Man I really like this version. That looks super solid. I have always detested the Keranos/Batterskull that everyone plays. Just 5 mana sorcery speed spells are not where this deck wants to be. Terminate in the main is VERY good too, there are just too many x/4+'s now, bolt alone just doesn't cut it. I'm not sure when what matchups you want the thoughtseizes in the board, but the rest looks great.
The list looks good although I prefer having the Tasigurs main board. I would be curious to hear his logic behind the SB Tasigurs & Thoughtseizes and which match up he likes them in. I do like increasing the number of main deck Terminates.
@CapBubble: I don't know anyone with it ($4 a week is way too much in my option). However the VS video he did last month should be just about ready to go free.
I know this got discussed a while ago but with Dragons out now what do people think about Anticipate? I am going to try out 3 in the main board next Friday.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
His reasoning is that in game 1, UR twin is at its best. You're way more consistent and the combo is more powerful. Post board you turn into Grixis control, and the tasigurs are there over batterskull/keranos because those are too expensive.
That makes sense, it would be interesting to see how he sideboards in each match. it is a shame he doesn't record his twitch streams (if he streams MTG at all).
I will keep the 4 Serum Visions. The Anticipates are going to be taking up the normal Thought Scour slots.
I haven't had a chance to work out the finale list but it might look something like this:
Lord knows what the sideboard is going to looks like at this point, although I am hoping to get my hands on 3 Gifts Ungiven to try out the Gifts package.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
@artyom- gifts? Sick. I've been doing the same thing, Kolaghan's command and Rise/Fall can make for some really awesome gifts targets to make sure you get what you want. (They can raise dead your snapcaster or Tasigur if they bin them from the gifts)
I hadn't thought about that just replacing the thought scours with anticipate. You're not running grim lavamancer, so you'll probably do just fine without them. I think the difference in power between the scours and anticipates is worth losing he chance of turn 2 Tasigur.
I am really looking forward to testing it out although I don't like my odds of being able to pick them up locally in a hurry, so that may need to wait for a couple weeks.
I'm not too worried about casting Tasigur on turn 2. The few times I have been able to cast him early I find myself needing to hold up removal or disruption against decks like Infect or Re-animator. But then again I prefer to play draw-go until I run them out of resources and then starting threatening them with Tasigur and/or the combo.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
The first 2 decklists feel like they were almost pre-boarded against the GBx decks (look at that main board Batterskull), which certainly makes sense considering the expected meta game at the Pro Tour. The recent list he 4-0'd the daily with is a massive change. A full 4 copies of Twin, 4 Exarch and 2 Pestermite in the mainboard with most of the "midrange" option in the side board. I don't play much MODO so I don't know the online meta game all that well but I assume that this is a concession to the rise less interactive decks like Infect, Amulet Bloom and Burn, were the combo is more viable then trying to grind your opponent out.
I personally prefer the combo heavy version of the deck in the current meta game (and certainly in my local meta) however that makes me question the usefulness of 4 Bolts main board if sending them to the dome is less important. While historically Bolt has been one of the best cards in the format it currently only kills 4 out of the 10 most played creatures in modern, and 3 of those are in burn. I have shaved a bolt and some of the counter magic for some discard and been very happy.
I think that the most robust version of the deck lies somewhere between these 2 extremes. What does everyone else think?
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I think the more combo heavy version is best currently, as ur is normally really freakin good. however, I definitely think tasigur is worth it maindeck, Seems odd to have it sideboarded honestly. Maybe I just like the card too much in a personal way but he does work for me maindeck.
Id mainboard 2 tech edges if tron is in your meta. Then just rely on your sideboard land hate to do its job. You should be siding in ancient grudges against them pretty aggressively as well.
mono u tron is an abysmally bad match up. If you have lots of it in the meta you shouldnt be playing rug twin. Cheap countermagic, ancient grudge, and other artifact removal spells are great general answers. Blood moon and sowing salt are some mana denial answers. Thrun is obviously great if you can untap but I have generally found an early goyf and cheap countermagic or jamming the combo are the only ways to try and fight the matchup
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Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
How do people feel about Raging Ravine? I've been trying out 2 in my tarmotwin build (23 lands, no colorless sources) and they've actually been pretty useful, winning me several games I would not have won otherwise and the drawback not costing me any games. It's certainly nice to build up a creature army and have yet another guy to swing in with. Plus, if you can get multiple attacks in he starts to get very tough for people to deal with. The activation is kind of a lot, but it's definitely helped me out in situations where I've been stalling out and want to keep pressure on the board state. It's also pretty nice to attack down a Liliana. I tend to sideboard into a lot of creatures, so I find that it's even more useful in post-board games.
What has other people's experience (or not) with the card been?
How do people feel about Raging Ravine? I've been trying out 2 in my tarmotwin build (23 lands, no colorless sources) and they've actually been pretty useful, winning me several games I would not have won otherwise and the drawback not costing me any games. It's certainly nice to build up a creature army and have yet another guy to swing in with. Plus, if you can get multiple attacks in he starts to get very tough for people to deal with. The activation is kind of a lot, but it's definitely helped me out in situations where I've been stalling out and want to keep pressure on the board state. It's also pretty nice to attack down a Liliana. I tend to sideboard into a lot of creatures, so I find that it's even more useful in post-board games.
What has other people's experience (or not) with the card been?
I love Creeping Tar Pit in Grixis Twin, and I've had fairly good results with Faerie Conclave in UR Twin. Part of me suspects that Raging Ravine is a touch too expensive for RUG Twin (especially since my latest RUG Twin list has a late game involving Snapcaster Mage into Collected Company, so I suspect I won't be swinging with manlands often), but as I just implied, RUG Twin does get durdle high mana in some games...
Hi all. Recently started to playtest Grixis Twin and I've been liking it thus far. Need to get mostly the twins and snaps but they will come with time.
B4 dragons became legal I played 2 electrolyze MB but I changed it to 2 Kolaghan's Command. My reasoning was that most games I played I'd rather raise dead a combo piece than draw a random card plus the 2 damage may not be divided but it doesn't have to be. Basically it's always card advantage and it's MB hate against affinity...
I'm already sold on this card but has it been widely accepted in the community?
As far as I can tell, Kolaghan's Command has not been widely accepted. I've tried it myself, and I've found that it's only great if I'm recurring a guy and I'm killing one of their things. The instant-speed discard is subpar unless you're chasing the last card out of their hand (though I must admit that Twin encourages people to leave at least 1 card in hand), and Shocking their face is also subpar. I ended up Shocking their face + discarding too often. I almost want Rise // Fall back--at least Rise // Fall forced more and better cards out of their hand, although its recur-bounce mode is a bit fickle.
Have any of you guys played the card Rise/Fall before? I've been playing it in the side for when we want to become more grindy/control and less tempo/combo. And seriously the card has been insane every time I cast it, either mode is great. Getting back snap and unsummoning their Tasigur, and the other half has been VERY close to hymn to tourach. (Obviously don't cast it turn 2, because they'll have more lands in hand, but around turn 4 it's insane). I've loved the card and was hoping some of you guys would give the card a shot.
Have any of you guys played the card Rise/Fall before? I've been playing it in the side for when we want to become more grindy/control and less tempo/combo. And seriously the card has been insane every time I cast it, either mode is great. Getting back snap and unsummoning their Tasigur, and the other half has been VERY close to hymn to tourach. (Obviously don't cast it turn 2, because they'll have more lands in hand, but around turn 4 it's insane). I've loved the card and was hoping some of you guys would give the card a shot.
Rise // Fall is a pet card of mine in Grixis decks, as it's discard that isn't dead late-game. Rise is a fine "removal" and recur spell, although I've occasionally had to recur one of my opponent's dead guys in order to bounce their guy.
I recently pulled it from my Grixis Twin list to test Kolaghan's Command, though, and I'm starting to think that the two are comparable. Whereas Rise // Fall almost always boots better (and more) cards from hands, K. Command can actually kill stuff (and recur stuff or instant-speed discard at the same time).
I'm just playing both. The Kolaghan's Command in the main (it fits the the mainboard gameplan better) and then the Rise/Falls in the side. I'm glad someone else is appreciating the card. I've seriously gone to 4 in the side, I'm never unhappy to see the card.
@MalkoMan: Well done and thanks for the indepth write up. It is good to see the all-in version pulling it's weight. It is shame you never had a chance to test the Tasigur plan out against an appropriate mtach-up.
Have any of you guys played the card Rise/Fall before? I've been playing it in the side for when we want to become more grindy/control and less tempo/combo. And seriously the card has been insane every time I cast it, either mode is great. Getting back snap and unsummoning their Tasigur, and the other half has been VERY close to hymn to tourach. (Obviously don't cast it turn 2, because they'll have more lands in hand, but around turn 4 it's insane). I've loved the card and was hoping some of you guys would give the card a shot.
I was playing it in my original build and I did like it alot. Much like Lectrys I pulled it to test out Kolaghan's Command, unfortunately between work and my research I haven't been able to play any magic for a couple of weeks. Once I have had a chance to test out Command I will have to have a look at Rise/Fall again. I did always like following up a turn 1 IoK with Fall on turn 2.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I would suggest slow rolling the rise/fall until turn 4 or so, it gives them more chance to play their lands out (unless you see them miss a land drop of course).
Has anybody testing the deck felt like there is too much fluff with the thought scours and tried replacing them with more impactful spells? Especially if Tasigur is SB.
@CapBubble: I don't know anyone with it ($4 a week is way too much in my option). However the VS video he did last month should be just about ready to go free.
I know this got discussed a while ago but with Dragons out now what do people think about Anticipate? I am going to try out 3 in the main board next Friday.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
His reasoning is that in game 1, UR twin is at its best. You're way more consistent and the combo is more powerful. Post board you turn into Grixis control, and the tasigurs are there over batterskull/keranos because those are too expensive.
I will keep the 4 Serum Visions. The Anticipates are going to be taking up the normal Thought Scour slots.
I haven't had a chance to work out the finale list but it might look something like this:
2x Blood Crypt
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Desolate Lighthouse
3x Island
1x Mountain
3x Polluted Delta
3x Scalding Tarn
3x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
3x Watery Grave
3x Splinter Twin
Instant (15)
3x Anticipate
2x Cryptic Command
2x Remand
1x Kolaghan's Command
3x Lightning Bolt
1x Spell Pierce
3x Terminate
4x Deceiver Exarch
2x Pestermite
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Sorcery (7)
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Serum Visions
Lord knows what the sideboard is going to looks like at this point, although I am hoping to get my hands on 3 Gifts Ungiven to try out the Gifts package.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
I hadn't thought about that just replacing the thought scours with anticipate. You're not running grim lavamancer, so you'll probably do just fine without them. I think the difference in power between the scours and anticipates is worth losing he chance of turn 2 Tasigur.
I'm not too worried about casting Tasigur on turn 2. The few times I have been able to cast him early I find myself needing to hold up removal or disruption against decks like Infect or Re-animator. But then again I prefer to play draw-go until I run them out of resources and then starting threatening them with Tasigur and/or the combo.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
Todd Anderson's Versus video just went free:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30337_Todd-VS-BBD-.html
Also, an article he wrote about how he settled on Tasigur Twin for the Pro Tour:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/30276_Tasigur-Twin-At-The-Pro-Tour.html
Here is the last 3 Tasigur Twin decks he has played (that I am aware of):
1 Deceiver Exarch
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Pestermite
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Vendilion Clique
Lands (22)
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Watery Grave
3 Splinter Twin
2 Cryptic Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
2 Terminate
3 Thought Scour
4 Serum Visions
1 Batterskull
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Sower of Temptation
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Counterflux
1 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Vandalblast
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Pestermite
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Vendilion Clique
Lands (22)
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Watery Grave
1 Batterskull
2 Splinter Twin
2 Cryptic Command
1 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
2 Terminate
3 Thought Scour
4 Serum Visions
1 Batterskull
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Forked Bolt
2 Shatterstorm
1 Vandalblast
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Pestermite
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Vendilion Clique
Spells (24)
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
3 Thought Scour
2 Spell Snare
2 Terminate
1 Electrolyze
4 Splinter Twin
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
1 Blood Crypt
1 Watery Grave
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Thoughtseize
2 Vandalblast
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Counterflux
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Negate
I personally prefer the combo heavy version of the deck in the current meta game (and certainly in my local meta) however that makes me question the usefulness of 4 Bolts main board if sending them to the dome is less important. While historically Bolt has been one of the best cards in the format it currently only kills 4 out of the 10 most played creatures in modern, and 3 of those are in burn. I have shaved a bolt and some of the counter magic for some discard and been very happy.
I think that the most robust version of the deck lies somewhere between these 2 extremes. What does everyone else think?
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
What has other people's experience (or not) with the card been?
I love Creeping Tar Pit in Grixis Twin, and I've had fairly good results with Faerie Conclave in UR Twin. Part of me suspects that Raging Ravine is a touch too expensive for RUG Twin (especially since my latest RUG Twin list has a late game involving Snapcaster Mage into Collected Company, so I suspect I won't be swinging with manlands often), but as I just implied, RUG Twin does get durdle high mana in some games...
As far as I can tell, Kolaghan's Command has not been widely accepted. I've tried it myself, and I've found that it's only great if I'm recurring a guy and I'm killing one of their things. The instant-speed discard is subpar unless you're chasing the last card out of their hand (though I must admit that Twin encourages people to leave at least 1 card in hand), and Shocking their face is also subpar. I ended up Shocking their face + discarding too often. I almost want Rise // Fall back--at least Rise // Fall forced more and better cards out of their hand, although its recur-bounce mode is a bit fickle.
Rise // Fall is a pet card of mine in Grixis decks, as it's discard that isn't dead late-game. Rise is a fine "removal" and recur spell, although I've occasionally had to recur one of my opponent's dead guys in order to bounce their guy.
I recently pulled it from my Grixis Twin list to test Kolaghan's Command, though, and I'm starting to think that the two are comparable. Whereas Rise // Fall almost always boots better (and more) cards from hands, K. Command can actually kill stuff (and recur stuff or instant-speed discard at the same time).
I was playing it in my original build and I did like it alot. Much like Lectrys I pulled it to test out Kolaghan's Command, unfortunately between work and my research I haven't been able to play any magic for a couple of weeks. Once I have had a chance to test out Command I will have to have a look at Rise/Fall again. I did always like following up a turn 1 IoK with Fall on turn 2.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
4 Polluted Delta
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Steam Vents
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Watery Grave
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
/14 CREATURES
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Deceiver Exarch
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Pestermite
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Remand
1 Terminate
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Electrolyze
/4 OTHER SPELLS
4 Splinter Twin
1 Terminate
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Blood Moon
1 Spellskite
1 Negate
1 Dispel
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Spell Snare
3 Vendilion Clique
Thoughts? The Young Pyromancer angle is very intriguing to me.