I'd do a few things differently but that seems alright. Glad you're having success. I think we'll all find 6 dorks is likely incorrect but time will tell. This deck's chance of winning for free off a turn 3 coco (in a very splinter twin-esque mode) is much higher.
I'd do a few things differently but that seems alright. Glad you're having success. I think we'll all find 6 dorks is likely incorrect but time will tell. This deck's chance of winning for free off a turn 3 coco (in a very splinter twin-esque mode) is much higher.
I mean 8 1 mana dorks. I expect the full 12 will be needed because druid will rarely survive once people catch on.
The nice part is that your nobles and birds survive a lot more now. I have had one bird/noble die in the last 5 matches that wasn't a chump block.
Perfectly fine if Druid gets killed because we still have the combo we've always had in the deck (because this is about abzan obviously). Decks with spot removal get overrun and decks with sweepers have to use them early and at sorcery speed.
With such a stable manabase I like to play 1 gemstone caverns. The bonus happens rarely but then I can easily exile a land or dork. And the other times, it's just 1 land that gives colorless. I believe this improves a bit my win rate.
That seems worse than just playing the 4th Township. How many games do you start with it in play vs how many games do you draw it? If you draw it more than start with it then it should be a more useful land.
Speaking of lands, I got on the crazy thought of combining Pokken's ideas and the Abzan lists. If you were to play a Kessig Wolf Run or two maindeck what kind of support does it need? Well 1 Stomping Grounds obviously but beyond that I don't think it needs much. If you are naturally playing 1 Courser of Kruphix in the maindeck for the extra draw with Horizon Canopy during the combo turn you can then equally use it to play the Wolf Run. It would completely negate needing a wincon outside of Anafenza game 1 and give another angle of attack for games 2 and 3 only through changing up ~2-3 land slots in the deck. Too crazy to work?
I think the micro splash is potentially viable. One red source is likely fine. Additionally let's you run slaughter games which is a vicious sideboard card.
I will say that having an uncounterable way to enable infinite damage is very nice vs grave hate and exiling effects. A lot of times rhonas or duskwatch get countered or need to be committed to board and get exiled early.
But I wouldn't say it's for sure worth it. Definitely some risk.
[quote from="Lejoon »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/605889-abzan-company?comment=5345"]
I have not played against RG Titan Shift since the new combo but I think we're favored as long as the opponent doesn't anger us turn 3/4. We're also faster because of the new combo but maybe someone else can enlighten us regarding this matchup.
In my experience we are not favored. They have bolt for the first combo attempt and Anger usually shuts you down long enough for them to combo. Also, fetching is kind of painful with this deck and if you dip below 16 you can die at any moment.
Storm, living end and Ad Nauseam is a reason to have aethersworn cannonist in addition to Eidolon in the side. You can chord for 2 turn 3 off a druid, but you often can't chord for 3 fast enough to not lose, especially on the draw. Also, it's an additional coco hit and hate piece.
How is Eldrazi Tron a bad match up? Are you getting locked out by chalice? Combo being taken by thought knot? They run very few main board cards that kill creatures so that isn't an issue. Is walking ballista with its modes shutting down the combo? Or is it just a combination of all these things?
How is Eldrazi Tron a bad match up? Are you getting locked out by chalice? Combo being taken by thought knot? They run very few main board cards that kill creatures so that isn't an issue. Is walking ballista with its modes shutting down the combo? Or is it just a combination of all these things?
I played against Eldrazi Tron this weekend and in our first game, my opponent had chalice on 1 and on 2. Then thought-knot, followed by two walking ballista.... I didn't stand a chance. Even post board I couldn't keep enough on the board to do anything meaningful. Felt like an awful match up!
I used x3 Tidehollow, x1 phyrexian revoker, x2 path x1 selfless spirit and x1 maelstrom from my sideboard. No idea if these were the right calls, but didn't have much else and had x2 spellskite main already....
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cheeri0s is the breakfast of championsWRU Everyone loves an angry mobRWG Why so Bloo?RU
I'm wondering if Dusk//Dust is useful for the Eldrazi matchup (both Bant and Tron) from the board.
