ended up going 3-2 at a 19 person GPT today, which was enough for top 8.
Round 1 I 2-1 fish. Game 1 he didn’t draw well and I won. Game 2 he kept an okay 7 and drew well. Game 3 he didn’t draw a vial or many lords so I could 1 for 1 him, he drew some late phantasmal images, which he used the first to copy a snapcaster, I then killed it with izzet staticaster. I killed the second image, which he used to copy my staticcaster, by targeting it. For a while I just didn’t draw into a win con, which got me worried but I got there. Managed to kill a great glass spinner by dumping a fatal push to break the counter trigger, then terminate it
Round 2 I lose to Grishoalbrand 1-2. Game 1 I could have played tighter and probably made a better decision with an early collective brutality but I got there. Game 2 I think I mulled and he just won. Game 3 I didn’t get a great 6 but I felt it could have bene better than 5 but he won.
Round 3 I dumpstered RG titanshift 2-0. Game 1 he mulls to 4 but was still sort of in it, except I just out valued him because he only had a few cards. Game 2 I had him at 7, I had a Tasigur vs a courser, he didn’t respect bolt and didn’t block. I had bolt. He later told me that courser was too important to his plan
Round 4 I lose to living end 1-2 I think. Game 1 I misplayed by getting too greedy. I think my lands were a steam vents and a swamp. I got greedy and bolted him eot and he just cascaded into a living end. Game 2 I play the control game and won. Game 3 I mulled to 5 and was in it for a bit since he couldn’t draw a way to cast into living end. Ricochet trap is a card though
Round 5 was a win and in for me against my buddy’s Bu zombies. Game 1 was tight, with it going back and fourth. I got there somehow though. I just remember him having to stop and think how to block and I eventually got there. Game 2 he wins. Game 3 I was on the play. I think it went t1 serum visions, t2 brutality choosing to kill his crypt breaker and make him discard an instant, that I don’t remember. T3 fulm killing a tar pit. T4 snap flashing back brutality, choosing kill his relentless dead and drain him. Then I just remember playing snap beats for a bit, then let him kill it after afew hits. I think at that point he was dead after afew tar pit attacks.
So at this point pretty sure I was in top 8, it just depended on my tie breakers. , I got like 7th and played my buddy on shoal who was 2nd. He dumpstered me so I didn’t win anything. It wasn’t much of a match.
I had some bad mulls today but I feel the only bad play I made was bolting eot.
I don't think that article was posted here. Saheen's take on the deck. I have to disagree both with reducing the cryptics however as well as cutting down on manlands. I can't see how you win grindy MUs without manlands.
I don't think that article was posted here. Saheen's take on the deck. I have to disagree both with reducing the cryptics however as well as cutting down on manlands. I can't see how you win grindy MUs without manlands.
well, I on the other hand agree fully with all of these points. I remember going through these same thought processes somewhere in the past too. I much prefer having 1 Tar Pit, I much prefer jut 3 Cryptics, and Countersquall is so much better than negate. Fatal Push is also essential, again, because Terminate is sometimes just too slow.
I don't think that article was posted here. Saheen's take on the deck. I have to disagree both with reducing the cryptics however as well as cutting down on manlands. I can't see how you win grindy MUs without manlands.
well, I on the other hand agree fully with all of these points. I remember going through these same thought processes somewhere in the past too. I much prefer having 1 Tar Pit, I much prefer jut 3 Cryptics, and Countersquall is so much better than negate. Fatal Push is also essential, again, because Terminate is sometimes just too slow.
I think just one or 0 Tar Pits makes us just to vulnerable to removal. We already saw several instances at the coverage of the latest events where it was impossible for grixis players to capitalize on their leads because there was no way to close the game or apply pressure. Quite often a path/bolt would had been detrimental. I don't think it is a viable choice to lower our threat density. If one wants to replace CTP I think it must be replaced with another threat.
