MTG Salvation

Quote from Duramboros »

@Utvara_Captain
I disagree. I feel like 3-4 Oath of Nissa are a must. Altough it feels bad you see an Anger/Breach and have to bottom it, the card gives much needed consistency to the deck. It's also very important that it gives you another turn 1 play if you don't have a Search for Tomorrow, while Explore is competing with the much better and guaranteed ramps in Sakuras and Farseeks.

I personally don't like either in the deck, to be. perfectly clear. I was more or less answering his "which one seems better" comparison. I would rather run Lightning bolt as my extra T1 play. It is good against early plays by aggro decks (i.e. infect, affinity), can disrupt combos like abzan coco, and can help deal some extra damage when needed. Also similarly to oath, if you need to side in cards, it can be easily sided out to make room for the important SB cards. I just feel it is more versatile and impactful than oath.

Quote from Ivenl »

Quote from Tigerpawx »

It does so much, Nahiri only helps you win after 3 turns which you should be winning already.

No offense, but the cards aren't comparable in what they do for the deck, they just take the same spot.
Nahiri is a maindeck answer for blood moon, can remove creatures/ dangerous cards like runed halo and has a ulty to cheat in emrakul/titan.
Chandra is an alternativ win con, but by far slower nahiri, her main payoff is creating cardadvantage. But since you can't play exiled lands with her, she isn't as good in breach as in other decks, she will often just be a worse outpostsiege.
The best combo for the deck would be one of our 2options to play the topcard of our lib if it is a land+ chandra, but overall nahiri seems more appealing.

I agree that Chandra and Nahiri do different things for the deck. Nahiri is an alternate wincon, though in my opinion really slow for RG Breach and doesn't solve fast aggro matchups like infect, affinity, death shadow, etc. Chandra, on the other hand is also an alternate wincon with her ultimate (incase of Blood Moon), ramps you more consistently to a turn four Titan, can destroy a four toughness creature (without having it be tapped), and can provide card advantage. Post sideboard, I like the ability to cast a turn three Chandra and then immediately cast a Sudden Shock on an infect/affinity creature. I'd be surprised and willing to eat crow if Chandra isn't at least a two or more of in the RG Breach deck moving forward.

Maybe I'm just a contrarian, but I find Oath of Nisa not worthy of this deck. One pro compared it to Ponder, which was baffling to me. Like Ultvara_Captain, I would rather have the 4x lightning bolts for interaction as my one drop. I'm ready to part ways with the RG Breach Nahiri crowd. You Titanshift cats I can work with a little longer.

Ahh, I see. Thanks for letting me know. Where are you getting your data from? On www.mtgtop8.com Valakut is 5% and increasing while Dredge is also 5%, according to the last two months of data.

Also, I appreciate all the work you do managing the site...it's been a great forum to bounce ideas off folks. Cheers!

Thanks. Looks like the two sites are managed by the same person, so I suppose it makes sense to use that data. Quite a few other sites have Dredge and a couple other Tier 1 decks here on a lower percentage played than RG Breach.

We use modernnexus which ktken made. It had robots that watch and record all the matches online then the archrype is manually added...so its a bit truer?

We use modernnexus which ktken made. It had robots that watch and record all the matches online then the archrype is manually added...so its a bit truer.

I see. Certainly not my area of expertise, so you may be right. I'm guessing some of the other sites like www.mtggoldfish.com don't take into account the online activity as much as modernnexus, but that's just a guess. Maybe someone else out there knows more.

Quote from Utvara_Captain »

Quote from Duramboros »

@Utvara_Captain
I disagree. I feel like 3-4 Oath of Nissa are a must. Altough it feels bad you see an Anger/Breach and have to bottom it, the card gives much needed consistency to the deck. It's also very important that it gives you another turn 1 play if you don't have a Search for Tomorrow, while Explore is competing with the much better and guaranteed ramps in Sakuras and Farseeks.

I personally don't like either in the deck, to be. perfectly clear. I was more or less answering his "which one seems better" comparison. I would rather run Lightning bolt as my extra T1 play. It is good against early plays by aggro decks (i.e. infect, affinity), can disrupt combos like abzan coco, and can help deal some extra damage when needed. Also similarly to oath, if you need to side in cards, it can be easily sided out to make room for the important SB cards. I just feel it is more versatile and impactful than oath.

Fair enough, I guess there's an argument to be made for both. Personally I'm running 4 bolts 4 search for tomorrow and 3 oaths so I almost never waste turn 1.

I've been testing this, with the Kaladesh Madcap Experiment combo:




The Madcap Experiment revealing Platinum Emperion for no life loss since your life total can't change is great as a turn 3 play, I mean a 4 mana 8/8 with a powerful static ability seems decent. You can shut down various combo and aggro decks or just buy yourself time into your titans and valakut triggers, if you top deck a Platinum Emperion just ramp and hard cast it as a nother threat. Idk I find it interesting and powerful in this decks turn 3-4.

Quote from swculve »

I've been testing this, with the Kaladesh Madcap Experiment combo:

Diogenes35's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Land: 4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle 4 Cinder Glade 4 Stomping Ground 4 Wooded Foothills 2 Copperline Gorge 3 Mountain 3 Forest	Wincons 3 Scapeshift 4 Primeval Titan 4 Madcap Experiment 3 Platinum Emperion Ramp: 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder 4 Farseek 4 Search for Tomorrow 2 Explore	Interaction: 4 Anger of the Gods 4 Lightning Bolt

The Madcap Experiment revealing Platinum Emperion for no life loss since your life total can't change is great as a turn 3 play, I mean a 4 mana 8/8 with a powerful static ability seems decent. You can shut down various combo and aggro decks or just buy yourself time into your titans and valakut triggers, if you top deck a Platinum Emperion just ramp and hard cast it as another threat. Idk I find it interesting and powerful in this decks turn 3-4.

Interesting stuff. I personally don't think RG Breach is the shell for a Madcap/Emperion combo, but I'm sure there is a place out there for it. Probably decks that have a better protection strategy for Emperion and a slightly different way to ramp. Probably a little too much going on in your current list in the way of wincons. Good luck with it though!

Quote from Diogenes35 »

Happy to help. I think you're right that the traditional Breach deck was very combo-centric, especially with Emrakul in there. Both versions are combo decks, however. One deck prefers Scapeshift while the other Through the Breach & TItan. Both have issues with Blood Moon. While I don't play RG Scapeshift, RG Breach aims for a turn 4 Titan kill (with a possible turn 3 Breach Titan).

Below is my updated decklist once Kaladesh kicks off. I agree with Duramboros that Chandra, Torch of Defiance is a great addition to the deck and feel it fits much better than Nahiri, the Harbinger ever did. Overall, Chandra provides a more consistent turn 4 Titan (with it's +1 double red). It also provides card advantage in the late game, helps mana flooding, and offers creature removal. For me it feels like a homerun in this deck.

I play in a meta with combo decks like Scapeshift, RG Scapeshift, Bring to Light Scapeshift, and Ad Nauseum, so I've chosen to run a Blood Crypt main and Slaughter Games in the sideboard as these combo decks can be fast and problematic. With that explained, here is my list....

Gnarles's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Land (25) 1x Blood Crypt 4x Bloodstained Mire 2x Cinder Glade 2x Forest 6x Mountain 3x Stomping Ground 3x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle 4x Wooded Foothills Sorcery (12) 3x Anger of the Gods 2x Explore 3x Farseek 4x Search for Tomorrow	Instant (12) 4x Lightning Bolt 4x Summoner's Pact 4x Through the Breach Planeswalker (3) 3x Chandra, Torch of Defiance Creature (8) 4x Primeval Titan 4x Sakura-Tribe Elder	Sideboard (15) 2x Ancient Grudge 1x Engineered Explosives 4x Obstinate Baloth 1x Reclamation Sage 2x Relic of Progenitus 2x Slaughter Games 3x Sudden Shock

Woah.... I really like this list! Odd choice of 3 anger and 4 bolt in the main when your meta is combo heavy though.

I might have to pick up a few Chandra's to try this out. Damn shame they are still expensive. If I can find them in the low $30 range I'll probably jump.

Edit: Do you miss the 4th Farseek with only 1 blood crypt?

Thanks. LGS meta has about 30 people weekly, so it can be quite diverse, if not a bit combo heavy. If I was entering a larger tournament I would probably cut back to two Anger in main and one in the sideboard. This would allow for 4x Farseek and 2x Explore. I think 4x lightning bolt is always good in this deck as you want some interaction early. I also feel like Blood Moon is on the rise again, so I would probably play a few Destructive Revelry in the sideboard over Ancient Grudge and get rid of the Blood Crypt in favor of another Stomping Ground and just race other fast combo decks, IDK. But in my limited testing I think Chandra is a 2-3 of. Will try and post in a week or so once I've had time to test her at my LGS.

@Diogenes Looking forward to seeing how chandra works out. Can't wait to hear your results. If I can happen to get my hand on a few I may have to try her myself.

Quote from eikichi92ii »

Ok,


But what would be the Best way to play Emrakul according to you?
I would like to play at leadt one or two copy of our big emmy

I run the following, along with your basic RG mana base ..

3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Primeval Titan
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Obstinate Baloth
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder

3 Summoner's Pact
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Farseek
1 Explore
4 Through the Breach
4 Search for Tomorrow

Sideboard:

1 Anger of the Gods
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Crumble to Dust
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Sudden Shock
3 Summoning Trap

I absolutely love this build and find it SUPER consistent! Always go at least 3-1 at my LGS.

I feel like the new nissa is a great add to this deck. The deck ramps to 5 t3 almost every game and then you have a huge threat on board. Sure certain matches you may not want to put a land in danger of removal but once she ults the utility in those draws is huge.

@KTROJAN I thought about her but ultimately decided to go with Chandra instead. Sure, with a turn one ramp, turn two ramp, and turn three land drop you can get her out, but I don't think her ultimate is that powerful in this deck. It could help against flooding and opponent discard spells, but Chandra does that with her card draw advantage, too. With Chandra you have 4 modes that are relevant for four mana whereas Nissa you have one good mode for five. For my liking it's just a bit too slow for this modern deck. However, I played with her at pre-release and her +1 5/5 was a beast!

If you do try her out let us know how she works for you.

The new Nissa seems like a bad card against fast aggro decks.

Maybe sideboard choice against grindy matchups.

What are good sideboard options for Bant Eldrazi? The deck is very popular and really good right now. I'm thinking of 1 Hornet Queen but that might be too slow.

Bant Eldrazi is a good matchup for us. Other than a turn two Thought-Knot Seer there isn't much we have to worry about early. For this matchup I bring in 4x Obstinate Baloth to gain life and trade off with Seer till we combo off.

Quote from Diogenes35 »

Bant Eldrazi is a good matchup for us. Other than a turn two Thought-Knot Seer there isn't much we have to worry about early. For this matchup I bring in 4x Obstinate Baloth to gain life and trade off with Seer till we combo off.

I know it's favourable but after boarding it gets more even with their stubborn denials and worships. Right now I bring in 2 baloth and 1 reclamation sage, but I was just wondering if there's any tech that could seal the deal.

Quote from Duramboros »

Quote from Diogenes35 »

Bant Eldrazi is a good matchup for us. Other than a turn two Thought-Knot Seer there isn't much we have to worry about early. For this matchup I bring in 4x Obstinate Baloth to gain life and trade off with Seer till we combo off.

I know it's favourable but after boarding it gets more even with their stubborn denials and worships. Right now I bring in 2 baloth and 1 reclamation sage, but I was just wondering if there's any tech that could seal the deal.

Personally never had an issue with Worship...just burn their creatures down with Valakut triggers if need be. Stuborn denial can be played around with Through the Breach on their end step. I'm sure you already know this though. For favorable matchups I don't really worry about tech, but I suppose you could run a Painter's Servant in the sideboard to slow them down and cut off Thought-Knot and Reality Smasher as they may sideboard out some paths. :/

What do you think about Dredge match up? Angers main and turn 4 Titan are good enough for the win? What are best cards they can bring in?

Quote from Sodek »

What do you think about Dredge match up? Angers main and turn 4 Titan are good enough for the win? What are best cards they can bring in?

Our Dredge matchup is great! Don't think I've ever lost a match to it.

Bring in all your Angers, and hold them off with a few Bolts, until you can land a perfectly placed Anger.

Also, bring in your Relic of Progenitus and Grafdigger's Cage, if you got em. Easy peasy.

I have been having trouble with control in my meta, and before you mention that we have a good control match up, I know! It never used to be a problem, but the past few weeks they always seem to have the right card at the right time and continuosly counter me for days, or I have an opening but miss a land drop or get to summoning trap into a whiff.. Unlucky stuff like that. It's annoyed me now enough that I'm considering modifying my SB a little for control and got to thinking what to add. I settled upon defense grid, then wondered why no one is playing it nor has it been discussed (that i've seen), as it barely hinders us at all in the match ups we want to bring it in against. Thoughts?

Quote from Nickums »

I have been having trouble with control in my meta, and before you mention that we have a good control match up, I know! It never used to be a problem, but the past few weeks they always seem to have the right card at the right time and continuosly counter me for days, or I have an opening but miss a land drop or get to summoning trap into a whiff.. Unlucky stuff like that. It's annoyed me now enough that I'm considering modifying my SB a little for control and got to thinking what to add. I settled upon defense grid, then wondered why no one is playing it nor has it been discussed (that i've seen), as it barely hinders us at all in the match ups we want to bring it in against. Thoughts?

If you're continually losing to control with Summoning Trap(s) then I have some concerns. Are you making some sketchy keeps? Is your curve too high and/or not enough lands? Etc. That said, if you are in a control heavy meta have you thought about sideboarding 1-2 Thrun, the Last Troll? It puts a clock on control and they have a really difficult time stopping it. There are a few other green and/or red beaters that can't be countered that some RG Breach folks prefer, too.