution from the sideboard to speed up the combo games 2 and 3 if we require it some posts ago.
May I request some feedback on this list please?
In a lot of ways it's "stock", except for the inclusion of the following package:
1x azusa
1x knight of the reliquary
1x ramunap excavator
1x ghost quarter (maybe 2x)
My hope is that these three creatures are all decent on their own, but any two of them on the board forms a powerful mana-denial package, and all three is kind of unbeatable.
The cards have been put together before. Todd Stevens recently did well with a list maxing out on these pieces. My logic on only including one of each is that it only takes drawing one before it's viable to chord for another and start locking an opponent down. Knight is going to be worth including anyway, and having access to ghost quarter for tricky Big-mana matchups will be an extra angle of attack that I've not had with this deck so far.
Couple of bits I may yet change:
- Razorverge thicket vs. second ghost quarter (might drop a thicket to include one more quarter)
- Selfless spirit vs. scavenging ooze (either could be maindeck. Meta dependant)
- Number of fetches. Was running x8 but dropped a heath for an extra basic forest (wanted one more fetchable land). I feel like this is a fair swap based on my experiences with the deck so far. Any input on having 2x basic forest would be appreciated. I find I often want a second one.
Constructive criticism please. The core doesn't diverge much from the sort of accepted "stock" version of course, but I've got an inkling that this package I'm including could be very good. Remains to be seen of course!
So obviously I haven't played your list but one thing kept popping up in my head reading through your post.
If you are playing those 1-of's and happen to get any 2 into play then they are very powerful; yes this is true. If you have one in play and have a Chord in hand and one in play then you can find the second one; yes this is true. What I am seeing is that the chances of having the a Devoted Druid or Vizier of remedies in play if going to be far far far far more common than any of these singletons (since you run 4 of each). In that case I'd want to Chord or Company for the other piece in hopes of comboing off. I think you may want a few more copies of the cards in order to make it a legitimate strategy. If you opponent realizes 1 isn't a huge threat but 2 in play at the same time are then they will just remove it. Most people playing against the deck make the mistake of removing suboptimal targets, but playing against a removal heavy deck who knows ours well is really hard to get the combo pushed through. I'm not saying the idea is bad, just that it is probably going to come up less often than you think and if it does then you probably could have worked to assemble the Druid combo instead.
On the topic however, I have thought about incorporating hatebears into the deck. Imagine dropping Finks and the splash colour all together. This would let you play some more crazy things like Leonin Arbiter or Aven Mindcensor and a bunch of Ghost Quarters. You would simultaneously have a GW Hatebears land destruction deck and a Druid-Vizier combo deck which seems great on paper but in practice they're different strategies which don't really help each other to win. I'm always tinkering around with the idea though in hopes of something.
Seems like the Devoted Remedies combo slots into a lot of different shells. Knightfall and the Finks combo are things a lot of us have tried I'm guessing, but have their shortcomings. Retreat to Coralhelm isn't tutorable and adds misses to Company. The Finks combo is really powerful in that it doesn't rely on untapping with a creature, but doesn't win the game and uses the graveyard. It slots in great with Elves, people have played 4x Druid in the deck before Vizier was even legal, and Ezuri is already a card you want to run four of in the first place.
My question for you guys is, what less common combos have you played alongside Devoted Remedies? With Aggro and Big Mana being pillars of Modern, it's important to threaten fast and consistent goldfishes if you're not interacting. One combo I've come across that seemed sort of reasonable is Pili-Pala + Grand Architect. A tough pill to swallow when Vizier Druid does about the same thing with better pieces outside their combo, but CoCo-able combos that kill that turn and don't use the graveyard are hard to come by. At least the deck is already set up to find something to do with infinite mana, and I suppose it's nice that Grand Architect is kind of a hasty dork in that it pushes out a Pili-Pala or 1/1 Ballista that turn it comes in play. Still a little unimpressed with the combo.
Any other ideas?
Well I mean people have played Anglefeeder since it's been printed but it was always personal preference and not even that great compared to alternatives. Pili-Pala + Grand Architect is even more fragile with Pili-Pala being worse than Druid or Vizier and Grand Architect being an engine card is going to get targeted a lot. It has only seen success in Blue Steel and there is a reason why.
