Not sure if that link above works - but that's my zoo deck! Loam Lion is my favourite! MTG1905 - thanks for the help with the deck. I currently have 2 Atarka's Command, 1 Dromokas and a boros charm. I run the full 4 path. Is Dromoka's really that good? Is the 4th path unnecessary?
I love the retreat to coralhelm combo, But i would still like to have a nice mid-range reach or still play the mid-range approach. Tested gideon, He isn't much better than elspeth, and i would play elspeth over him. Flying is a super relevant ability in the mid-late game approach, where gideon does not have that reach. RTC is just a card where if i get it out early, I can pump out knight + nacatl or scry 1. Later on, If i get a knight to stick to win for the last 10-12 points of damage.
Yep. It does feel like tarmo twin. this could rocket zoo to tier one. I just won against twin, tapping down his twin in resp everytime, and then landing my knight and just point blank winning with my own twin combo.
What are the benefits of running Arid Mesa over Flooded Strand? Flooded Strand seems to round out our mana base better, as it can grab the basic plains, and Breeding Pool which is the shock we want to be fetching for most of the time.
What are the benefits of running Arid Mesa over Flooded Strand? Flooded Strand seems to round out our mana base better, as it can grab the basic plains, and Breeding Pool which is the shock we want to be fetching for most of the time.
The only difference is that you are able to hit exactly 1 more dual land with the 3 naya fetches opposed to 2 and an off strand. However, if you don't have the retreat or Geist in your opening hand, it's much better to conceal that info and get stomping ground t1.
Hey lantern, a while back there was a discussion of the fall of St Traft. I watched one of your recent videos on the Knightfall Zoo and you had a few copies in your list. I was curious as your thoughts on him in that build and what might be making him more relevant as you had expressed negative views of him just a few months ago.
Just looking for some info. I dont get around to testing as much as I would like. Offhand I have to suspect that you plan to use the landfall triggers to tap blockers and send him through. What about when you side the enchantment out like you mentioned vs control?
What are the benefits of running Arid Mesa over Flooded Strand? Flooded Strand seems to round out our mana base better, as it can grab the basic plains, and Breeding Pool which is the shock we want to be fetching for most of the time.
The only difference is that you are able to hit exactly 1 more dual land with the 3 naya fetches opposed to 2 and an off strand. However, if you don't have the retreat or Geist in your opening hand, it's much better to conceal that info and get stomping ground t1.
It's pretty minute
And its less sleeving for me. I just prefer to get my stomping grounds latish in the games. And Above. But any advantage is a good advantage.
Hey lantern, a while back there was a discussion of the fall of St Traft. I watched one of your recent videos on the Knightfall Zoo and you had a few copies in your list. I was curious as your thoughts on him in that build and what might be making him more relevant as you had expressed negative views of him just a few months ago.
Just looking for some info. I dont get around to testing as much as I would like.
I'm a dirty non blue player.
Aside from that, I don't think the meta was great for geist. Few months ago, jund disappeared, and delver and junk was everywhere. Prior to that, pod lifegain was around too. There was allllottta blockers. Now? Grixis control, delver cutting young pyros, twin, burn and amulet. Theres alot less blockers. And what I said was "Going naya seems better for the mana because geist and negate in the sideboard, while good, isnt a good enough reason to go into blue.
I think (still not sure. Need LOTS more testing) retreat, plus all those things is a good enough reason to widen the mana.
Ok, by the time Retreat to Coralhelm comes to MTGO I should have all the pieces to make the exact same deck that lantern had on his How to play video. I have watched the video multiple times and really like the deck; mostly because it is not an all in combo deck. without the retreat it works just like Naya company with GoST in it, which is a well placed deck on its own. without knight, retreat is still a good card in the deck it can help find it's other combo piece or just tap down opponent's blockers to push damage through on the beat-down plan. Still trying to find room in SB for Vines of vastwood, always been a favorite of mine and seems good to protect combo and advance beat-down, (as well as fringe things like stop twin.) Can't wait to start piloting this thing and help zoo arch-type become tier one as it should be!
Still looking to get my feet wet with this deck. I love that there feels like a lot more room for personal card choices. Elves has been fun so far but I feel like there is a lot less room for personal card choices in it based on being tribal.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Yep. It does feel like tarmo twin. this could rocket zoo to tier one. I just won against twin, tapping down his twin in resp everytime, and then landing my knight and just point blank winning with my own twin combo.
How can you tap down their combo past the initial turn they cast twin? Or are you saying you did that in multiple games?
Is Geist really that better than Loxodon Smiter or are there some other reasons to run it instead of an elephant in Retreat version? I get the power of Geist, but 4/4 is also not bad.
4/4 isn't bad, which is why giest is so much better because it's a 2/2 and a 4/4 flyer. If you're playing 3 Retreat, 3 path, and 4 bolt it becomes much harder to block the 2/2. If you're playing with 4 noble and 3 Pridemage like I am in the Retreat Company, then it's hardly just a 2/2 that's attacking but it becomes a 3/3 and 4/4 often, which means even if they block they aren't killing it.
If you're playing 3 company in the deck, then play 3 giest 1 smiter, if you're not playing Company then you should just play the 4 geist.
Been testing the list and I'm torn between two sets of "spells"
4 Bolt
4 Path
3 Retreat
2 Elspeth
OR
4 bolt
3 path
3 retreat
3 company
The first list makes everyone in the deck better, and having played Reid Duke's list the last two weeks I can tell you that Elspeth is in fact better than Company.
With the addition of the combo however, it may just be better to find knight, tap everyone down, and kill them.
Still looking to get my feet wet with this deck. I love that there feels like a lot more room for personal card choices. Elves has been fun so far but I feel like there is a lot less room for personal card choices in it based on being tribal.
Yep thats one of the joys of zoo. At the end of the day, it boils down to a green creature good stuff deck.
Is Geist really that better than Loxodon Smiter or are there some other reasons to run it instead of an elephant in Retreat version? I get the power of Geist, but 4/4 is also not bad.
Because geist gets in more damage and doesnt die to removal. As a 3 mana burn spell, hes great. He only dies to blockers, but even then, you hit for 4. Most of the tier one decks have a problem with him as well because they are so relient on removal (decay, terminate, bolt) and often dont have a good way to deal with him.
Smiter is better in the hand and in the stack, but geist is better on the field.
Yep. It does feel like tarmo twin. this could rocket zoo to tier one. I just won against twin, tapping down his twin in resp everytime, and then landing my knight and just point blank winning with my own twin combo.
How can you tap down their combo past the initial turn they cast twin? Or are you saying you did that in multiple games?
I actually dont like the reid list. I like elspeth, but I like collected better. Elsepth seals the game if you are already winning, but doesnt always get you back in like company does.
I actually dont like the reid list. I like elspeth, but I like collected better. Elsepth seals the game if you are already winning, but doesnt always get you back in like company does.
It was bonkers when I played it, I didn't like the second wildwood so I replaced it with Canopy, and I can see replacing Bant Charm with Dromoka's if you're playing Pridemage over Voice, but as a whole it's got a lot going for it.
I have a few questions. I like the Zoo list i've been playing (its a very stock list), but my issue is that I often get into a top deck war with the higher tier decks and with so few spells I always tend to lose. A lot of my meta is easy enough, 8 rack, delver, and a few home brews but I'll often go 2-2 because there are a few twin decks and at least one jund, a few burn, and a few infect. How does Knightfall change our game vs those decks from what you can tell? Is staying no less then 25 creatures absolutely necessary? or would dropping to 24 and maybe 23 be okay?
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Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Dromoka's Command is not a path, but it does help removing creatures up to 4 toughness. It is bad against the Abzan kid match up to a certain point.
I still play 4 paths for the sake of running against twin, and abzan kid, as well as g1 restoration angel or something.
Holy hell! That's some sick alters that you have there!
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
Why couldn't it be 2 mana? I would have enjoyed a 2 mana 2/1 with a landfall ability that gave +2/+2.
As it stands I'd rather play Woolly Thoctar instead since it's way more consistently sized.
Same goes for Snapping Gnarlid, at that price it's probably better to play Flinthoof Boar.
So I think it's worse then cards we already don't play. Steppe Lynx still feels like the landfall king.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Loxodon Smiter
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells: 16
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Dromoka's Command
2 Retreat to Coralhelm
3 Collected Company
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
1 Kessig Wolfrun
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Plain
I love the retreat to coralhelm combo, But i would still like to have a nice mid-range reach or still play the mid-range approach. Tested gideon, He isn't much better than elspeth, and i would play elspeth over him. Flying is a super relevant ability in the mid-late game approach, where gideon does not have that reach. RTC is just a card where if i get it out early, I can pump out knight + nacatl or scry 1. Later on, If i get a knight to stick to win for the last 10-12 points of damage.
RGW Naya Company
RWB Mardu Control
The only difference is that you are able to hit exactly 1 more dual land with the 3 naya fetches opposed to 2 and an off strand. However, if you don't have the retreat or Geist in your opening hand, it's much better to conceal that info and get stomping ground t1.
It's pretty minute
Just looking for some info. I dont get around to testing as much as I would like. Offhand I have to suspect that you plan to use the landfall triggers to tap blockers and send him through. What about when you side the enchantment out like you mentioned vs control?
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[Modern] Allies
And its less sleeving for me. I just prefer to get my stomping grounds latish in the games. And Above. But any advantage is a good advantage.
I'm a dirty non blue player.
Aside from that, I don't think the meta was great for geist. Few months ago, jund disappeared, and delver and junk was everywhere. Prior to that, pod lifegain was around too. There was allllottta blockers. Now? Grixis control, delver cutting young pyros, twin, burn and amulet. Theres alot less blockers. And what I said was "Going naya seems better for the mana because geist and negate in the sideboard, while good, isnt a good enough reason to go into blue.
I think (still not sure. Need LOTS more testing) retreat, plus all those things is a good enough reason to widen the mana.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
Still looking to get my feet wet with this deck. I love that there feels like a lot more room for personal card choices. Elves has been fun so far but I feel like there is a lot less room for personal card choices in it based on being tribal.
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[Modern] Allies
How can you tap down their combo past the initial turn they cast twin? Or are you saying you did that in multiple games?
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4/4 isn't bad, which is why giest is so much better because it's a 2/2 and a 4/4 flyer. If you're playing 3 Retreat, 3 path, and 4 bolt it becomes much harder to block the 2/2. If you're playing with 4 noble and 3 Pridemage like I am in the Retreat Company, then it's hardly just a 2/2 that's attacking but it becomes a 3/3 and 4/4 often, which means even if they block they aren't killing it.
If you're playing 3 company in the deck, then play 3 giest 1 smiter, if you're not playing Company then you should just play the 4 geist.
Been testing the list and I'm torn between two sets of "spells"
4 Bolt
4 Path
3 Retreat
2 Elspeth
OR
4 bolt
3 path
3 retreat
3 company
The first list makes everyone in the deck better, and having played Reid Duke's list the last two weeks I can tell you that Elspeth is in fact better than Company.
With the addition of the combo however, it may just be better to find knight, tap everyone down, and kill them.
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Yep thats one of the joys of zoo. At the end of the day, it boils down to a green creature good stuff deck.
Because geist gets in more damage and doesnt die to removal. As a 3 mana burn spell, hes great. He only dies to blockers, but even then, you hit for 4. Most of the tier one decks have a problem with him as well because they are so relient on removal (decay, terminate, bolt) and often dont have a good way to deal with him.
Smiter is better in the hand and in the stack, but geist is better on the field.
Yes, different games.
I guess I should pick up a couple of Geists. Dammit.
It was bonkers when I played it, I didn't like the second wildwood so I replaced it with Canopy, and I can see replacing Bant Charm with Dromoka's if you're playing Pridemage over Voice, but as a whole it's got a lot going for it.
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