On the Fatal Push/Terminate, it really depends on the amount of DSJund/Eldrazi you expect. Fatal Push has been rather bad on my playtesting against Eldrazi. It is obviously insane against DSJund, but so is Terminate since they are not that fast anymore.
Countersquall is indeed better than Negate but there is no need to press our mana constraints even more.
Cryptic commands fall under the same category of threat density. They are the cards that push us way ahead, something that Logic Knot won't do. It will just trade, CC will 2-1.
I don't think that article was posted here. Saheen's take on the deck. I have to disagree both with reducing the cryptics however as well as cutting down on manlands. I can't see how you win grindy MUs without manlands.
well, I on the other hand agree fully with all of these points. I remember going through these same thought processes somewhere in the past too. I much prefer having 1 Tar Pit, I much prefer jut 3 Cryptics, and Countersquall is so much better than negate. Fatal Push is also essential, again, because Terminate is sometimes just too slow.
I think just one or 0 Tar Pits makes us just to vulnerable to removal. We already saw several instances at the coverage of the latest events where it was impossible for grixis players to capitalize on their leads because there was no way to close the game or apply pressure. Quite often a path/bolt would had been detrimental. I don't think it is a viable choice to lower our threat density. If one wants to replace CTP I think it must be replaced with another threat.
On the Fatal Push/Terminate, it really depends on the amount of DSJund/Eldrazi you expect. Fatal Push has been rather bad on my playtesting against Eldrazi. It is obviously insane against DSJund, but so is Terminate since they are not that fast anymore.
Countersquall is indeed better than Negate but there is no need to press our mana constraints even more.
Cryptic commands fall under the same category of threat density. They are the cards that push us way ahead, something that Logic Knot won't do. It will just trade, CC will 2-1.
I don't think threat density is a strong argument for CTP. Getting to a situation where you can start activating CTPs takes so long that you're quite likely going to draw into enough threats by that point. Also, having just 1 CPT doesn't mean you don't draw into that one when the game goes long. I like CTP but its downsides are also very real. I remember losing quite a lot of games or having to mulligan hands because I have had a CPT in my opener.
Cryptic is a way to pull ahead, but only if you can afford to use the right modes. Early interaction means you can afford to use counter + draw modes more often, instead of having to use the Cryptics just to buy time with bounce and tap. Going down to 3 Cryptics and adding a cheap spell makes this more likely.
As for Negate vs Countersquall, I say the pros outweight the negatives. Even against burn making them lose life is sometimes as good as gaining life, not to even mention that that doesn't always have to be the case. Also, Burn is just one deck in the format. Combo, Control and Ramp make a much MUCH bigger portion of the meta, and turning your counters into burn spells is absolutely massive there.
Anyone thought of running these? I know they don't fix the problem but they should at least be looked at and considered right? Scatter seems the mostly likely one you would want to use. Only downside to Singing is it is an enchantment.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Anyone thought of running these? I know they don't fix the problem but they should at least be looked at and considered right? Scatter seems the mostly likely one you would want to use. Only downside to Singing is it is an enchantment.
I can't see any reason to play these cards, care to provide any?
Anyone thought of running these? I know they don't fix the problem but they should at least be looked at and considered right? Scatter seems the mostly likely one you would want to use. Only downside to Singing is it is an enchantment.
Am I missing something?
Take into Custody is cute, but it doesn't actually remove anything, and it doesn't replace it self. It is card-disadvantage and doesn't even trade 1 for 1.
Singing-bell strike isn't instant speed, isn't an instant or sorcery (bad with snappy).
Essence Scatter is worse than Mana Leak imo. Otherwise, we can just use Push/Terminate on the creature. Having conditional removal as narrow as JUST creatures is not where a control deck in this meta wants to be. The advantage of countersquall is that it hits pesky PW, opponents removal (to protect our few win-cons and Lingering Souls type cards.
It is nice to bring up cards, but the cards you brought up literally do the exact opposite of we want, which is trading 1 for 1 early and getting mad value late game, and having removal/counters that aren't as narrow.