Lately I've been brewing up three different Cream of the Crop decks and one of them is dabbling in Impromptu Raid. I thought about just shoving the combo in there as Druid helps ramp out Raid while the combo if it goes off lets you flip the entire deck into play. Its not a good deck by any means but I like brewing stuff and it could work there. Anything relevant that Druid-Vizier could already slot into has been discovered. Anything else is going to be jank.
Is it better to just play 1 over the other, or does this meta require 1 of each?
They do different things to win the game, although very corner case it does come up some times. Ideally you just play one in your deck as once you have the combo you can draw Chord/Company/Duskwatch/Finisher giving a total of about 10 cards in your deck to just win on the spot. I have been playing both as it lets you get the uninterrupted turn 3 kill a little bit faster and in fast metagames it helps. If I went to something more wide open I'd probably only play Rhonas in the maindeck. It comes up sometimes that you can't attack with a creature but the times you put him into play with Company for later outweighs Ballista for me.
I think people playing both ballista and Rhonas are doing it wrong. Bold statement I know, but you don't need 2 win conditions after infinite mana.
I personally think Rhonas is better, as you can hit it off coco, so you can win with just druid combo + a coco, which happens sometimes. I have played hundreds of games now, and not ONCE were I not able to win with either Rhonas, or just going infinite with finks after drawing all my creatures and playing them. The cases where it doesnt work are so suuuuper fringe.
Rhonas wins through ensnaring bridge, and you can play around weird cards like deflecting palm if you actually play the deck a bit. (people bringing in deflecting palm against this deck are also wrong)
You allways get duskwatch recruiter and play all your things before going for the win, which eliminates like 99,99% of things that can go wrong.
If your meta is full of affinity, hatebears, mirror and elves, then I see the argument for ballista, but then I'd rather have Orzhov pontiff main instead. Ballista is such a horrible play for 2 or 4 mana against so many decks, it's just a dead card too often, and a miss off coco.
Is it better to just play 1 over the other, or does this meta require 1 of each?
They do different things to win the game, although very corner case it does come up some times. Ideally you just play one in your deck as once you have the combo you can draw Chord/Company/Duskwatch/Finisher giving a total of about 10 cards in your deck to just win on the spot. I have been playing both as it lets you get the uninterrupted turn 3 kill a little bit faster and in fast metagames it helps. If I went to something more wide open I'd probably only play Rhonas in the maindeck. It comes up sometimes that you can't attack with a creature but the times you put him into play with Company for later outweighs Ballista for me.
I think people playing both ballista and Rhonas are doing it wrong. Bold statement I know, but you don't need 2 win conditions after infinite mana.
I personally think Rhonas is better, as you can hit it off coco, so you can win with just druid combo + a coco, which happens sometimes. I have played hundreds of games now, and not ONCE were I not able to win with either Rhonas, or just going infinite with finks after drawing all my creatures and playing them. The cases where it doesnt work are so suuuuper fringe.
Rhonas wins through ensnaring bridge, and you can play around weird cards like deflecting palm if you actually play the deck a bit. (people bringing in deflecting palm against this deck are also wrong)
You allways get duskwatch recruiter and play all your things before going for the win, which eliminates like 99,99% of things that can go wrong.
If your meta is full of affinity, hatebears, mirror and elves, then I see the argument for ballista, but then I'd rather have Orzhov pontiff main instead. Ballista is such a horrible play for 2 or 4 mana against so many decks, it's just a dead card too often, and a miss off coco.
Thanks for the replies guys!
Since it seems better to play Rhonas over Ballista (which was my initial intuition), how should I tweak my current list?
Do I remove the Ballista for a 4th E. Wit, or a 3rd Duskwatch Recruiter, or a second Seer? Or maybe something else entirely?
Hey all--- I'm a long time knightfall player who has been also messing with vizier builds, and I've been enjoying playing abzan as it's much more streamlined (Though I really miss my knights...).
One deck that runs RAMPANT in my meta is the bane of my existence--- jeskai control/jeskai queller/geist decks. I feel pretty powerless against them. Do nay of you have suggestions both on playing against them or in my deck construction? I've contemplated cards like voice to fight against them, but overall it feels terrible.
So after making the biggest punt ever (tm) against RG Ponza, I've been inspired to take a different approach to mana acceleration.
