Has anyone tried Congregation at Dawn in the deck list? Seems like it would be good. It will allow you to get kitchen finks against aggro and even spellskite against splinter twin. I also feel that path needs to be in the main. Path is probably the best card in modern atm.
Thanks for the input. My Decklist runs Path in the main, and the addition of CaD is discussed in the OP and features in the "other deck lists" section.
Oops, I'm thinking of replacing the Ascendants for more dorks to improve the chances of having mana open for Chord.
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The combo is secondary to the value plan. Collected Company and Chord of Calling allow me to play some toolbox creatures but also allow me to threaten the combo. It's a work in progress but so far I've been happy with how the games play out.
Funny, I have been thinking of a pod list ever since I saw the spoilers and came up with a list that closely assembles yours:
A few noticable changes: with the number of non interactive decks now in modern, I think that a combo heavy list works better game 1. I have been testing a similiar list for Pro Tour Fate Reforged and in testing found that most matches are won by comboing out. The reason I didn't play it there was because of junk and their massive disruption. However I think CC might be enough to overcome that.
I started with an even more heavier focus on the combo then I have now (6 pieces at least of each combo part) but found that 5 is the number I like the most. With 6 or 7 you often get into situations where you have 3 sac outlets for instance, while 5 still allows for consistancy.
Also I saw people here playing up to 3! Gavony Townships while still playing chord en Anafenza. I think this is way too much and I removed township entirely. Since we are playing fewer lands and are more color intensive then the old Pod I don't think township is worth it anymore. Don't get me wrong it's still a good land but having a hand with Overgrown Tomb, Township and Anafenza is really bad. Playing 8 nonwhite and 14 white sources just isn't enough if we want to cast Anafenza reliably. Also my list is playing 11 non-green creatures so getting the triple G for chord sometimes is tricky as well.
Lastly I want to discuss the number of dorks with you guys since I honestly believe we should be playing at least 5+ dorks (give back DRS!). This deck has to reliable cast a T1 dork in a lot of matches to match the current speed of the format. And is often to slow on the draw without it.
It looks like the only ways your lists can deal with opposing Scavenging Ooze pre-board are 2-3 Abrupt Decay. From my testing of the list I'll mention below, I found that 2 Decays weren't enough ways to boot Ooze in time in Game 1, so I'm currently testing 1 Garza's Assassin. It could be 1 Fiend Hunter. All it needs to do is boot Ooze, not look silly against Twin/Affinity/etc. (i.e. not Big Game Hunter), and be able to be flipped with Collected Company. (I'm not as big a fan of Phyrexian Revoker, as it's too easy to kill and it's mostly dead against UWR, Infect, Zoo, Abzan Liege, Merfolk (we die to their evasive men, not their Vial), some Burn, and more.)
I also goldfished a similar list to yours on Cockatrice (6 of each combo piece, 1 more Hierarch, no Bob/Voice/E. Wit., 2 Township), and while initially encouraging, it actually comboed off somewhat inconsistently when I was going for speed. Here's the result of 20 straight goldfishes:
It was pretty hard for me to see Chord and Collected Company together, so I don't think Congregation at Dawn is good in Melira Combo. C@D will be a semi-Chord too often.
These were the results of 20 straight goldfishes of a deck similar to this list by Deavran88 on Page 1 that purports relatively consistent Turn 4 combos (only mana base, sac outlet distribution, -1 Redcap +1 Hierarch, and -2 Apostle's Blessing +1 Spellskite +1 Collected Company were adjusted):
Being a half turn faster with the combo sounds OK (even if it's a half turn slower than most combo decks). The self-inflicted life loss is pretty staggering, though.
As a comparison, here are the results of 20 goldfishes with my "Melira" Combo list in the OP of my Collected Company Abuse thread, assuming that all Goyfs are 2/3's forever:
Turn 6 beatdown kill
Turn 5 beatdown kill
Turn 5 beatdown kill
Turn 5 beatdown kill
Turn 5 beatdown kill
Turn 6 beatdown kill
Turn 5 beatdown kill
Turn 6 beatdown kill
Turn 5 beatdown kill
Turn 5 beatdown kill
Turn 4 combo (Seer/Anafenza/Finks)
Turn 5 beatdown kill
Turn 6 beatdown kill
Turn 5 beatdown kill
Turn 6 beatdown kill
Turn 7 beatdown kill
Turn 5 beatdown kill
Turn 5 beatdown kill
Turn 5 beatdown kill
Turn 6 beatdown kill
Preliminary average combo/kill turn: 5.35
Yikes, my list with only 2 sac outlets, 2 Anafenzas, 2 Meliras, and 5 Persist dudes has only a slightly slower average kill turn than your list, even when I assume that all Goyfs are 2/3's forever (which is an underestimate). And, surprisingly for me, 19 out of 20 test kills were by beatdown.
Perhaps a fairly-all-in-on-the-combo strategy is not such a good one after all, if the combo isn't even half a turn faster when it's somewhat more all-in (as opposed to the second list's pretty-much-all-in).
Wow, thanks for all the insights! Your numbers seem to match what I've experienced as well. It's a work in progress still, but I think we are on the right track... If we can get the combo down to an average around 4 I think that will be competitive... It would be in my meta at least.
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Thanks for the testing Lectrys.
Glad to see that you got similar speed results to my testing.
As for the life loss, we shouldn't really care about that since we can have infinite life as early as turn three...
Or infinite damage - thus ending the game.
It's nice to see that your list doesn't actually slow down too much. Means there's room for a viable midrange build that threatens the combo as well. Sort of like the midrange twin deck.
Bro's. I've been playing this list for close to two weeks. It's more all in combo than some of the other decks I've seen in the forums and somewhat more condensed but it is the strongest version in my opinion as your redundancy gives you great game against abzan and against twin voice MB and path out the board are strong. Try my list, and you won't be disappointed.
I think you should at least have something to deal with scavenging ooze.
Can't I just Path to Exile or Abrupt Decay it? Forgive my ignorance, but I've never played against Ooze. (I've only been playing Modern a relatively short while.)
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Turns out I've been misreading Collected Company... I thought it just tutored the creatures (kind of like a double Summoner's Pact just for the top 6 cards of your library), but you actually put them on the battlefield. Pretty cool!
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I think you should at least have something to deal with scavenging ooze.
Can't I just Path to Exile or Abrupt Decay it? Forgive my ignorance, but I've never played against Ooze. (I've only been playing Modern a relatively short while.)
Of course.
I was just replying to Tinfoil hat's post.I should have quoted his post. Apologies if it was unclear.
I forgot my sideboard so I updated the post, then I realized Kataki is basically just straight up better than Creeping Corrosion, so I made that edit.
I don't really fear ScOoze game 1 because usually the opponent doesn't expect you to be able to win out of no where so easily, and as a fair deck the beatdown plan is actually solid. I sideboard path to make the Ooze less of an issue when they are likely to mulligan for one or have multiple copies.
Regarding seer, I only play it because when you combo with Elite or if infinite life isn't enough, it finds you redcap or blasting station. I've been over-impressed with seer.
Collect Call is cute but I'm sticking with That Anafenza Deck
Seems like a lot of singletons, but a solid list. I'll be curious to hear your results.
EDIT: Pulled off a turn 3 win goldfishing.
We did some pretty heavy testing tonight and this was the best list we were able to work out. Every single 1 of does great. Probably the best play of the night is in response to my Reveillark getting bolted I cast Collected Company getting Gazra's Assassin, still in response to bolt I sac him to kill a Tarmogoyf, Reveillark dies and I get back assassin + a scavenging ooze and I'm able to just take over the game from there.
Taking your cue, I've been testing something with a couple more singletons this morning. It lets me squeeze both Finks and Redcap into the main, so that's good. In testing with Reveillark, I never had enough in the graveyard to make her worth casting. Here's what I am currently testing:
I've been running this type of deck for a while, so I'm just going to leave some ideas here
Blood Artist is 100% a beast. Run 4 of these and 4 Viscera Seers, and you've got yourself a great alternate win-con. Seriously, I cannot stress how good this card is. They can easily cause 15+ point life swings over the course of a game
Thoughtseize. We are essentially an all-in combo deck. Thoughtseize protects our combo.
Also, I am perfectly ok with my list in the OP.
Did you notice the recent change in the auto card. All the basic lands are popping up as signed full arts. It's very nice.
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I'll have to check that out! I'll add your list asap.
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Oops, I'm thinking of replacing the Ascendants for more dorks to improve the chances of having mana open for Chord.
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It looks like the only ways your lists can deal with opposing Scavenging Ooze pre-board are 2-3 Abrupt Decay. From my testing of the list I'll mention below, I found that 2 Decays weren't enough ways to boot Ooze in time in Game 1, so I'm currently testing 1 Garza's Assassin. It could be 1 Fiend Hunter. All it needs to do is boot Ooze, not look silly against Twin/Affinity/etc. (i.e. not Big Game Hunter), and be able to be flipped with Collected Company. (I'm not as big a fan of Phyrexian Revoker, as it's too easy to kill and it's mostly dead against UWR, Infect, Zoo, Abzan Liege, Merfolk (we die to their evasive men, not their Vial), some Burn, and more.)
I also goldfished a similar list to yours on Cockatrice (6 of each combo piece, 1 more Hierarch, no Bob/Voice/E. Wit., 2 Township), and while initially encouraging, it actually comboed off somewhat inconsistently when I was going for speed. Here's the result of 20 straight goldfishes:
It was pretty hard for me to see Chord and Collected Company together, so I don't think Congregation at Dawn is good in Melira Combo. C@D will be a semi-Chord too often.
These were the results of 20 straight goldfishes of a deck similar to this list by Deavran88 on Page 1 that purports relatively consistent Turn 4 combos (only mana base, sac outlet distribution, -1 Redcap +1 Hierarch, and -2 Apostle's Blessing +1 Spellskite +1 Collected Company were adjusted):
Being a half turn faster with the combo sounds OK (even if it's a half turn slower than most combo decks). The self-inflicted life loss is pretty staggering, though.
As a comparison, here are the results of 20 goldfishes with my "Melira" Combo list in the OP of my Collected Company Abuse thread, assuming that all Goyfs are 2/3's forever:
Yikes, my list with only 2 sac outlets, 2 Anafenzas, 2 Meliras, and 5 Persist dudes has only a slightly slower average kill turn than your list, even when I assume that all Goyfs are 2/3's forever (which is an underestimate). And, surprisingly for me, 19 out of 20 test kills were by beatdown.
Perhaps a fairly-all-in-on-the-combo strategy is not such a good one after all, if the combo isn't even half a turn faster when it's somewhat more all-in (as opposed to the second list's pretty-much-all-in).
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Glad to see that you got similar speed results to my testing.
As for the life loss, we shouldn't really care about that since we can have infinite life as early as turn three...
Or infinite damage - thus ending the game.
It's nice to see that your list doesn't actually slow down too much. Means there's room for a viable midrange build that threatens the combo as well. Sort of like the midrange twin deck.
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4 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
3 Viscera Seer
2 Safehold Elite
4 Eternal Witness
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Birds of Paradise
1 Blood Artist
1 Murderous Redcap
Other spells:
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Blasting Station
4 Razorverge Thicket
3 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine
1 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
4 Path to Exile
4 Thoughtseize
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
3 Creeping Corrosion
3 Kor Firewalker
On a side note, can we call the deck "That Anafenza Deck"? It just sounds awesome lol, cuz its not pod, and Anafenza company or whatever sounds off...
(Edited: forgot sideboard)
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Can't I just Path to Exile or Abrupt Decay it? Forgive my ignorance, but I've never played against Ooze. (I've only been playing Modern a relatively short while.)
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EDIT: Pulled off a turn 3 win goldfishing.
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Of course.
I was just replying to Tinfoil hat's post.I should have quoted his post. Apologies if it was unclear.
I don't really fear ScOoze game 1 because usually the opponent doesn't expect you to be able to win out of no where so easily, and as a fair deck the beatdown plan is actually solid. I sideboard path to make the Ooze less of an issue when they are likely to mulligan for one or have multiple copies.
Regarding seer, I only play it because when you combo with Elite or if infinite life isn't enough, it finds you redcap or blasting station. I've been over-impressed with seer.
Collect Call is cute but I'm sticking with That Anafenza Deck
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Taking your cue, I've been testing something with a couple more singletons this morning. It lets me squeeze both Finks and Redcap into the main, so that's good. In testing with Reveillark, I never had enough in the graveyard to make her worth casting. Here's what I am currently testing:
1 Caves of Koilos
1 City of Brass
4 Forest
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Windswept Heath
CREATURES (26)
4 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Viscera Seer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Murderous Redcap
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
3 Path to Exile
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Murderous Redcap
3 Reclamation Sage
3 Stony Silence
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Blood Artist is 100% a beast. Run 4 of these and 4 Viscera Seers, and you've got yourself a great alternate win-con. Seriously, I cannot stress how good this card is. They can easily cause 15+ point life swings over the course of a game
Thoughtseize. We are essentially an all-in combo deck. Thoughtseize protects our combo.
Seige Rhino. Alternate win-con. Maybe Anafenza, the Foremost too, because getting beat down by Birds is great.
Time of Need. I've been running 1-2 for thinning, shuffling, finding combo, and occasionally just going beatdown with Anafenza, the Foremost.
Also, I haven't tested Collected Company as I'm working on a new deck, but EOT Congregation at Dawn, draw Viscera Seer, Collected Company for the combo seems sick.
If you run 4 Viscera Seers, Bloodsoaked Champion has been super great for digging (at least for me).
Well, that's really all I can think of right now. Tell me what you think!
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