Essence Scatter vs any creaure heavy deck. We lose to hoards of them no? And we don't run too many board wipes in the side. Why not have a generic hard counter? Mana leak isn't reliable late game which this deck grinds out towards. Our only other counters are CC, negate, and countersquall usually. Some don't run leak either. It is odd not seeing a creature only counter. It should at least be brought up. Not to mention the the easy mana cost.
Singing-Bell was just an idea as an alternative psuedo lock down. Perhaps not usuable in this shell. It will defintely get some wierd looks when it's played. No one will bring in enchantment removal either.
Take into custody same as above except maybe better reserved for a delver shell. Just tossing ideas out there. Sometimes control comes in different forms. You can't play draw go and win and sometimes things slip through and you need ways of handling them differently. Opponents know the decklist and will find ways of baiting our counters to let better answers through.
To me bouncing cheap threats or ones with ETB effects just isn't a good strategy for blue anymore. I'm looking to counter or lock them down effectively and ignore them. Reason I like tap effects is so Tasigur can push damage through instead of waiting for a cryptic. A lot of talk in the current state of Modern thread about how blue is terrible but no one is bringing up possible answers. I thought it might be a good idea to share my own.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Essence Scatter vs any creaure heavy deck. We lose to hoards of them no? And we don't run too many board wipes in the side. Why not have a generic hard counter? Mana leak isn't reliable late game which this deck grinds out towards. Our only other counters are CC, negate, and countersquall usually. Some don't run leak either. It is odd not seeing a creature only counter. It should at least be brought up. Not to mention the the easy mana cost.
If you had actually brought up a generic hard counter we'd be giving it serious consideration, but you didn't. You brought up a very conditional counter, that handles 1 out of 6 spell types. Negate/Countersquall hits the other 5, making it a far better candidate for the term "generic hard counter", and squall even has a shock attached. Furthermore, Grixis is not lacking in creature removal, which is to say we can deal with resolved creatures with our bolts, terminates and pushes. Enchantments, Artifacts, Planeswalkers are the trickier permanents, hence we want counterspells that can catch those.
Singing-Bell was just an idea as an alternative psuedo lock down. Perhaps not usuable in this shell. It will defintely get some wierd looks when it's played. No one will bring in enchantment removal either.
Any reason we don't want to just terminate the creature? I can't even see this being better against Wurmcoil engine, since they will have little problem paying 6 if they could cast it in the first place. It also does nothing against value creatures like Dark Confidant and Young Pyro.
Take into custody same as above except maybe better reserved for a delver shell. Just tossing ideas out there. Sometimes control comes in different forms. You can't play draw go and win and sometimes things slip through and you need ways of handling them differently. Opponents know the decklist and will find ways of baiting our counters to let better answers through.
This card is a tempo card, but it does so much worse than Vapor Snag. If you want this sort of effect, at least make them pay the casting cost of the creature again. Take Into Custody is not even limited playable.
To me bouncing cheap threats or ones with ETB effects just isn't a good strategy for blue anymore. I'm looking to counter or lock them down effectively and ignore them. Reason I like tap effects is so Tasigur can push damage through instead of waiting for a cryptic. A lot of talk in the current state of Modern thread about how blue is terrible but no one is bringing up possible answers. I thought it might be a good idea to share my own.
If this was a mono blue thread you'd be making some sense. It isn't however, and your posts do look a little ridiculous. We're killing things dead with Fatal Pushes, Terminates and Bolts, and you're suggesting tap spells that I wouldn't put in a sealed or draft deck.
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
what would everyone say our titanshift/GR scapeshift or even GR breach match is like?
GR breach isn't common around here but I did beat it at the WMCQ I played in September, don't know it much though.
there are a few GR titanshift decks around here and I'm starting to feel better about it, as I managed to get 2 match wins vs it in the past week, one of them I know is solid with the deck. I understand you need to have enough permission and a bit of a clock helps.
What you think about Goblin Dark Dwellers I'm playing two main deck
I think he is fine but 5 cmc is pretty high. He is a decent threat and can cast those AV from the yard but I think some people have tried him then took him out? If he is working for you then great! If you can add some feedback about playing them it would also be helpful. My thoughts are a 4/4 with menace and reusing a terminate, fatal push, KCommand or AV is fantastic but the body might not be good enough that late in the game. He also taps you out while this style of deck plays re actively with cheap threats. Maybe just play as a 1 of?
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Is there any particular reason why Grixis Control decks typically do not run thoughtseize or inquisition of kozilek? Is the hope to counter or terminate and stay tempo neutral or plus?
It seems to be that T1 Thoughtseize, T2 Spell Snare and Ancestral Visions, T3 Tasigur seems like a solid play. So I am looking to see if there is a big reason why no one has done this.
Thoughtseize/inquisition is the build I play but it's a completely different deck. That version of grixis plays 3-4 copies of liliana of the veil instead of playing cryptic command and typically only plays 0-3 counterspells. It plays at sorcery speed rather than instant speed.
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On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
I've long been under the presumption that A Vision is kinda' average in this deck. I'm at 3 but I'm always wondering if I just want two. It requires a lot of time and resources to let yourself get behind and often times it makes your reactive spells unplayable when you draw them after falling behind for a few turns.
Olivia Voldaren looks out of place but it's my best card vs. Bant Eldrazi. A mix of Clique and Fulminator are the tron predators -- you don't want a bunch of either since they become redundant after the 2nd.
Slay is good vs. the uptick in Goyf decks. It's probably not necessary but it is a lot of fun. I like cantrips.
Remand is very good right now and probably under played. I'm happy with access to one copy. If you recall, they were in Chapin's original list and its insane in Snap MUs, Primetime decks, and other clunk fests.
Logic Knot is basically playable only due to *quirk* players. It's not a fundamentally good card and doesn't allow you to run multiple copies. It gets hit by the same hate that makes snap worse and also makes your snaps incidentally worse since you're often in a spot where you have to delve snapcaster "options". I keep seeing it in lists and all I can say is that you should do you but don't try and convince others that L.Knot is a playable card. The first copy is barely playable. It's sort of like Shadow of Doubt right now. I play Shadow of Doubt in grixis all the time. Should you and others play it? Probably not unless your meta is Traversing and Primetiming.
I like Fatal Push. Somewhere between 2 and 3 is right. Bolt is still a 4x.
Gearhulk is cool. You really don't need more *grind* but I'm just doing the whole "treat yo'self" thing. So it's there for tonight.
Olivia Voldaren looks out of place but it's my best card vs. Bant Eldrazi. A mix of Clique and Fulminator are the tron predators -- you don't want a bunch of either since they become redundant after the 2nd.
Slay is good vs. the uptick in Goyf decks. It's probably not necessary but it is a lot of fun. I like cantrips.
While I agree with some of what you posted I disagree with quite a bit as well. Ancestral visions is a big part of what helps this deck grind and allows it to play so much one for one removal. I agree multiples hurt especially late game but running any less than 4 is a mistake imo since it's our strongest turn 1 play for a lot of matchups.
As for sideboarding: What is Olivia doing for you in the bant eldrazi matchups? I don't really see how she would be useful, It's 7 mana to start controlling creatures and you even have to discard 2 cards if you want to use it on smasher so wouldn't more removal just be better? And on that note, I don't see the point in Slay over fatal push especially vs goyf decks as you mentioned. Is 2 extra mana over push worth cycling? The Thoughtseize also seems really out of place, especially as a 1 of, Doesn't seem like it would come up very often and if it does its even less likely to be in your opening hand where it's most effective.
While I agree with some of what you posted I disagree with quite a bit as well. Ancestral visions is a big part of what helps this deck grind and allows it to play so much one for one removal. I agree multiples hurt especially late game but running any less than 4 is a mistake imo since it's our strongest turn 1 play for a lot of matchups.
As for sideboarding: What is Olivia doing for you in the bant eldrazi matchups?
She gets big and you should reread Smasher. You don't have to steal anything although having mana to help bolt kill TKS and company is cool. Having creatures vs Eldrazi is more important than killing all their stuff. Killing all their stuff is a dangerous proposition unless you're on the Damnation plan.
I don't see the point in Slay over fatal push especially vs goyf decks as you mentioned. Is 2 extra mana over push worth cycling? The Thoughtseize also seems really out of place, especially as a 1 of, Doesn't seem like it would come up very often and if it does its even less likely to be in your opening hand where it's most effective.
2 for 1s are more important than 1 for 1s.
When decks are resilient to 1-for-1s, you also need a way to keep parity. The deck could already Fatal Push all day every day even before Fatal Push. Goyf?
Slay is about killing Primetimes, Goyfs, Flayers, everything out of Abzan Coco, Elves...
This is similar to why Electrolyze is often better than bolt. It's obviously not as efficient however the ability to replace itself cannot be undervalued.
1-of Thoughtseize issue? I want to draw exactly one Thoughtseize in the games where it matters. Not 3. Not 2. 1.
With Scour and Serum Visions, you see so much of your deck that you can find Thoughtseize easily.
All the cards you listed for Slay could also be killed for 1 cmc with push except for prime which you're in a horrible position at that point and most likely to get burned out by valakut triggers. I always side out terminates against valakut for that reason, at best it's a bandaid solution but you're still very likely dead really soon.
And electrolyze is not better than bolt at all. There's at reason almost no decks run electrolyze versus every deck that's running red having the full playset of bolts. It all comes down to mana efficiency and for 3 mana electrolyze doesn't really do enough especially in this meta. If you have a bunch of x/1s running around then maybe but that's meta specific not overall.
Edit: as for Thoughtseize, discard is at its strongest in the first few turns and an abysmal top deck later on. Doesn't matter if you can cycle through and guarantee you find it by turn 5 or 6 since by then it's usually too late to grab what you wanted to stop
Wait, why would you ever want to play any of those cards over Tasigur, the Golden Fang? Or even Gurmag Angler? Grixis is blessed with access to cheap, efficient finishers that are easy to protect, and you're not using them? I don't understand.
Control uses cantrips to sculpt its hand or dig for answers. Thought Scour is a cantrip. Scour also fills your graveyard for Snapcaster Mage and Kolaghan's Command. I'm not seeing the downside here. That list just looks sub-optimal for what amounts to no good reason. The only semi-defensible reason would be not wanting to be as cold to graveyard hate, but frankly the current version of Grixis can play around a lot of graveyard hate pretty well, especially the stuff that's commonly played these days (more Relic of Progenitus and Surgical Extraction than it is Rest in Peace). I don't get the direction you're coming from. If you want to play big bombs, ditch the counterspell package, pack loads of discard, and go midrange.
Round 1 I 2-1 fish. Game 1 he didn’t draw well and I won. Game 2 he kept an okay 7 and drew well. Game 3 he didn’t draw a vial or many lords so I could 1 for 1 him, he drew some late phantasmal images, which he used the first to copy a snapcaster, I then killed it with izzet staticaster. I killed the second image, which he used to copy my staticcaster, by targeting it. For a while I just didn’t draw into a win con, which got me worried but I got there. Managed to kill a great glass spinner by dumping a fatal push to break the counter trigger, then terminate it
Round 2 I lose to Grishoalbrand 1-2. Game 1 I could have played tighter and probably made a better decision with an early collective brutality but I got there. Game 2 I think I mulled and he just won. Game 3 I didn’t get a great 6 but I felt it could have bene better than 5 but he won.
Round 3 I dumpstered RG titanshift 2-0. Game 1 he mulls to 4 but was still sort of in it, except I just out valued him because he only had a few cards. Game 2 I had him at 7, I had a Tasigur vs a courser, he didn’t respect bolt and didn’t block. I had bolt. He later told me that courser was too important to his plan
Round 4 I lose to living end 1-2 I think. Game 1 I misplayed by getting too greedy. I think my lands were a steam vents and a swamp. I got greedy and bolted him eot and he just cascaded into a living end. Game 2 I play the control game and won. Game 3 I mulled to 5 and was in it for a bit since he couldn’t draw a way to cast into living end. Ricochet trap is a card though
Round 5 was a win and in for me against my buddy’s Bu zombies. Game 1 was tight, with it going back and fourth. I got there somehow though. I just remember him having to stop and think how to block and I eventually got there. Game 2 he wins. Game 3 I was on the play. I think it went t1 serum visions, t2 brutality choosing to kill his crypt breaker and make him discard an instant, that I don’t remember. T3 fulm killing a tar pit. T4 snap flashing back brutality, choosing kill his relentless dead and drain him. Then I just remember playing snap beats for a bit, then let him kill it after afew hits. I think at that point he was dead after afew tar pit attacks.
So at this point pretty sure I was in top 8, it just depended on my tie breakers. , I got like 7th and played my buddy on shoal who was 2nd. He dumpstered me so I didn’t win anything. It wasn’t much of a match.
I had some bad mulls today but I feel the only bad play I made was bolting eot.
I don't think that article was posted here. Saheen's take on the deck. I have to disagree both with reducing the cryptics however as well as cutting down on manlands. I can't see how you win grindy MUs without manlands.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
well, I on the other hand agree fully with all of these points. I remember going through these same thought processes somewhere in the past too. I much prefer having 1 Tar Pit, I much prefer jut 3 Cryptics, and Countersquall is so much better than negate. Fatal Push is also essential, again, because Terminate is sometimes just too slow.
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On the Fatal Push/Terminate, it really depends on the amount of DSJund/Eldrazi you expect. Fatal Push has been rather bad on my playtesting against Eldrazi. It is obviously insane against DSJund, but so is Terminate since they are not that fast anymore.
Countersquall is indeed better than Negate but there is no need to press our mana constraints even more.
Cryptic commands fall under the same category of threat density. They are the cards that push us way ahead, something that Logic Knot won't do. It will just trade, CC will 2-1.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I don't think threat density is a strong argument for CTP. Getting to a situation where you can start activating CTPs takes so long that you're quite likely going to draw into enough threats by that point. Also, having just 1 CPT doesn't mean you don't draw into that one when the game goes long. I like CTP but its downsides are also very real. I remember losing quite a lot of games or having to mulligan hands because I have had a CPT in my opener.
Cryptic is a way to pull ahead, but only if you can afford to use the right modes. Early interaction means you can afford to use counter + draw modes more often, instead of having to use the Cryptics just to buy time with bounce and tap. Going down to 3 Cryptics and adding a cheap spell makes this more likely.
As for Negate vs Countersquall, I say the pros outweight the negatives. Even against burn making them lose life is sometimes as good as gaining life, not to even mention that that doesn't always have to be the case. Also, Burn is just one deck in the format. Combo, Control and Ramp make a much MUCH bigger portion of the meta, and turning your counters into burn spells is absolutely massive there.
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Take into Custody
Singing-bell strike
Essence Scatter
Anyone thought of running these? I know they don't fix the problem but they should at least be looked at and considered right? Scatter seems the mostly likely one you would want to use. Only downside to Singing is it is an enchantment.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I can't see any reason to play these cards, care to provide any?
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Am I missing something?
Take into Custody is cute, but it doesn't actually remove anything, and it doesn't replace it self. It is card-disadvantage and doesn't even trade 1 for 1.
Singing-bell strike isn't instant speed, isn't an instant or sorcery (bad with snappy).
Essence Scatter is worse than Mana Leak imo. Otherwise, we can just use Push/Terminate on the creature. Having conditional removal as narrow as JUST creatures is not where a control deck in this meta wants to be. The advantage of countersquall is that it hits pesky PW, opponents removal (to protect our few win-cons and Lingering Souls type cards.
It is nice to bring up cards, but the cards you brought up literally do the exact opposite of we want, which is trading 1 for 1 early and getting mad value late game, and having removal/counters that aren't as narrow.
Side topic, finally able to afford Damnation!
Singing-Bell was just an idea as an alternative psuedo lock down. Perhaps not usuable in this shell. It will defintely get some wierd looks when it's played. No one will bring in enchantment removal either.
Take into custody same as above except maybe better reserved for a delver shell. Just tossing ideas out there. Sometimes control comes in different forms. You can't play draw go and win and sometimes things slip through and you need ways of handling them differently. Opponents know the decklist and will find ways of baiting our counters to let better answers through.
To me bouncing cheap threats or ones with ETB effects just isn't a good strategy for blue anymore. I'm looking to counter or lock them down effectively and ignore them. Reason I like tap effects is so Tasigur can push damage through instead of waiting for a cryptic. A lot of talk in the current state of Modern thread about how blue is terrible but no one is bringing up possible answers. I thought it might be a good idea to share my own.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
If you had actually brought up a generic hard counter we'd be giving it serious consideration, but you didn't. You brought up a very conditional counter, that handles 1 out of 6 spell types. Negate/Countersquall hits the other 5, making it a far better candidate for the term "generic hard counter", and squall even has a shock attached. Furthermore, Grixis is not lacking in creature removal, which is to say we can deal with resolved creatures with our bolts, terminates and pushes. Enchantments, Artifacts, Planeswalkers are the trickier permanents, hence we want counterspells that can catch those.
Any reason we don't want to just terminate the creature? I can't even see this being better against Wurmcoil engine, since they will have little problem paying 6 if they could cast it in the first place. It also does nothing against value creatures like Dark Confidant and Young Pyro.
This card is a tempo card, but it does so much worse than Vapor Snag. If you want this sort of effect, at least make them pay the casting cost of the creature again. Take Into Custody is not even limited playable.
If this was a mono blue thread you'd be making some sense. It isn't however, and your posts do look a little ridiculous. We're killing things dead with Fatal Pushes, Terminates and Bolts, and you're suggesting tap spells that I wouldn't put in a sealed or draft deck.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
GR breach isn't common around here but I did beat it at the WMCQ I played in September, don't know it much though.
there are a few GR titanshift decks around here and I'm starting to feel better about it, as I managed to get 2 match wins vs it in the past week, one of them I know is solid with the deck. I understand you need to have enough permission and a bit of a clock helps.
I just wanna get other opinions on the match
I think he is fine but 5 cmc is pretty high. He is a decent threat and can cast those AV from the yard but I think some people have tried him then took him out? If he is working for you then great! If you can add some feedback about playing them it would also be helpful. My thoughts are a 4/4 with menace and reusing a terminate, fatal push, KCommand or AV is fantastic but the body might not be good enough that late in the game. He also taps you out while this style of deck plays re actively with cheap threats. Maybe just play as a 1 of?
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I've considered it but having to pay 5 mana is kinda steep for my liking. I like Tasigur because I can delve and keep up mana for protection
Thoughtseize/inquisition is the build I play but it's a completely different deck. That version of grixis plays 3-4 copies of liliana of the veil instead of playing cryptic command and typically only plays 0-3 counterspells. It plays at sorcery speed rather than instant speed.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
4x Serum Visions
3x Ancestral Vision
2x Fatal Push
2x Spell Snare
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Negate
1x Remand
2x Terminate
3x Kolaghan's Command
3x Cryptic Command
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1x Gurmag Angler
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Island
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
2x Steam Vents
1x Watery Grave
1x Blood Crypt
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Drowned Catacomb
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Olivia Voldaren
1x Thoughtseize
1x Dispel
2x Collective Brutality
1x Slay
1x Torrential Gearhulk
1x Anger of the Gods
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Vendilion Clique
2x Fulminator Mage
1x Vandalblast
I've long been under the presumption that A Vision is kinda' average in this deck. I'm at 3 but I'm always wondering if I just want two. It requires a lot of time and resources to let yourself get behind and often times it makes your reactive spells unplayable when you draw them after falling behind for a few turns.
Olivia Voldaren looks out of place but it's my best card vs. Bant Eldrazi. A mix of Clique and Fulminator are the tron predators -- you don't want a bunch of either since they become redundant after the 2nd.
Slay is good vs. the uptick in Goyf decks. It's probably not necessary but it is a lot of fun. I like cantrips.
Vandalblast is redundant.
Remand is very good right now and probably under played. I'm happy with access to one copy. If you recall, they were in Chapin's original list and its insane in Snap MUs, Primetime decks, and other clunk fests.
Logic Knot is basically playable only due to *quirk* players. It's not a fundamentally good card and doesn't allow you to run multiple copies. It gets hit by the same hate that makes snap worse and also makes your snaps incidentally worse since you're often in a spot where you have to delve snapcaster "options". I keep seeing it in lists and all I can say is that you should do you but don't try and convince others that L.Knot is a playable card. The first copy is barely playable. It's sort of like Shadow of Doubt right now. I play Shadow of Doubt in grixis all the time. Should you and others play it? Probably not unless your meta is Traversing and Primetiming.
I like Fatal Push. Somewhere between 2 and 3 is right. Bolt is still a 4x.
Gearhulk is cool. You really don't need more *grind* but I'm just doing the whole "treat yo'self" thing. So it's there for tonight.
While I agree with some of what you posted I disagree with quite a bit as well. Ancestral visions is a big part of what helps this deck grind and allows it to play so much one for one removal. I agree multiples hurt especially late game but running any less than 4 is a mistake imo since it's our strongest turn 1 play for a lot of matchups.
As for sideboarding: What is Olivia doing for you in the bant eldrazi matchups? I don't really see how she would be useful, It's 7 mana to start controlling creatures and you even have to discard 2 cards if you want to use it on smasher so wouldn't more removal just be better? And on that note, I don't see the point in Slay over fatal push especially vs goyf decks as you mentioned. Is 2 extra mana over push worth cycling? The Thoughtseize also seems really out of place, especially as a 1 of, Doesn't seem like it would come up very often and if it does its even less likely to be in your opening hand where it's most effective.
Good luck regardless
The deck "ground" before AV got unbanned.
You crushed Jund and similar decks regardless.
She gets big and you should reread Smasher. You don't have to steal anything although having mana to help bolt kill TKS and company is cool. Having creatures vs Eldrazi is more important than killing all their stuff. Killing all their stuff is a dangerous proposition unless you're on the Damnation plan.
2 for 1s are more important than 1 for 1s.
When decks are resilient to 1-for-1s, you also need a way to keep parity. The deck could already Fatal Push all day every day even before Fatal Push. Goyf?
Slay is about killing Primetimes, Goyfs, Flayers, everything out of Abzan Coco, Elves...
This is similar to why Electrolyze is often better than bolt. It's obviously not as efficient however the ability to replace itself cannot be undervalued.
1-of Thoughtseize issue? I want to draw exactly one Thoughtseize in the games where it matters. Not 3. Not 2. 1.
With Scour and Serum Visions, you see so much of your deck that you can find Thoughtseize easily.
And electrolyze is not better than bolt at all. There's at reason almost no decks run electrolyze versus every deck that's running red having the full playset of bolts. It all comes down to mana efficiency and for 3 mana electrolyze doesn't really do enough especially in this meta. If you have a bunch of x/1s running around then maybe but that's meta specific not overall.
Edit: as for Thoughtseize, discard is at its strongest in the first few turns and an abysmal top deck later on. Doesn't matter if you can cycle through and guarantee you find it by turn 5 or 6 since by then it's usually too late to grab what you wanted to stop
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers: