What was Severson's plan playing no redcap? I haven't seen this before. Hope they scoop to infinite life? Hope they assume you are running it? Go infinite then take your time winning with the attack step?
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Modern U Merfolk U WUBRGPeopleGRBUW U Turbo Turns U UB Fae BU WBG Aristocrats GBW
Link, verdant catacombs are definitely not being reprinted in a modern masters set, that's a huge cash cow and you'd be insane to think WOTC would miss out on that business opportunity. People have been waiting for catacombs to be reprinted for years now, you may as well pull that trigger, bud.
WOTC makes nothing off Verdant Catacombs/Mesa etc. Unless they do reprint. It's the secondary market that profits off fetches. High prices keep some people off magic or out of modern, or certain colors. Since they are most focused on Standard, it's inevitable they cycle back to the other fetches at some point.
Severson had an alternate damage combo in Archangel of Thune and Spike Feeder which allows him another infinite life and a damage combo and if he gets an Archangel of Thune after Finks combo he can still get infinite damage the downside is he can't instant speed the damage and it falls against another infinite life combo.
Seems like lists have lately been opting to drop Redcap. Lets be honest, it's mostly in there to give the deck a way to finish off opponents who don't concede to infinite life. It might have something to do with the fact that there are not as many infinite damage combo matchups in the meta now that Twin was banned. Twin was one of the few decks that could beat the first half of our deck, and Cryptic gave it a way to stall attack steps, so it made it more imperative to be able to finish the following turn with direct damage. Now, however, I cannot think of a deck in the meta that goes infinite on damage, so the first half is generally enough.
Seems like lists have lately been opting to drop Redcap. Lets be honest, it's mostly in there to give the deck a way to finish off opponents who don't concede to infinite life. It might have something to do with the fact that there are not as many infinite damage combo matchups in the meta now that Twin was banned. Twin was one of the few decks that could beat the first half of our deck, and Cryptic gave it a way to stall attack steps, so it made it more imperative to be able to finish the following turn with direct damage. Now, however, I cannot think of a deck in the meta that goes infinite on damage, so the first half is generally enough.
I go back and forth on the redcap as well.. The matchups where you "need" it (doesn't scoop to infinite life), are Tron, Mill, Esper control, Ad Nauseam, Anything with Emrakul, Infect, Affinity, Lantern, Mirror.
Those are the matchups that can win through infinite life. I might have forgot a couple, especially fringe decks.
Of those, it's at its best against lantern, tron and the mirror imo. The other decks can be beat by scrying to infinite bolsters, and melira is naturally good against infect anyway. Infinite scries will win against lantern in almost all situations.
Against decks with emrakul, or white sun's Zenith (esper), they sometimes just boardwipe you after infinite life and win while you run out of cards.
This post is not really a for or against a redcap, both with or without is viable imo, depends what you think you will meet. It's good to know where you'd want it though.
So, I've been on and off of this deck since it was referred to as "Look, Ma, no Pod!" on here, though my time away from it has led to me finding a lot of changes and I'm feeling pretty inexperienced with the deck now. Picked it up again recently and have been getting slammed by most of my opponents (which I do chalk up to my own misplays and rustiness), but I'm wondering if my list can't be tweaked for better results, too. Seems fairly stock to me per recent tourney results, but after some games last night I've got a few doubts in some of my choices.
My current thoughts are that I need to go back up to a full 4x Birds, move Qasali to the side, and that Voice of Resurgence seems to be underperforming compared to my experience with him in earlier iterations (though I expected otherwise after seeing him make a comeback in recent lists). My sideboard seems like it could use work, too, and try as I might I find that I cannot beat Kind -- the matchup destroys me. I tried boarding out dorks per sideboard guide and it ended up even worse for me, got 1 for 1'd at every turn and never stabilized. Any help or suggestions overall would be great! Want to get competitive with this deck again. Thanks!
Thanks for the reply! Canopies are on the need list, just working towards getting them. Until then, would you suggest Tracker remain a 1x in the side? Maybe replace with 1x BOP in the main? Also considering swapping Voice with Thune Feeder combo SB to MB, but possibly too cute.
So I am probably the only one but I have been having great success with evolutionary leap as my grindy sideboard plan. The ability to rally it back is just absurd.
Though I am considering swapping over to the sculler plan from the path plan, and just keeping two pulses as my catch alls. Thus far I have really liked 2 CMC hate cards because of how strong rallier is.
I don't see a lot of reason to play any number of trackers except for the synergy with rallier, but that clutters up your 3 CMC spot where you should be playing mostly combo creatures.
I can see 2x tracker as a sideboard plan for grindy matchups potentially, but I just don't dig it in the main. You really do not want to overload at 3 with Ralliers.
