I know it's not a popular archetype of Zoo, but going one drop -> Multiple Burning-Trees -> Bushwacker is the best feeling in Magic imo, even if it doesn't happen often. Hell, just a single Burning Tree into two one drops or even another two drop feels really good. My local meta has a bit of midrange and them trying to one-for-one all my redundant threats when I dump my hand can make me feel unstoppable. I guess this is how Affinity players feel.
I've been trying Voltaic Brawler in place of Tarmgoyf or Flinthoof Boar, it's been doing aight. Not sure if it's better than the pig tho. I think 4 is too many, I have him in my opening hand at times when I don't really want him. I'm thinking of dumping the fourth copy for the fourth Atarka's Command, but I was also thinking of dumping Rancor for the fourth Command.
I also don't know how to sideboard, we're White so we get the really good stuff like Stony Silence, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Rest in Peace but they seem super slow. Any suggestions? My local meta is a lot of Jund, Burn, and Infect then some durdly stuff like Lantern Control (they killed modern at my shop for the longest time) and Suicide Blue
Not sure you need the basic Plains in this list. Sure, it allows you to cast PoE through Blood Moon, but Bushwhacker is the only other card you can use it on, so it seems like a land you barely ever want to see in you hand. I'd just add another Foundry instead.
There is a good assortment of cards we can SB against Infect and especially Burn. Deflecting Palm works against both and Sudden Shock and Gut Shot are good against Infect. In principle, playing against Burn is a damage race, so everything that nets you life with tempo is good (Lightning Helix, Lone Missionary, Refraction Trap, etc.)
Not sure you need the basic Plains in this list. Sure, it allows you to cast PoE through Blood Moon, but Bushwhacker is the only other card you can use it on, so it seems like a land you barely ever want to see in you hand. I'd just add another Foundry instead.
There is a good assortment of cards we can SB against Infect and especially Burn. Deflecting Palm works against both and Sudden Shock and Gut Shot are good against Infect. In principle, playing against Burn is a damage race, so everything that nets you life with tempo is good (Lightning Helix, Lone Missionary, Refraction Trap, etc.)
Yeah I have noticed a few hands that had to be mulligans because the Plains were a part of them, I just put a few of each basic I needed in when I built the deck. I'll definitely be taking it out in favor of a Garden or Foundry.
Deflecting Palm has been on my radar, I actually really love the card and I think it even gets around Hexproof so it's good against the occasional Bogles player. I think I like Gut Shot over Sudden Shock, the fact that it's free seems like it would really tax Infect's mana, though if Infect players keep showing up in the numbers they have I'll prolly just use both. Helix is already in my board, it's a great card and it is really backbreaking for Burn players. Missionary seems aight, though I think I'd rather run Thalia as she's better in other matchups. Refraction Trap is spicy lol, I don't know if I'll end up using it but I'll definitely give it a spin, seems super troll. Though it does seem amazing against Pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods
Refraction Trap is spicy lol, I don't know if I'll end up using it but I'll definitely give it a spin, seems super troll. Though it does seem amazing against Pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods
Yes, saving 3 creatures and dealing 3 damage is a big turnaround. Although it also works as "save my Nacatl, bolt yours" and fully counters a Lightning Helix. Pity it's conditional on red, it could possibly also work in a pinch against Infect otherwise (prevent 3 damage, put 3 counters on Glistener Elf/Blighted Agent, you survive, creature dies EOT). There is always, Harm's Way, of course, but that seems less efficient.
I've been using Natural State and it's fine in this metagame. Spending an extra mana for Revelry to deal 2 damage might be worst than keeping that mana to develop the board. Plus, I believe the few artifact/enchantment over cmc 3 that concerns Zoo are Worship and Batterskull, and you probably should not bring in artifact hate against decks that use those.
I've been using Natural State and it's fine in this metagame. Spending an extra mana for Revelry to deal 2 damage might be worst than keeping that mana to develop the board. Plus, I believe the few artifact/enchantment over cmc 3 that concerns Zoo are Worship and Batterskull, and you probably should not bring in artifact hate against decks that use those.
Exactly my thoughts when I was running Zoo a few weeks ago.
The extra mana of Revelry can slow you down a bit and being able to go Natural State + Dude in matchs where you need to race is a lot better.
Round 1: 2x0 Fractius
Really though tribal deck, but kinda lacks consistency and is easier for Zoo than Merfolk (no Spreading Seas). Got lucky and kept really fast hands on both games. G1 brought him down to 2 life, he dropped a Syphon Sliver and almost got back to the game. Luckily he had to trade his entire board with mine and I was able to recover faster than him.
Round 2: 2x1 Jeskai Ascendancy/Pyromancer Ascension
The combo is kinda slow to go of, so I was able to beat him down G1 keeping only Geists and Flintroofs and no one drops. G2 he droped a pyromancer that I could't remove, and he took over the game. G3 I had Thalia to slow him down, and Geist and Boar were the big stars once again.
Round 3: 2x0 Infect
I had a good sequence of removal + one drops on G1, so it was easy to outrace. G2 was pretty close. I barely had any removal and had to do a lot of blocking. In the end, a well-timed Deflecting Palm from the top of the deck saved me.
Round 4: 2x0 Elves
Manage to have 3 dudes by turn 2, with ghor clan + removal backup. G2 took a mulligan to five and kept 5 creatures and one land. Manage to draw the second one and outrace before any lord or Ezuri hit the board. I also think he did some questionable chump blocks throughout the game and lost a lot of his board because of it
Round 5: 0x2 Jund Moon
Had to keep really awful hands and took bad decisions, such as not casting my ghor-clan when I could or bad sequencing my one-drops. G1 was close, and Geist helped fight through removals and Lilianas. I was pretty much dead already by the end of both games, but blood moon closed both of them since I couldn't get any basic forest.
In the end I manage to get first place with good tie breakers. Strangleroot Geist is proving himself to be a great addition to the deck.
I've been using Natural State and it's fine in this metagame. Spending an extra mana for Revelry to deal 2 damage might be worst than keeping that mana to develop the board. Plus, I believe the few artifact/enchantment over cmc 3 that concerns Zoo are Worship and Batterskull, and you probably should not bring in artifact hate against decks that use those.
Technically, here is also Wurmcoil Engine, but you probably want to Path that anyhow. The problem with Natural State though is mainly that it doesn't kill Chalice for 1 -- which pretty much means you fold if you're playing Small Zoo.
I've been using Natural State and it's fine in this metagame. Spending an extra mana for Revelry to deal 2 damage might be worst than keeping that mana to develop the board. Plus, I believe the few artifact/enchantment over cmc 3 that concerns Zoo are Worship and Batterskull, and you probably should not bring in artifact hate against decks that use those.
Technically, here is also Wurmcoil Engine, but you probably want to Path that anyhow. The problem with Natural State though is mainly that it doesn't kill Chalice for 1 -- which pretty much means you fold if you're playing Small Zoo.
That's right, but I think there are no Tier 1/Tier 2 decks running that card right now. I can only think on RG Ramp variants (that mostly preffer Lightning Bolt and Anger for this matchup) and Merfolk (that's already a horrible match for Zoo, so I believe that Chalice would just be oversideboard). In my metagame, there are no decks running this card. So I still think that Revelry is not worth the slot for now. Maybe if your metagame is full of RW Lockdown...
I like revelry with small zoos. The 3 damage is worth the extra mana. Its bolt with natures claim with no draw back. You cant really get a better rate than that.
I perfer natural state or wear/tear in bigger zoo decks (aside from pridemage) because that deck needs mana efficancy more than small zoo. Small zoo plays on a curve, but the end goal is racing and revelry fits the bill. Bigger zoo you need to be casting dorks threats and removal all at the same time, so it helps to keep the spells as low to the ground as possible.
I like revelry with small zoos. The 3 damage is worth the extra mana. Its bolt with natures claim with no draw back. You cant really get a better rate than that..
The rusiness on my zoo has started. Stilll shock plus naturalize at 2 mana is pretty good
Yes, I agree with the logic. Also, Revelry conveniently casts off of BTE. I treat Small Zoo like Burn: cards have to do damage to face to be viable. Still haven't found a good grave hate card that fits that condition though...
On Big Zoo again for GP Dallas. Unfortunately 7-2 going into day 2, gonna need some run good. Notable inclusions include Thalia Heretic Cathar and Grim Lavamancers main, Blessed Alliance and Bojuka Bog in the side. Deck still feels pretty good, losses were to nut draw from Scapeshift and CoCo whiff vs Jund.
big turnout for sunday. I went 5-0. I went back to my roots. Walkers zoo, They didnt know what hit em. Went against Jund, B/W taxes deck,
infect, soul sister, and affinity. Back and Forth on pyromaster and Torch. I like the no blocking clause, but I like the 4 damage.
The rusiness on my zoo has started. Stilll shock plus naturalize at 2 mana is pretty good
Yes, I agree with the logic. Also, Revelry conveniently casts off of BTE. I treat Small Zoo like Burn: cards have to do damage to face to be viable. Still haven't found a good grave hate card that fits that condition though...
I don't know... I don't like to treat it like Burn. I think the main thing that distinguishes Zoo from Burn is the board presence. The deck is build around going wide with small creatures fast, using Command/Ghor-Clan/Mutagenic/other pump spells as backup to get through the oposing board. You may 2-for-1 them with revelry, but not developing your board fast makes the deck pretty vulnerable against any removal and might make those pumps weaker pretty fast. But I agree it has a good synergy with BTE, even though it kinda limits you from casting it at instant speed. Also, my concerns are actually more about the Affinity (as they usually wait to cast + equip Cranial Plating at the same turn, usually T2) and Merfolk matchup (State is easier to cast when you get hit by spreading seas), but it might not be that much of a concern in other matchups.
Ooze it's a pretty good and proactive gravehate! Not a burn to the face, but hate + board presence.
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well a Zoo list got to Top 8 of a recent SCG event. Maybe that was enough?
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Reckless Bushwacker
4 Goblin Guide
4 Experiment One
4 Voltaic Brawler
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Path to Exile
3 Atarka's Command
1 Rancor
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
2 Mountain
2 Forest
1 Plains
I know it's not a popular archetype of Zoo, but going one drop -> Multiple Burning-Trees -> Bushwacker is the best feeling in Magic imo, even if it doesn't happen often. Hell, just a single Burning Tree into two one drops or even another two drop feels really good. My local meta has a bit of midrange and them trying to one-for-one all my redundant threats when I dump my hand can make me feel unstoppable. I guess this is how Affinity players feel.
I've been trying Voltaic Brawler in place of Tarmgoyf or Flinthoof Boar, it's been doing aight. Not sure if it's better than the pig tho. I think 4 is too many, I have him in my opening hand at times when I don't really want him. I'm thinking of dumping the fourth copy for the fourth Atarka's Command, but I was also thinking of dumping Rancor for the fourth Command.
I also don't know how to sideboard, we're White so we get the really good stuff like Stony Silence, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Rest in Peace but they seem super slow. Any suggestions? My local meta is a lot of Jund, Burn, and Infect then some durdly stuff like Lantern Control (they killed modern at my shop for the longest time) and Suicide Blue
There is a good assortment of cards we can SB against Infect and especially Burn. Deflecting Palm works against both and Sudden Shock and Gut Shot are good against Infect. In principle, playing against Burn is a damage race, so everything that nets you life with tempo is good (Lightning Helix, Lone Missionary, Refraction Trap, etc.)
Yeah I have noticed a few hands that had to be mulligans because the Plains were a part of them, I just put a few of each basic I needed in when I built the deck. I'll definitely be taking it out in favor of a Garden or Foundry.
Deflecting Palm has been on my radar, I actually really love the card and I think it even gets around Hexproof so it's good against the occasional Bogles player. I think I like Gut Shot over Sudden Shock, the fact that it's free seems like it would really tax Infect's mana, though if Infect players keep showing up in the numbers they have I'll prolly just use both. Helix is already in my board, it's a great card and it is really backbreaking for Burn players. Missionary seems aight, though I think I'd rather run Thalia as she's better in other matchups. Refraction Trap is spicy lol, I don't know if I'll end up using it but I'll definitely give it a spin, seems super troll. Though it does seem amazing against Pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods
I like this idea, I feel like my sideboard is going to be very White heavy too, so putting an extra Plains in there if I have the room wouldn't hurt.
Which Disenchant card do you guys run? Ancient Grudge or Destructive Revelry? Or something else?
Yes, saving 3 creatures and dealing 3 damage is a big turnaround. Although it also works as "save my Nacatl, bolt yours" and fully counters a Lightning Helix. Pity it's conditional on red, it could possibly also work in a pinch against Infect otherwise (prevent 3 damage, put 3 counters on Glistener Elf/Blighted Agent, you survive, creature dies EOT). There is always, Harm's Way, of course, but that seems less efficient.
I use a combination of Destructive Revelry and Tin Street Hooligan. Although, of course, there's also merit in using Stony Silence or Kataki, War's Wage against Affinity.
I've been using Natural State and it's fine in this metagame. Spending an extra mana for Revelry to deal 2 damage might be worst than keeping that mana to develop the board. Plus, I believe the few artifact/enchantment over cmc 3 that concerns Zoo are Worship and Batterskull, and you probably should not bring in artifact hate against decks that use those.
Exactly my thoughts when I was running Zoo a few weeks ago.
The extra mana of Revelry can slow you down a bit and being able to go Natural State + Dude in matchs where you need to race is a lot better.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Round 1: 2x0 Fractius
Really though tribal deck, but kinda lacks consistency and is easier for Zoo than Merfolk (no Spreading Seas). Got lucky and kept really fast hands on both games. G1 brought him down to 2 life, he dropped a Syphon Sliver and almost got back to the game. Luckily he had to trade his entire board with mine and I was able to recover faster than him.
Round 2: 2x1 Jeskai Ascendancy/Pyromancer Ascension
The combo is kinda slow to go of, so I was able to beat him down G1 keeping only Geists and Flintroofs and no one drops. G2 he droped a pyromancer that I could't remove, and he took over the game. G3 I had Thalia to slow him down, and Geist and Boar were the big stars once again.
Round 3: 2x0 Infect
I had a good sequence of removal + one drops on G1, so it was easy to outrace. G2 was pretty close. I barely had any removal and had to do a lot of blocking. In the end, a well-timed Deflecting Palm from the top of the deck saved me.
Round 4: 2x0 Elves
Manage to have 3 dudes by turn 2, with ghor clan + removal backup. G2 took a mulligan to five and kept 5 creatures and one land. Manage to draw the second one and outrace before any lord or Ezuri hit the board. I also think he did some questionable chump blocks throughout the game and lost a lot of his board because of it
Round 5: 0x2 Jund Moon
Had to keep really awful hands and took bad decisions, such as not casting my ghor-clan when I could or bad sequencing my one-drops. G1 was close, and Geist helped fight through removals and Lilianas. I was pretty much dead already by the end of both games, but blood moon closed both of them since I couldn't get any basic forest.
In the end I manage to get first place with good tie breakers. Strangleroot Geist is proving himself to be a great addition to the deck.
Technically, here is also Wurmcoil Engine, but you probably want to Path that anyhow. The problem with Natural State though is mainly that it doesn't kill Chalice for 1 -- which pretty much means you fold if you're playing Small Zoo.
That's right, but I think there are no Tier 1/Tier 2 decks running that card right now. I can only think on RG Ramp variants (that mostly preffer Lightning Bolt and Anger for this matchup) and Merfolk (that's already a horrible match for Zoo, so I believe that Chalice would just be oversideboard). In my metagame, there are no decks running this card. So I still think that Revelry is not worth the slot for now. Maybe if your metagame is full of RW Lockdown...
I perfer natural state or wear/tear in bigger zoo decks (aside from pridemage) because that deck needs mana efficancy more than small zoo. Small zoo plays on a curve, but the end goal is racing and revelry fits the bill. Bigger zoo you need to be casting dorks threats and removal all at the same time, so it helps to keep the spells as low to the ground as possible.
Destructive Revelry is 2 damage. You're confusing it with Smash to Smithereens.
Yes, I agree with the logic. Also, Revelry conveniently casts off of BTE. I treat Small Zoo like Burn: cards have to do damage to face to be viable. Still haven't found a good grave hate card that fits that condition though...
infect, soul sister, and affinity. Back and Forth on pyromaster and Torch. I like the no blocking clause, but I like the 4 damage.
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Knight of the reliquary
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
2 scavenging Ooze
1 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Tarmogoyf
Spells:
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Arlinn Kord
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Domri Rade
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Nissa, voice of Zendikar
Lands:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Raging Ravine
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Horizon Canopy
I don't know... I don't like to treat it like Burn. I think the main thing that distinguishes Zoo from Burn is the board presence. The deck is build around going wide with small creatures fast, using Command/Ghor-Clan/Mutagenic/other pump spells as backup to get through the oposing board. You may 2-for-1 them with revelry, but not developing your board fast makes the deck pretty vulnerable against any removal and might make those pumps weaker pretty fast. But I agree it has a good synergy with BTE, even though it kinda limits you from casting it at instant speed. Also, my concerns are actually more about the Affinity (as they usually wait to cast + equip Cranial Plating at the same turn, usually T2) and Merfolk matchup (State is easier to cast when you get hit by spreading seas), but it might not be that much of a concern in other matchups.
Ooze it's a pretty good and proactive gravehate! Not a burn to the face, but hate + board presence.