I think writing down exact sideboard cards and numbers to write down is a bad idea, they become outdated real quick, decks change, the format can speed up or slow down. He's still tinkering a little with some choices but he was pretty consistent on what he liked taking out or in. It definitely helped, I was afraid to side out any of the wraiths, mishra's and tarfires when I picked the deck up, hoping the guide eases new players in
I was a little critical of the lingering souls in the sideboard, but I can see how incredibly important it was to the deck.
thoughts from my limited testing. SB is still up in the air. It is pretty similar to the jund SB minus the obvious red cards. For now I have counters like negate, ceremonius regection and spell snare in their place. This deck is a little less on the all in shadow and more on the delerium plan. It does lack the oops I win with cards like rampager and especially battle rage. I watched over the weekend and the deck seemed to do fine enough without them. I do really like the idea of lingering souls in the side. I will certainly be adding and changing the mana to accommodate them (removing some or all of the fast lands and adding in godless shrine and such, numbers TBD). The deck can easily achieve delerium pretty consistently by t3. I've even had it turn 1 thanks to bauble and thought scour but that's obviously rare.
Is it better than jund? /shrug. It is a different play style that I find enjoyable. Little more toolboxy and having so many 4 power guys so early makes stubborn denial pretty insane.
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Current Decks:
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange BWG Abzan value evolution BUG BUG Midrange
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
I saw the article, i'm not a premium member, is it worth subscribing?
Obviously it's against forum rules to give any of that text out, but just one question, does he have a sideboard guide in there or is it just him basically talking about it like a introduction prime guide?
No Ancient Grudge against Affinity? What about Stony Silence in the SB over Kataki? How affective is Kataki really? Seems easy to get rid of and it may lock down their lands but it won't stop them if the pieces are already on the battlefield. I guess we rely on Fatal Pushes for that? Just curious.
Akalah, please refrain form posting things like that
It's
A.) Not even Death Shadow Jund
It's completely taking focus off deck and navigating discussion away from the actual deck. You built some kind of BUG deck, I'd go over there and ask for input. Outside of having Death's Shadow and Tarmogoyfs the deck is completely unrecognizable.
No Ancient Grudge against Affinity? What about Stony Silence in the SB over Kataki? How affective is Kataki really? Seems easy to get rid of and it may lock down their lands but it won't stop them if the pieces are already on the battlefield. I guess we rely on Fatal Pushes for that? Just curious.
So the reason for running hate-bear style creatures is because you can fetch them up with traverse. Same reason you want to run 1x ghor-clan rampager and 1x battle rage, not just 2 battle rage. The power of the deck extends far beyond just disrupting and playing quick threats; it's also a toolbox deck!
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
So the reason for running hate-bear style creatures is because you can fetch them up with traverse. Same reason you want to run 1x ghor-clan rampager and 1x battle rage, not just 2 battle rage. The power of the deck extends far beyond just disrupting and playing quick threats; it's also a toolbox deck!
I understand that but does it really help is the question. How often is it disrupted? Doesn't seem like the best tool even though it may see play more often.
I see Surgical Extraction being boarded in a LOT. Can we talk about what the typical targets are and what you're looking to achieve with them in the different matchups? (Ramp & Tron / Control / Mirror)
I saw the article, i'm not a premium member, is it worth subscribing?
Obviously it's against forum rules to give any of that text out, but just one question, does he have a sideboard guide in there or is it just him basically talking about it like a introduction prime guide?
It's mostly explaining why the deck is so good and what types of decks it beats vs it's bad matchups, no sb notes in the articles. Some good insight, but nothing that I didn't already know.
I see Surgical Extraction being boarded in a LOT. Can we talk about what the typical targets are and what you're looking to achieve with them in the different matchups? (Ramp & Tron / Control / Mirror)
Against combo decks or decks that lean heavily on one card, remove that. For fair matchups, you're usually hoping to hit a removal spell that is strong against us and is played as a 4 of, mostly Path. Removing all 4 paths from someone's deck can make it very difficult for them to deal w/ our threats, and we almost always have the biggest creatures on the board.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
Why can't I post my death shadow list? First, this thread says death shadow zoo and nothing about jund only. If this is indeed a jund only thread then my apologies and I won't post here but that needs to be changed in the title. Is there really only 1 way to build this deck that I get yelled at for posting a list?