How do you all feel about using the Ponza package of Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl? The main advantage I see for this would be the possibility for Turn 2 Company while still retaining the mana for later (the sequence is turn 1 Arbor Elf into turn 2 Utopia Spawl for 4 mana off 1 Forest). Plus, the last thing I want to hit off CoCo is a mana dork, so the disadvantages are fairly minor.
I'd advocate for playing the 4th Ewit before anything else. It is basically an extension of every other card in your deck. Lets you out-grind midrange decks, and does work with Company. I always play 4.
Hey all--- I'm a long time knightfall player who has been also messing with vizier builds, and I've been enjoying playing abzan as it's much more streamlined (Though I really miss my knights...).
One deck that runs RAMPANT in my meta is the bane of my existence--- jeskai control/jeskai queller/geist decks. I feel pretty powerless against them. Do any of you have suggestions both on playing against them or in my deck construction? I've contemplated cards like voice to fight against them, but overall it feels terrible.
Any suggestions are welcome!
I have found you are going to have to play it as a midrange matchup vs UWR because they have so much removal flying around. You're not really going to get to combo off so try and run their resources dry with Finks while avoiding getting blown out by a Supreme Verdict. The midrange and Geist version run a bit less removal so you can usually squeak the combo off somewhere in there. Force them to play interaction on their turn with Company/Chord then when they're tapped out you can combo off. Basically get 2 pieces in your hand and bait them.
So after making the biggest punt ever (tm) against RG Ponza, I've been inspired to take a different approach to mana acceleration.
How do you all feel about using the Ponza package of Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl? The main advantage I see for this would be the possibility for Turn 2 Company while still retaining the mana for later (the sequence is turn 1 Arbor Elf into turn 2 Utopia Spawl for 4 mana off 1 Forest). Plus, the last thing I want to hit off CoCo is a mana dork, so the disadvantages are fairly minor.
It makes the deck worse. Gavony Township is the backup plan and you can't put +1/+1 counters on Utopia Sprawl. And what would you rather? Hitting a manadork off of Company or nothing at all?? There should be no argument to playing those cards in the deck over the traditional 6-7 manadorks. We only need 1 manadork to be good where with those cards you have to play all 8 and need both to truly be great.
So after making the biggest punt ever (tm) against RG Ponza, I've been inspired to take a different approach to mana acceleration.
How do you all feel about using the Ponza package of Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl? The main advantage I see for this would be the possibility for Turn 2 Company while still retaining the mana for later (the sequence is turn 1 Arbor Elf into turn 2 Utopia Spawl for 4 mana off 1 Forest). Plus, the last thing I want to hit off CoCo is a mana dork, so the disadvantages are fairly minor.
It makes the deck worse. Gavony Township is the backup plan and you can't put +1/+1 counters on Utopia Sprawl. And what would you rather? Hitting a manadork off of Company or nothing at all?? There should be no argument to playing those cards in the deck over the traditional 6-7 manadorks. We only need 1 manadork to be good where with those cards you have to play all 8 and need both to truly be great.
Alright, wasn't expecting this harsh of a backlash, but I may as well defend my argument.
First, it seems as though we're looking to bolster two different strategies within Vizier Combo; I'd like to increase my early kills by some unknown percentage whereas you and others would like to stabilize the late game via Gavony. I can understand both arguments.
Second, Utopia Sprawl is actually good by itself (I'd go so far as to say its better outside of not being to attack) as you can tap whatever land you enchant with it right away.
Ultimately, it is something I'm just interested in testing, and if it doesn't pan out, oh well: lesson learned.
There are a lot of ideas that are so bad as to not be worth testing. The arbor elf angle is one of them. It has no place in a deck with collected company.
I am playing 4 eternal witnesses in the main. I find them very useful and makes coco very good and comboing off turn three much consistent when you also have chord in hand. I usually side out 1-2 e wit when I am facing aggro decks. But in attrition matchups, e wit is king.
Witness is pretty key to this deck and running less than 4 seems wrong unless your meta is pretty much all aggro/fast combo. In grindy MU's she's usually the best way to survive and win, and in fast MU's she's boarded out or ignored. For example, against Affinity, all we want is t2 Druid, t3 kill, which requires a minimum 5 cf the 9-10 cards we'll have at that point. Yes, she can be a bad draw there, but so will be anything that doesn't fit our kill sequence (more lands, multiple combo pieces, etc). Board her out for game 2/3 and all's well.
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"I can call an army to my side in the blink of an eye. Best not blink."
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
If you're sideboarding in path to exile, eternal witness is key to you winning attrition matchups with that sideboard strategy.
With the devoted druid combo, IMHO, 4 eternal witnesses is mandatory. The percentage of the time a witness off the top is a 3rd combo piece with infinite mana is extremely high.
Sideboard some number (Up to 3) them out when they're bad, which is pretty much exclusively against burn, tron and storm. You always want one so you can chord for witness for a missing combo piece you've already cast.
If your meta is heavily tron/burn/storm, the best answer most likely is to sideboard some hate, and possibly make your main deck flex slots 1 sin collector and 1 spellskite instead selfless spirit/pontiff type cards.
There are a lot of ideas that are so bad as to not be worth testing. The arbor elf angle is one of them. It has no place in a deck with collected company.
Yet somehow we return to Simian Spirit Guide from time to time for similar reasons; does it all go back to Collected Company itself?
I suppose it doesn't matter though. I'm not here to prove you wrong; I'm here to share my experiences with this community and learn how to be a better player and deckbuilder. And since I am not receiving any constructive argument against my position, I'll simply refrain from detracting from any constructive conversation.
I've been testing a bant version using 3 Trinket Mage and have been having solid success on cockatrice. Being able to tutor a Walking Ballista is huge. I also run a pair of Aether Vial main to relieve pressure from counter spells and sorcery speed removal. Forcing your opp on the defensive with vial allows you to dictate the momentum of the game in your favor. Even with mana dorks to ramp on turn one I find myself casting vial first because I really only want to ramp into 4 mana anyway for Collected Company and eot vial activation on one, then untapping for turn 2, triggering vial, allows me three major things for my third turn. I now have 4 mana on turn 3, a vial on 2 and open mana. I can vial in a Devoted Druid at the end of my opp's turn and hope for the best, if they try to kill it before before I untap I can cast Chord of Calling and tap out for another druid, or hail mary with company. This play that I've just mentioned has won me many games. Additionally, vial is also a tutor target if you don't rip one early and need to dance around control.
Trinket Mage offers a bevy of support after board as well. Thing's like Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Scrabbling Claws, Grafdigger's Cage, or even a Brittle Effigy. My personal favorite is Basilisk Collar. It's a silver bullet against creature decks and provides a cushion against burn.
The upside this package contains is that the combo no longer features a graveyard requirement. This makes your opp sideboard grave hate dead cards if they think you're running the original combo.
The downside is losing some sweet,sweet, infinite life gain and some classic utility creatures like Tidehollow Sculler but there is still a silver lining. Meddling Mage is now an option along with Spell Queller, Vendilion Clique, and Kira,Great Glass-Spinner. The mana base plus vial provide plenty of fixing.
With storm and scapeshift taking larger portions of the metagame, what do you think the ideal move forward is for Vizier combo? Streamline or slow down?
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Feel free to PM me about Affinity decks in any format!
In a lot of ways it's "stock", except for the inclusion of the following package:
1x azusa
1x knight of the reliquary
1x ramunap excavator
1x ghost quarter (maybe 2x)
My hope is that these three creatures are all decent on their own, but any two of them on the board forms a powerful mana-denial package, and all three is kind of unbeatable.
The cards have been put together before. Todd Stevens recently did well with a list maxing out on these pieces. My logic on only including one of each is that it only takes drawing one before it's viable to chord for another and start locking an opponent down. Knight is going to be worth including anyway, and having access to ghost quarter for tricky Big-mana matchups will be an extra angle of attack that I've not had with this deck so far.
List:
4x birds of paradise
2x noble hierarch
4x eternal witness
4x kitchen finks
4x devoted druid
4x Vizier of remedies
1x azusa, lost but seeking
1x knight of the reliquary
1x ramunap excavator
1x viscera seer
2x duskwatch recruiter
1x walking ballista
1x selfless spirit
4x chord of Calling
4x collected company
Lands (22)
1x ghost quarter
3x gavony township
4x verdant catacombs
3x windswept heath
2x razorverge thicket
2x forest
1x plains
2x temple garden
1x godless shrine
1x overgrown tomb
2x horizon canopy
2x sin collector
1x aven mindcensor
1x phyrexian revoker
1x burrenton forge-tender
1x scavenging ooze
1x Eidolon of rhetoric
1x orzhov pontiff
1x reclamation sage
1x reveillark
2x path to exile
2x abrupt decay
1x Kataki, war's wage
Couple of bits I may yet change:
- Razorverge thicket vs. second ghost quarter (might drop a thicket to include one more quarter)
- Selfless spirit vs. scavenging ooze (either could be maindeck. Meta dependant)
- Number of fetches. Was running x8 but dropped a heath for an extra basic forest (wanted one more fetchable land). I feel like this is a fair swap based on my experiences with the deck so far. Any input on having 2x basic forest would be appreciated. I find I often want a second one.
Constructive criticism please. The core doesn't diverge much from the sort of accepted "stock" version of course, but I've got an inkling that this package I'm including could be very good. Remains to be seen of course!
My question for you guys is, what less common combos have you played alongside Devoted Remedies? With Aggro and Big Mana being pillars of Modern, it's important to threaten fast and consistent goldfishes if you're not interacting. One combo I've come across that seemed sort of reasonable is Pili-Pala + Grand Architect. A tough pill to swallow when Vizier Druid does about the same thing with better pieces outside their combo, but CoCo-able combos that kill that turn and don't use the graveyard are hard to come by. At least the deck is already set up to find something to do with infinite mana, and I suppose it's nice that Grand Architect is kind of a hasty dork in that it pushes out a Pili-Pala or 1/1 Ballista that turn it comes in play. Still a little unimpressed with the combo.
Any other ideas?
So obviously I haven't played your list but one thing kept popping up in my head reading through your post.
If you are playing those 1-of's and happen to get any 2 into play then they are very powerful; yes this is true. If you have one in play and have a Chord in hand and one in play then you can find the second one; yes this is true. What I am seeing is that the chances of having the a Devoted Druid or Vizier of remedies in play if going to be far far far far more common than any of these singletons (since you run 4 of each). In that case I'd want to Chord or Company for the other piece in hopes of comboing off. I think you may want a few more copies of the cards in order to make it a legitimate strategy. If you opponent realizes 1 isn't a huge threat but 2 in play at the same time are then they will just remove it. Most people playing against the deck make the mistake of removing suboptimal targets, but playing against a removal heavy deck who knows ours well is really hard to get the combo pushed through. I'm not saying the idea is bad, just that it is probably going to come up less often than you think and if it does then you probably could have worked to assemble the Druid combo instead.
On the topic however, I have thought about incorporating hatebears into the deck. Imagine dropping Finks and the splash colour all together. This would let you play some more crazy things like Leonin Arbiter or Aven Mindcensor and a bunch of Ghost Quarters. You would simultaneously have a GW Hatebears land destruction deck and a Druid-Vizier combo deck which seems great on paper but in practice they're different strategies which don't really help each other to win. I'm always tinkering around with the idea though in hopes of something.
Well I mean people have played Anglefeeder since it's been printed but it was always personal preference and not even that great compared to alternatives. Pili-Pala + Grand Architect is even more fragile with Pili-Pala being worse than Druid or Vizier and Grand Architect being an engine card is going to get targeted a lot. It has only seen success in Blue Steel and there is a reason why.
Lately I've been brewing up three different Cream of the Crop decks and one of them is dabbling in Impromptu Raid. I thought about just shoving the combo in there as Druid helps ramp out Raid while the combo if it goes off lets you flip the entire deck into play. Its not a good deck by any means but I like brewing stuff and it could work there. Anything relevant that Druid-Vizier could already slot into has been discovered. Anything else is going to be jank.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Is it better to just play 1 over the other, or does this meta require 1 of each?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I personally think Rhonas is better, as you can hit it off coco, so you can win with just druid combo + a coco, which happens sometimes. I have played hundreds of games now, and not ONCE were I not able to win with either Rhonas, or just going infinite with finks after drawing all my creatures and playing them. The cases where it doesnt work are so suuuuper fringe.
Rhonas wins through ensnaring bridge, and you can play around weird cards like deflecting palm if you actually play the deck a bit. (people bringing in deflecting palm against this deck are also wrong)
You allways get duskwatch recruiter and play all your things before going for the win, which eliminates like 99,99% of things that can go wrong.
If your meta is full of affinity, hatebears, mirror and elves, then I see the argument for ballista, but then I'd rather have Orzhov pontiff main instead. Ballista is such a horrible play for 2 or 4 mana against so many decks, it's just a dead card too often, and a miss off coco.
Avatar and Signature by XenoNinja via Heroes of the Plane Studios
Thanks for the replies guys!
Since it seems better to play Rhonas over Ballista (which was my initial intuition), how should I tweak my current list?
Do I remove the Ballista for a 4th E. Wit, or a 3rd Duskwatch Recruiter, or a second Seer? Or maybe something else entirely?
Here's my list: Abzan Company
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
One deck that runs RAMPANT in my meta is the bane of my existence--- jeskai control/jeskai queller/geist decks. I feel pretty powerless against them. Do nay of you have suggestions both on playing against them or in my deck construction? I've contemplated cards like voice to fight against them, but overall it feels terrible.
Any suggestions are welcome!
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
How do you all feel about using the Ponza package of Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl? The main advantage I see for this would be the possibility for Turn 2 Company while still retaining the mana for later (the sequence is turn 1 Arbor Elf into turn 2 Utopia Spawl for 4 mana off 1 Forest). Plus, the last thing I want to hit off CoCo is a mana dork, so the disadvantages are fairly minor.
Avatar and Signature by XenoNinja via Heroes of the Plane Studios
I have found you are going to have to play it as a midrange matchup vs UWR because they have so much removal flying around. You're not really going to get to combo off so try and run their resources dry with Finks while avoiding getting blown out by a Supreme Verdict. The midrange and Geist version run a bit less removal so you can usually squeak the combo off somewhere in there. Force them to play interaction on their turn with Company/Chord then when they're tapped out you can combo off. Basically get 2 pieces in your hand and bait them.
It makes the deck worse. Gavony Township is the backup plan and you can't put +1/+1 counters on Utopia Sprawl. And what would you rather? Hitting a manadork off of Company or nothing at all?? There should be no argument to playing those cards in the deck over the traditional 6-7 manadorks. We only need 1 manadork to be good where with those cards you have to play all 8 and need both to truly be great.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
First, it seems as though we're looking to bolster two different strategies within Vizier Combo; I'd like to increase my early kills by some unknown percentage whereas you and others would like to stabilize the late game via Gavony. I can understand both arguments.
Second, Utopia Sprawl is actually good by itself (I'd go so far as to say its better outside of not being to attack) as you can tap whatever land you enchant with it right away.
Ultimately, it is something I'm just interested in testing, and if it doesn't pan out, oh well: lesson learned.
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UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
With the devoted druid combo, IMHO, 4 eternal witnesses is mandatory. The percentage of the time a witness off the top is a 3rd combo piece with infinite mana is extremely high.
Sideboard some number (Up to 3) them out when they're bad, which is pretty much exclusively against burn, tron and storm. You always want one so you can chord for witness for a missing combo piece you've already cast.
If your meta is heavily tron/burn/storm, the best answer most likely is to sideboard some hate, and possibly make your main deck flex slots 1 sin collector and 1 spellskite instead selfless spirit/pontiff type cards.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I suppose it doesn't matter though. I'm not here to prove you wrong; I'm here to share my experiences with this community and learn how to be a better player and deckbuilder. And since I am not receiving any constructive argument against my position, I'll simply refrain from detracting from any constructive conversation.
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Trinket Mage offers a bevy of support after board as well. Thing's like Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Scrabbling Claws, Grafdigger's Cage, or even a Brittle Effigy. My personal favorite is Basilisk Collar. It's a silver bullet against creature decks and provides a cushion against burn.
The upside this package contains is that the combo no longer features a graveyard requirement. This makes your opp sideboard grave hate dead cards if they think you're running the original combo.
The downside is losing some sweet,sweet, infinite life gain and some classic utility creatures like Tidehollow Sculler but there is still a silver lining. Meddling Mage is now an option along with Spell Queller, Vendilion Clique, and Kira,Great Glass-Spinner. The mana base plus vial provide plenty of fixing.
I forgot to mention a few other insane tutor targets for Trinket Mage: Engineered Explosives, Chimeric Mass, and Aether Spellbomb.