I have had a recorded 95 percent win rate in 200 competitive playtesting matches or tournament.
While I don't doubt the deck is very good and am pursuing it myself, this is a very extreme claim, especially against experienced, competitive players. That said, matchup analysis, primer, and sideboard guide would be appreciated by myself and others for certain.
Will do that for sure this weekend. How many matchups are preferred to be covered? I am thinking the tier 1 decks and the important tier 1.5-2
I think the Tier 1 for sure (there's only 5 listed in this forum right now anyway), plus maybe another 5 or so of the Tier 2, trying to cover a variety of strategies, with a focus on the more difficult matchups. Maybe UWR/UW/UWB control, GR tron, scapeshift, boggles, amulet bloom, U/UW tron, and the mirror?
My version I have yet to lose a game to TRON upto mmassive amounts of disruption and a clock. I had played TRON for about a year though so that might help. I feel TRON is on paper a bad matchup, but a good one if you know what to take and sequencing.
Powerhawk, I agree the card is insane. I also agree the deck is an entirely different deck as it has gotten me killer results, it doesn't lose its disruption and is less fragile against disruption as you run subpar disruption with naya and thus less resiliency without adding consistency to your mana base the mana is just as consistent. I feel it becomes so all in on the card. I personally will be sticking to my deck. I do think the best shell is naya run the big three drops and even a nacatyl. In addition Township. Let me know how it works out when you release a list I will test it and see what I would change.
This deck looks fun to play and splashing black allows for some very nice cards to be played. I'm currently running a GW Hatebears list and can't decide whether to switch over to Abzan. Losing Thalia is pretty big against some matchups. Aven Mindcensor is also great when flashed in at the right time. Would you guys consider running scooze?
This deck looks fun to play and splashing black allows for some very nice cards to be played. I'm currently running a GW Hatebears list and can't decide whether to switch over to Abzan. Losing Thalia is pretty big against some matchups. Aven Mindcensor is also great when flashed in at the right time. Would you guys consider running scooze?
I feel like the general consensus is thalia's not all that great here because:
Hey everyone! I have after hours of work as promised a sideboard guide and matchup analysis. I will be going over almost every single matchup in the tier 1 and 2. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-02-15-POf-podless-pod/ is my current list. The sideboard if you cant see descriptions in tappedout is 2 zealous persecution, 3 lingering souls, 3 scavenging ooze, 2 nature's claim, 2 stony silence, 3 engineered explosives. I only play against people who if they have no other magic accomplishments at least know the deck they play inside and out.
Affinity: Cut 4 thoughtseize 2 inquisition 4 voice 1 liege for 2 stony silence 2 engineered explosives 2 zealous persecution 2 Nature's Claim 3 Lingering Souls
50 playtested matchups 49 wins
This matchup is laughably easy. Our amount of disruption combined with our clock is insane here. Taking out the hand disruption here is because it gets outclassed by our affinity hate. Liege is great, but a bit to slow here. The final card to consider cutting would be between sculler and voice. In the end, I chose voice as whipflare is sideboarded in in some lists and sculler cant be hit by it. In addition, it still allows us to curve and disrupt if need be and is a better topdeck then the other hand disruption. Affinity is all about flying so voice can rarely get its token.
Twin: cut 4 finks for 2 scooze 2 engineered explosives 30 tempo twin matches 28 wins, 10 geist of saint twin (UWR twin) 5 wins, Tarmo 3 matches won all 3
We have a problem in a good way in that there are different routes you can take to put in, but very little to take out. Finks is the worst here as we have what we need against the tempo plan already. Scavenging ooze shrinks goyf and slows the clock of tasigur and murderous cut if grixis is a problem for you. It also blanks snapcaster targets and is an insane topdeck should twin find a way to successfully one for one you. Twin takes out pretty much the entire combo against us due to their very hard ability to combo off, making this a very favorable matchup due to our clock. The key to this is baiting counters, pressuring, and always bluffing or having the answer to a potential combo. They rarely go for it with open mana. Engineered explosives is great here. Put it on 3 and they literally can not win. They cant stick blood moon, they cant combo as the copies have the CMC of 3 , and they cant even geist us. Very rarely will they board something for it as its hard to expect it. If it is a more all in version of twin, I would add the nature's claim and possibly zealous persecution cutting voice as it becomes significantly worse if they only want to combo off.
GBx: Cut 4 thoughtseize 2 IoK 2 Scullers for 2 zealous persecution 3 scavenging ooze and 3 lingering souls (30 matches yet to lose a game)
Why I have yet to lose a game should be self explanitory. This was meant to pray on GBx and it does just that. The hand disruption is very bad here and we go larger then them and literally produce a threat every turn while having the disruption to stop the bob and goyf. The scullers get the remaining due to it being the best topdeck out of the hand disruption spells as a 2/2 body at worst. Make sure in match ups like this to always say "anything with the trigger on the stack?" Most people dont see sculler much and will 2 for 1 themselves.
Burn: cut 4 thoughtseize 1 path for 3 scavenging ooze 2 nature's claim 40 matches 38 won
This is another easy matchup with the lifegain, the disruption for the creature base and taking the higher impact spells in conjunction with careful fetching. Thoughtseize is the only bad hand disruption spell here even though it does say save a damage, I would prefer save 3 or require burn to hit a creature with a burn spell to get a spell back in the form of sculler. Nature's Claim hits eidolon and our own scullers as well while slowing burns clock a turn or two which is all we need as they are a combo deck. It even hits more fringe sideboard play with things like ensnaring bridge (which is actually insane for burn). Scavenging ooze is more lifegain and a clock in topdeck mode.
Infect: cut 4 rhino 4 liege 2 finks for 3 engineered explosivs 3 lingering souls 2 zealous persecution 2 Nature's Claim 10 matches played (Tyler Hill) won 5 of them
This matchup generally is unfavorable according to Tyler, but his mass experience with the deck has taught him how to plan against it, making it against a player like Tyler 50-50, but normally favorable for us. Rhino and liege are a clock, but here so are our other things. They have a hard time with the damage plan against us, most of our things are either disruption, low curve clock, or block twice. Lifegain isnt as relavent against infect , so finks gets the cut. The only sideboard choice here that might need explaning is natures claim. Natures claim hits inkmoth, rancor, ichorclaw sometimes if they run it, and the cards they might sideboard against us.
All control varients cut 4 abrupt decay 2 inquisition of kozilek for 3 scavenging ooze 3 lingering souls (30 matches against UWR lost one game total, 2 macthes against esper and sultai won all games)
Most of our things are good against control similar to twin. what I like to do is slam a voice and play one more high end threat then never tap out again untill they answer whats on board, or slam a smiter and ride it to town after taking a path with the hand disruption. Inquisition doesnt hit the high end spells such as cryptic, batterskull, and keranos. Path stays in to deal with manlands, but abrupt decay hits very little. Scavenging ooze is a great topdeck, is a huge must answer threat by itself, is lifegain as every point of damage matters when control is trying to hit for exactsies, and blanks snapcaster mages.
Amulet: 2 IoK for 2 Nature's Claim
Hitting amulet and potentially leyline against a combo deck.Enough said. This is generally favorable as I playtested it 4 matches won 2 of them the 2 I lost he always had one turn to topdeck his only out to the situation and they somehow always did. Disruption is great against them provided we have the clock to back it up which we do most of the time. In this matchup, ALWAYS TAKE SUMMER BLOOM!! Steven Speck released an article saying that is the mistake almost every player makes. Summer bloom is the threat. We can decay the amulet if its a problem, but generally it slows them down a ton to take bloom. It is what makes GBx a favorable matchup for amulet, is that single mistake.
BW tokens: Cut 4 voice 3 path to exile for 3 Engineered Explosives 2 Zealous Persecution 2 Nature's Claim 20 matches played against it all 20 won
Tokens blanks spot removal, so path comes out. Decay stays in to hit anthems as the 1/1's are terrible against us, the 2/2's and 3/3's however are a different story. Voice isnt needed as most of the things they do are in the air and are sorcery speed and they dont run enough removal to justify it. Engineered explosives just wins games when it comes in. Persecution is often a board wipe but it also screws with combat math and again just wins games. Nature's Claim at worst hits scullers to stall, but it is mostly a way to deal with hate and hit anthems.
Zoo: Cut 4 thoughtseize 2 inquisition 3 tidehollow for 3 scavenging ooze 3 engineered explosives 3 lingering souls 40 tested matches (30 tribal 10 naya) won all of the naya won 27 tribal
Souls is a clock with township as well as blockers to stall as every turn matters. Engineered explosives is often game over for them, and scooze is terrible for them as lifegain as well as blanking snapcaster mages. Hand disruption isnt good here as it normally just takes a creature that gets outclassed by ours anyway.
GR tron: cut 4 decay for 2 stony silence 2 Nature's Claim 6 matches played lost one game
Stony silence is the ***** against tron. In addition, claim is fantastic for us as it hits early dorks as well as wurmcoil and its tokens and O stone. Decay has few targets. This matchup is bad on paper, but in practice we keep them off tron a ton and provide a clock. They cant go over the top if tron isnt complete! It does help I played against it quite a bit prior to this deck and even used to play it for about 9 months.
U tron: cut 4 decay 3 finks for 2 stony silence 2 Nature's Claim 3 Scavenging Ooze
This is only here for if you play MTGO (I only play paper as I dont feel like wasting money on an online version where there is little payoff).
Stony is better here as it shuts off mindslaver and the mana accelerants they have, as does nature's claim but it also hits platinum angel. scavenging ooze shuts off snapcaster, the mindslaver combo, and provides a clock when all else fails. U tron has trouble against aggro, and this would be no different.
Living End: 3 scavenging Ooze in cut 3 thoughtseize
The only spells you care about are 3 CMC; the cascade enablers, fulminator mage, and blood moon. This could go either way for us as we can disrupt them with scooze and make them dig for the combo. If they get it fast enough, we lose. This is untested but is such a little part of the meta anyway that if it really is a problem I can suggest ways to tweak the board to beat it.
Blue Moon: Cut 3 Thoughtsieze 4 Sculler 3 Path for 2 zealous persecution 3 lingering souls 2 nature's claim 3 engineered explosives 5 matches 4 won
Blood moon and shackles as well as batterskull are all hit by claim, and 2 of those are hit by nature's claim. Souls provides a clock and blanks removal. Zealous screws with combat math, and deals with an increasing win con in the form of master of waves. It was in the original and it is in this one to.
Merfolk: Cut 4 sculler 2 voice for 3 engineeered explosives 3 lingering souls 3 matches 3 won
Souls forces them to have a spreading seas after our disruption to win. In addition, Engineered Explosives on 2 spells game over. Sculler gets hit by vapor snag and cant really attack or block much, so he is the worst here. He also gets hit with our explosives. Voice is cut as explosives hits it and there are few counterspellls merfolk runs. This is favorable for us.
Ad Nauseam: 4 voice for 2 stony silence 2 nature's claim. 3 matches 3 won
Hand disruption is a ***** for them, and we can get under leyline or destroy it with nature's claim. Claim also hits phyrexian unlife as well as the other mana rocks. Stony silence means game over. No spellskite to protect things, no lotus bloom, and no mana rocks. Voice is literally useless here.
Storm: 2 nature's claim 3 engineered explosives 3 scavenging ooze cutting 3 path 4 voice 2 rhino.
This is an untested matchup, however this is favorable. We have a ton of disruption preboard to stop the bombs from sticking. Post board, scooze deals with past in flames shennanigans. If they try and combo off fast with warrens, engineered explosives takes care of it and they lose from there. Explosives also takes care of ascension and electromancer. Nature's Claim beats the things they will board. We also have a clock thats low curve.
Scapeshift: cut 4 decay 2 inquisition for 3 scavenging ooze 3 lingering souls 10 matches played 8 won
Souls is a clock on its own that blanks counters. We have so much disruption and such a fast clock that the only way they have won every game against me is when they chained 4 cryptics in a row. Scooze hits snapcaster mages as well as is a clock. I like taking the enablers of scapeshift instead of scapeshift or if they have a slower hand the cryptic someitmes being taken spells instant win.
Bogles: cut 3 path 4 voice for 3 Engineered Explosives 2 Nature's Claim 2 Zealous Persecution 2 matches won both
This is super favorable. Zealuos persecution turn 2 often means game over as they lost the creature to suit up with. Explosives also spells game over. Hand disruption preboard is great but post board they board in leyline which isnt terrible against us but at worst we can natures claim it when we need to. Often though, we dont care about leyline and we just destroy an enchantment when they go for corronet and only try to keep the creatures at bay as a 1/1. This spells almost sure victory.
The mirror: cut 4 thoughtseize 2 inquisition 2 sculler for 3 lingering souils 3 scavenging ooze 2 zealous persecution
Persecution is great at screwing up combat math and wiping the opponents board as they always run the dork version. Souls is a clock and can block at worst. Scavenging ooze screws with other souls , is a great topdeck on its own, and is lifegain. I feel we are favored as we have more disruption then they do and we run manlands so we go bigger. The only not bad hand disruption here is sculler as it exiles liege or smiter or even rhino. I do feel although we seem favored, this becomes hand dependent and skill dependent.
This was my first primer so anything I can do better would be great feedback . I hope this helped and you enjoyed as I worked hard on this and spent a while typing it up! Now that this has been done, I would LOVE if people would give my list a try. If you want to use this, one note is you have to print out the guide as you can use a paper one but not your phone. Dont knock it till you try it! This should do well for you. Any questions please let me know and I would like to remind you guys I playtest against people from all over the world via skype and would love to talk to you guys more as the creator of the archtype to maybe do a chat with one of you, make a podcast on it or modern that im thinking of starting, or maybe even makingg a large skype playgroup for all players of the deck.
One last request, I would love it if you considered adding my version to the primer now that results have been posted. I also want to remind I only test normally with either people who have been to the pro tour, are moderators of big name sites, top 8ed larger scale tournaments, or know the deck they play very well. This means the testing in my eyes is valid due to the sheer number of matches and skill cap. I love this community and hope more people use this deck!
-AJ
I appreciate that you appreciate it! Please come back with results hopefully on a tournament report as I love those! Also, I suggest doing some practice reps to learn sequencing as if you make to many misplays it becomes harder to win. It is somewhat forgiving.
I really like the write up you provided Emracool! I am taking this deck to modern states and an IQ in a couple weeks. How do you like your added discard package? I am convinced that cards like skuller, inquisition, and thoughtseize being more present in the board really help with the twin matchup, which is one of my biggest worries right now.
Thanks man! I would be honored if you used my exact list would love to publicise it and a top 8 (which my list could do if you spend the couple of weeks prior testing). I feel the cards should be main and not sideboard. My list aims to have resilient sideboarding as well as the most amount of game ones won, which generally good cards do. It also gives you immediate slots to take out when it's bad so you don't dilute the decks aggro nature. I hate the dork version as it's combo matchup is terrible due to its few amounts of disruption and having strictly creature disruption like Qasali leads you to lose a lot. In addition, birds are shifty topdecks as well as being super easy to deal with. Most of the time a bird is bolted, hands become strictly worse. I love the package I have main, but if you want to have discard sideboard, DONT! Your sideboard becomes terribly dependant on discard which I don't like. As I said before, our twin matchup here is laughably easy.
If you want any help from me in preparation for the tournaments I would love to man. Let me know. I have a huge Skype playgroup who all contribute and I am so up for talking to you about it.
Emracool, your list is awesome! I've been running it on MTGO and just destroying the competition. It's resilient, adaptive, and the side board gives it a transformative aspect that a lot of other modern decks can't deal with.
You've converted a D&T/ Hatebear player. I look forward to seeing this archetype climb the tiers.
Thank you Chr0m! I dont have MTGO or else I would use it to wreck competitions in dailies (although if anyone has the cards extra on mtgo let me know and I will stream it lol). If you can, I would love it if you crushed dailies with it for me. Glad to convert you to the dark side! Hoping to get my version out there more as when I created the archtype with my good friend, we agreed mana dorks were not the way to go. But people like what they know and they know Jacob Wilson top 8ed the PT with a dork version lol.
I JUST FIGURED OUT OUR NEW NAME! LIEGE RHINO! Anyone else in?
I said it in my primer and I will say it again, stony silence wrecks them! I played tron for about 9 months so I know how to beat it. Hand disruption to keep them off tron or if they have tron already taking the bomb will do it. Nature's Claim also helps. The mana dork version however sucks against it.
Emracool, I am beginning my group testing today actually. I am bringing in quite a few of your suggestions and once I borrow some skullers I will be testing your exact list. I spent the last week looking at match-ups, and I did not want to go to a state tournament that is sure to have lots of twin without the discard package. I'll link my list on Tapped Out later, and I'll let you know about talking to you about the deck!
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While I don't doubt the deck is very good and am pursuing it myself, this is a very extreme claim, especially against experienced, competitive players. That said, matchup analysis, primer, and sideboard guide would be appreciated by myself and others for certain.
I think the Tier 1 for sure (there's only 5 listed in this forum right now anyway), plus maybe another 5 or so of the Tier 2, trying to cover a variety of strategies, with a focus on the more difficult matchups. Maybe UWR/UW/UWB control, GR tron, scapeshift, boggles, amulet bloom, U/UW tron, and the mirror?
I made a post about a couple of the lists I've been testing over here if you are interested:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/597844-dtk-spoilers-modern-discussion?page=34
I am interested to hear any suggestions.
Legacy: Maverick
I feel like the general consensus is thalia's not all that great here because:
1) Most lists are running a lot more non-creature spells than hatebears (2-4 thoughtseize, 3-4 path to exile, 2-4 abrupt decay and usually some number of lingering souls).
2) You're not running leonin arbiter, aven mindcensor, ghost quarter, or tectonic edge, and you don't really have room for them.
3) She only gets half the bonus from wilt-leaf liege.
Affinity: Cut 4 thoughtseize 2 inquisition 4 voice 1 liege for 2 stony silence 2 engineered explosives 2 zealous persecution 2 Nature's Claim 3 Lingering Souls
50 playtested matchups 49 wins
This matchup is laughably easy. Our amount of disruption combined with our clock is insane here. Taking out the hand disruption here is because it gets outclassed by our affinity hate. Liege is great, but a bit to slow here. The final card to consider cutting would be between sculler and voice. In the end, I chose voice as whipflare is sideboarded in in some lists and sculler cant be hit by it. In addition, it still allows us to curve and disrupt if need be and is a better topdeck then the other hand disruption. Affinity is all about flying so voice can rarely get its token.
Twin: cut 4 finks for 2 scooze 2 engineered explosives 30 tempo twin matches 28 wins, 10 geist of saint twin (UWR twin) 5 wins, Tarmo 3 matches won all 3
We have a problem in a good way in that there are different routes you can take to put in, but very little to take out. Finks is the worst here as we have what we need against the tempo plan already. Scavenging ooze shrinks goyf and slows the clock of tasigur and murderous cut if grixis is a problem for you. It also blanks snapcaster targets and is an insane topdeck should twin find a way to successfully one for one you. Twin takes out pretty much the entire combo against us due to their very hard ability to combo off, making this a very favorable matchup due to our clock. The key to this is baiting counters, pressuring, and always bluffing or having the answer to a potential combo. They rarely go for it with open mana. Engineered explosives is great here. Put it on 3 and they literally can not win. They cant stick blood moon, they cant combo as the copies have the CMC of 3 , and they cant even geist us. Very rarely will they board something for it as its hard to expect it. If it is a more all in version of twin, I would add the nature's claim and possibly zealous persecution cutting voice as it becomes significantly worse if they only want to combo off.
GBx: Cut 4 thoughtseize 2 IoK 2 Scullers for 2 zealous persecution 3 scavenging ooze and 3 lingering souls (30 matches yet to lose a game)
Why I have yet to lose a game should be self explanitory. This was meant to pray on GBx and it does just that. The hand disruption is very bad here and we go larger then them and literally produce a threat every turn while having the disruption to stop the bob and goyf. The scullers get the remaining due to it being the best topdeck out of the hand disruption spells as a 2/2 body at worst. Make sure in match ups like this to always say "anything with the trigger on the stack?" Most people dont see sculler much and will 2 for 1 themselves.
Burn: cut 4 thoughtseize 1 path for 3 scavenging ooze 2 nature's claim 40 matches 38 won
This is another easy matchup with the lifegain, the disruption for the creature base and taking the higher impact spells in conjunction with careful fetching. Thoughtseize is the only bad hand disruption spell here even though it does say save a damage, I would prefer save 3 or require burn to hit a creature with a burn spell to get a spell back in the form of sculler. Nature's Claim hits eidolon and our own scullers as well while slowing burns clock a turn or two which is all we need as they are a combo deck. It even hits more fringe sideboard play with things like ensnaring bridge (which is actually insane for burn). Scavenging ooze is more lifegain and a clock in topdeck mode.
Infect: cut 4 rhino 4 liege 2 finks for 3 engineered explosivs 3 lingering souls 2 zealous persecution 2 Nature's Claim 10 matches played (Tyler Hill) won 5 of them
This matchup generally is unfavorable according to Tyler, but his mass experience with the deck has taught him how to plan against it, making it against a player like Tyler 50-50, but normally favorable for us. Rhino and liege are a clock, but here so are our other things. They have a hard time with the damage plan against us, most of our things are either disruption, low curve clock, or block twice. Lifegain isnt as relavent against infect , so finks gets the cut. The only sideboard choice here that might need explaning is natures claim. Natures claim hits inkmoth, rancor, ichorclaw sometimes if they run it, and the cards they might sideboard against us.
All control varients cut 4 abrupt decay 2 inquisition of kozilek for 3 scavenging ooze 3 lingering souls (30 matches against UWR lost one game total, 2 macthes against esper and sultai won all games)
Most of our things are good against control similar to twin. what I like to do is slam a voice and play one more high end threat then never tap out again untill they answer whats on board, or slam a smiter and ride it to town after taking a path with the hand disruption. Inquisition doesnt hit the high end spells such as cryptic, batterskull, and keranos. Path stays in to deal with manlands, but abrupt decay hits very little. Scavenging ooze is a great topdeck, is a huge must answer threat by itself, is lifegain as every point of damage matters when control is trying to hit for exactsies, and blanks snapcaster mages.
Amulet: 2 IoK for 2 Nature's Claim
Hitting amulet and potentially leyline against a combo deck.Enough said. This is generally favorable as I playtested it 4 matches won 2 of them the 2 I lost he always had one turn to topdeck his only out to the situation and they somehow always did. Disruption is great against them provided we have the clock to back it up which we do most of the time. In this matchup, ALWAYS TAKE SUMMER BLOOM!! Steven Speck released an article saying that is the mistake almost every player makes. Summer bloom is the threat. We can decay the amulet if its a problem, but generally it slows them down a ton to take bloom. It is what makes GBx a favorable matchup for amulet, is that single mistake.
BW tokens: Cut 4 voice 3 path to exile for 3 Engineered Explosives 2 Zealous Persecution 2 Nature's Claim 20 matches played against it all 20 won
Tokens blanks spot removal, so path comes out. Decay stays in to hit anthems as the 1/1's are terrible against us, the 2/2's and 3/3's however are a different story. Voice isnt needed as most of the things they do are in the air and are sorcery speed and they dont run enough removal to justify it. Engineered explosives just wins games when it comes in. Persecution is often a board wipe but it also screws with combat math and again just wins games. Nature's Claim at worst hits scullers to stall, but it is mostly a way to deal with hate and hit anthems.
Zoo: Cut 4 thoughtseize 2 inquisition 3 tidehollow for 3 scavenging ooze 3 engineered explosives 3 lingering souls 40 tested matches (30 tribal 10 naya) won all of the naya won 27 tribal
Souls is a clock with township as well as blockers to stall as every turn matters. Engineered explosives is often game over for them, and scooze is terrible for them as lifegain as well as blanking snapcaster mages. Hand disruption isnt good here as it normally just takes a creature that gets outclassed by ours anyway.
GR tron: cut 4 decay for 2 stony silence 2 Nature's Claim 6 matches played lost one game
Stony silence is the ***** against tron. In addition, claim is fantastic for us as it hits early dorks as well as wurmcoil and its tokens and O stone. Decay has few targets. This matchup is bad on paper, but in practice we keep them off tron a ton and provide a clock. They cant go over the top if tron isnt complete! It does help I played against it quite a bit prior to this deck and even used to play it for about 9 months.
U tron: cut 4 decay 3 finks for 2 stony silence 2 Nature's Claim 3 Scavenging Ooze
This is only here for if you play MTGO (I only play paper as I dont feel like wasting money on an online version where there is little payoff).
Stony is better here as it shuts off mindslaver and the mana accelerants they have, as does nature's claim but it also hits platinum angel. scavenging ooze shuts off snapcaster, the mindslaver combo, and provides a clock when all else fails. U tron has trouble against aggro, and this would be no different.
Living End: 3 scavenging Ooze in cut 3 thoughtseize
The only spells you care about are 3 CMC; the cascade enablers, fulminator mage, and blood moon. This could go either way for us as we can disrupt them with scooze and make them dig for the combo. If they get it fast enough, we lose. This is untested but is such a little part of the meta anyway that if it really is a problem I can suggest ways to tweak the board to beat it.
Blue Moon: Cut 3 Thoughtsieze 4 Sculler 3 Path for 2 zealous persecution 3 lingering souls 2 nature's claim 3 engineered explosives 5 matches 4 won
Blood moon and shackles as well as batterskull are all hit by claim, and 2 of those are hit by nature's claim. Souls provides a clock and blanks removal. Zealous screws with combat math, and deals with an increasing win con in the form of master of waves. It was in the original and it is in this one to.
Merfolk: Cut 4 sculler 2 voice for 3 engineeered explosives 3 lingering souls 3 matches 3 won
Souls forces them to have a spreading seas after our disruption to win. In addition, Engineered Explosives on 2 spells game over. Sculler gets hit by vapor snag and cant really attack or block much, so he is the worst here. He also gets hit with our explosives. Voice is cut as explosives hits it and there are few counterspellls merfolk runs. This is favorable for us.
Ad Nauseam: 4 voice for 2 stony silence 2 nature's claim. 3 matches 3 won
Hand disruption is a ***** for them, and we can get under leyline or destroy it with nature's claim. Claim also hits phyrexian unlife as well as the other mana rocks. Stony silence means game over. No spellskite to protect things, no lotus bloom, and no mana rocks. Voice is literally useless here.
Storm: 2 nature's claim 3 engineered explosives 3 scavenging ooze cutting 3 path 4 voice 2 rhino.
This is an untested matchup, however this is favorable. We have a ton of disruption preboard to stop the bombs from sticking. Post board, scooze deals with past in flames shennanigans. If they try and combo off fast with warrens, engineered explosives takes care of it and they lose from there. Explosives also takes care of ascension and electromancer. Nature's Claim beats the things they will board. We also have a clock thats low curve.
Scapeshift: cut 4 decay 2 inquisition for 3 scavenging ooze 3 lingering souls 10 matches played 8 won
Souls is a clock on its own that blanks counters. We have so much disruption and such a fast clock that the only way they have won every game against me is when they chained 4 cryptics in a row. Scooze hits snapcaster mages as well as is a clock. I like taking the enablers of scapeshift instead of scapeshift or if they have a slower hand the cryptic someitmes being taken spells instant win.
Bogles: cut 3 path 4 voice for 3 Engineered Explosives 2 Nature's Claim 2 Zealous Persecution 2 matches won both
This is super favorable. Zealuos persecution turn 2 often means game over as they lost the creature to suit up with. Explosives also spells game over. Hand disruption preboard is great but post board they board in leyline which isnt terrible against us but at worst we can natures claim it when we need to. Often though, we dont care about leyline and we just destroy an enchantment when they go for corronet and only try to keep the creatures at bay as a 1/1. This spells almost sure victory.
The mirror: cut 4 thoughtseize 2 inquisition 2 sculler for 3 lingering souils 3 scavenging ooze 2 zealous persecution
Persecution is great at screwing up combat math and wiping the opponents board as they always run the dork version. Souls is a clock and can block at worst. Scavenging ooze screws with other souls , is a great topdeck on its own, and is lifegain. I feel we are favored as we have more disruption then they do and we run manlands so we go bigger. The only not bad hand disruption here is sculler as it exiles liege or smiter or even rhino. I do feel although we seem favored, this becomes hand dependent and skill dependent.
This was my first primer so anything I can do better would be great feedback . I hope this helped and you enjoyed as I worked hard on this and spent a while typing it up! Now that this has been done, I would LOVE if people would give my list a try. If you want to use this, one note is you have to print out the guide as you can use a paper one but not your phone. Dont knock it till you try it! This should do well for you. Any questions please let me know and I would like to remind you guys I playtest against people from all over the world via skype and would love to talk to you guys more as the creator of the archtype to maybe do a chat with one of you, make a podcast on it or modern that im thinking of starting, or maybe even makingg a large skype playgroup for all players of the deck.
One last request, I would love it if you considered adding my version to the primer now that results have been posted. I also want to remind I only test normally with either people who have been to the pro tour, are moderators of big name sites, top 8ed larger scale tournaments, or know the deck they play very well. This means the testing in my eyes is valid due to the sheer number of matches and skill cap. I love this community and hope more people use this deck!
-AJ
If you want any help from me in preparation for the tournaments I would love to man. Let me know. I have a huge Skype playgroup who all contribute and I am so up for talking to you about it.
You've converted a D&T/ Hatebear player. I look forward to seeing this archetype climb the tiers.
I vote we call it Little Liege as well.
I JUST FIGURED OUT OUR NEW NAME! LIEGE RHINO! Anyone else in?
Trons a tough match-up. No deck can have 50/50 across the board, and their a hard one to beat. I think playing Aven in the side seems pretty good.
Sorry I haven't been around guys, non MTG projects have been getting my attention. I'll continue posting my indepth testing results again soon.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
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