I have 2 in my sb and have liked it. I crushed bant easily and eldrazi tron kinda just had to have their best draws imo (but maybe I'm just a lot more all in). All these bad matchups are the reason I'm so in on just the combo asap and running 3 recruiter 4 ewit. It's all about speed and consistency and the only none combo creature I run main is 1 rec sage.
I tried some spell quellers briefly and they are really miserable in this deck. Scapeshift just remanded it, but coulda just easily let their scapeshift sit there until they felt like crypticking it or killing it or whatever. Storm and Ad Naus could play around it with remand // pacts, etc.
Knightfall decks I think apply more pressure with creatures and are able to just drop a 7/7 knight and sit back on spell queller. It's different for us in that the pressure is a bit less without resolving additional stuff.
My answer to the combo match has been to race game 1 -- I've T3'd combo decks often enough that if they don't have a nut draw I win.
Game 2 if combo is a big deal in your meta, put 2 pieces of anti-spell hate in the side (e.g. Canonist + Eidolon) and maybe some scullers.
The micro red splash discussed previously also grants Slaughter Games as an option which is largely unbeatable by most combo decks.
I tried some spell quellers briefly and they are really miserable in this deck. Scapeshift just remanded it, but coulda just easily let their scapeshift sit there until they felt like crypticking it or killing it or whatever. Storm and Ad Naus could play around it with remand // pacts, etc.
Knightfall decks I think apply more pressure with creatures and are able to just drop a 7/7 knight and sit back on spell queller. It's different for us in that the pressure is a bit less without resolving additional stuff.
My answer to the combo match has been to race game 1 -- I've T3'd combo decks often enough that if they don't have a nut draw I win.
Game 2 if combo is a big deal in your meta, put 2 pieces of anti-spell hate in the side (e.g. Canonist + Eidolon) and maybe some scullers.
The micro red splash discussed previously also grants Slaughter Games as an option which is largely unbeatable by most combo decks.
Played a modern tournament at the weekend and went 2-3.
Round 1 vs red-deck wins 2-1
Round 2 vs Esper Control 0-2
Round 3 vs merfolk 1-2
Round 4 vs white weenies 2-0
Round 5 vs Eldrazi Tron 0-2
I played two rallier and didn't see the benefit of them at all, so am tempted to go for 4 witness. Also played Rhonas and couldn't believe how many times I wished it was a mirror entity as it would've saved my creatures being pinged. And, so many times I had a township and wished it was a wolf run.... think I might try your list after all
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cheeri0s is the breakfast of championsWRU Everyone loves an angry mobRWG Why so Bloo?RU
Mirror entity is insane in unfair matchups and anything that plays red removal. It's been a complete and total house for me, generating turn 4 kills without the combo more than once.
Rallier is weirdly much better in bunches. Don't forget it can get back fetches and canopies. I have it on my list to test 2x ghost quarter / 2 life from the loam in the board when I want to side out dorks. Rallying back canopy is very strong.
Note: I would always 4 witness before any ralliers.
Wolf run is fantastic right now. Games don't usually last a long time (enough for tons of townships) and if they do you're usually left with 1-2 bodies on board because otherwise you won already, so rather than making 0/1s into 2/3s over two turns you'd rather just jam for 5 in the air.
Ok I was holding off on updating the primer because technically im lazy there was no way to see where this deck was going to go. For the "sample deck" and stuff I want a consensus list which is a problem as this deck is pretty flexible and by the time I'm done writing it there isn't going to be anything accepted I'm guessing. As of right now my priorities are finishing updating Green's Sun's Zenith > update this deck > update Knightfall.
This deck is going to need updated:
- The opening paragraphs
- Intro to the deck & combos
- Sample lists (weary about this right now, may just reduce to 1 deck until real results are out)
- Adding cards: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Renegade Rallier, Duskwatch Recruiter, Rhonas the Indomitable, Walking Ballista, Manglehorn, Tireless Tracker, and moving other cards around in the sections.
- There are a billion new lines of play so updating the tips & tricks section with a ton of new info
- Updating my spreadsheet. I'm just going totrack the GP lists which will be easy to do from the last year. And with the new shakeup old lists are pretty irrelevant.
Is there anything I am missing? I was thinking of adding a section on the differences between MTGO and paper lists and why you may be seeing different lists and cards performing in one medium compared to the other.
These changes will take a few weeks to get published. Let me know if you have any ideas of things to add.
The list I run has 4 Vizier of Remedies, 1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast, 4 Devoted Druid, 3 Duskwatch Recruiter and 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. I have had great success with this combo. I also run the 1 Viscera Seer, 1 Murderous Redcap, 2 Kitchen Finks combo as backup. Sometimes going infinite life is better than casting Emrakul but this is very rare. Having the consistency of Vizier and the threat of infinite mana and duskwatch filter for emrakul can force an opponent into a corner while setting up the redcap combo to sidestep their removal package postboard. Rarely can an opponent fight both. I'm also testing 3 Aether Vials main. It has certain advantages against control decks that feature heavy counters i.e. Remand and sorcery speed removal like Pyroclasm. It can also be an awkward top deck or crunch the curve when on the draw. I currently have mixed reviews but when I hit it turn one it seems to over-perform with Chord of Calling in the chamber to piece together the missing combo piece. Best at the eot of opp's turn to force the tap out counter or removal.
The list I run has 4 Vizier of Remedies, 1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast, 4 Devoted Druid, 3 Duskwatch Recruiter and 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. I have had great success with this combo. I also run the 1 Viscera Seer, 1 Murderous Redcap, 2 Kitchen Finks combo as backup. Sometimes going infinite life is better than casting Emrakul but this is very rare. Having the consistency of Vizier and the threat of infinite mana and duskwatch filter for emrakul can force an opponent into a corner while setting up the redcap combo to sidestep their removal package postboard. Rarely can an opponent fight both. I'm also testing 3 Aether Vials main. It has certain advantages against control decks that feature heavy counters i.e. Remand and sorcery speed removal like Pyroclasm. It can also be an awkward top deck or crunch the curve when on the draw. I currently have mixed reviews but when I hit it turn one it seems to over-perform with Chord of Calling in the chamber to piece together the missing combo piece. Best at the eot of opp's turn to force the tap out counter or removal.
Druid/melira is a nonbo and you're much better off just cutting her. If you're running the package I can't see why you wouldn't want 4 finks, the card is just great in the meta. Vial loses a ton of value if it's not your t1 play so if testing you should really just be on 4. As far as cutting the original combo goes, there is no chance I would. Cutting your deck to where you want it and gaining inf life on the way is just too good. The value in the new combo was to add to the deck and cutting the old combo might just be a worse deck than the original.
Mirror Entity has the issues of not just killing t3 when you have to combo. It requires white to cast, and if Druid is your only attacker if can just be chumped. Entity might be able to save your guys from some damage but I don't feel like that's as often as you may think. Push is more present than bolt these days and if you are playing an opponent that has bolt type effects they likely have them before you can set up entity as your protection. I think just killing the opponent is a better plan there.
Hey guys! I recently came back to the deck, having played it for a while during Eldrazi Winter. I definitely see the appeal in aggro-combo-control hybrid decks and it always felt like a fun deck to play. Anyway, Vizier of Remedies slots perfectly into the deck and allows for more Turn 3 kills which is a nice improvement against some bad matchups and an improvement in general, this is Modern after all I saw a couple all-in online 5-0 with playsets od combo pieces, tried them and didn't like some choices. Here's my current decklist, still figuring some sideboard slots (may add Decay/Path/Push):
Some notes: plan is really obvious, race for combo game 1 and side out some consistency for silver bullets. It seems not many play21 lands, but that's what maximizes the % of hands with the 2/3 lands. Not running Godless Shrine: 18G, 15B and 12W sources are just fine. So far, so good: the 69% winrate (24-11) is just about my winrates with tiered decks and I'm sure I'm not playing the deck to its fullest. Any feedback is welcome. In fact, how do you guys go about the Grixis Shadow matchup? I know it's been awful so far (1-6). Will try Smiter and Voice next league, but they don't seem good enough. Thanks!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:WU WU Control | WBG Abzan Company Frontier:UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Also re mirror entity
Entity is better against decks that do not deploy blockers and/or are unfair. Burn, Storm ad nauseum Tron etc. Also against decks that play path and red removal. In general rhonas is stronger against most fairer decks and it's not close. Indestructible is legit.
Entity also shines vs. tribal aggro (elves merfolk allies) because those decks tend to be bad at blocking and you can steal some games.
My meta is largely unfair race decks and tribal aggro which laughs at rhonas, and burn. Entity wrecks at my shop.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Druid is a dork so I think you mean 10?
The nice part is that your nobles and birds survive a lot more now. I have had one bird/noble die in the last 5 matches that wasn't a chump block.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Perfectly fine if Druid gets killed because we still have the combo we've always had in the deck (because this is about abzan obviously). Decks with spot removal get overrun and decks with sweepers have to use them early and at sorcery speed.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
StaffSpeaking of lands, I got on the crazy thought of combining Pokken's ideas and the Abzan lists. If you were to play a Kessig Wolf Run or two maindeck what kind of support does it need? Well 1 Stomping Grounds obviously but beyond that I don't think it needs much. If you are naturally playing 1 Courser of Kruphix in the maindeck for the extra draw with Horizon Canopy during the combo turn you can then equally use it to play the Wolf Run. It would completely negate needing a wincon outside of Anafenza game 1 and give another angle of attack for games 2 and 3 only through changing up ~2-3 land slots in the deck. Too crazy to work?
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I will say that having an uncounterable way to enable infinite damage is very nice vs grave hate and exiling effects. A lot of times rhonas or duskwatch get countered or need to be committed to board and get exiled early.
But I wouldn't say it's for sure worth it. Definitely some risk.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
In my experience we are not favored. They have bolt for the first combo attempt and Anger usually shuts you down long enough for them to combo. Also, fetching is kind of painful with this deck and if you dip below 16 you can die at any moment.
Also Storm and Living End is a real pain....
I played against Eldrazi Tron this weekend and in our first game, my opponent had chalice on 1 and on 2. Then thought-knot, followed by two walking ballista.... I didn't stand a chance. Even post board I couldn't keep enough on the board to do anything meaningful. Felt like an awful match up!
I used x3 Tidehollow, x1 phyrexian revoker, x2 path x1 selfless spirit and x1 maelstrom from my sideboard. No idea if these were the right calls, but didn't have much else and had x2 spellskite main already....
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
I have 2 in my sb and have liked it. I crushed bant easily and eldrazi tron kinda just had to have their best draws imo (but maybe I'm just a lot more all in). All these bad matchups are the reason I'm so in on just the combo asap and running 3 recruiter 4 ewit. It's all about speed and consistency and the only none combo creature I run main is 1 rec sage.
1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Viscera Seer
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
1 Zulaport Cutthroat
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
Land (21)
2 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Dusk // Dawn
1 Manglehorn
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Path to Exile
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Tidehollow Sculler
Knightfall decks I think apply more pressure with creatures and are able to just drop a 7/7 knight and sit back on spell queller. It's different for us in that the pressure is a bit less without resolving additional stuff.
My answer to the combo match has been to race game 1 -- I've T3'd combo decks often enough that if they don't have a nut draw I win.
Game 2 if combo is a big deal in your meta, put 2 pieces of anti-spell hate in the side (e.g. Canonist + Eidolon) and maybe some scullers.
The micro red splash discussed previously also grants Slaughter Games as an option which is largely unbeatable by most combo decks.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Played a modern tournament at the weekend and went 2-3.
Round 1 vs red-deck wins 2-1
Round 2 vs Esper Control 0-2
Round 3 vs merfolk 1-2
Round 4 vs white weenies 2-0
Round 5 vs Eldrazi Tron 0-2
I played two rallier and didn't see the benefit of them at all, so am tempted to go for 4 witness. Also played Rhonas and couldn't believe how many times I wished it was a mirror entity as it would've saved my creatures being pinged. And, so many times I had a township and wished it was a wolf run.... think I might try your list after all
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
Rallier is weirdly much better in bunches. Don't forget it can get back fetches and canopies. I have it on my list to test 2x ghost quarter / 2 life from the loam in the board when I want to side out dorks. Rallying back canopy is very strong.
Note: I would always 4 witness before any ralliers.
Wolf run is fantastic right now. Games don't usually last a long time (enough for tons of townships) and if they do you're usually left with 1-2 bodies on board because otherwise you won already, so rather than making 0/1s into 2/3s over two turns you'd rather just jam for 5 in the air.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Staffim lazythere was no way to see where this deck was going to go. For the "sample deck" and stuff I want a consensus list which is a problem as this deck is pretty flexible and by the time I'm done writing it there isn't going to be anything accepted I'm guessing. As of right now my priorities are finishing updating Green's Sun's Zenith > update this deck > update Knightfall.This deck is going to need updated:
- The opening paragraphs
- Intro to the deck & combos
- Sample lists (weary about this right now, may just reduce to 1 deck until real results are out)
- Adding cards: Devoted Druid, Vizier of Remedies, Renegade Rallier, Duskwatch Recruiter, Rhonas the Indomitable, Walking Ballista, Manglehorn, Tireless Tracker, and moving other cards around in the sections.
- There are a billion new lines of play so updating the tips & tricks section with a ton of new info
- Updating my spreadsheet. I'm just going totrack the GP lists which will be easy to do from the last year. And with the new shakeup old lists are pretty irrelevant.
Is there anything I am missing? I was thinking of adding a section on the differences between MTGO and paper lists and why you may be seeing different lists and cards performing in one medium compared to the other.
These changes will take a few weeks to get published. Let me know if you have any ideas of things to add.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Druid/melira is a nonbo and you're much better off just cutting her. If you're running the package I can't see why you wouldn't want 4 finks, the card is just great in the meta. Vial loses a ton of value if it's not your t1 play so if testing you should really just be on 4. As far as cutting the original combo goes, there is no chance I would. Cutting your deck to where you want it and gaining inf life on the way is just too good. The value in the new combo was to add to the deck and cutting the old combo might just be a worse deck than the original.
Mirror Entity has the issues of not just killing t3 when you have to combo. It requires white to cast, and if Druid is your only attacker if can just be chumped. Entity might be able to save your guys from some damage but I don't feel like that's as often as you may think. Push is more present than bolt these days and if you are playing an opponent that has bolt type effects they likely have them before you can set up entity as your protection. I think just killing the opponent is a better plan there.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Viscera Seer
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
4 Duskwatch Recruiter
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Eternal Witness
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
1 Walking Ballista
Spells
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
1 Forwst
1 Gavony Township
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Loxodon Smiter
1 Manglehorn
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Sin Collector
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Voice of Resurgence
Some notes: plan is really obvious, race for combo game 1 and side out some consistency for silver bullets. It seems not many play21 lands, but that's what maximizes the % of hands with the 2/3 lands. Not running Godless Shrine: 18G, 15B and 12W sources are just fine. So far, so good: the 69% winrate (24-11) is just about my winrates with tiered decks and I'm sure I'm not playing the deck to its fullest. Any feedback is welcome. In fact, how do you guys go about the Grixis Shadow matchup? I know it's been awful so far (1-6). Will try Smiter and Voice next league, but they don't seem good enough. Thanks!
Frontier: UBR Grixis Control | BRG Jund Delirium
Also re mirror entity
Entity is better against decks that do not deploy blockers and/or are unfair. Burn, Storm ad nauseum Tron etc. Also against decks that play path and red removal. In general rhonas is stronger against most fairer decks and it's not close. Indestructible is legit.
Entity also shines vs. tribal aggro (elves merfolk allies) because those decks tend to be bad at blocking and you can steal some games.
My meta is largely unfair race decks and tribal aggro which laughs at rhonas, and burn. Entity wrecks at my shop.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall