My thoughts are if the deck plays 23 land, 7 4 drops besides CC (4 Rhino 3 Liege), and about 7 non creature spells, and say 3 CC that leaves 20 targets (23 + 7 + 7 + 3 = 40) for it, which may or may not be enough. If we cut down to 6 non creature spells main and 2 CC, that'd be 22 targets. Which may very well be enough, I don't know.
That's when the deck becomes clunky. To have it 70 percent of the time not whiff in, you need 30 targets according to Tyler. I don't like it here, if you want another she'll that's fine but this shell isn't going to do it well to me.
They value more speed in an unknown meta forcing people to react to them. However, I feel the best way to stop an unknown meta is to have versatile threats, a ton of versatile disruption, and consistency over speed. I stop speed while having it they have slightly more speed. I suggest my version I have tested it to death and have an insane win percentage. Plus, people like what's popular, so if a version top 8s the pro tour, people will play it. After testing his version, honestly mine has been way better.
That's when the deck becomes clunky. To have it 70 percent of the time not whiff in, you need 30 targets according to Tyler. I don't like it here, if you want another she'll that's fine but this shell isn't going to do it well to me.
That's not true. Aazadan put up the math in the spoilers thread:
30 - 90%
27 - 85%
25 - 80%
23 - 75%
21 - 70%
So by playing 23 targets (4 Smiter, 4 Finks, 4 Voice, 2-3 Qasali is a pretty good start) we've got a great chance at hitting 2 targets. It also makes playing singletons ect. stronger and more consistent, getting you to sideboard creatures that you need for a specific match.
And I respect Emracool's version and I think it's good, but the version I've tested has been great for me too. There are times that I know if I was playing the version without dorks and with Scullers, I would have lost. I think it's way to early to say if one version of the deck is the best or not.
Is there a reason, Anafenza, the Foremost is not considered in this deck? 4/4 for three mana and with a relevant ability looks good in this deck. What am I missing?
I don't think anybody's tried it yet is why honestly! If you can swing the colors for her, she seems fine as Loxodon Smiter 5 or 5&6. The deck has plenty of other ways to pump, but adding more pumping wouldn't hurt the deck. Her hatebear ability is useful too, although not great, so if you like her I'd say test her away! I think she's plenty strong. Not crazy, but I think she seems playable.
In total I played 20 games; 10 on the play and 10 on the draw with each deck. I did no games sideboarded; I could if I had time and got some advise for sideboarding from the AN side of things.
STATS
My raw statistics;
Overall Little Kid Win Rate: 50%
-On the Play: 6/4
-On the Draw: 5/5
Little Kid win turn: 7.4
AN win turn: 5.2
AN turns: 4, 4, 5, 8, 7, 4, 4, 7, 4, 5
Little Kid turns: 6, 6, 7, 8, 7, 9, 9, 11, 5, 6
Reason for Little Kid Wins:
*Beats: 2
*Disruption/Beats: 8
Reason for AN Wins:
*Combo: 10
Average LK life at win: Like 7 or 15 based on mana, irrelevant
Average AN life at win: Varied majorly, often 1, often ~15
DISCUSSION
There honestly isn't that much for me to cover in this match-up, as long as one understands how both decks function. AN can combo off at instant speed with 6 mana and 2 cards in hand. Simian Spirit Guide makes it harder to predict. Using Qasali Pridemage and Abrupt Decay on Lotus Bloom is almost always a good idea, but if their going off that turn they sacrifice it in response and then win the game. You should destroy the Lotus Bloom as soon as possible; it's critical to do it on their upkeep before they draw for the turn to reduce the chance they can go off in response.
Discard is also very important here; bring everything you've got. In this match a list like Emracool's would be stronger than mine do to a significantly higher amount of disruption. Discard is the most important thing in this match for disruption, followed by a clock. Here's the priority of discard, from my experience:
*If they have 2 Ad Nauseam and 2 Phyrexian Unlife/Angel's Grace, take mana sources and dig. Know that you're on a tight clock.
*If they have 2 of one half of the combo and 1 of the other, take the one.
*If they have 1 of each half, take Ad Nauseam; they only run 4 of those compared to ~6 of the other half.
*If they have 1 combo piece, take it.
*If they have 2 Ad Nauseam and none of the other half of the combo, take cantrips.
*If they have 0 Ad Nauseam and 2 of Angel's Grace/Unlife, take Angel's Grace. Otherwise, they'll use it to buy time against you.
*If you're on the play, it's almost always correct to take Lotus Bloom turn 1.
Ad Nauseam won some games by protecting itself before letting lose the combo. Against a moderate boardsate from Little Kid, 10 life might as well be 1, so both sides need to be aware of LK's explosiveness compared to AN's ability to Angel's Grace no matter the situation. All 3 of Ad Nauseam's wins past turn 5 were do to this sort of protection, and it bought time for a fighting chance in several of it's loses.
Our explosiveness is useful here, and closing out the game on turn 5 or 6 is very possible. I hate to say it, but that's not fast enough sometimes. Play A is disrupt them. Plan B is blitz.
When preparing for this deck, here are some of my suggestions in addition to the discard guide above.
*Targeted discard is very important. Add more to the deck/side if you're concerned.
*Unless you have worthless cards, I don't think I'd recommend you bring in Leyline of Sanctity. They bring in Patrician's Scorn post-sideboard which makes it dead.
*Graveyard hate is questionable. Some lists do run Conflagrate in addition to Lightning Storm, but it does nothing to stop the main combo.
*Be as fast as you can. Pure speed doesn't ensure a win, but if they stumble, it can cover for a lack of disruption.
*Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker shut off Lightning Storm's ability. Suppression Field does the same thing. If you think this deck will show up in your meta, consider these as they splash hate against some other decks as well.
I hope this breakdown helps you guys a little. This deck is tier 2 for a reason, and although it's not the most popular, knowing how to play around it is important.
I agree about disruption then blitz. My list focuses on doing that as much as I possibly can consistently. I feel it's correct in most if not all matches to disrupt first. Against aggro, slowing them down is vital. Against combo, disrupt and win. Against control, strip them of the answers then go to town. Even against midrange, trying to clear the coast to try and win is a good idea preboard. We are favored in midrange decks anyway but the fundamental idea of my list is not as much aggro and more clear the coast first for more blowouts and consistency butless explosiveness (dont get me wrong I still win pretty frequently turn 5 or 6 even with disruption). The traditional version of this deck I found has an unfavorable twin matchup due to lack of disruption and the birds being easily dealt with. However, I lost to twin in 21 recorded matches in 1 mmatch. I do understand if your list has done well for you as a whole in this thread, but I do urge to at least proxy up my list and try something new. I feel at the end it comes to preference of playstyle.
I've played a total of 20 games pre-sideboard; 10 on the play, 10 on the draw. All games were conducted with understanding of their gameplans; while I'd played Twin before, I did a few hours of studying and a few hours of practice to ensure I'd be able to pilot it well enough to test.
I did no games sideboarded for time issues and because I'd like to get feedback on who people would sideboard in this match-up before I do.
Overall Little Kid Win Rate: 50%
-On the Play: 7/3
-On the Draw: 3/7
Little Kid win turn: 6.7
Twin win turn: 6.8
Little Kid turns: 6, 6, 7, 5, 6, 6, 11, 6, 7, 7
Twin turns: 4, 6, 6, 7, 9, 5, 7, 8, 8, 8
Reason for Little Kid Wins:
*Disruption/Beats: 5
*Blitz/Tempo: 3
*Out Grind: 2
Reason for Twin Wins:
*Combo: 7
*Tempo: 3
Average LK life at win: Often 12 - 15+, only low on few occasions
Average Twin life at win: ~ 5 - 10
DISCUSSION
As can be seen in the match results, being on the play was critical in victory. All 3 of Twins wins listed under "Tempo" above came from being on the play. On the draw, the Twin deck simply couldn't put any real pressure on Little Kid. Little Kid gains too much life between Finks and Rhino and is extremely explosive on the offense which prevented Twin from being proactive at all. In every game where the path to victory was tempo/bolt-snap-bolt, and Twin was on the draw, it just couldn't get there.
The combo is hard to fight with. 4x Decay backed up by Qasali, Thoughtseize, and Path did work and prevented it a few times, but weren't always enough. Little Kid just had to do the best it could to always defend against it, while putting on major aggression at the same time. Our deck has plenty of threats and some of them are extremely sticky, but it's important to make sure you don't get lost in the rush and keep up combo defense whenever you can.
In terms of going to the late game, Twin had no option. One game I had Lighthouse going for a few turns, landed Vendillon Clique and got cryptic-snap-cryptic, but a dragged out victory seems extremely hard to achieve without early oppression and a fairly quick tempo finish. Little Kid can generate major board presence quickly, and we have so many more powerful late game cards than they do that each turn it goes on and they don't combo, we're closer to victory.
Really the game was mostly a tempo race. Whoever got the strongest early plays would proceed to crush the other, baring games where LK didn't draw disruption and Twin got a late combo off. Ensuring the early games was very important. On the draw it's hard as hell to keep up with the sometimes, but I was able to a few times. More than anything, loses came from the combo.
Here's some sideboarding advise:
*They might try bringing in heavy value hitters like Keranos, God of Storms, Batterskull, and/or Jace, Architect of Thought. Be prepared to either smash them before these cards matter or just go over the top of them harder.
*Twin sometimes takes out part of the combo for these cards. They still have it in the deck, but it might be harder for them to go off with it.
*Bring in additional discard, Qasali, and instant speed removal. You want cards that both fight the combo and help in other ways. You can't just 100% focus on hating the combo, or else you'll lose to their tempo game. Deglamer is amazing because it stops their sideboard haymakers and also fights the combo.
*Restoration Angel is a boss in this match up. Flash and large enough to survive bolt while blocking all their threats. Yes please.
*Suppression Field helps. Pithing Needle must name a creature, not Splinter Twin. Otherwise, they combo off as Twin has no activated ability, but gives one.
*Mind your life total. They often struggle to kill you fairly, but they can.
*As for siding out card, Lingering Souls is only OK here. I also thought Wilt-Leaf Liege was slow enough that you could consider taking it out if you have other threats like Resto.
Overall I feel like this is a very winnable, very loseable match-up. If you expect Twin, play 4x Decay, more discard, more Qasali, and threats with flash.
Next up, I'll either take a look at Jund, Merfolk, or perhaps affinity.
Out of those, affinity is the most competitive so test with that. Against twin (including post board for me) I found it was an easy matchup. The tempo plan as you stated isn't fantastic against us, but the combo is. However, my vversion literally ensures there is very little chance they combo off with the pressure and disruption my version has provided. I don't like the pridemage plan in terms of disruption because bolt is a seriously played card. It hasbeen heavily in the favor for me as a ddisruption and pressure deck. I normally don't tap out much you literally wait untill you can land one threat then ride it to victory holding disruption and if they deal with it land another.They dodon't win much then. Also, unless it's affinity, twin ALWAYS boards out ton of the combo due to the hate the player against them brings in is dead and they become more a control deck with a top end card. Thus
, be prepared every time to not see the combo much at all, but dealing with keratos etc.
I like suppression field a lot as a SB option. It hurts a lot of decks. Partial shuts down tron's maps, stops twin combo, makes Lavaman almost a no go, make scooze silly and does really nothing to us. Makes man lands much worse too.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Hey there... I didnt know this deck was a thing untill a friend commented he saw an non-rock junk deck similar to what i built to go up against pod since it was pwning my meta! I was trying to find a deck with a good matchup and i liked wgb rock but was lacking Lilli and a few tidbits like goyfs. So i came up with a 'podless pod' since i loved the value it played for which was the reason pod was so good.
For consistency I had to run multiples since it wasn't a toolbox...but i couldnt get my hands on everything i needed (Hence the 2 Rhino rather than 4). So i thought why not run my flicker package from DnT/hatebears: 4 aether vial 4 flickerwisp 3 Restoration angel. Its an insane amount of fun to flicker a rhino a few times... or a finks when your on the ropes.
The lists im seeing here look great(probably better than mine lol). So ill be trying out the no dork list by tomorrow or i may just get some noble hierarch... i guess. Im in love with WGB since i started playing Doran EDH (teying annafenza currently). Heres my jank list for the sake of it... lol.
My version coincidentally is like 300 cheaper so in terms of budget my disruption version is the way to go. I suggest if you want to play the dork versions trade the things like vial for hierarchs.
I've been testing th deck with collected company, no rhino, and more three drops. Collected company is insane, I think it is much better than wilt lief or rhino if you build around it. Getting a smiter plus a voice at instant speed is just absolutely insane.
Knight of the reliquary has been underperforming though, I might just drop black and go naya for wooly loctar and wild nacatl. Also considering a hatebears shell.
My version I have yet to lose a game to TRON upto mmassive amounts of disruption and a clock. I had played TRON for about a year though so that might help. I feel TRON is on paper a bad matchup, but a good one if you know what to take and sequencing.
Powerhawk, I agree the card is insane. I also agree the deck is an entirely different deck as it has gotten me killer results, it doesn't lose its disruption and is less fragile against disruption as you run subpar disruption with naya and thus less resiliency without adding consistency to your mana base the mana is just as consistent. I feel it becomes so all in on the card. I personally will be sticking to my deck. I do think the best shell is naya run the big three drops and even a nacatyl. In addition Township. Let me know how it works out when you release a list I will test it and see what I would change.
@Emracool, can you explain you sideboard choices? I am guessing that Explosives is for tokens, affinity and boggles. I am not sure what Scavenging Ooze is specifically targeting. Flash back targets and shrinking goyf?
Also, has anyone consider Night of Souls' Betrayal for a SB card? I think it fits the discard version better, but it seems like it would be really good in the mirror, kills all dorks, tokens, absolutely hoses twin.
I did some testing with your list Emracool, and I felt it struggled a lot. Control decks just hosed me. I was ok against twin, but it wasn't great. Can you give some idea how you have been playing?
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Scooze is the graveyard hate that doesn't hurt us, kills flashback targets, is pressure on its own. I considered night of souls betrayal and Tyler originally suggested it, but we found with only limited black sources, it wasn't consistently able to be cast. Plus, the matchups it's good against I have not had a problem with.
I'm surprised you were bad against control as I have yet to lose a a game in 30 matches against it. These were all against super experienced pilots. In addition, I have tested against twin the most and the US version and the RuG version are very favorable for me. Geist twin however is 50-50 as if they can stall enough they can get it. The thing about my list is in order to play it optimally you need to know when to play what kind of style. Against control, I literally just stick a voice or smiter and just go to town. Plus, stripping their hand of resources is very good for us. I would love to do a playtest session with everyone on the sub via Skype and I can answer questions and show line of play. The dorks version is way more simple to play so experience is key. Another example, against twin, literally clear the way for a big threat to resolve or disrupt the combo, resolve the threat and literally just never tap out again. My list requires knowing when to sequence what and what your role is. Once that's down, you will have no problem. I figured out my roles when playing pod for years. The main problem with my list is if you misplay once it could mean death. If interested, I would love to write an extensive article this week on my deck list and a detailed matchup analysis and how I would sideboard and why etc (a primer on my list). I have had a recorded 95 percent win rate in 200 competitive playtesting matches or tournament.
If anyone wants to bounce ideas around, talk about the archtype, playtest, or just hang out and discuss magic: PM your skype and I would love to add you and talk about the archtype.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
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That's not true. Aazadan put up the math in the spoilers thread:
30 - 90%
27 - 85%
25 - 80%
23 - 75%
21 - 70%
So by playing 23 targets (4 Smiter, 4 Finks, 4 Voice, 2-3 Qasali is a pretty good start) we've got a great chance at hitting 2 targets. It also makes playing singletons ect. stronger and more consistent, getting you to sideboard creatures that you need for a specific match.
And I respect Emracool's version and I think it's good, but the version I've tested has been great for me too. There are times that I know if I was playing the version without dorks and with Scullers, I would have lost. I think it's way to early to say if one version of the deck is the best or not.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
I don't think anybody's tried it yet is why honestly! If you can swing the colors for her, she seems fine as Loxodon Smiter 5 or 5&6. The deck has plenty of other ways to pump, but adding more pumping wouldn't hurt the deck. Her hatebear ability is useful too, although not great, so if you like her I'd say test her away! I think she's plenty strong. Not crazy, but I think she seems playable.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
LISTS
This is the list I used for AN, from a tournament where it got top 8 out of over 150 competitors. http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/183525
And here's my decklist I used for testing.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Lingering Souls
4 Siege Rhino
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Spells - 10
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
3 Thoughtseize
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Temple Garden
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
3 Duress
2 Fracturing Gust
1 Nature's Claim
1 Path to Exile
3 Rest in Peace
2 Restoration Angel
2 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
In total I played 20 games; 10 on the play and 10 on the draw with each deck. I did no games sideboarded; I could if I had time and got some advise for sideboarding from the AN side of things.
STATS
My raw statistics;
Overall Little Kid Win Rate: 50%
-On the Play: 6/4
-On the Draw: 5/5
Little Kid win turn: 7.4
AN win turn: 5.2
AN turns: 4, 4, 5, 8, 7, 4, 4, 7, 4, 5
Little Kid turns: 6, 6, 7, 8, 7, 9, 9, 11, 5, 6
Reason for Little Kid Wins:
*Beats: 2
*Disruption/Beats: 8
Reason for AN Wins:
*Combo: 10
Average LK life at win: Like 7 or 15 based on mana, irrelevant
Average AN life at win: Varied majorly, often 1, often ~15
DISCUSSION
There honestly isn't that much for me to cover in this match-up, as long as one understands how both decks function. AN can combo off at instant speed with 6 mana and 2 cards in hand. Simian Spirit Guide makes it harder to predict. Using Qasali Pridemage and Abrupt Decay on Lotus Bloom is almost always a good idea, but if their going off that turn they sacrifice it in response and then win the game. You should destroy the Lotus Bloom as soon as possible; it's critical to do it on their upkeep before they draw for the turn to reduce the chance they can go off in response.
Discard is also very important here; bring everything you've got. In this match a list like Emracool's would be stronger than mine do to a significantly higher amount of disruption. Discard is the most important thing in this match for disruption, followed by a clock. Here's the priority of discard, from my experience:
*If they have 2 Ad Nauseam and 2 Phyrexian Unlife/Angel's Grace, take mana sources and dig. Know that you're on a tight clock.
*If they have 2 of one half of the combo and 1 of the other, take the one.
*If they have 1 of each half, take Ad Nauseam; they only run 4 of those compared to ~6 of the other half.
*If they have 1 combo piece, take it.
*If they have 2 Ad Nauseam and none of the other half of the combo, take cantrips.
*If they have 0 Ad Nauseam and 2 of Angel's Grace/Unlife, take Angel's Grace. Otherwise, they'll use it to buy time against you.
*If you're on the play, it's almost always correct to take Lotus Bloom turn 1.
Ad Nauseam won some games by protecting itself before letting lose the combo. Against a moderate boardsate from Little Kid, 10 life might as well be 1, so both sides need to be aware of LK's explosiveness compared to AN's ability to Angel's Grace no matter the situation. All 3 of Ad Nauseam's wins past turn 5 were do to this sort of protection, and it bought time for a fighting chance in several of it's loses.
Our explosiveness is useful here, and closing out the game on turn 5 or 6 is very possible. I hate to say it, but that's not fast enough sometimes. Play A is disrupt them. Plan B is blitz.
When preparing for this deck, here are some of my suggestions in addition to the discard guide above.
*Targeted discard is very important. Add more to the deck/side if you're concerned.
*Unless you have worthless cards, I don't think I'd recommend you bring in Leyline of Sanctity. They bring in Patrician's Scorn post-sideboard which makes it dead.
*Graveyard hate is questionable. Some lists do run Conflagrate in addition to Lightning Storm, but it does nothing to stop the main combo.
*Be as fast as you can. Pure speed doesn't ensure a win, but if they stumble, it can cover for a lack of disruption.
*Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker shut off Lightning Storm's ability. Suppression Field does the same thing. If you think this deck will show up in your meta, consider these as they splash hate against some other decks as well.
I hope this breakdown helps you guys a little. This deck is tier 2 for a reason, and although it's not the most popular, knowing how to play around it is important.
Next up, I'll be doing UR Twin.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
I've played a total of 20 games pre-sideboard; 10 on the play, 10 on the draw. All games were conducted with understanding of their gameplans; while I'd played Twin before, I did a few hours of studying and a few hours of practice to ensure I'd be able to pilot it well enough to test.
I did no games sideboarded for time issues and because I'd like to get feedback on who people would sideboard in this match-up before I do.
DECKS
This is the Splinter Twin decklist I used; http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9234&d=253004&f=MO
And this is my Little Kid decklist.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Loxodon Smiter
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Lingering Souls
4 Siege Rhino
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Spells - 10
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
3 Thoughtseize
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Temple Garden
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
3 Duress
2 Fracturing Gust
1 Nature's Claim
1 Path to Exile
3 Rest in Peace
2 Restoration Angel
2 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
STATISTICS
Overall Little Kid Win Rate: 50%
-On the Play: 7/3
-On the Draw: 3/7
Little Kid win turn: 6.7
Twin win turn: 6.8
Little Kid turns: 6, 6, 7, 5, 6, 6, 11, 6, 7, 7
Twin turns: 4, 6, 6, 7, 9, 5, 7, 8, 8, 8
Reason for Little Kid Wins:
*Disruption/Beats: 5
*Blitz/Tempo: 3
*Out Grind: 2
Reason for Twin Wins:
*Combo: 7
*Tempo: 3
Average LK life at win: Often 12 - 15+, only low on few occasions
Average Twin life at win: ~ 5 - 10
DISCUSSION
As can be seen in the match results, being on the play was critical in victory. All 3 of Twins wins listed under "Tempo" above came from being on the play. On the draw, the Twin deck simply couldn't put any real pressure on Little Kid. Little Kid gains too much life between Finks and Rhino and is extremely explosive on the offense which prevented Twin from being proactive at all. In every game where the path to victory was tempo/bolt-snap-bolt, and Twin was on the draw, it just couldn't get there.
The combo is hard to fight with. 4x Decay backed up by Qasali, Thoughtseize, and Path did work and prevented it a few times, but weren't always enough. Little Kid just had to do the best it could to always defend against it, while putting on major aggression at the same time. Our deck has plenty of threats and some of them are extremely sticky, but it's important to make sure you don't get lost in the rush and keep up combo defense whenever you can.
In terms of going to the late game, Twin had no option. One game I had Lighthouse going for a few turns, landed Vendillon Clique and got cryptic-snap-cryptic, but a dragged out victory seems extremely hard to achieve without early oppression and a fairly quick tempo finish. Little Kid can generate major board presence quickly, and we have so many more powerful late game cards than they do that each turn it goes on and they don't combo, we're closer to victory.
Really the game was mostly a tempo race. Whoever got the strongest early plays would proceed to crush the other, baring games where LK didn't draw disruption and Twin got a late combo off. Ensuring the early games was very important. On the draw it's hard as hell to keep up with the sometimes, but I was able to a few times. More than anything, loses came from the combo.
Here's some sideboarding advise:
*They might try bringing in heavy value hitters like Keranos, God of Storms, Batterskull, and/or Jace, Architect of Thought. Be prepared to either smash them before these cards matter or just go over the top of them harder.
*Twin sometimes takes out part of the combo for these cards. They still have it in the deck, but it might be harder for them to go off with it.
*Bring in additional discard, Qasali, and instant speed removal. You want cards that both fight the combo and help in other ways. You can't just 100% focus on hating the combo, or else you'll lose to their tempo game. Deglamer is amazing because it stops their sideboard haymakers and also fights the combo.
*Restoration Angel is a boss in this match up. Flash and large enough to survive bolt while blocking all their threats. Yes please.
*Suppression Field helps. Pithing Needle must name a creature, not Splinter Twin. Otherwise, they combo off as Twin has no activated ability, but gives one.
*Mind your life total. They often struggle to kill you fairly, but they can.
*As for siding out card, Lingering Souls is only OK here. I also thought Wilt-Leaf Liege was slow enough that you could consider taking it out if you have other threats like Resto.
Overall I feel like this is a very winnable, very loseable match-up. If you expect Twin, play 4x Decay, more discard, more Qasali, and threats with flash.
Next up, I'll either take a look at Jund, Merfolk, or perhaps affinity.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
, be prepared every time to not see the combo much at all, but dealing with keratos etc.
For consistency I had to run multiples since it wasn't a toolbox...but i couldnt get my hands on everything i needed (Hence the 2 Rhino rather than 4). So i thought why not run my flicker package from DnT/hatebears: 4 aether vial 4 flickerwisp 3 Restoration angel. Its an insane amount of fun to flicker a rhino a few times... or a finks when your on the ropes.
The lists im seeing here look great(probably better than mine lol). So ill be trying out the no dork list by tomorrow or i may just get some noble hierarch... i guess. Im in love with WGB since i started playing Doran EDH (teying annafenza currently). Heres my jank list for the sake of it... lol.
Dont be too harsh it was fun to play!
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Aether vial
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Siege Rhino
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Thoughtseize
3 Path to Exile
Thanks for reading...
Knight of the reliquary has been underperforming though, I might just drop black and go naya for wooly loctar and wild nacatl. Also considering a hatebears shell.
Legacy: Maverick
Powerhawk, I agree the card is insane. I also agree the deck is an entirely different deck as it has gotten me killer results, it doesn't lose its disruption and is less fragile against disruption as you run subpar disruption with naya and thus less resiliency without adding consistency to your mana base the mana is just as consistent. I feel it becomes so all in on the card. I personally will be sticking to my deck. I do think the best shell is naya run the big three drops and even a nacatyl. In addition Township. Let me know how it works out when you release a list I will test it and see what I would change.
Also, has anyone consider Night of Souls' Betrayal for a SB card? I think it fits the discard version better, but it seems like it would be really good in the mirror, kills all dorks, tokens, absolutely hoses twin.
I did some testing with your list Emracool, and I felt it struggled a lot. Control decks just hosed me. I was ok against twin, but it wasn't great. Can you give some idea how you have been playing?
I'm surprised you were bad against control as I have yet to lose a a game in 30 matches against it. These were all against super experienced pilots. In addition, I have tested against twin the most and the US version and the RuG version are very favorable for me. Geist twin however is 50-50 as if they can stall enough they can get it. The thing about my list is in order to play it optimally you need to know when to play what kind of style. Against control, I literally just stick a voice or smiter and just go to town. Plus, stripping their hand of resources is very good for us. I would love to do a playtest session with everyone on the sub via Skype and I can answer questions and show line of play. The dorks version is way more simple to play so experience is key. Another example, against twin, literally clear the way for a big threat to resolve or disrupt the combo, resolve the threat and literally just never tap out again. My list requires knowing when to sequence what and what your role is. Once that's down, you will have no problem. I figured out my roles when playing pod for years. The main problem with my list is if you misplay once it could mean death. If interested, I would love to write an extensive article this week on my deck list and a detailed matchup analysis and how I would sideboard and why etc (a primer on my list). I have had a recorded 95 percent win rate in 200 competitive playtesting matches or tournament.
If anyone wants to bounce ideas around, talk about the archtype, playtest, or just hang out and discuss magic: PM your skype and I would love to add you and talk about the archtype.