Same... I have definitely had the complete opposite experience with the grixis manabase and found the fetch / shock interaction to be much worse than Night's Whipser and it was certainly never faster for me, but maybe I'm missing something.
This is my current list that I am looking to take to the columbus open this weekend. First thing, am I in the right forum for this? I dont see many people playing the same deck, it seems like this forum has several very similar decks all being talked about at once. Second, any critiques on my list and/or sideboard? I'd love to have some feedback!
I went back and re-read my statements, and I think I might have been too zealous with the speed of Grixis. More appropriately, I would say Grixis Shoal is the same speed as R/B Shoal, but the consistency goes up. The percentage of T2 kills remains the same, as none of the set pieces for a T2 win are absent from either build. The different between cantrips vs. Night's Whisper to setup a T3 kill is nominal at best, but possibly a hair faster with the blue mana base due to the card quality (vs quantity with Whisper). Additionally, blue cantrips really keep the deck live when your hand has been destroyed with Jund-like black discard spells.
Regarding mana base, I did a few new things. I tossed the temples. I often found that the element of game 1 surprise outweighed the advantage I received from the scry effect. When I played in LA earlier this year, almost everyone put me on Grishoalbrand when I dropped a temple. As such, my opponent would play accordingly. In GP Dallas, I transitioned to adding an additional basic and two of the dual match lands (or whatever they are called). This allowed me to disguise the deck as a Grixis control deck in game 1s where I did not have the nut draw. I feel it paid dividends, and I won't be going back to temples.
My deck was posted by Wizards as part of the top 64. I'm number 60. I'll try to post a game-by-game write up when I find a chunk of time.
Also, I plan on playing this deck at the next modern GP (Vancouver?), and I would love to hear input on sideboard changes.
This is my current list that I am looking to take to the columbus open this weekend. First thing, am I in the right forum for this? I dont see many people playing the same deck, it seems like this forum has several very similar decks all being talked about at once. Second, any critiques on my list and/or sideboard? I'd love to have some feedback!
Yes, this is the correct forum and the correct thread for this deck.
This thread should discuss all BRx Griselbrand combo decks in Modern and since the classic non Fury/Spike version is also a "Griselbrand" combo deck, it belongs here ^^
As for feedback (I have made some limited testing in the last couple of months with that version) I cannot offer much but I do like the third Collective Brutality over the 4th Izzet Charm. Though, I guess this is mainly personal preference, since I like the discard more than the conditional counter.
As for SB, Smelt is never the correct pick. If you want something along this line play Shattering Spree or Vandalblast, both which are way better than Smelt.
Furthermore, I would switch the two Pyroclasm into 2 Anger of the Gods, which are currently better than the Pyroclasm (great card vs Dredge and all the aggro decks). Yes, it is kinda worse vs Affinity (where you kinda want the sweeper on turn 2) but since you run both Bolt and Brutality the downside is not as huge as it may seem.
For the BGx match-up both 4 Leylines and 2 Amulets are to much, you do not have enough slots to cut for these cards. Sure, you will usually trim 1 Goryo's, 1 Izzet Charm, 1 Faithless Looting but than, which 3 cards do you want to cut for the remaining SB cards?
Also, if you have the time, I would make a SB plan for each of the Tier 1/2 decks currently and see, if you have some dead cards or not in your SB or MD which you always board out or never in. If you find those cards, kick them. This is probably the fastest way to find a good SB.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I went back and re-read my statements, and I think I might have been too zealous with the speed of Grixis. More appropriately, I would say Grixis Shoal is the same speed as R/B Shoal, but the consistency goes up. The percentage of T2 kills remains the same, as none of the set pieces for a T2 win are absent from either build. The different between cantrips vs. Night's Whisper to setup a T3 kill is nominal at best, but possibly a hair faster with the blue mana base due to the card quality (vs quantity with Whisper). Additionally, blue cantrips really keep the deck live when your hand has been destroyed with Jund-like black discard spells.
Regarding mana base, I did a few new things. I tossed the temples. I often found that the element of game 1 surprise outweighed the advantage I received from the scry effect. When I played in LA earlier this year, almost everyone put me on Grishoalbrand when I dropped a temple. As such, my opponent would play accordingly. In GP Dallas, I transitioned to adding an additional basic and two of the dual match lands (or whatever they are called). This allowed me to disguise the deck as a Grixis control deck in game 1s where I did not have the nut draw. I feel it paid dividends, and I won't be going back to temples.
My deck was posted by Wizards as part of the top 64. I'm number 60. I'll try to post a game-by-game write up when I find a chunk of time.
Also, I plan on playing this deck at the next modern GP (Vancouver?), and I would love to hear input on sideboard changes.
Regarding raw Speed, both Grixis and BR are roughly at the same level (since the combo elements did not change between either versions). However, the big difference is the starting life and the amount of draw 7 you can pull of.
When playing Grixis I noticed, that on average I had 0.6 activations less per combo attempt, which is huge when you calc it up. That's why I have to disagree with you general statement, that Grixis is more consistent. I would rather formulate it this way:
"Grixis gets the combo together more consistent but combos worse."
Also, Night's Whisper is exactly for the BGx match-ups. It refuels your hand after some discard spells hit you and also makes Liliana worse vs us, which is important for the TTB Wurm plan. I tested this way to much and I always went back to Night's Whisper, due to the awkwardness of Sleight of Hands (Serum Visions is a "good" card).
The Temple information is a legit concern, but for me it rarely came up so far. However, the Temples are so good in the BR version, since it gives you another Turn 1 play and playing less than 8 turn 1 plays results into a way to big tempo loss.
As for the Grixis Manabase, Temples cannot get supported properly. I toyed around with them for a way to long time in the Grixis version, but they were just to clunky in there (you already have 10+ turn 1 plays, no need to add lands, which doesn't support this). This is also a reason, why I'm kinda sceptical regarding the check lands. I keep 1 landers all the time with the BR version, since those hands have a ton of gas and I usually can cantrip into the necessary lands. However, when that lone land is a tap land when you run 10+ 1 mana cantrips, this is not really doable.
This set-up gives you the following:
vs Graveyard decks: Surgical, Anger (vs Dredge)
vs Midrange (BGx): 2 Quicksilver Amulet, 2 IoK (if you board them in)
vs Counterspell decks: 2 IoK, 1 Echoing Truth, 1 Quicksilver Amulet
vs Combo decks: 2 IoK (though, we should be faster usually), Bolts (if creature reliant)
vs Infect: 3 Bolts, 1 Sudden Shock, 1 Echoing Truth
vs Aggro: 2 Angers, 3 Bolts
If you want some dedicated Counterspell hate, run Defense Grid over the IoK. I have yet to lose a game, when I resolve Defense Grid vs Counterspell decks.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
As for SB, Smelt is never the correct pick. If you want something along this line play Shattering Spree or Vandalblast, both which are way better than Smelt.
Furthermore, I would switch the two Pyroclasm into 2 Anger of the Gods, which are currently better than the Pyroclasm (great card vs Dredge and all the aggro decks). Yes, it is kinda worse vs Affinity (where you kinda want the sweeper on turn 2) but since you run both Bolt and Brutality the downside is not as huge as it may seem.
For the BGx match-up both 4 Leylines and 2 Amulets are to much, you do not have enough slots to cut for these cards. Sure, you will usually trim 1 Goryo's, 1 Izzet Charm, 1 Faithless Looting but than, which 3 cards do you want to cut for the remaining SB cards?
What makes those cards you suggested better than smelt? For me, smelt has mainly been in the board to fight relics and grafdiggers and I feel as if 1 mana instant is pretty good for that since you can do it at the end of their turn and then proceed to combo. Am I missing something here?
I had been mulling over the idea between the two wipes, debating which to pack and I had chose pyroclasm based on the single red mana. Have you had problems casting anger before? If you think that the manabase can support it then I will certainly try it!
As for the Amulets, I added them to help against graveyard hate in general, not specifically for the BGx match... is this a poor decision?
Cause you won't board in Smelt for Relic and there like but want it for Affinity, or in general artifact heavy based decks.
The anti graveyard cards you usually want to have post board is Echoing Truth, Izzet Charm, Through the Breach and Quicksilver Amulet.
Why? Cause while Smelt deals with stuff like Relic and Cage it does not deal with RiP and Leyline, both cards which see the same amount of play currently. Furthermore, if the opponent has just one Relic it is super easy to play through it, you just have to know how and when to do it.
So, back to why Smelt is garbage.
Lets say, you board in Smelt cause you expect Cage (the only Artifact hate card we really care about). However, instead of Cage, the opponent drops a turn 0 Leyline. Now you are looking super sad at your Smelt which you have in your opening hand.
Another case:
Instead of artefact and enchantment based hate the opponent plays Surgical, Extirpate, Ravenous Trap or only Ooze. Does Smelt deal with any of those cards? No. Does Echoing Truth deal with those cards? Only with Ooze. However, Echoing Truth helps you buying time to find a TTB kill line to ignore the first three interaction spells.
Hence, Smelt is one of the worst cards you could run in the "I want to interact with your hate cards" slot.
Regarding the Sweepers, the question is against what decks you want them. If you just want it vs Affinity, you are better of with running Shatterstorm instead (or anything along this line). If you want to have it against all those aggro decks (including Dredge here) than Pyroclasm doesn't cut it at all since every Aggro deck but RG 8Whack can simply ignore it. Hence, it would be a dead SB card.
Yes, the manabase is a problem with Anger in the SB, however, if you keep this in mind and fetch accordantly you usually shouldn't have a problem casting it turn 3 or even turn 2 of an SSG (rarely needed).
Regarding the Amulets, I mainly bring them in vs BGx since I'm confident enough in my skills to play around any kind of reasonable graveyard hate. However, if you have dead MD cards, you can usually board one in (or even two if you have them).
What you can do is (especially vs slower decks) to cut 1 Goryo's and board both Amulets in since those Amulets are REALLY hard to deal with (IoK and Decay doesn't hit it) and they provide a constant stream of pressure for the opponent as soon as he seems them.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Thanks for the advice and the explanation! I took your advice and played 2 echoing truth and 2 angers instead of 2 smelts and 2 pyroclasm in the side and it was honestly a very strong change! I kept in the Amulets and the Leylines and dont regret that either though. I finished Day 1 at 6-3 and almost made day 2. 7-2 made it in and had there been something like 25 less players in the event then 6-3 would have made it as well. I was a little heart broken tbh lol. Day two I played in a modern challenge and finished at a strong 3-1 and overall I'm very happy with my current deck.
I'm still testing with the BR version of Grishoalbrand, but I'm getting more and more interested in the Grixis version of it and Jim's top 64 finished as well as Kentaro Yamamoto doing awesome with the deck got me interestied in UBR. Here's my usual build :
Not much to say to this version, it feels maybe a bit dated, especially the sideboard. But here's what I've been brewing and coming up with great consistency and resiliency as well :
I'm testing with temples because I'm an Ad Nauseam player and we run temples : for me, it clears some draws and helps with fixing the sequencing in the first few turns. Everything can go off at instant speed on turn 2, but with more consistency I find because of blue cantrips. The manabase is very stable, very clean also. It seems like a weird Grixis manabase, but it works fine and nobody see it coming (because having these two sorts of temples as well as fetches and shocks looks like a homemade brew). The sideboard is good, I like having protection against discard with Leyline and Pact to back up the combo against control or when going off (again, very much inspired by Ad Nauseam). Comments are welcomed!
Has anyone else taken a look at Jerome Bastogne's list for World Magic Cup? I found it interesting he only ran 4 fetches even with other black fetches available. His teammates where on burn and infect so I think it is fair to say that he got to use all the cards he wanted.
Has anyone else taken a look at Jerome Bastogne's list for World Magic Cup? I found it interesting he only ran 4 fetches even with other black fetches available. His teammates where on burn and infect so I think it is fair to say that he got to use all the cards he wanted.
Keeping in mind that the team unified aspect of the deck building would restrict the amount of fetches available, I only run 4-5 fetches in my BR shoal deck. When your plan A is to win by tossing lands at your opponent, fetches start having a very real opportunity cost in a deck that is already pretty greedy on the amount of lands it runs. Also the life isn't insignificant either w/ Griselbrand activations.
Has anyone else taken a look at Jerome Bastogne's list for World Magic Cup? I found it interesting he only ran 4 fetches even with other black fetches available. His teammates where on burn and infect so I think it is fair to say that he got to use all the cards he wanted.
Keeping in mind that the team unified aspect of the deck building would restrict the amount of fetches available, I only run 4-5 fetches in my BR shoal deck. When your plan A is to win by tossing lands at your opponent, fetches start having a very real opportunity cost in a deck that is already pretty greedy on the amount of lands it runs. Also the life isn't insignificant either w/ Griselbrand activations.
Exactly.
Nowadays I only run 4 Fetches because of those exact reasons.
Greetings,
Kathal
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Has anyone else taken a look at Jerome Bastogne's list for World Magic Cup? I found it interesting he only ran 4 fetches even with other black fetches available. His teammates where on burn and infect so I think it is fair to say that he got to use all the cards he wanted.
Keeping in mind that the team unified aspect of the deck building would restrict the amount of fetches available, I only run 4-5 fetches in my BR shoal deck. When your plan A is to win by tossing lands at your opponent, fetches start having a very real opportunity cost in a deck that is already pretty greedy on the amount of lands it runs. Also the life isn't insignificant either w/ Griselbrand activations.
His teammates where running burn and infect which left deltas and marshes available, so he choose to go in with 4 fetchs. The life argument makes a ton of sense sense the difference between something like 7 and 8 life could be the difference in the game.
Has anyone else taken a look at Jerome Bastogne's list for World Magic Cup? I found it interesting he only ran 4 fetches even with other black fetches available. His teammates where on burn and infect so I think it is fair to say that he got to use all the cards he wanted.
i'm also wondering why he didn't use any collective brutality?
been using 2 in my main deck..and it's so good.
Has anyone considered the new card that was spoiled a few days ago "Yahenni's Expertise"
2BB Sorcery (R)
All creatures get -3/-3 until end of turn.
You may cast a card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your hand without paying its mana cost.
Seams to me that using this to cast a fused breaking // entering to reanimate Griselbrand and clear the board could be good.
I'm running the grixis shoal version currently. What is the correct number of manamorphose? I run 2 but feel like I should cut it down to 1 and add something else instead. Any suggestions?
Manamorphose is very meta dependent, but I think 1 is fine. What you run instead is going to be up to you and your list (though replacing it with a cantrip is probably the best in Grixis).
lands
4 scalding tarn
4 polluted delta
1 bloodstained mire
1 darkslick shore
1 blackcleave cliffs
1 island
1 mountain
1 swamp
2 creeping tar pit
2 steam vents
1 watery grave
1 blood crypt
4 griselbrand
4 emrakul, the aeons torn
4 simian spirit guide
spells
4 serum visions
4 sleight of hand
4 izzet charm
4 faithless looting
2 lightning bolt
2 collective brutality
4 goryo's vengeance
4 through the breach
4 leyline of sanctity
2 smelt
2 pyroclasm
2 lightning bolt
2 quicksilver amulet
2 boseiju, who shelters all
1 collective brutality
This is my current list that I am looking to take to the columbus open this weekend. First thing, am I in the right forum for this? I dont see many people playing the same deck, it seems like this forum has several very similar decks all being talked about at once. Second, any critiques on my list and/or sideboard? I'd love to have some feedback!
Regarding mana base, I did a few new things. I tossed the temples. I often found that the element of game 1 surprise outweighed the advantage I received from the scry effect. When I played in LA earlier this year, almost everyone put me on Grishoalbrand when I dropped a temple. As such, my opponent would play accordingly. In GP Dallas, I transitioned to adding an additional basic and two of the dual match lands (or whatever they are called). This allowed me to disguise the deck as a Grixis control deck in game 1s where I did not have the nut draw. I feel it paid dividends, and I won't be going back to temples.
My deck was posted by Wizards as part of the top 64. I'm number 60. I'll try to post a game-by-game write up when I find a chunk of time.
Also, I plan on playing this deck at the next modern GP (Vancouver?), and I would love to hear input on sideboard changes.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpdfw16/9-64-decklists-2016-11-06
Yes, this is the correct forum and the correct thread for this deck.
This thread should discuss all BRx Griselbrand combo decks in Modern and since the classic non Fury/Spike version is also a "Griselbrand" combo deck, it belongs here ^^
As for feedback (I have made some limited testing in the last couple of months with that version) I cannot offer much but I do like the third Collective Brutality over the 4th Izzet Charm. Though, I guess this is mainly personal preference, since I like the discard more than the conditional counter.
As for SB, Smelt is never the correct pick. If you want something along this line play Shattering Spree or Vandalblast, both which are way better than Smelt.
Furthermore, I would switch the two Pyroclasm into 2 Anger of the Gods, which are currently better than the Pyroclasm (great card vs Dredge and all the aggro decks). Yes, it is kinda worse vs Affinity (where you kinda want the sweeper on turn 2) but since you run both Bolt and Brutality the downside is not as huge as it may seem.
For the BGx match-up both 4 Leylines and 2 Amulets are to much, you do not have enough slots to cut for these cards. Sure, you will usually trim 1 Goryo's, 1 Izzet Charm, 1 Faithless Looting but than, which 3 cards do you want to cut for the remaining SB cards?
Also, if you have the time, I would make a SB plan for each of the Tier 1/2 decks currently and see, if you have some dead cards or not in your SB or MD which you always board out or never in. If you find those cards, kick them. This is probably the fastest way to find a good SB.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Regarding raw Speed, both Grixis and BR are roughly at the same level (since the combo elements did not change between either versions). However, the big difference is the starting life and the amount of draw 7 you can pull of.
When playing Grixis I noticed, that on average I had 0.6 activations less per combo attempt, which is huge when you calc it up. That's why I have to disagree with you general statement, that Grixis is more consistent. I would rather formulate it this way:
"Grixis gets the combo together more consistent but combos worse."
Also, Night's Whisper is exactly for the BGx match-ups. It refuels your hand after some discard spells hit you and also makes Liliana worse vs us, which is important for the TTB Wurm plan. I tested this way to much and I always went back to Night's Whisper, due to the awkwardness of Sleight of Hands (Serum Visions is a "good" card).
The Temple information is a legit concern, but for me it rarely came up so far. However, the Temples are so good in the BR version, since it gives you another Turn 1 play and playing less than 8 turn 1 plays results into a way to big tempo loss.
As for the Grixis Manabase, Temples cannot get supported properly. I toyed around with them for a way to long time in the Grixis version, but they were just to clunky in there (you already have 10+ turn 1 plays, no need to add lands, which doesn't support this). This is also a reason, why I'm kinda sceptical regarding the check lands. I keep 1 landers all the time with the BR version, since those hands have a ton of gas and I usually can cantrip into the necessary lands. However, when that lone land is a tap land when you run 10+ 1 mana cantrips, this is not really doable.
As for the SB:
2 Duress
1 Echoing Truth
1 Electrickery
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sudden Shock
I would play something like this:
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Sudden Shock
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Echoing Truth
2 Quicksilver Amulet
This set-up gives you the following:
vs Graveyard decks: Surgical, Anger (vs Dredge)
vs Midrange (BGx): 2 Quicksilver Amulet, 2 IoK (if you board them in)
vs Counterspell decks: 2 IoK, 1 Echoing Truth, 1 Quicksilver Amulet
vs Combo decks: 2 IoK (though, we should be faster usually), Bolts (if creature reliant)
vs Infect: 3 Bolts, 1 Sudden Shock, 1 Echoing Truth
vs Aggro: 2 Angers, 3 Bolts
If you want some dedicated Counterspell hate, run Defense Grid over the IoK. I have yet to lose a game, when I resolve Defense Grid vs Counterspell decks.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
What makes those cards you suggested better than smelt? For me, smelt has mainly been in the board to fight relics and grafdiggers and I feel as if 1 mana instant is pretty good for that since you can do it at the end of their turn and then proceed to combo. Am I missing something here?
I had been mulling over the idea between the two wipes, debating which to pack and I had chose pyroclasm based on the single red mana. Have you had problems casting anger before? If you think that the manabase can support it then I will certainly try it!
As for the Amulets, I added them to help against graveyard hate in general, not specifically for the BGx match... is this a poor decision?
The anti graveyard cards you usually want to have post board is Echoing Truth, Izzet Charm, Through the Breach and Quicksilver Amulet.
Why? Cause while Smelt deals with stuff like Relic and Cage it does not deal with RiP and Leyline, both cards which see the same amount of play currently. Furthermore, if the opponent has just one Relic it is super easy to play through it, you just have to know how and when to do it.
So, back to why Smelt is garbage.
Lets say, you board in Smelt cause you expect Cage (the only Artifact hate card we really care about). However, instead of Cage, the opponent drops a turn 0 Leyline. Now you are looking super sad at your Smelt which you have in your opening hand.
Another case:
Instead of artefact and enchantment based hate the opponent plays Surgical, Extirpate, Ravenous Trap or only Ooze. Does Smelt deal with any of those cards? No. Does Echoing Truth deal with those cards? Only with Ooze. However, Echoing Truth helps you buying time to find a TTB kill line to ignore the first three interaction spells.
Hence, Smelt is one of the worst cards you could run in the "I want to interact with your hate cards" slot.
Regarding the Sweepers, the question is against what decks you want them. If you just want it vs Affinity, you are better of with running Shatterstorm instead (or anything along this line). If you want to have it against all those aggro decks (including Dredge here) than Pyroclasm doesn't cut it at all since every Aggro deck but RG 8Whack can simply ignore it. Hence, it would be a dead SB card.
Yes, the manabase is a problem with Anger in the SB, however, if you keep this in mind and fetch accordantly you usually shouldn't have a problem casting it turn 3 or even turn 2 of an SSG (rarely needed).
Regarding the Amulets, I mainly bring them in vs BGx since I'm confident enough in my skills to play around any kind of reasonable graveyard hate. However, if you have dead MD cards, you can usually board one in (or even two if you have them).
What you can do is (especially vs slower decks) to cut 1 Goryo's and board both Amulets in since those Amulets are REALLY hard to deal with (IoK and Decay doesn't hit it) and they provide a constant stream of pressure for the opponent as soon as he seems them.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Temple of Malice
2 Blood Crypt
2 Polluted Delta
2 Mountain
5 Swamp
Creature (14)
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Night's Whisper
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Through the Breach
2 Tormenting Voice
2 Manamorphose
2 Desperate Ritual
1 Noxious Revival
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Pact of Negation
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Blood Moon
2 Sudden Shock
2 Thoughtseize
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Not much to say to this version, it feels maybe a bit dated, especially the sideboard. But here's what I've been brewing and coming up with great consistency and resiliency as well :
2 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Deceit
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
2 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
Creature (14)
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
2 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Serum Visions
3 Sleight of Hand
4 Through the Breach
2 Izzet Charm
1 Manamorphose
2 Desperate Ritual
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Pact of Negation
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Quicksilver Amulet
1 Sudden Shock
1 Echoing Truth
2 Thoughtseize
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
I'm testing with temples because I'm an Ad Nauseam player and we run temples : for me, it clears some draws and helps with fixing the sequencing in the first few turns. Everything can go off at instant speed on turn 2, but with more consistency I find because of blue cantrips. The manabase is very stable, very clean also. It seems like a weird Grixis manabase, but it works fine and nobody see it coming (because having these two sorts of temples as well as fetches and shocks looks like a homemade brew). The sideboard is good, I like having protection against discard with Leyline and Pact to back up the combo against control or when going off (again, very much inspired by Ad Nauseam). Comments are welcomed!
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
Keeping in mind that the team unified aspect of the deck building would restrict the amount of fetches available, I only run 4-5 fetches in my BR shoal deck. When your plan A is to win by tossing lands at your opponent, fetches start having a very real opportunity cost in a deck that is already pretty greedy on the amount of lands it runs. Also the life isn't insignificant either w/ Griselbrand activations.
Exactly.
Nowadays I only run 4 Fetches because of those exact reasons.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
His teammates where running burn and infect which left deltas and marshes available, so he choose to go in with 4 fetchs. The life argument makes a ton of sense sense the difference between something like 7 and 8 life could be the difference in the game.
i'm also wondering why he didn't use any collective brutality?
been using 2 in my main deck..and it's so good.
2BB Sorcery (R)
All creatures get -3/-3 until end of turn.
You may cast a card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your hand without paying its mana cost.
Seams to me that using this to cast a fused breaking // entering to reanimate Griselbrand and clear the board could be good.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)