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The deck is going to be hitting tier 1 very soon and needs one of the mods to confirm the numbers in paper shares and mtgo, and then clearly rename the thread,
Every other talk about the shadow decks we have seen are now definitely tier developing competitive sub forums
Combo decks, it feels extremely bad to have a crucial piece gone
Take for example Scapeshift, if I remove Scapeshift itself, they literally have no win cons outside of possible Obstinate Baloths of creature side pieces, if they elected to bring it in
Against regular Tron, fulminator mage into Surgical buys enough time for Shadow to get big and lock them out before they assemble enough mana
against burn, they have no cards to deal with shadow except path to exile and deflecting palm, it hoses them bad.
The deck doesn't handle lingering souls well, that card needs to go
Cheerios only runs 8 creatures
Death Shadow Jund only runs 9 creatures
AD Naseum mainly has 1 win con (2 if they have laboratory maniac).
The deck is running 8 to 10 discard spells, and 3 fulminators, the extractions are amazing. Unless you're super worried about Abzan Company and Dredge, surgical is better than gravediggers cage as a whole
I see Surgical Extraction being boarded in a LOT. Can we talk about what the typical targets are and what you're looking to achieve with them in the different matchups? (Ramp & Tron / Control / Mirror)
Against combo decks or decks that lean heavily on one card, remove that. For fair matchups, you're usually hoping to hit a removal spell that is strong against us and is played as a 4 of, mostly Path. Removing all 4 paths from someone's deck can make it very difficult for them to deal w/ our threats, and we almost always have the biggest creatures on the board.
Sounds like there should be an argument for having it main board?
As a side note, if you get the chance against cheerios, extract their retract instead of their creatures. If you extract sram they can still combo w/ puresteel, but they pretty much crumble to dust w/out retract.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
Shuck, a 1 of Stony would be bad, and the deck doesn't have the room to run multiple copies of it.
Yes, they could Galvanic blast it, but that's just part of the game. That's 1 less galvanic blast to my face if I'm at 6 life with multiple flying creatures coming at me.
The reason Kataki makes sense is because you're effectively running 5 copies of her to see early in the game, she can absolutely devastate Affinity if you start dropping lingering souls or 6/7 Goyfs.
Akalah, please refrain form posting things like that
It's
A.) Not even Death Shadow Jund
It's completely taking focus off deck and navigating discussion away from the actual deck. You built some kind of BUG deck, I'd go over there and ask for input. Outside of having Death's Shadow and Tarmogoyfs the deck is completely unrecognizable.
I suppose people reacted the same when white was first splashed to jund for lingering souls... that being said... You do realise this thread is DEATH SHADOW ZOO right? and that some of us are still looking to take the deck in opposite directions?
I'm actually starting to hope for a splintering of this thread before the myopia kills the original deck. Call it ShadowJund or something.
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while ghash77 streamed this deck a lot and put a ton of 5-0s, the creator its someone from germany, he made top8 of the germany rptq last december
I was a little critical of the lingering souls in the sideboard, but I can see how incredibly important it was to the deck.
4 tarmogoyf
4 death's shadow
3 grim flayer
2 snapcaster mage
1 tasigur, the golden fang
spells
4 mishra's bauble
2 inquisition of kozilek
3 thoughtseize
4 thought scour
2 stubborn denial
3 traverse the ulvenwald
2 abrupt decay
3 fatal push
2 liliana of the veil
1 liliana, the last hope
1 blooming marsh
2 darkslick shores
1 creeping tar pit
1 forest
1 island
2 swamp
1 misty rainforest
4 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
1 watery grave
1 overgrown tomb
1 breeding pool
thoughts from my limited testing. SB is still up in the air. It is pretty similar to the jund SB minus the obvious red cards. For now I have counters like negate, ceremonius regection and spell snare in their place. This deck is a little less on the all in shadow and more on the delerium plan. It does lack the oops I win with cards like rampager and especially battle rage. I watched over the weekend and the deck seemed to do fine enough without them. I do really like the idea of lingering souls in the side. I will certainly be adding and changing the mana to accommodate them (removing some or all of the fast lands and adding in godless shrine and such, numbers TBD). The deck can easily achieve delerium pretty consistently by t3. I've even had it turn 1 thanks to bauble and thought scour but that's obviously rare.
Is it better than jund? /shrug. It is a different play style that I find enjoyable. Little more toolboxy and having so many 4 power guys so early makes stubborn denial pretty insane.
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/34597_The-Best-Deck-In-Modern.html
it's a premium article, btw.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
Obviously it's against forum rules to give any of that text out, but just one question, does he have a sideboard guide in there or is it just him basically talking about it like a introduction prime guide?
No Ancient Grudge against Affinity? What about Stony Silence in the SB over Kataki? How affective is Kataki really? Seems easy to get rid of and it may lock down their lands but it won't stop them if the pieces are already on the battlefield. I guess we rely on Fatal Pushes for that? Just curious.
It's
A.) Not even Death Shadow Jund
It's completely taking focus off deck and navigating discussion away from the actual deck. You built some kind of BUG deck, I'd go over there and ask for input. Outside of having Death's Shadow and Tarmogoyfs the deck is completely unrecognizable.
So the reason for running hate-bear style creatures is because you can fetch them up with traverse. Same reason you want to run 1x ghor-clan rampager and 1x battle rage, not just 2 battle rage. The power of the deck extends far beyond just disrupting and playing quick threats; it's also a toolbox deck!
I understand that but does it really help is the question. How often is it disrupted? Doesn't seem like the best tool even though it may see play more often.
It's mostly explaining why the deck is so good and what types of decks it beats vs it's bad matchups, no sb notes in the articles. Some good insight, but nothing that I didn't already know.
Against combo decks or decks that lean heavily on one card, remove that. For fair matchups, you're usually hoping to hit a removal spell that is strong against us and is played as a 4 of, mostly Path. Removing all 4 paths from someone's deck can make it very difficult for them to deal w/ our threats, and we almost always have the biggest creatures on the board.
edit: fixed double post.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
Modern: BG eldrazi midrange
BWG Abzan value evolution
BUG BUG Midrange
Tiny Leaders: BW Athreos Zombies
Commander: BG Gitrog Monster
The thread is in desperate need for a redo
The deck is going to be hitting tier 1 very soon and needs one of the mods to confirm the numbers in paper shares and mtgo, and then clearly rename the thread,
Every other talk about the shadow decks we have seen are now definitely tier developing competitive sub forums
Take for example Scapeshift, if I remove Scapeshift itself, they literally have no win cons outside of possible Obstinate Baloths of creature side pieces, if they elected to bring it in
Against regular Tron, fulminator mage into Surgical buys enough time for Shadow to get big and lock them out before they assemble enough mana
against burn, they have no cards to deal with shadow except path to exile and deflecting palm, it hoses them bad.
The deck doesn't handle lingering souls well, that card needs to go
Cheerios only runs 8 creatures
Death Shadow Jund only runs 9 creatures
AD Naseum mainly has 1 win con (2 if they have laboratory maniac).
The deck is running 8 to 10 discard spells, and 3 fulminators, the extractions are amazing. Unless you're super worried about Abzan Company and Dredge, surgical is better than gravediggers cage as a whole
Sounds like there should be an argument for having it main board?
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
Yes, they could Galvanic blast it, but that's just part of the game. That's 1 less galvanic blast to my face if I'm at 6 life with multiple flying creatures coming at me.
The reason Kataki makes sense is because you're effectively running 5 copies of her to see early in the game, she can absolutely devastate Affinity if you start dropping lingering souls or 6/7 Goyfs.
I hope that answers your question.
I suppose people reacted the same when white was first splashed to jund for lingering souls... that being said... You do realise this thread is DEATH SHADOW ZOO right? and that some of us are still looking to take the deck in opposite directions?
I'm actually starting to hope for a splintering of this thread before the myopia kills the original deck. Call it ShadowJund or something.