Is running Blue for Visions and Izzet Charm that indispensable for the deck? I used to run the BR version with Shoals and it was pretty neat. Doesn't the third color make the mana base a lot more wonky?
The only problem is, that you cannot run the playset Temple (though, you can run 2 Temples max). Otherwise, the Manabase is pretty stable.
The PT TTB version (so the classic version) still has the same issue it had before, problems with finishing the game while being "slower" than the Shoal version.
It is true, that Jace is better in that deck, but I still would want to run Shoal version instead, since it can win to roughly 90% when Griselbrand hits the battlefield.
@Overmaster, looks cute and funny, have to test it
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
The PT TTB version (so the classic version) still has the same issue it had before, problems with finishing the game while being "slower" than the Shoal version.
It is true, that Jace is better in that deck, but I still would want to run Shoal version instead, since it can win to roughly 90% when Griselbrand hits the battlefield.
@Overmaster, looks cute and funny, have to test it
Greetings,
Kathal
The shoal version still has the problem of getting destroyed by any form of disruption.
At least the grixis version is a bit more resilient to being thoughtseized
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
I think the arguement here is Grixis pro tour version vs Grishoalbrand vs Grixis Grishoalbrand (without jace, just serum visions And izzet charm MB plus some sb)
Pro tour versión which plays jace, can combo off with more consistency than Grishoalbrand ( any versión). However it has problems closing games And enables cards from the oponent that would be plain dead playing grishoalbrand, for example lightning bolt And abrupt decay.
Both have some pros And cons, i just came to the conclusion that you should play whatever deck you feel more comfortable with.
I played the pt deck tonight with a couple changes. Dropped the 2 thoughtseize and ran the other 2 bolts main. In the sb I ran 2 electricery, a cyclonic rift, an izzet staticcaster, 4 Leyline of sanctity, 2 dispel, 1 who shelters all, 2 vandablast, illness in the ranks, and a painfull truths. Went 3-0-1 infect (2-0), u/w control (2-0), grixis delver (draw 1-1) and infect (2-1). All in all I had the best record of the night won my 4 packs and was happy with the deck. With all the mimics and scions I wanted to be sure Drowner wasn't going to get me so that's why all the token hate. However I didn't see the eldrazi deck at all. I love my board plan though. Electricery got infect players a lot as well as static caster. Illness probably isn't the best call for tonight but had I seen souls tokens or scions it may have recked them. Rift was incase I ran into bridge or worship (even though annihilation is good vs worship too). I should have beat grixis but game 3 I got sloppy on my fetches and got blood mooned (hadn't seen it the previous 2 games at all). Any way first event IV played in since GP Madison so I was very happy!
Sorry for spelling/grammar. Very tired and on my phone.
I played the pt deck tonight with a couple changes. Dropped the 2 thoughtseize and ran the other 2 bolts main. In the sb I ran 2 electricery, a cyclonic rift, an izzet staticcaster, 4 Leyline of sanctity, 2 dispel, 1 who shelters all, 2 vandablast, illness in the ranks, and a painfull truths. Went 3-0-1 infect (2-0), u/w control (2-0), grixis delver (draw 1-1) and infect (2-1). All in all I had the best record of the night won my 4 packs and was happy with the deck. With all the mimics and scions I wanted to be sure Drowner wasn't going to get me so that's why all the token hate. However I didn't see the eldrazi deck at all. I love my board plan though. Electricery got infect players a lot as well as static caster. Illness probably isn't the best call for tonight but had I seen souls tokens or scions it may have recked them. Rift was incase I ran into bridge or worship (even though annihilation is good vs worship too). I should have beat grixis but game 3 I got sloppy on my fetches and got blood mooned (hadn't seen it the previous 2 games at all). Any way first event IV played in since GP Madison so I was very happy!
Sorry for spelling/grammar. Very tired and on my phone.
Nice outing What is your experience with closing the game? The 4x lightning bolt helps however, that would mostly be used for interaction with the opponent instead of hitting the face.
Could you describe some actions in your game?
I assume hitting the opponent for 15 + annihilate 6 is devastating. And you’ll have enough time to chip the last remaining < 5 dmg?
Furthermore griselbrand in this deck would function as “hit for 7, draw fresh 7 or 14 cards (max?) for a next turn emrakul / new griselbrand?
As a Shoal player I want to try it out. However I have to keep in mind this list is a reanimator non combo list.
Furthermore my meta is flooded with creature decks (going wide) and abzan decks. (literally no one plays blue). Can this deck give those decks the needed pressure? Of course some anger of the gods / torpor orbs wouldn't hurt.
I just started playing a list very similar to the PT ones a couple of weeks ago and it's played very well. I've dropped the Izzet Charms and put in Simiam Spirit Guide in their place; and that has made it much better it seems. I have discovered, in my opinion anyway, I really like to reanimate Griselbrand on defense vs. aggro, Eldrazi and burn decks; it's been very useful to block with him gain the life and then 7-14 cards. This has usually been enough to set up Emrakul the next turn or at least another Griselbrand will go back into it they GY for the next turn.
I played the pt deck tonight with a couple changes. Dropped the 2 thoughtseize and ran the other 2 bolts main. In the sb I ran 2 electricery, a cyclonic rift, an izzet staticcaster, 4 Leyline of sanctity, 2 dispel, 1 who shelters all, 2 vandablast, illness in the ranks, and a painfull truths. Went 3-0-1 infect (2-0), u/w control (2-0), grixis delver (draw 1-1) and infect (2-1). All in all I had the best record of the night won my 4 packs and was happy with the deck. With all the mimics and scions I wanted to be sure Drowner wasn't going to get me so that's why all the token hate. However I didn't see the eldrazi deck at all. I love my board plan though. Electricery got infect players a lot as well as static caster. Illness probably isn't the best call for tonight but had I seen souls tokens or scions it may have recked them. Rift was incase I ran into bridge or worship (even though annihilation is good vs worship too). I should have beat grixis but game 3 I got sloppy on my fetches and got blood mooned (hadn't seen it the previous 2 games at all). Any way first event IV played in since GP Madison so I was very happy!
Sorry for spelling/grammar. Very tired and on my phone.
Nice outing What is your experience with closing the game? The 4x lightning bolt helps however, that would mostly be used for interaction with the opponent instead of hitting the face.
Could you describe some actions in your game?
I assume hitting the opponent for 15 + annihilate 6 is devastating. And you’ll have enough time to chip the last remaining < 5 dmg?
Furthermore griselbrand in this deck would function as “hit for 7, draw fresh 7 or 14 cards (max?) for a next turn emrakul / new griselbrand?
As a Shoal player I want to try it out. However I have to keep in mind this list is a reanimator non combo list.
Furthermore my meta is flooded with creature decks (going wide) and abzan decks. (literally no one plays blue). Can this deck give those decks the needed pressure? Of course some anger of the gods / torpor orbs wouldn't hurt.
You basically described exactly how it goes. Once your opponent loses 6 perminent even if they are still at a decent life total it's mostly over. Tar pit is a great finisher too at that point. Having access to 4 bolt 4 charm and Jace to flash back can keep the board state clear for the most part. The thing you need to remember, I feel, is that you don't need to win turn 3. You can play a longer game and set your hand up to do things like through the breach at op end step, so if they counter you can try to get a spell through on your turn. I've also thought of playing a P&K in the main and sb totaling 2 in the 75. As far as go wide decks that's something you'd just need to tune your sb for. For example I assumed I wanted electricery over something like damnation and it paid off huge! Just remember you play more boarded games usually than you do main boarded games and that's where you make your meta calls IMO.
As far as dropping izzet charm (for ssg makes no sence because it's already in) I think that's a bad idea. It's 3 options are so versatile and once again you need the looting effects more than anything.
EDIT: Don't be afraid to slam Jace he's better than most think and if he eats removal that's great as it's the only creature (until I add P&K) that we care about casting. So if I have a Jace that eats a path or removal spell that's perfectly fine with me. I have also thought about a newlamog vs an opponent that might have gained inf life if that's an issue in your meta it's a great option.
Yes Pia an Kiran, I cut 1 SSG for them. Jace is just better than snapcaster, and your spells costing an extra 2 mana isn't really ideal I don't think. I'm also thinking of cutting the leylines altogether in th SB for a little more anti creature action as well as a jin-getaxis.
anyone tried the Dega lists? ive always like the grixis lists for emmy but the random kiki combo seems interesting. plus being able to hard cast things and have hate in the sb improves matches.
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Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
I think Burn shouldn't be all that hard because we have shoals and Wurms to keep us alive (provided they don't draw too many Skullcracks or Atarka Commands).
There are 2 problems with the burn matchup. The first is that we are wholly non-interactive with what they are doing, so while yes, you can use shoal to gain 11 against them, a lot of the time that doesn't do anything other than act as a Fog against them, and you are often facing down lethal the next turn anyway. The second issue is that this deck uses life as a resource to run the combo engine. If you go off with Griselbrand at 6 life, there's a very good chance you'll just whiff and die anyway.
In practice, it ends up coming down to if you have the quick combo and don't have to spend a lot of time setting it up, you win. But if you have a slower hand, you usually end up losing (even if you have Shoal + Wurm to speedbump them, neither of those helps you assemble the combo any faster).
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11487&d=265260&f=MO
The only problem is, that you cannot run the playset Temple (though, you can run 2 Temples max). Otherwise, the Manabase is pretty stable.
I had to giggle here cause you have no idea how much Jace sucks in the Shoal version
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/carlosgutierrez-02112016-daily-deck-list-mardu-goryos-vengeance/
Modern: Eldrazi CB,
I think PT version has better hands, but is more inconsitent to disruption.
The PT TTB version (so the classic version) still has the same issue it had before, problems with finishing the game while being "slower" than the Shoal version.
It is true, that Jace is better in that deck, but I still would want to run Shoal version instead, since it can win to roughly 90% when Griselbrand hits the battlefield.
@Overmaster, looks cute and funny, have to test it
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
What's your list looking like these days ?
The shoal version still has the problem of getting destroyed by any form of disruption.
At least the grixis version is a bit more resilient to being thoughtseized
Pro tour versión which plays jace, can combo off with more consistency than Grishoalbrand ( any versión). However it has problems closing games And enables cards from the oponent that would be plain dead playing grishoalbrand, for example lightning bolt And abrupt decay.
Both have some pros And cons, i just came to the conclusion that you should play whatever deck you feel more comfortable with.
Sorry for spelling/grammar. Very tired and on my phone.
Nice outing What is your experience with closing the game? The 4x lightning bolt helps however, that would mostly be used for interaction with the opponent instead of hitting the face.
Could you describe some actions in your game?
I assume hitting the opponent for 15 + annihilate 6 is devastating. And you’ll have enough time to chip the last remaining < 5 dmg?
Furthermore griselbrand in this deck would function as “hit for 7, draw fresh 7 or 14 cards (max?) for a next turn emrakul / new griselbrand?
As a Shoal player I want to try it out. However I have to keep in mind this list is a reanimator non combo list.
Furthermore my meta is flooded with creature decks (going wide) and abzan decks. (literally no one plays blue). Can this deck give those decks the needed pressure? Of course some anger of the gods / torpor orbs wouldn't hurt.
You basically described exactly how it goes. Once your opponent loses 6 perminent even if they are still at a decent life total it's mostly over. Tar pit is a great finisher too at that point. Having access to 4 bolt 4 charm and Jace to flash back can keep the board state clear for the most part. The thing you need to remember, I feel, is that you don't need to win turn 3. You can play a longer game and set your hand up to do things like through the breach at op end step, so if they counter you can try to get a spell through on your turn. I've also thought of playing a P&K in the main and sb totaling 2 in the 75. As far as go wide decks that's something you'd just need to tune your sb for. For example I assumed I wanted electricery over something like damnation and it paid off huge! Just remember you play more boarded games usually than you do main boarded games and that's where you make your meta calls IMO.
As far as dropping izzet charm (for ssg makes no sence because it's already in) I think that's a bad idea. It's 3 options are so versatile and once again you need the looting effects more than anything.
EDIT: Don't be afraid to slam Jace he's better than most think and if he eats removal that's great as it's the only creature (until I add P&K) that we care about casting. So if I have a Jace that eats a path or removal spell that's perfectly fine with me. I have also thought about a newlamog vs an opponent that might have gained inf life if that's an issue in your meta it's a great option.
However, I always thought, that running like 1 or 2 Snapcasters in that shell might work out quite nice.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
What do you think of Grishoalbrand with blue vs Classic Grishoal against Naya Burn?.
Huang says burn is one of our best matchups but i find it difficult to win. Not unfavorable but pretty even?
Whats the take on that matchup?
There are 2 problems with the burn matchup. The first is that we are wholly non-interactive with what they are doing, so while yes, you can use shoal to gain 11 against them, a lot of the time that doesn't do anything other than act as a Fog against them, and you are often facing down lethal the next turn anyway. The second issue is that this deck uses life as a resource to run the combo engine. If you go off with Griselbrand at 6 life, there's a very good chance you'll just whiff and die anyway.
In practice, it ends up coming down to if you have the quick combo and don't have to spend a lot of time setting it up, you win. But if you have a slower hand, you usually end up losing (even if you have Shoal + Wurm to speedbump them, neither of those helps you assemble the combo any faster).