I'm getting more and more inclined to going back to the Mortarpods. I just don't feel I've tested the Spell Snares enough yet. :/ I agree very much about your analysis of "in what meta is this good"! Interesting boarding in Spreading Seas vs Grixis.
EDIT: I'm actually starting to reconsider Mana Leak in the deck, too... We're playing Ghost Quarters + Paths and it just doesn't mesh that well with Leaks, beyond that we also like to go late and late the Leaks are usually dead too. Sure, they're great the times I have them early vs decks where they're good, but yeah...
Spreading seas is amazing and if we had any room, I'd be mainboarding them. I don't know if it's always the right card to bring in, but I'll be sideboarding it A LOT more, especially versus jund/junk/grixis. I'm not a super fan of Mana Leak either but we really don't have any better choices. Condescend could be... OK, punishes our opponents for trying to curve out.
Great report. Only thing I have to say is WTF kind of meta you have. SO many unusual decks. Funny that when you faced the more common decks, you won as well. It happens I guess.
I'd also like to comment on Lone Missionary. He isn't great in every matchup but if you happen to face burn or aggro decks, he is a must draw. There really isn't anything better for that slot. Don't underestimate his 2/1 beat powers (much like snapcaster, it can get there). If you are in a matchup where you don't need them, consider sideboarding them out for other creatures? Unfortunately he is too vital in certain matchups to cut, or I'd be with you that he could go.
There were 139 people so a few off-the-wall odd decks should be expected, but playing against 3 of them really sucked. Thinking back on it, I probably should have scooped my first match to avoid playing against the turn/tron players, they were playing right next to me and also drew.
I like lone missionary a lot. I've gone from 3 life to 10-15 within a turn or two once the engine was online more than a few times. I kind of want to cut one for another spellbomb though, with two in the sideboard. I'll try it out this Thursday, alongside -1 snapcaster +1 gifts and let you guys know how it goes.
Look forward to the results man. Unfortunately I am not playing Magic this week because I am entrenched into baseball playoffs during the week and then I am writing and shooting a short film this weekend. Should be back to the grindstone next week though (I typically play in 4 tournaments a week Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday).
I'm getting more and more inclined to going back to the Mortarpods. I just don't feel I've tested the Spell Snares enough yet. :/ I agree very much about your analysis of "in what meta is this good"! Interesting boarding in Spreading Seas vs Grixis.
EDIT: I'm actually starting to reconsider Mana Leak in the deck, too... We're playing Ghost Quarters + Paths and it just doesn't mesh that well with Leaks, beyond that we also like to go late and late the Leaks are usually dead too. Sure, they're great the times I have them early vs decks where they're good, but yeah...
Spreading seas is amazing and if we had any room, I'd be mainboarding them. I don't know if it's always the right card to bring in, but I'll be sideboarding it A LOT more, especially versus jund/junk/grixis. I'm not a super fan of Mana Leak either but we really don't have any better choices. Condescend could be... OK, punishes our opponents for trying to curve out.
Yeah I always board Spreading Seas vs Jund/Junk, I mean, it's old Jund hate after all! I just never thought about it vs Grixis because "Grixis is blue!" but I guess it makes some sense if I feel I have enough cards to cut (I want to bring in Negate, Dispel & Stonecloaker too). I think you misunderstand me about Mana Leak although I kinda agree that Condescend could be better. But my point was rather that the reasons to play with CS in this list is because some permanents (or combos) are very hard for us to handle - i.e. Liliana of the Veil, Karn & Ugin but also other crap ofc. I'd much rather have a hard CS that only hits noncreatures than a soft CS that hits both. I mean, what creatures are we so scared of?
Hey all, I've been following this deck for a decent while now, and finally have the time to get into a constructed format after years of being a limited-only player. Apart from looking fun to play, it also seems like a great place to start with slowly acquiring staples. I'm starting with a list very close to Silberman's (what with the light-moderate amount of counterspells) and just noticed that I've got a 61 card deck. I'm here to ask for a cut suggestion from some of you who have played the deck more than I have. To me, it seems like the card that should be cut is one of these four:
Hey all, I've been following this deck for a decent while now, and finally have the time to get into a constructed format after years of being a limited-only player. Apart from looking fun to play, it also seems like a great place to start with slowly acquiring staples. I'm starting with a list very close to Silberman's (what with the light-moderate amount of counterspells) and just noticed that I've got a 61 card deck. I'm here to ask for a cut suggestion from some of you who have played the deck more than I have. To me, it seems like the card that should be cut is one of these four:
I'd love to hear your responses, and I can't wait to get this thing finished and into my LGS!
I could see you cutting a 2 drop. If you want to hold up Leaks, I'd let go of one Pod. They're both more somewhat situational answers that you don't really want to top deck late (in a lot of cases).
You're not really maximizing Gifts either, I think it could be reasonable to either cut it or cut one of your big threats (as Gifts can find your fatties once Emeria/Shepherd are on).
I could see you cutting a 2 drop. If you want to hold up Leaks, I'd let go of one Pod. They're both more somewhat situational answers that you don't really want to top deck late (in a lot of cases).
You're not really maximizing Gifts either, I think it could be reasonable to either cut it or cut one of your big threats (as Gifts can find your fatties once Emeria/Shepherd are on).
Ooh, I really like the idea of cutting Gifts here. The more I think about it, the more I realize how weak it can be in this setup when it comes to finding threats. It would still be fine to get answers, but the deck seems to have a pretty solid number of those already.
I would cut the 2nd Mortarpod or the 2nd Supreme Verdict (3 Wraths maindeck seems a lot unless your meta calls for it).
Really?
I've been carrying 3 Verdicts main (+1 in the board) for a while now and I'm quite happy with them (I only play online). I often find myself aggressively digging for them (or for lands to cast them) in the early game. The 3rd is usually useless, but if I live to draw the third wipe, it's because the first two did their work.
In the matchups in which Verdicts are dead... I don't think shaving one for whatever else I would play in it's place will turn the tides often enough.
IMO, if you're in a meta in which Verdict is bad, it's probably a bad meta for UW Titan.
I guess I see your point, but I've yet to feel the need for a third. Guess it's a meta call. I do think the deck is good against other fields than the aggressive one, though.
So this is what I have been playing with for a while. It seems to do alright but I have noticed that not many other people here run flickerwisp, which I have found to be of great help bringing back sea gate oracle.
played this in Tuesday night modern. It was only 3 rounds and I ended up going 1-1-1. Was unlucky that I had to play 2 of my friends who were on amulet and utron.
Round 1 was vs my friend playing amulet. He quickly got a titan out game 1 and beat me. Game 2 I kept a hand with 2 ghost quarters, path, and other stuff. the ghost quarters kept him from doing anything while I chipped him with my team. Game 3 I drew into ghost quarter and early dudes but was unable to stop him from killing me with a titan.
Round 2 was vs a small zoo list. While game 1 took 25ish mins to finish the game itself was fairly easy as his creatures couldn't get through the wall of omens I played and I drew enough removal + gidean that I only went as low as 7 life. Eventually He ran out of creatures and cards in hand while I drew sun titan to guarantee the victory. Game 2 was much faster as I drew well and took control of the game early on. He scooped to a turn 7 sun titan targeting flickerwisp.
Round 3 was vs monou tron.I was on the play with a hand that had ghost quarters. I kept him from doing any big plays while I attacked with flickerwisp and pilgrims eye. Game 2 Took a while as we were both fighting over control of the game. Eventually I made some misplays that cost me the game. Game 3 was much like 2 minus the misplays but we went to time when he started taking conmtrol of the match and I played for a draw as he was too far ahead and there was no way for me to do 19 damage in one go. I drew the game but let him have the win as otherwise neither of us were going to get store credit and I don't need $5 in store credit as much as he does as he is trying to get playsets of tarns and snaps eventually.
The tron and amulet match ups makes me wish I had crucible of worlds somewhere in the 75. It also makes me want to try a bant version of the deck.
Just a (few) words from someone who has been playing the deck for a while now (basically a break-down of the deck I run and why):
Firstly, creatures: We run three lands (Emeria, The Sky Ruin) that come into play tapped in a deck that already struggles to be a threat in the early game. As mentioned previously in this thread our main goal is to stay alive until a SunTit hits the field (and hopefully after that as well). Unfortunately we cannot afford to run sub-optimal alternatives of our cards, for example:
Sea Gate Oracle where Court Hussar digs 1 card deeper, has vigilance and can go to the graveyard immediately if you need it there.
Aven Riftwatcher where Lone Missionary gives you 2 more life when it hits the field for 1 less mana and is a legal target for our Ojutai's Command.
No Flickerwisps? NO Flickerwips because they are slow and feels like we're trying Ghostway shenanigans that only take effect on our end step. More reasons later.
A total of 16 creatures seems to be the optimal number for this deck.
On to instants: Cutting Flickerwisps for more 1 cmc instants greatly improves our early game. Our 8 x 1cmc and 6 x 2cmc instant spells provide a nice curve that allows for good early-game control. Keeping one Hallowed Fountain or Prairie Stream untapped where possible, it is a great bluff and can buy you more time. Only 1 Ojutai's Command? I find that the extra 1cmc spells are easier to pilot until SunTit hits but then again recurring Lone Missionary for 8 life and drawing a card at instant speed is almost like having SunTit on board 2 turns early.
It feels like 13 to 15 instants are optimal for our purposes. Chop and change the instant spells to fit your meta. I run the following:
We have artifacts? Aether Spellbomb is a utility spell that is key to this deck. Great for early-game bouncing creatures and late-game (recurring) card draw. Spellbomb's 1cmc fits our early game curve and helps to buy more time. Mortarpod feels (and is) terrible for my play style and will be replaced when something better comes along. The only reason, ONLY REASON, I play Mortarpod is because of that ONE game it won me in almost 50 matchups. To sac creatures for that last 2 points of damage is like cheating in the exams and getting caught but they take pity on you and let you go because you are poor and need the marks to continue with your already sad life and you feel even more ashamed for it. I side it out for Surgical Extraction almost always.
Sorceries: Not much to say here. Side out/in when needed. It feels like the best answer to those creatures that sneaked past your early-game counterspells, I play it mostly on turn 5 with one mana up for Dispel/Snare (or bluffing). Once you start casting Supreme Verdict you must be sure to follow up with a SunTit the next turn (or two).
Our enchantment Detention Sphere are a bit weaker without Flickerwisp but that does not mean they lose their abilities. Detention Sphere is our Path to Exile for multiple non-lands.
Our lands: Prairie Stream is the best addition to this deck from BFZ, a Hallowed Fountain that doesn't shock and almost always comes into play untapped. Absolute bliss. With our lower curve we can reduced the lands to 23. Drawing more than one Emeria in our first few turns feels like using Evolving Wilds instead of Flooded Strands. As mentioned earlier, it is a flaw we have to live with and therefore cannot compromise on the rest of our deck.
The sideboard is totally geared for my meta and play style. Ghost Quarter on their t1 fetchland forcing them to crack it in response only to be Surgically Extracted is a great play in this build (and stopped many t2 Tasigurs in my bad matchups). We have enough spells for the hurt we caused to become apparent later on. Casting Silence at the beginning of their upkeep is a great way to shut up Snapcaster for one round and many times it baits a counterspell, it buys time and does nothing else. Suspension Field because I hate Celestial Collonade and it hurts them more than us most of the time. Spreading Seas because it draws cards, can be recurred with SunTit and I hate Tron. Phantasmal Image on an opponent's mana dork to get out of being mana screwed saved me big time.
That is my build and I'm sticking with it for now. Thanks to everyone for this amazing input on this Primer. Hopefully we will push this deck up to Tier 1 someday.
While I do agree with you that Sea Gate Oracle is just worse than Court Hussar and the question silas should ask himself is not "why is no one running Flickerwisp?" (they are) but rather "why am I running Sea Gate Oracle?" I do _not_ agree with you in a lot of your other assumptions.
- People (not all, but many) have cut down from 4 ST's.
- Silence does nothing.
- Spell Snare is better in multiples.
- Vapor Snag, and to some degree Remand, goes totally against how you started your post about the deck being about staying alive not pressuring early. Vapor Snag is a tempoplay, it sucks here. Remand is in between and I actually like it in the deck _if you play Flickerwisp_ so you have some early damage to beat down with at the same time.
- You're the first person I've seen cut an Aether Spellbomb, these are so so good.
- Randomly boarding in Surgical "almost always" and hitting the first fetch you see isn't good.
Hey all, I've been following this deck for a decent while now, and finally have the time to get into a constructed format after years of being a limited-only player. Apart from looking fun to play, it also seems like a great place to start with slowly acquiring staples. I'm starting with a list very close to Silberman's (what with the light-moderate amount of counterspells) and just noticed that I've got a 61 card deck. I'm here to ask for a cut suggestion from some of you who have played the deck more than I have. To me, it seems like the card that should be cut is one of these four:
I'd love to hear your responses, and I can't wait to get this thing finished and into my LGS!
I could see you cutting a 2 drop. If you want to hold up Leaks, I'd let go of one Pod. They're both more somewhat situational answers that you don't really want to top deck late (in a lot of cases).
You're not really maximizing Gifts either, I think it could be reasonable to either cut it or cut one of your big threats (as Gifts can find your fatties once Emeria/Shepherd are on).
I agree with your assessment. What I would do is cut 1 Sun Titan and then replace the 2nd Mortar Pod with a Batterskull. That thing is an absolute house.
While I do agree with you that Sea Gate Oracle is just worse than Court Hussar and the question silas should ask himself is not "why is no one running Flickerwisp?" (they are) but rather "why am I running Sea Gate Oracle?" I do _not_ agree with you in a lot of your other assumptions.
- People (not all, but many) have cut down from 4 ST's.
- Silence does nothing.
- Spell Snare is better in multiples.
- Vapor Snag, and to some degree Remand, goes totally against how you started your post about the deck being about staying alive not pressuring early. Vapor Snag is a tempoplay, it sucks here. Remand is in between and I actually like it in the deck _if you play Flickerwisp_ so you have some early damage to beat down with at the same time.
- You're the first person I've seen cut an Aether Spellbomb, these are so so good.
- Randomly boarding in Surgical "almost always" and hitting the first fetch you see isn't good.
All of this as well. Sea-Gate Oracle is strictly worse than Court Hussar in our deck. Flickerwisp is good for tapout strategies but not Counter control like you (and I) are running. I haven't tested Spell Snare (though I know it can be good). Silence is terrible. Vapor Snag and to a lesser degree Remand are not what this deck wants to be doing. Vapor Snag is better in a Geist list where you need to bounce their creatures to hand, ping them for damage and then swing in for more damage. We do not need it here. I go back and forth on remand because it is a cantrip. The problem is we want permanent answers for anything worth countering and Remand just doesn't offer that. Lastly, Mortar Pod. It isn't just for getting the last couple ticks of damage (which, yes I have done as well and it feels great). It is fantastic in a lot of matchups for killing x/1s (As a list of creatures it can kill: Unflipped Delver, Snapcaster, Clique, All used mana dorks(Elves, BoP, Noble), Heritage Druid, Tokens and more). It also can be equiped to a Wall of Omens to make it brick a Tasigur, 4/5 Goyf, or Rhino. If you are using Venser at all he also becomes a reoccuring blocker. Additionally, it can help prevent lifelink (you equip it to your dude, they swing, you block, sacrifice before damage and ping them).
While I do agree with you that Sea Gate Oracle is just worse than Court Hussar and the question silas should ask himself is not "why is no one running Flickerwisp?" (they are) but rather "why am I running Sea Gate Oracle?"
The reason I elected to keep Oracle over Hussar is staying power and synergy with flickerwisp. Oracle gets to stick around when being brought back with sun titan and emeria and that sticking around means I can run flickerwisp to bounce him, which is something that would kill Hussar. I can start getting multiple uses out of a single card on turn 3, as opposed to waiting until 6 or 7 for ST or emeria. Afterwards, flickerwisp gets to stick around as a 3/1 flier, something a surprising number of players don't immediately answer and I can usually get an attack or two in before it dies.
To shoot myself in the foot with the staying power argument, I run Aven Riftwatcher which gives 2 life and then another 2 on a clock. It works well with flickerwisp and is another flier for extra damage.
Now those are just my reasons for running what I do. My sample size is pretty small so I'm still looking for deck advice.
While I do agree with you that Sea Gate Oracle is just worse than Court Hussar and the question silas should ask himself is not "why is no one running Flickerwisp?" (they are) but rather "why am I running Sea Gate Oracle?"
The reason I elected to keep Oracle over Hussar is staying power and synergy with flickerwisp. Oracle gets to stick around when being brought back with sun titan and emeria and that sticking around means I can run flickerwisp to bounce him, which is something that would kill Hussar. I can start getting multiple uses out of a single card on turn 3, as opposed to waiting until 6 or 7 for ST or emeria. Afterwards, flickerwisp gets to stick around as a 3/1 flier, something a surprising number of players don't immediately answer and I can usually get an attack or two in before it dies.
To shoot myself in the foot with the staying power argument, I run Aven Riftwatcher which gives 2 life and then another 2 on a clock. It works well with flickerwisp and is another flier for extra damage.
Now those are just my reasons for running what I do. My sample size is pretty small so I'm still looking for deck advice.
The main thing is that while you may benefit slightly from the early game staying power of Oracle, Hussar has the ability to come back multiple times a turn late game when you need to refill your hand the most. I don't think Riftwatcher is what you want to be doing when Lone Missionary will be more consistent. Being able to be recurred from Ojutai's command is the other major selling point.
Monastery Siege: The draw-discard lets us hit our land drops and fills our graveyard with fodder for when we finally have an active Emeria or Sun Titan. Also lets us find answers much quicker, like a path for a Scooze or a verdict. The targeting tax is OK for things like burn but I feel we're already favored there. Also 3 CMC so it can be recurred with Sun Titan.
Lightform: 3 CMC, "draw and put a 2/2, flying, lifelinker into play". Recurrable with Sun Titan. While writing this I realized that the unmorphing doesn't trigger ETB so I don't think is very good anymore, haha, but some thoughts would still be nice.
Main thing I'm interested in is Siege, probably as a 1 or 2 of, maybe 1-1 split main/side. I'm not sure what matchups it shores up, maybe Grixis? They 2-for-1 us so many times, some way to find what we need at that moment than just living off the top of our deck could be nice.
Monastery Siege: The draw-discard lets us hit our land drops and fills our graveyard with fodder for when we finally have an active Emeria or Sun Titan. Also lets us find answers much quicker, like a path for a Scooze or a verdict. The targeting tax is OK for things like burn but I feel we're already favored there. Also 3 CMC so it can be recurred with Sun Titan.
Lightform: 3 CMC, "draw and put a 2/2, flying, lifelinker into play". Recurrable with Sun Titan. While writing this I realized that the unmorphing doesn't trigger ETB so I don't think is very good anymore, haha, but some thoughts would still be nice.
Main thing I'm interested in is Siege, probably as a 1 or 2 of, maybe 1-1 split main/side. I'm not sure what matchups it shores up, maybe Grixis? They 2-for-1 us so many times, some way to find what we need at that moment than just living off the top of our deck could be nice.
I do really like Siege but I almost think Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is better because he can be recurred via Ojutai's Command as well as all his extra uses as a planeswalker.
Lightform would actually be pretty interesting in the more tapout build with Flickerwisps. I wonder if you'd include a Mastery of the Unseen as well to give you a constant source of card advantage when you have excess mana to spend.
While I do agree with you that Sea Gate Oracle is just worse than Court Hussar and the question silas should ask himself is not "why is no one running Flickerwisp?" (they are) but rather "why am I running Sea Gate Oracle?"
The reason I elected to keep Oracle over Hussar is staying power and synergy with flickerwisp. Oracle gets to stick around when being brought back with sun titan and emeria and that sticking around means I can run flickerwisp to bounce him, which is something that would kill Hussar. I can start getting multiple uses out of a single card on turn 3, as opposed to waiting until 6 or 7 for ST or emeria. Afterwards, flickerwisp gets to stick around as a 3/1 flier, something a surprising number of players don't immediately answer and I can usually get an attack or two in before it dies.
To shoot myself in the foot with the staying power argument, I run Aven Riftwatcher which gives 2 life and then another 2 on a clock. It works well with flickerwisp and is another flier for extra damage.
Now those are just my reasons for running what I do. My sample size is pretty small so I'm still looking for deck advice.
The main thing is that while you may benefit slightly from the early game staying power of Oracle, Hussar has the ability to come back multiple times a turn late game when you need to refill your hand the most. I don't think Riftwatcher is what you want to be doing when Lone Missionary will be more consistent. Being able to be recurred from Ojutai's command is the other major selling point.
Would you suggest me straight swapping the oracles for hussars and riftwatchers for missionaries, and keeping the flickerwisps or substituting them for something else?
I would make the swap regardless of if you want to keep the Flickerwisp or not. The Flickerwisps is more of a personal options (the thing has been Flickerwisp vs Counterspells, but I'm more and more thinking it's "Flickerwisp vs Extra CS" and will try running some CS + some FW.)
I would make the swap regardless of if you want to keep the Flickerwisp or not. The Flickerwisps is more of a personal options (the thing has been Flickerwisp vs Counterspells, but I'm more and more thinking it's "Flickerwisp vs Extra CS" and will try running some CS + some FW.)
Yup it's this. Make the swaps. If you are like me and didn't like the way Flickerwisp performed, add in more counter-spells. For me I just got tired of things resolving when I had flickerwisp in hand and nothing of value to flick.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Look forward to the results man. Unfortunately I am not playing Magic this week because I am entrenched into baseball playoffs during the week and then I am writing and shooting a short film this weekend. Should be back to the grindstone next week though (I typically play in 4 tournaments a week Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday).
Yeah I always board Spreading Seas vs Jund/Junk, I mean, it's old Jund hate after all! I just never thought about it vs Grixis because "Grixis is blue!" but I guess it makes some sense if I feel I have enough cards to cut (I want to bring in Negate, Dispel & Stonecloaker too). I think you misunderstand me about Mana Leak although I kinda agree that Condescend could be better. But my point was rather that the reasons to play with CS in this list is because some permanents (or combos) are very hard for us to handle - i.e. Liliana of the Veil, Karn & Ugin but also other crap ofc. I'd much rather have a hard CS that only hits noncreatures than a soft CS that hits both. I mean, what creatures are we so scared of?
-Sun Titan
-Gideon Jura
-Wrath of God
-Ojutai's Command
Here's the whole list
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Prairie Stream
4 Ghost Quarter
7 Plains
2 Island
Creatures (16)
3 Lone Missionary
4 Wall of Omens
3 Court Hussar
2 Pilgrim's Eye
3 Sun Titan
1 Emeria Shepherd
1 Dispel
2 Æther Spellbomb
4 Path to Exile
2 Mana Leak
2 Negate
2 Mortarpod
2 Detention Sphere
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
1 Ojutai's Command
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Gideon Jura
I'd love to hear your responses, and I can't wait to get this thing finished and into my LGS!
I could see you cutting a 2 drop. If you want to hold up Leaks, I'd let go of one Pod. They're both more somewhat situational answers that you don't really want to top deck late (in a lot of cases).
You're not really maximizing Gifts either, I think it could be reasonable to either cut it or cut one of your big threats (as Gifts can find your fatties once Emeria/Shepherd are on).
Ooh, I really like the idea of cutting Gifts here. The more I think about it, the more I realize how weak it can be in this setup when it comes to finding threats. It would still be fine to get answers, but the deck seems to have a pretty solid number of those already.
Really?
I've been carrying 3 Verdicts main (+1 in the board) for a while now and I'm quite happy with them (I only play online). I often find myself aggressively digging for them (or for lands to cast them) in the early game. The 3rd is usually useless, but if I live to draw the third wipe, it's because the first two did their work.
In the matchups in which Verdicts are dead... I don't think shaving one for whatever else I would play in it's place will turn the tides often enough.
IMO, if you're in a meta in which Verdict is bad, it's probably a bad meta for UW Titan.
Sadly I've gotten sick so might not FNM tomorrow.
3 Emeria, The Sky Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
7 Plains
Creatures (16)
2 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Emeria Shepherd
3 Flickerwisp
3 Sea Gate Oracle
3 Sun Titan
4 Wall of Omens
1 Gifts Ungiven
2 Negate
2 Ojutai's Command
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
Enchantment (3)
2 Detention Sphere
1 Oblivion Ring
Artifact (3)
Aether Spellbomb
1 Mortarpod
Planeswalker (1)
1 Venser, the Sojourner
Sorcery (2)
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Celestial Purge
2 Disenchant
2 Meddling Mage
2 Spreading Seas
1 Stonecloaker
2 Stony Silence
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Wrath of God
Any advice you guys feel willing to throw my way?
Round 1 was vs my friend playing amulet. He quickly got a titan out game 1 and beat me. Game 2 I kept a hand with 2 ghost quarters, path, and other stuff. the ghost quarters kept him from doing anything while I chipped him with my team. Game 3 I drew into ghost quarter and early dudes but was unable to stop him from killing me with a titan.
Round 2 was vs a small zoo list. While game 1 took 25ish mins to finish the game itself was fairly easy as his creatures couldn't get through the wall of omens I played and I drew enough removal + gidean that I only went as low as 7 life. Eventually He ran out of creatures and cards in hand while I drew sun titan to guarantee the victory. Game 2 was much faster as I drew well and took control of the game early on. He scooped to a turn 7 sun titan targeting flickerwisp.
Round 3 was vs monou tron.I was on the play with a hand that had ghost quarters. I kept him from doing any big plays while I attacked with flickerwisp and pilgrims eye. Game 2 Took a while as we were both fighting over control of the game. Eventually I made some misplays that cost me the game. Game 3 was much like 2 minus the misplays but we went to time when he started taking conmtrol of the match and I played for a draw as he was too far ahead and there was no way for me to do 19 damage in one go. I drew the game but let him have the win as otherwise neither of us were going to get store credit and I don't need $5 in store credit as much as he does as he is trying to get playsets of tarns and snaps eventually.
The tron and amulet match ups makes me wish I had crucible of worlds somewhere in the 75. It also makes me want to try a bant version of the deck.
Firstly, creatures: We run three lands (Emeria, The Sky Ruin) that come into play tapped in a deck that already struggles to be a threat in the early game. As mentioned previously in this thread our main goal is to stay alive until a SunTit hits the field (and hopefully after that as well). Unfortunately we cannot afford to run sub-optimal alternatives of our cards, for example:
Sea Gate Oracle where Court Hussar digs 1 card deeper, has vigilance and can go to the graveyard immediately if you need it there.
Aven Riftwatcher where Lone Missionary gives you 2 more life when it hits the field for 1 less mana and is a legal target for our Ojutai's Command.
No Flickerwisps? NO Flickerwips because they are slow and feels like we're trying Ghostway shenanigans that only take effect on our end step. More reasons later.
A total of 16 creatures seems to be the optimal number for this deck.
Creatures (16)
On to instants: Cutting Flickerwisps for more 1 cmc instants greatly improves our early game. Our 8 x 1cmc and 6 x 2cmc instant spells provide a nice curve that allows for good early-game control. Keeping one Hallowed Fountain or Prairie Stream untapped where possible, it is a great bluff and can buy you more time. Only 1 Ojutai's Command? I find that the extra 1cmc spells are easier to pilot until SunTit hits but then again recurring Lone Missionary for 8 life and drawing a card at instant speed is almost like having SunTit on board 2 turns early.
It feels like 13 to 15 instants are optimal for our purposes. Chop and change the instant spells to fit your meta. I run the following:
Instants (15)
We have artifacts? Aether Spellbomb is a utility spell that is key to this deck. Great for early-game bouncing creatures and late-game (recurring) card draw. Spellbomb's 1cmc fits our early game curve and helps to buy more time. Mortarpod feels (and is) terrible for my play style and will be replaced when something better comes along. The only reason, ONLY REASON, I play Mortarpod is because of that ONE game it won me in almost 50 matchups. To sac creatures for that last 2 points of damage is like cheating in the exams and getting caught but they take pity on you and let you go because you are poor and need the marks to continue with your already sad life and you feel even more ashamed for it. I side it out for Surgical Extraction almost always.
Artifacts (2)
Sorceries: Not much to say here. Side out/in when needed. It feels like the best answer to those creatures that sneaked past your early-game counterspells, I play it mostly on turn 5 with one mana up for Dispel/Snare (or bluffing). Once you start casting Supreme Verdict you must be sure to follow up with a SunTit the next turn (or two).
Sorcery (2)
2 Supreme Verdict
Our enchantment Detention Sphere are a bit weaker without Flickerwisp but that does not mean they lose their abilities. Detention Sphere is our Path to Exile for multiple non-lands.
Enchantments (2)
2 Detention Sphere
Our lands: Prairie Stream is the best addition to this deck from BFZ, a Hallowed Fountain that doesn't shock and almost always comes into play untapped. Absolute bliss. With our lower curve we can reduced the lands to 23. Drawing more than one Emeria in our first few turns feels like using Evolving Wilds instead of Flooded Strands. As mentioned earlier, it is a flaw we have to live with and therefore cannot compromise on the rest of our deck.
Lands (23)
The sideboard is totally geared for my meta and play style. Ghost Quarter on their t1 fetchland forcing them to crack it in response only to be Surgically Extracted is a great play in this build (and stopped many t2 Tasigurs in my bad matchups). We have enough spells for the hurt we caused to become apparent later on. Casting Silence at the beginning of their upkeep is a great way to shut up Snapcaster for one round and many times it baits a counterspell, it buys time and does nothing else. Suspension Field because I hate Celestial Collonade and it hurts them more than us most of the time. Spreading Seas because it draws cards, can be recurred with SunTit and I hate Tron. Phantasmal Image on an opponent's mana dork to get out of being mana screwed saved me big time.
Sideboard (15)
That is my build and I'm sticking with it for now. Thanks to everyone for this amazing input on this Primer. Hopefully we will push this deck up to Tier 1 someday.
- People (not all, but many) have cut down from 4 ST's.
- Silence does nothing.
- Spell Snare is better in multiples.
- Vapor Snag, and to some degree Remand, goes totally against how you started your post about the deck being about staying alive not pressuring early. Vapor Snag is a tempoplay, it sucks here. Remand is in between and I actually like it in the deck _if you play Flickerwisp_ so you have some early damage to beat down with at the same time.
- You're the first person I've seen cut an Aether Spellbomb, these are so so good.
- Randomly boarding in Surgical "almost always" and hitting the first fetch you see isn't good.
I agree with your assessment. What I would do is cut 1 Sun Titan and then replace the 2nd Mortar Pod with a Batterskull. That thing is an absolute house.
All of this as well. Sea-Gate Oracle is strictly worse than Court Hussar in our deck. Flickerwisp is good for tapout strategies but not Counter control like you (and I) are running. I haven't tested Spell Snare (though I know it can be good). Silence is terrible. Vapor Snag and to a lesser degree Remand are not what this deck wants to be doing. Vapor Snag is better in a Geist list where you need to bounce their creatures to hand, ping them for damage and then swing in for more damage. We do not need it here. I go back and forth on remand because it is a cantrip. The problem is we want permanent answers for anything worth countering and Remand just doesn't offer that. Lastly, Mortar Pod. It isn't just for getting the last couple ticks of damage (which, yes I have done as well and it feels great). It is fantastic in a lot of matchups for killing x/1s (As a list of creatures it can kill: Unflipped Delver, Snapcaster, Clique, All used mana dorks(Elves, BoP, Noble), Heritage Druid, Tokens and more). It also can be equiped to a Wall of Omens to make it brick a Tasigur, 4/5 Goyf, or Rhino. If you are using Venser at all he also becomes a reoccuring blocker. Additionally, it can help prevent lifelink (you equip it to your dude, they swing, you block, sacrifice before damage and ping them).
The reason I elected to keep Oracle over Hussar is staying power and synergy with flickerwisp. Oracle gets to stick around when being brought back with sun titan and emeria and that sticking around means I can run flickerwisp to bounce him, which is something that would kill Hussar. I can start getting multiple uses out of a single card on turn 3, as opposed to waiting until 6 or 7 for ST or emeria. Afterwards, flickerwisp gets to stick around as a 3/1 flier, something a surprising number of players don't immediately answer and I can usually get an attack or two in before it dies.
To shoot myself in the foot with the staying power argument, I run Aven Riftwatcher which gives 2 life and then another 2 on a clock. It works well with flickerwisp and is another flier for extra damage.
Now those are just my reasons for running what I do. My sample size is pretty small so I'm still looking for deck advice.
The main thing is that while you may benefit slightly from the early game staying power of Oracle, Hussar has the ability to come back multiple times a turn late game when you need to refill your hand the most. I don't think Riftwatcher is what you want to be doing when Lone Missionary will be more consistent. Being able to be recurred from Ojutai's command is the other major selling point.
Monastery Siege: The draw-discard lets us hit our land drops and fills our graveyard with fodder for when we finally have an active Emeria or Sun Titan. Also lets us find answers much quicker, like a path for a Scooze or a verdict. The targeting tax is OK for things like burn but I feel we're already favored there. Also 3 CMC so it can be recurred with Sun Titan.
Lightform: 3 CMC, "draw and put a 2/2, flying, lifelinker into play". Recurrable with Sun Titan. While writing this I realized that the unmorphing doesn't trigger ETB so I don't think is very good anymore, haha, but some thoughts would still be nice.
Main thing I'm interested in is Siege, probably as a 1 or 2 of, maybe 1-1 split main/side. I'm not sure what matchups it shores up, maybe Grixis? They 2-for-1 us so many times, some way to find what we need at that moment than just living off the top of our deck could be nice.
I do really like Siege but I almost think Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is better because he can be recurred via Ojutai's Command as well as all his extra uses as a planeswalker.
Lightform would actually be pretty interesting in the more tapout build with Flickerwisps. I wonder if you'd include a Mastery of the Unseen as well to give you a constant source of card advantage when you have excess mana to spend.
Would you suggest me straight swapping the oracles for hussars and riftwatchers for missionaries, and keeping the flickerwisps or substituting them for something else?
Yup it's this. Make the swaps. If you are like me and didn't like the way Flickerwisp performed, add in more counter-spells. For me I just got tired of things resolving when I had flickerwisp in hand and nothing of value to flick.