I haven't played Abzan Company for a while now (Collected Elves being the most recent Modern Company deck I played and Rally in Frontier being the most recent Frontier Company deck I played). I was looking at Eric Severson's list and was wondering about Tireless Tracker. Is it just for big game vs. Jund? It doesn't seem necessary. Here's the list for reference.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
And what I want to know is why so many lists don't play murderous redcap? If you play the melira combo, it wins instead of just gaining life and hoping for a concession. Is it just that normal players just concede to the high-life, so the lower mana cost of kitchen finks is better? Seems borderline cheaty. (i.e. you could very well end-up losing to an empty library and only rely on your opponent graciously conceding rather than getting a draw due to time?)
And what I want to know is why so many lists don't play murderous redcap? If you play the melira combo, it wins instead of just gaining life and hoping for a concession. Is it just that normal players just concede to the high-life, so the lower mana cost of kitchen finks is better? Seems borderline cheaty. (i.e. you could very well end-up losing to an empty library and only rely on your opponent graciously conceding rather than getting a draw due to time?)
That actually seems okay to me. You can get the infinite counters on creatures or Thune/Feeder combo, or just set up your draws to just out value your opponent.
That being said, when I last ran the deck for a short bit, there's definitely games/matches that I wouldn't have won with just infinite life (One Tron and one Jeskai Nahiri). Well, actually one was KCI "Eggs" with Emrakuls.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Remember that you can scry up Anafenza to attack for a billion next turn. The main functional difference here is that Recap does not rely on the attack step.
It's mostly only tron that redcap was super good against, and Rallier gives us another way to beat tron -- just aggro them down and cross your fingers. It's just about as effective (which is to say not very).
The other optional approach is to play 3-4 ralliers and 3-4 ghost quarters and shave gavony township entirely, but I think this is only reasonable in a seriously tron/scapeshift heavy meta.
That list is so far away from where this deck has been, is, or is going I can't entirely say. There are some good cards, but you'd need to really playtest it. I have my doubts it has consistency or synergy. Have you read the primer or looked at recent decklists? You are missing mana dorks for one.
It's mostly only tron that redcap was super good against, and Rallier gives us another way to beat tron -- just aggro them down and cross your fingers. It's just about as effective (which is to say not very).
The other optional approach is to play 3-4 ralliers and 3-4 ghost quarters and shave gavony township entirely, but I think this is only reasonable in a seriously tron/scapeshift heavy meta.
I've never found Ghost Quarter to be all that good vs. Scapeshift, especially the RG version. How do you usually use them against it?
@RavenWatch - It's a solid deck, combining Next Level Abzan (Abzan Ascendancy) with Abzan Company. Although I've only played against it once with Little Kid Abzan, it seemed like it was trying to do too much - losing either primary focus. Both decks are decks I should lose to, but combining both made it easier for me. But my experience is skewed due to only playing against it once, at FNM no less.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Yeah I'm missing all the money from Little Kid unfortunately. It might be a bit unfocused, but I feel like I just always have the combo, or even if I don't, I have a very large, resilient board. Hard to say.
Yeah, I know I'm not the best person to ask about the list, but I probably know more than most people who will reply here on Next Level Abzan (Kelvin Chew ran the deck at a GP I believe). I tried it a bit when Zulaport Cutthroat came out and it was good vs. BGx (Jund/Junk), but I never played it against Little Kid. I think I was 3-1-1 and 2-1 at a TNM and FNM with it. Then I didn't see it again until I faced it 2 FNMs ago.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Well, part of it is the numbers. We're not even behind playing 1 of Zulaport or Blood Artist, much less a 4 of. Missing exalted through Qasali or Hierarch, mana ramp through mana dorks (so you are likely dead before you develop a board), bolster through Anafenza or Gavony, etc. We tend to have more one ofs and use Chord or Eldritch Evolution to have more of a toolbox. At least from the deck as its been the past year or so. I think there's a reason it's developed to where it is at. But if you are on a budget, go play. However forum rules are that you go to the budget forum to discuss there. Not that I want to play police man! But this thread is for the most competitive version of the deck. Sorry if that all seems rude.
It's mostly only tron that redcap was super good against, and Rallier gives us another way to beat tron -- just aggro them down and cross your fingers. It's just about as effective (which is to say not very).
The other optional approach is to play 3-4 ralliers and 3-4 ghost quarters and shave gavony township entirely, but I think this is only reasonable in a seriously tron/scapeshift heavy meta.
I've never found Ghost Quarter to be all that good vs. Scapeshift, especially the RG version. How do you usually use them against it?
I don't think I would recommend it strongly but there are numerous situations where it's pretty good vs. titanshift and breach titan, since if you have a ghost quarter up they have to be less greedy with their titans. A breached Titan normally will do 18 or so, but if you can quarter one of the valakuts it can severely slow their clock (particularly if you can just do it again).
It's definitely stronger than gavony township anyway, so if the meta shifted to a lot of big mana it's something I would try. Rallier lets ghost quarter potentially be viable anyway.
Tec edge might actually be more viable, although it's again much worse against Tron.
U Merfolk U
WUBRGPeopleGRBUW
U Turbo Turns U
UB Fae BU
WBG Aristocrats GBW
WOTC makes nothing off Verdant Catacombs/Mesa etc. Unless they do reprint. It's the secondary market that profits off fetches. High prices keep some people off magic or out of modern, or certain colors. Since they are most focused on Standard, it's inevitable they cycle back to the other fetches at some point.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
I go back and forth on the redcap as well.. The matchups where you "need" it (doesn't scoop to infinite life), are Tron, Mill, Esper control, Ad Nauseam, Anything with Emrakul, Infect, Affinity, Lantern, Mirror.
Those are the matchups that can win through infinite life. I might have forgot a couple, especially fringe decks.
Of those, it's at its best against lantern, tron and the mirror imo. The other decks can be beat by scrying to infinite bolsters, and melira is naturally good against infect anyway. Infinite scries will win against lantern in almost all situations.
Against decks with emrakul, or white sun's Zenith (esper), they sometimes just boardwipe you after infinite life and win while you run out of cards.
This post is not really a for or against a redcap, both with or without is viable imo, depends what you think you will meet. It's good to know where you'd want it though.
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Viscera Seer
2 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
2 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Voice of Resurgence
2 Wall of Roots
2 Eternal Witness
1 Fiend Hunter
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Renegade Rallier
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Murderous Redcap
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
Lands
2 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Spike Feeder
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Archangel of Thune
2 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
My current thoughts are that I need to go back up to a full 4x Birds, move Qasali to the side, and that Voice of Resurgence seems to be underperforming compared to my experience with him in earlier iterations (though I expected otherwise after seeing him make a comeback in recent lists). My sideboard seems like it could use work, too, and try as I might I find that I cannot beat Kind -- the matchup destroys me. I tried boarding out dorks per sideboard guide and it ended up even worse for me, got 1 for 1'd at every turn and never stabilized. Any help or suggestions overall would be great! Want to get competitive with this deck again. Thanks!
My experience thus far has mirrored yours re: Voice. I really like the card but it just has not performed yet.
I do not think tireless tracker belongs in any main decks. Just do not get it.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Current board is:
Though I am considering swapping over to the sculler plan from the path plan, and just keeping two pulses as my catch alls. Thus far I have really liked 2 CMC hate cards because of how strong rallier is.
I don't see a lot of reason to play any number of trackers except for the synergy with rallier, but that clutters up your 3 CMC spot where you should be playing mostly combo creatures.
I can see 2x tracker as a sideboard plan for grindy matchups potentially, but I just don't dig it in the main. You really do not want to overload at 3 with Ralliers.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/576218#online
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)That actually seems okay to me. You can get the infinite counters on creatures or Thune/Feeder combo, or just set up your draws to just out value your opponent.
That being said, when I last ran the deck for a short bit, there's definitely games/matches that I wouldn't have won with just infinite life (One Tron and one Jeskai Nahiri). Well, actually one was KCI "Eggs" with Emrakuls.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
The other optional approach is to play 3-4 ralliers and 3-4 ghost quarters and shave gavony township entirely, but I think this is only reasonable in a seriously tron/scapeshift heavy meta.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
I've never found Ghost Quarter to be all that good vs. Scapeshift, especially the RG version. How do you usually use them against it?
@RavenWatch - It's a solid deck, combining Next Level Abzan (Abzan Ascendancy) with Abzan Company. Although I've only played against it once with Little Kid Abzan, it seemed like it was trying to do too much - losing either primary focus. Both decks are decks I should lose to, but combining both made it easier for me. But my experience is skewed due to only playing against it once, at FNM no less.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Yeah, I know I'm not the best person to ask about the list, but I probably know more than most people who will reply here on Next Level Abzan (Kelvin Chew ran the deck at a GP I believe). I tried it a bit when Zulaport Cutthroat came out and it was good vs. BGx (Jund/Junk), but I never played it against Little Kid. I think I was 3-1-1 and 2-1 at a TNM and FNM with it. Then I didn't see it again until I faced it 2 FNMs ago.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
I don't think I would recommend it strongly but there are numerous situations where it's pretty good vs. titanshift and breach titan, since if you have a ghost quarter up they have to be less greedy with their titans. A breached Titan normally will do 18 or so, but if you can quarter one of the valakuts it can severely slow their clock (particularly if you can just do it again).
It's definitely stronger than gavony township anyway, so if the meta shifted to a lot of big mana it's something I would try. Rallier lets ghost quarter potentially be viable anyway.
Tec edge might actually be more viable, although it's again much worse against Tron.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall