+1. Kessig Wolf Run is not chordable or collectable, which makes it worse than Viscera Seer or Rhonas the Indomittable.
I mean, yes a different splash is interesting, but it's way too early to claim that Abzan is the wrong combination of colors.
Kessig wolf run is a free-ish slot. Also tutorable with knight of the reliquary if you so desire.
match 1 vs. RUGb bring to light-
I don't think i was winning this match but I surely flubbed it. Game 1 I had a pretty good start, attacked with a duskwatch recruiter when I needed him to chord for 2 to set up the combo. I blew my chance to win game 1, as he tapped out and I had a second chord.
Game 2 I mulled to 5 and got mauled, nothing doing. Meddling mages did jack squat because I could not develop a board due to bad mull.
Match 2 vs. GW Tron
Game 1 I killed him with natural mirror entity on turn 5, despite him being able to stuff the combo kill with secure the wastes, then remove my druid.
Game 2 I killed turn 4 on the draw with the combo - he tapped out, I coco'd, untapped and killed with entity.
2-0 vs. Tron? I'll take it. It felt like I drew really well but this combo is significantly faster and can kill in a lot of weird angles.
Match 3 vs. Skred
Game 1 - I had the combo kill on turn 4 but needed to hit something with a coco to win. Whiffed, got angered, gg.
Game 2 - I mulled to 6 and drew all 4 spell quellers with no third land. 2 land 2 queller 1 coco 1 chord feels like a winner at 6, but needed the third land drop. Had I hit it on time I would have done alright.
Not surprising there, really, as infinite lightning bolts is not what we want to see.
Overall feelings: I didn't play enough to know for sure, but I found myself siding out Reflector mages constantly and quellers were bad. Pretty sure Bant is a bust with this build--felt just generally worse than GW woulda been.
I did really like watching my opponents see company, assume grave hate comes in, and just walking all over dead relics.
Going to try wolf run next week, though not sure on the build. Will likely try a slayers' stronghold instead of the 4th wolf run, since the haste enabling is somewhat relevant.
Mirror Entity is definitely stronger than Rhonas against big mana decks.
I did not run into any issues with making mana on combo turns, which I had considered as a potential issue with entity.
Interesting feedback about Entity.
I'm with you about KotR, it seems like a necessary evil to search for the land. Knight doesn't get you the land right away though, which worries me a lot. With Recruiter (or Chord for 2 of the following targets), you can search for Entity / Rhonas / Ballista and kill within the same turn. It pulls KotR back to a worse position on the podium.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Interesting feedback about Entity.
I'm with you about KotR, it seems like a necessary evil to search for the land. Knight doesn't get you the land right away though, which worries me a lot. With Recruiter (or Chord for 2 of the following targets), you can search for Entity / Rhonas / Ballista and kill within the same turn. It pulls KotR back to a worse position on the podium.
The thing with wolf run is there is nothing stopping you from playing recruiter + entity as well. Just replacing your townships with another combo outlet that's also pretty good at turning your birds into fireballs (better in an attrition heavy meta than township).
With wolf runs you have another turn 3 kill of dork -> druid -> vizier + wolf run activation (lands R, X, Wolf run), with no hand requirements.
KOTR isn't necessary I don't think but it's an option; I am going to try value heavy 3-drop slot first and see how that goes.
THis deck took 13th place in MagicCardMarket's Modern tournament with over 600 players. Seems like a decent list.
I would probably skip the Tireless Tracker and the Spellskite mainboard and bring 2 x Renegade Rallier, but that's just me.
Jonas Bachstädter – Vizier & Company – 13th
Main Deck:
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Temple Garden
3 Gavony Township
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Razorverge Thicket
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Devoted Druid
2 Duskwatch Recruiter / Krallenhorde Howler
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Viscera Seer
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker Sideboard:
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Stony Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
THis deck took 13th place in MagicCardMarket's Modern tournament with over 600 players. Seems like a decent list.
I would probably skip the Tireless Tracker and the Spellskite mainboard and bring 2 x Renegade Rallier, but that's just me.
Jonas Bachstädter – Vizier & Company – 13th
Main Deck:
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Temple Garden
3 Gavony Township
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Razorverge Thicket
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Devoted Druid
2 Duskwatch Recruiter / Krallenhorde Howler
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Viscera Seer
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker Sideboard:
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Stony Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
The WW is not a problem in the combo turn. After infinite mana, i get most of the green guys in the board. Then let CoCo on top with viscera seer * Anafenza, break a clue, get coco, cast coco, have an infinite army.
So you just do a lot more work for what I feel is no reason.
The WW is not a problem in the combo turn. After infinite mana, i get most of the green guys in the board. Then let CoCo on top with viscera seer * Anafenza, break a clue, get coco, cast coco, have an infinite army.
So you just do a lot more work for what I feel is no reason.
No reason besides having a better maindeck? Not needing a rhonas or a ballista in the main allows me to run a better card in the main. Both rhonas and ballista do some things, but are worst than something like another witness, rallier or whatever on a fair game. I'd still run 1 ballista in the SB, but no need to spend a maindeck slot
I wouldn't say there is any proof that it's a better maindeck. There is something to be said about deck diversity.
I see that several people are still running Anafenza for the bolster triggers. But, for those that aren't and rely on Vizier of remedies for both combos, how do you deal with surgical extraction or lost legacy? Do you just go down the alternative beat down route? Or, are you hoping to play enough tidehollow sculler to avoid it happening in the first place?
I tested the following list against Skred and 8-rack yesterday and didn't lose a game, which felt pretty good. Obviously want to test against higher tier decks.
if you dont have anafenza in your deck and they surgical your vizier, you can't combo anymore and is pretty much screwed.
This was kind of the point that I was getting at. Therefore, is it better to run a single Anafenza main or have a single Anafenza in sideboard. My feeling would be to run a single in the main to keep the sideboard as it is. And cut what? -1 viscera seer or -1 duskwatch recruiter....
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The WW is not a problem in the combo turn. After infinite mana, i get most of the green guys in the board. Then let CoCo on top with viscera seer * Anafenza, break a clue, get coco, cast coco, have an infinite army.
So you just do a lot more work for what I feel is no reason.
No reason besides having a better maindeck? Not needing a rhonas or a ballista in the main allows me to run a better card in the main. Both rhonas and ballista do some things, but are worst than something like another witness, rallier or whatever on a fair game. I'd still run 1 ballista in the SB, but no need to spend a maindeck slot
I think having an instant win with 1 card in 59 is a better maindeck than relying on your next turn. If there is a chance to win on the spot, why not take it? What is the one creature that is better than Balista? Your 4th Eternal Witness? Renegade Rallier? I don't think there is anything better than "I win". Sure you can't hit it with CoCo or Chord, but you want those spells to get the combo which will then get the Balista.
I think not running 1 card in the 60 that can win you the game once you have the combo is bad. This is as well the reason why the "old" lists play Murderous Redcap. To have something to win the game with. And Balista makes you win the game on the first combo.
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
Personally, I think everyone is trying to get too cute with Walking Balista. I'm not totally against the idea, but I feel most people are overthinking it.
If you have access to one or two black mana (One for Viscera Seer and Zulaport Cutthroat), I think Zulaport Cutthroat can be equally effective for an instant win.
If you have Duskwatch Recruiter and infinite mana, grab every single creature in your library. Play every single creature with Zulaport Cutthroat being the last creature to come into play. Sacrifice everything. Your opponent is dead.
A person doesn't actually need black mana if a Chord of Calling is in the graveyard if running Eternal Witness. Play Eternal Witness. Grab Chord of Calling. Grab Zulaport Cutthroat. If you need Viscera Seer, just play the other Eternal Witness and grab the Chord again.
If Chord of Calling isn't available for some reason, but you have a Collected Company there is an alternative. First, grab every creature except Viscera Seer and Zulaport Cutthroat with the infinite mana and Duskwatch Recruiter. With the deck sufficiently thinned (and after casting all your other green creatures minus the Eternal Witnesses), cast Collected Company. A player should be able to find the combo pieces needed to kill you opponent on the spot.
Ok, many games tested today, also against grindy matchups like jund and jeskai control and similar. Also the mirror, which is really stupid game 1..
Anyway, imo ballista is not needed. I have 1 duskwatch recruiter and 1 Rhonas. Rhonas is actually a great creature in the grindy matchups. Jund had a really hard time beating him, and he's good enough to win 99,6% of the time from just pumping something infinite times.
The reason I have duskwatch as well is 2 fold. It gives us another win com if Rhonas gets pathed.. But most important, it lets us combo at instant speed, like in an opponents endstep or when they are tapped out. Pulling 10+ creatures and stacking our deck should be enough to win often. You don't want to coco mainphase in the counterspell matchups, so this is actually very useful.
To Meyou: zulaport/blood artist are really bad creatures. They are complete duds when you play anything with removal and some grind. Redcap is not needed either for the same reason. Infinite bolster triggers off anafenza is enough, and actually a hit from coco.
IMO we shouldn't play bad creatures that are only usefull when you have the combo. Play things that can at least attack, are good coco/chord hits. You very often need to play a game without ever comboing, and your deck needs to do a proper job with beatdown and card advantage. If you actually manage to combo, winning is often trivial, you don't need cute specialized pieces to win with.
I've had some small discussions with my friend playing the deck, if a 3/1 or 2/2 rallier/witness split is correct. It can be argued both ways.
This list has a positive control matchup for me so far. Against low removal decks, it just wrecks them, I have won many games turn 3. The challenge comes when they actually disrupt you. I don't want "win more" cards, I want a stronger overall deck.
Personally, I think everyone is trying to get too cute with Walking Balista. I'm not totally against the idea, but I feel most people are overthinking it.
If you have access to one or two black mana (One for Viscera Seer and Zulaport Cutthroat), I think Zulaport Cutthroat can be equally effective for an instant win.
If you have Duskwatch Recruiter and infinite mana, grab every single creature in your library. Play every single creature with Zulaport Cutthroat being the last creature to come into play. Sacrifice everything. Your opponent is dead.
A person doesn't actually need black mana if a Chord of Calling is in the graveyard if running Eternal Witness. Play Eternal Witness. Grab Chord of Calling. Grab Zulaport Cutthroat. If you need Viscera Seer, just play the other Eternal Witness and grab the Chord again.
If Chord of Calling isn't available for some reason, but you have a Collected Company there is an alternative. First, grab every creature except Viscera Seer and Zulaport Cutthroat with the infinite mana and Duskwatch Recruiter. With the deck sufficiently thinned (and after casting all your other green creatures minus the Eternal Witnesses), cast Collected Company. A player should be able to find the combo pieces needed to kill you opponent on the spot.
The only benefits I see: you can hit the Zulaport of Collected Company and Chord of Calling. But in my testings on Xmage you want to hit your "infinite bolster combo" off of these two or get the Duskwatch Recruiter to naturally draw Walking Balista, play her and just win on the spot. Relying on only one combo was too greedy and it was the reason why the old lists played a one-off Thune-Feeder combo.
I think playing 1 Walking Balista in your 60 maindeck will not make your deck worse. Arguments like "it weakens your maindeck" are not true because it just gives you a faster clock vs. some decks and is only dead vs. Stony Silence. (it is dead vs. Linvala, Keeper of Silence as well, but this cards kills every of our combos). I am an elves player and game 1 we always want to be as fast as possible. For this reason most of us just do not play any one-off hate creatures like Spellskite in our main. I think this is the way to go with Abzan Company. Have the fastes possible wins and cutting one-offs like Scavenging Ooze and Orzhoff Pontiff from the main and just bring them in game 2 and 3.
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
Ballista is not good against death's shadow. It doesn't kill anything of theirs, dies to push and pinging for 2 or whatever might even help them.
Breakdown of Ballista vs Rhonas:
Ballista:
Pros: Good against affinity, elves, Mirror, infect, sometimes merfolk. (decks with small creatures).
Can win without an attack step, wins through fringe cards like worship, Phyrexian unlife, 3 and 5 mana gideon. Cons: Is a miss with coco and chord. (if you have combo turn 3 and just coco as payoff for infinite mana for example.
It's bad against control, death's shadow, eldrazitron, tron, valakut decks, jund/grixis etc (except against decks playing bob). It's often just a 2 mana mogg fanatic.
Rhonas:
Pros: Good against death's shadow, control, jund/abzan/grixis. Basicly any slow deck without path. I've chorded for it when it was the only creature that could save me against a board of like ooze + double goyf or similar. It also provides a very quick clock, just +2 power on a random 2 drop and go to town. It's also a good coco/chord hit.
Cons: It's worse against fast decks, like affinity, burn, elves, etc and some decks with path. It needs combat to win with infinite mana.
Conclusion:
I can see the argument for ballista. But I think the minor upsides of not requiring combat isn't worth the added utility when not having infinite mana. There are some fringe cases where ballista wins with infinite mana, but Rhonas doesnt. But there might also be times where you have infinite mana, and you hit Rhonas with coco and win, where ballista would miss.
After tests, I found to be chording for Rhonas quite often against decks like death's shadow, jund, grixis, and decks with no way of removing him, as he's quite a pain for them to deal with. It also makes you less vulnerable to anger and damnation while pressuring them hard.
Both death's shadow and jund etc can have boardstates where they simply have bigger creatures than you, and you can't attack or block profitably. Rhonas mitigates that with deathtouch and indestructible, while making your other threats able to attack through theirs.
Ensnaring bridge is not an nissue by the way, you just pump after attacking. The bridge, it does nothing.
Bonus: Duskwatch Recruiter:
So, is duskwatch needed or can we shave to 1 win condition?
The way the deck often plays is that you don't want to coco in your mainphase every time. They might have mana open and you suspect counterspells or removal. Maybe you "accidently" combo in your own endstep while they do something EOT?
Duskwatch recruiter is great in those cases, since he gives you an outlet for infinite mana at instant speed!
If you draw 10 good creatures and set up a perfect coco or 2 you will probably just win without infinite damage. This instant speed combo is actually very powerful to have access to.
MKM Series Frankfurt 2017 with Vizier Company and 674 Players
Jonas Bachstädter – Vizier Company – 13th
Main Deck:
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Temple Garden
3 Gavony Township
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Razorverge Thicket
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Devoted Druid
2 Duskwatch Recruiter / Krallenhorde Howler
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Viscera Seer
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
Sideboard:
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Stony Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Round 1 vs U/R Giftsstorm
I win the dice roll and play Devoted Druid Turn 2 - he tapps out for 2 cantrips and i play chord for Vizier with witness in my hand -> kill turn 3 otp.
Game 2 he cant find an answer to Eidolon of Rethoric in time.
1-0
Round 2 vs Deathshadow
Game 1 he plays double Discard and takes my chord and Kitchen Finks. Turn 4 when he tapps out i play company and win on my turn.
Game 2 was grindy but Witness to buy back removal and Kitchen Finks are enough value to win.
2-0
Round 3 vs Boggles
Game 1 i had Druid + Chord + Company in hand. I go for Vizier with Chord and search for the kill with my company. Mistake here - i could not find any good card with the company and was stucked with inf. green mana on the board and i die.
Game 2 and 3 were how they supposed to be. A great MU overall because they are too slow and have less disrution.
3-0
Round 4 vs Skred Red
Very Hard Matchup. I lose Game 1 to Koth Emblem and Anger of the Gods.
Game 2 and 3 i could win with good sideboard cards like decay, burrenton Forge-Tender and mighty Gideon.
4-0
Round 5 vs Tron (on coverage)
Videos might be online soon on youtube for those who couldnt follow the stream last weekend.
The Matchup is general is a bit better now since we can combo faster and more consistent. Without disrution a turn 3 kill not as rare as you might think of it.
I win the dice roll and kill him Turn 3 on the play.
Game 2 he has a good start and i die to Ugin.
Game 3 i am fast enough again.
5-0
Round 6 vs Bant Eldrazi
Game 1 and 2 i can go in the oldschool combo with inf. life and he scoops both times (turn 3 and turn 4)
He took the wrong card with TKS i game 2 so a big mistake from him there.
6-0
Round 7 vs Black-Red (coverage again)
His Deck is full of Blood Moon, bolt, bob, discard and fatal push, but the value plan from kitchen Finks and Eternal Witness is better.
Game 2 was like game 1. i just had too much value for him and Gideon was great here.
7-0
Round 8 vs Bring To Light Scapesshift
Game 1 I lose to him. Its a bad matchup and he had disrution + counter + fast kill.
Game 2 I could kill him on the play turn 3.
Game 3 I missplayed something because of a lack of concentration (I misscounted on a chord for Eidolon of Rethoric) and i lost that game.
What a pitty cause with 8-0 i could have double draw into top 8.
7-1
Round 9 vs UW Hardcontrol
Close MU. I can win Game 1 with my value and the game took like 30-35 min.
Game 2 he had a fast finish with Elspeth Suns Champion and Colonade.
Game 3 i could play a Gideon after he tapped out for a supreme Verdict and could win in the extra Turns.
8-1
Round 10 vs Eldrazi Tron (on coverage again)
Well i thought i could draw into top 8 but my oppoents OPScore was not good enough so we decided to play.
Game 1 i keep a Hand with 3 Lands, Finks and Double Company but couldnt find a 4th land this game. A KNS from his side revealed 2 Chords 2 Companys 1 Finks 1 Witness and my lands were Township, swamp and temple garden.
Game 2 i had him lethal in 2 attacks and decided to attack. He blocked with Shaper and revealed an exp. Map with him and could crack it EoT for Ugin on his Turn.
Why no Rallier and 3 Witness?
Its simple for me: Witness is the more grindy card while Rallier gives you more tempo advantage. I was surprised how often i could kill people on turn 3 on the play. In matchups where is nearly impossible to combo them i prefer the grindy cards and Company into Witness is still the best value in our Deck.
Moreover witness into removal was great vs the deathshadow deck and i doubt that rallier would have won that game.
Rallier is better in more midrange Decks with Voice of Resurgence, but since i play the 'combo as fast as possible' version i prefer grind over tempo.
I really like your list with the changes, but as stated before I would cut the Scavenging Ooze from the main to add a Walking Balista. Spellskite is the only reasonable toolbox creature because it can protect the combo. I think being as fast as possible in executing the combo turn 1 is better than haveing the singleton graveyard hate Scooze provides
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
As to Fiend Hunter, every build IMHO has to have an answer to Harsh Mentor, at least until other decks bore of him. A lot of builds show no MB removal. Mentor limits DD, Ballista, Rhonas, Seer and Recruiter, ouch, even Qasali.
Burrenton Forge-Tender can get by all of this in the turn you combo and easy to hit early with Chord, good SB. It can also handle Eidolon the turn you want to cast all creatures.
Despite all the variants of DS, Jund still the best and most common deck will see, and Temur Battle Rage is scary. DSJ can disrupt and outrace us. Am keeping Spellskite.
So I actually think with the vizier combo it is possible for Tron to be at least an even-ish matchup. The new tron builds want to be advancing their board on our critical turn (3-4) not leaving up mana to disrupt the combo. GR tron with pyroclasm was much more threatening.
In the previous builds we needed to redcap to kill them but in the vizier build we have many more angles to combo kill on turn 3 or 4 which used to be much harder.
Kessig wolf run is a free-ish slot. Also tutorable with knight of the reliquary if you so desire.
So results from my bant testing tonight. List: https://deckbox.org/sets/1679691
match 1 vs. RUGb bring to light-
I don't think i was winning this match but I surely flubbed it. Game 1 I had a pretty good start, attacked with a duskwatch recruiter when I needed him to chord for 2 to set up the combo. I blew my chance to win game 1, as he tapped out and I had a second chord.
Game 2 I mulled to 5 and got mauled, nothing doing. Meddling mages did jack squat because I could not develop a board due to bad mull.
Match 2 vs. GW Tron
Game 1 I killed him with natural mirror entity on turn 5, despite him being able to stuff the combo kill with secure the wastes, then remove my druid.
Game 2 I killed turn 4 on the draw with the combo - he tapped out, I coco'd, untapped and killed with entity.
2-0 vs. Tron? I'll take it. It felt like I drew really well but this combo is significantly faster and can kill in a lot of weird angles.
Match 3 vs. Skred
Game 1 - I had the combo kill on turn 4 but needed to hit something with a coco to win. Whiffed, got angered, gg.
Game 2 - I mulled to 6 and drew all 4 spell quellers with no third land. 2 land 2 queller 1 coco 1 chord feels like a winner at 6, but needed the third land drop. Had I hit it on time I would have done alright.
Not surprising there, really, as infinite lightning bolts is not what we want to see.
Overall feelings: I didn't play enough to know for sure, but I found myself siding out Reflector mages constantly and quellers were bad. Pretty sure Bant is a bust with this build--felt just generally worse than GW woulda been.
I did really like watching my opponents see company, assume grave hate comes in, and just walking all over dead relics.
Going to try wolf run next week, though not sure on the build. Will likely try a slayers' stronghold instead of the 4th wolf run, since the haste enabling is somewhat relevant.
Mirror Entity is definitely stronger than Rhonas against big mana decks.
I did not run into any issues with making mana on combo turns, which I had considered as a potential issue with entity.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I'm with you about KotR, it seems like a necessary evil to search for the land. Knight doesn't get you the land right away though, which worries me a lot. With Recruiter (or Chord for 2 of the following targets), you can search for Entity / Rhonas / Ballista and kill within the same turn. It pulls KotR back to a worse position on the podium.
The thing with wolf run is there is nothing stopping you from playing recruiter + entity as well. Just replacing your townships with another combo outlet that's also pretty good at turning your birds into fireballs (better in an attrition heavy meta than township).
With wolf runs you have another turn 3 kill of dork -> druid -> vizier + wolf run activation (lands R, X, Wolf run), with no hand requirements.
KOTR isn't necessary I don't think but it's an option; I am going to try value heavy 3-drop slot first and see how that goes.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I would probably skip the Tireless Tracker and the Spellskite mainboard and bring 2 x Renegade Rallier, but that's just me.
Jonas Bachstädter – Vizier & Company – 13th
Main Deck:
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Temple Garden
3 Gavony Township
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Razorverge Thicket
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Devoted Druid
2 Duskwatch Recruiter / Krallenhorde Howler
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Viscera Seer
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
Sideboard:
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Stony Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Marcel Bux – Abzan Company – 14th
Main Deck:
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Viscera Seer
2 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Spike Feeder
1 Archangel of Thune
2 Renegade Rallier
2 Eternal Witness
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Wall of Roots
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Voice of Resurgence
Sideboard:
2 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Selfless Spirit
2 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Stony Silence
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Intrepid Hero
The list is wrong, instead of Anafenza, the Foremost he was playing Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit.
Like stated in his deck-check article here he is not using Walking Balista or Rhonas the Indomitable to win. He is just drawing into his "old" combo pieces with infinite bolster and infinite life (Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit and Vizera Seer and Kitchen Finks).
Looking at his list I would probably play something like this:
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Temple Garden
3 Gavony Township
2 Horizon Canopy
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Razorverge Thicket
//Non Creature
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
4 Devoted Druid
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Viscera Seer
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Balista
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
//Non Combo
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Spellskite
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Stony Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
I'am not sure on the Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit since WW is hard to get with infinite green and I want to win on the spot. This slot could be a Duskwatch Recruiter, Renegade Rallier, Eternal Witness, Tireless Tracker, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn or Rhonas the Indomitable
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
So you just do a lot more work for what I feel is no reason.
I wouldn't say there is any proof that it's a better maindeck. There is something to be said about deck diversity.
I tested the following list against Skred and 8-rack yesterday and didn't lose a game, which felt pretty good. Obviously want to test against higher tier decks.
4 birds of paradise
4 devoted Druid
2 walls of roots
2 voice of resurgence
4 vizier of remedies
2 duskwatch recruiter
1 walking ballista
1 rhonas the indomitable
1 scavenging ooze
2 viscera seer
1 Qasali pridemage
3 kitchen finks
2 eternal witness
2 renegade rallier
4 collected company
4 chord of calling
Land
4 windswept Heath
3 marsh flats
2 flooded strand
2 Gavony township
1 Razorverge thicket
3 temple garden
1 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 swamp
1 plains
2 forest
4 Tidehollow sculler
2 path to exile
1 maelstrom pulse
1 Qasali pridemage
1 mirror entity
1 zulaport cutthroat
1 Aven mindcensor
1 phyrexian revoker
1 selfless spirit
1 orzhov pontiff
1 ethersworn canonist
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
-Rg valakut
-U/W control
-U/R storm
-G/W value town
Legacy :
-Storm
This was kind of the point that I was getting at. Therefore, is it better to run a single Anafenza main or have a single Anafenza in sideboard. My feeling would be to run a single in the main to keep the sideboard as it is. And cut what? -1 viscera seer or -1 duskwatch recruiter....
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
I think having an instant win with 1 card in 59 is a better maindeck than relying on your next turn. If there is a chance to win on the spot, why not take it? What is the one creature that is better than Balista? Your 4th Eternal Witness? Renegade Rallier? I don't think there is anything better than "I win". Sure you can't hit it with CoCo or Chord, but you want those spells to get the combo which will then get the Balista.
I think not running 1 card in the 60 that can win you the game once you have the combo is bad. This is as well the reason why the "old" lists play Murderous Redcap. To have something to win the game with. And Balista makes you win the game on the first combo.
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
If you have access to one or two black mana (One for Viscera Seer and Zulaport Cutthroat), I think Zulaport Cutthroat can be equally effective for an instant win.
If you have Duskwatch Recruiter and infinite mana, grab every single creature in your library. Play every single creature with Zulaport Cutthroat being the last creature to come into play. Sacrifice everything. Your opponent is dead.
Zulaport Cutthroat can still kill your opponent even through most graveyard hate (exceptions being Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void). It still works with Collected Company and Chord of Calling.
A person doesn't actually need black mana if a Chord of Calling is in the graveyard if running Eternal Witness. Play Eternal Witness. Grab Chord of Calling. Grab Zulaport Cutthroat. If you need Viscera Seer, just play the other Eternal Witness and grab the Chord again.
If Chord of Calling isn't available for some reason, but you have a Collected Company there is an alternative. First, grab every creature except Viscera Seer and Zulaport Cutthroat with the infinite mana and Duskwatch Recruiter. With the deck sufficiently thinned (and after casting all your other green creatures minus the Eternal Witnesses), cast Collected Company. A player should be able to find the combo pieces needed to kill you opponent on the spot.
Just saying.
Anyway, imo ballista is not needed. I have 1 duskwatch recruiter and 1 Rhonas. Rhonas is actually a great creature in the grindy matchups. Jund had a really hard time beating him, and he's good enough to win 99,6% of the time from just pumping something infinite times.
The reason I have duskwatch as well is 2 fold. It gives us another win com if Rhonas gets pathed.. But most important, it lets us combo at instant speed, like in an opponents endstep or when they are tapped out. Pulling 10+ creatures and stacking our deck should be enough to win often. You don't want to coco mainphase in the counterspell matchups, so this is actually very useful.
To Meyou: zulaport/blood artist are really bad creatures. They are complete duds when you play anything with removal and some grind. Redcap is not needed either for the same reason. Infinite bolster triggers off anafenza is enough, and actually a hit from coco.
IMO we shouldn't play bad creatures that are only usefull when you have the combo. Play things that can at least attack, are good coco/chord hits. You very often need to play a game without ever comboing, and your deck needs to do a proper job with beatdown and card advantage. If you actually manage to combo, winning is often trivial, you don't need cute specialized pieces to win with.
I will post my list again, which I've been very happy with.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/abzan-company-devoted-rallier-20/
I've had some small discussions with my friend playing the deck, if a 3/1 or 2/2 rallier/witness split is correct. It can be argued both ways.
This list has a positive control matchup for me so far. Against low removal decks, it just wrecks them, I have won many games turn 3. The challenge comes when they actually disrupt you. I don't want "win more" cards, I want a stronger overall deck.
So where do you see the benefits from Zulaport Cutthroat? It gets ineffective vs. Rest in Peace, Leyline of the Void, Surgical Extraction on Kitchenfinks, not having 2 black mana if you combo (especially on turn 3 when you played Devoted Druid turn 2 and Vizier of Remedies on turn 3).
The only benefits I see: you can hit the Zulaport of Collected Company and Chord of Calling. But in my testings on Xmage you want to hit your "infinite bolster combo" off of these two or get the Duskwatch Recruiter to naturally draw Walking Balista, play her and just win on the spot. Relying on only one combo was too greedy and it was the reason why the old lists played a one-off Thune-Feeder combo.
I think playing 1 Walking Balista in your 60 maindeck will not make your deck worse. Arguments like "it weakens your maindeck" are not true because it just gives you a faster clock vs. some decks and is only dead vs. Stony Silence. (it is dead vs. Linvala, Keeper of Silence as well, but this cards kills every of our combos). I am an elves player and game 1 we always want to be as fast as possible. For this reason most of us just do not play any one-off hate creatures like Spellskite in our main. I think this is the way to go with Abzan Company. Have the fastes possible wins and cutting one-offs like Scavenging Ooze and Orzhoff Pontiff from the main and just bring them in game 2 and 3.
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
Breakdown of Ballista vs Rhonas:
Ballista:
Pros: Good against affinity, elves, Mirror, infect, sometimes merfolk. (decks with small creatures).
Can win without an attack step, wins through fringe cards like worship, Phyrexian unlife, 3 and 5 mana gideon.
Cons: Is a miss with coco and chord. (if you have combo turn 3 and just coco as payoff for infinite mana for example.
It's bad against control, death's shadow, eldrazitron, tron, valakut decks, jund/grixis etc (except against decks playing bob). It's often just a 2 mana mogg fanatic.
Rhonas:
Pros: Good against death's shadow, control, jund/abzan/grixis. Basicly any slow deck without path. I've chorded for it when it was the only creature that could save me against a board of like ooze + double goyf or similar. It also provides a very quick clock, just +2 power on a random 2 drop and go to town. It's also a good coco/chord hit.
Cons: It's worse against fast decks, like affinity, burn, elves, etc and some decks with path. It needs combat to win with infinite mana.
Conclusion:
I can see the argument for ballista. But I think the minor upsides of not requiring combat isn't worth the added utility when not having infinite mana. There are some fringe cases where ballista wins with infinite mana, but Rhonas doesnt. But there might also be times where you have infinite mana, and you hit Rhonas with coco and win, where ballista would miss.
After tests, I found to be chording for Rhonas quite often against decks like death's shadow, jund, grixis, and decks with no way of removing him, as he's quite a pain for them to deal with. It also makes you less vulnerable to anger and damnation while pressuring them hard.
Both death's shadow and jund etc can have boardstates where they simply have bigger creatures than you, and you can't attack or block profitably. Rhonas mitigates that with deathtouch and indestructible, while making your other threats able to attack through theirs.
Ensnaring bridge is not an nissue by the way, you just pump after attacking. The bridge, it does nothing.
Bonus: Duskwatch Recruiter:
So, is duskwatch needed or can we shave to 1 win condition?
The way the deck often plays is that you don't want to coco in your mainphase every time. They might have mana open and you suspect counterspells or removal. Maybe you "accidently" combo in your own endstep while they do something EOT?
Duskwatch recruiter is great in those cases, since he gives you an outlet for infinite mana at instant speed!
If you draw 10 good creatures and set up a perfect coco or 2 you will probably just win without infinite damage. This instant speed combo is actually very powerful to have access to.
I really like your list with the changes, but as stated before I would cut the Scavenging Ooze from the main to add a Walking Balista. Spellskite is the only reasonable toolbox creature because it can protect the combo. I think being as fast as possible in executing the combo turn 1 is better than haveing the singleton graveyard hate Scooze provides
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
Burrenton Forge-Tender can get by all of this in the turn you combo and easy to hit early with Chord, good SB. It can also handle Eidolon the turn you want to cast all creatures.
Despite all the variants of DS, Jund still the best and most common deck will see, and Temur Battle Rage is scary. DSJ can disrupt and outrace us. Am keeping Spellskite.
In the previous builds we needed to redcap to kill them but in the vizier build we have many more angles to combo kill on turn 3 or 4 which used to be much harder.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall