Thanks for both your input; will try your recommendations when next sb-ing against Abzan Coco. I too have felt that 2x Cage is a little too much, esp since I alr have 2x RIP, so I will be bringing that down to 1 in the SB.
As for MB, played a few more games where revoker MB only slows them down just a little, since they can easily find a Redcap (if I do not have Arbiter/Mindcensor in play) and shoot down my revoker first before combo-ing off. I think what I'll do is replace them with 1x Linvala, and 1x Fiend Hunter.
Hoping to play in an event this weekend and report back!
So, my first outing against Affinity with Disenchant over Stony Silence has yielded somewhat mixed results. On the good side, I blew up a Master of Etherium the Silence would have not been able to do anything about. On the other hand, I had to rely on Pithing Needle to shut down Cranial Plating and lead me to the promised land. I got the win (mostly on the back of Orzhov Pontiff being an absolute beating for Affinity, especially when coupled with flicker effects), but I definitely think I need to test further.
Hey guys, gonna try and re-tune this deck to the popular Eldrazi and taxes style deck I've been seeing. Just need to get the thought-knots and eldrazi temples. How important have people found the Reality Smasher to be? Should I bother picking up 2 copies? Or is 1 enough? Or none at all? I'm assuming it's run based on how much jund, jeskai, and interactive fair decks are in the meta. Or is it just a powerful top end against any meta? Any tips would be appreciated.
@NinjaSonic mentioning you here since you seemed interested in red.
Did a little playtesting in the Just for Fun room of MTGO with a horrible RW build but had a lot of fun***. I wanted to give Scab-Clan Berserker a try, and she's a $0.50/0.05tix rare so I got a set and tried her out. ***There was a fair amount of eye-rolling, exasperation, and rage also, but that's mostly due to how bad the variance on drawing a full cohesive strategy was with my decklist.
My thought was "If I can Topple-tap everything down SCB might actually connect!" which didn't work out nearly as well as hoped.
Getting delirium was still hard even when running Tarfire and artifact creatures. Never again.
What I learned:
Scab-Clan Berserker was able to connect on turn-3 or turn-4 far more often than I would have thought. Sometimes there is just an empty/tapped-out board that you can drop her into and haste takes care of the rest. Otherwise, Path/Bolt go a long ways when there's only one defender to worry about- and worked far better than Topplegeist 99% of the time.
Spellskite was BFF/MVP, basically reading as "0: Both players take 2 damage and target opponent discards a Bolt". I'm definitely upping the count next time.
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben wasn't BFFs with SCB; the tax was too double-edged with all the Path/Bolt in the main.
Overall, SCB was a cute little card to play. She wasn't strong enough to carry my disjointed deck herself, though. The one-way Eidolon effect was pretty stellar and easier to bring online than I had expected; putting more (actual) Eidolons mainboard to up the effect count seems like an interesting avenue for RW D&T (shock effects are effectively a tax, right?). Additionally, Thalia didn't jive all that well with the increased Bolt/Path spellcount; using Magus to moon 'em might be the way to go.
This is a rough outline and the curve seems way too high even if Bolt is taking up a number of those 1-drop slots. Kiki+Angel as a Plan B might be too disjoint from the rest of the plan to be optimal- going all-in with more Eidolons (8-Revel) and some Finks to counteract the self-burn might be better and more streamlined. Actually, the RW control combo of Nahiri+Emrakul might just be too good to pass up here. She's almost as good as draw with her +2 filter effect, she can exile trouble permanents, and her ultimate into Emrakul is pretty crazy strong considering it only takes +2,+2,-8 to get there. Hmm, maybe I should just type up that list instead... Input welcome!
I'd like to try this out but don't really want to buy into Eidolon and Magus (or Nahiri) just yet- maybe I'll have to learn to love Xmage or something.
TL;DR:Scab-Clan Berserker is interesting but too cute by herself. Might pair well with Eidolon in some sort of 8-Revel deck (probably leveraging Magus of the Moon to get ahead), but I don't have those cards and haven't done that playtesting.
Thanks for the input, I'm actually struggling to find some more creatures I like in RW Taxes. Serra Avenger felt very boring without equipment and Brimaz was decent but felt slow. I may give Scab-Clan Berserker a go and try to avoid cards with WW except for Flickerwisp.
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If you're going RW (which I would love if it could work) what about Sin Prodder? Also, I would second the Nahiri and Emrakul or at the very least throw Nahiri as apposed to Ajani because she would be able to combo with Kiki as well.
Ajani Vengeant is a monster in R/W along with Magus of the Moon. He helps prison down basics after full moon is set. I was testing it on paper but the cost for assembling in MTGO has limited my scope of testing. Some cards I found overly powerful with the red splash!
Awesome Red Tax Cards:
Ajani Vengeant: he is an actual prison.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar: wide enough to be a finisher and aggro answer.
Magus of the Moon: upgrade to your Aven mindcensors/Leonin arbiter.
Wear and Tear: great utility disenchant from the board.
Lightning Bolt: paths 5 & 6 ... Maybe even 7/8.
Bonfire of the Damned: great sideboard sweeper that can finish the game.
Wall of Omens: the red build lack threat and control density. Wall of omens allows you to find critical pieces while protecting you from the Aggro strategies.
Here goes a slightly outdated list but a quick example of what functioned for me. I had roughly a 66% win ratio with this:
4 Round FNM, I went 4/0 and quite comfortably, only dropping 1 game in all three matches.
Round 1. 2/0 WIN. (Burn) We both Mulliganed
He didn't lead with Goblin Guide but with a lava spike. I had a turn 1 Hierarch into turn 2 thalia + another Hierarach then into a reality smasher on turn 3, I could easily race him and he cant kill the 7/7 smasher or deal with the thalia and successfully race me.
My reason's for this against burn,(it was the naya burn with boros charm and atarkas command but WITHOUT the Nacatyl's) Spellskites block really well and can sometimes soak a searing blaze/Searing blood/bolt I know its not the best but when coupled with a Leyline they cant actually remove the leyline with the destructive revelry which is nice its also another target for nature's claim, I like having the Leyline for obvious reasons some people don't board in alot of artifact/enchantment removal against us(even though they should) so sometimes you can just "get them" with leyline, I like having a 1/1 split of Hallow/Burrenton-Forge Tender since they both function slightly similarly however you don't always have a time to dump the forge tender depending on hand, so Hallow also gains life which can be of use, Nature's Claim comes in because it can remove that pesky Eidolon however its mostly in to disrupt their destructive revelry or to gain me 4 life when I know they cant stop me. Reasons for taking away the other cards are as follows; Qasali really only hits the eidolon which is nice however getting G/W early enough without taking too much damage isn't what i want to do just to take damage from it anyways and its normally the first card to get sideboarded however its great to have main board, the Eldrazi displacer is just slightly too slow and sometimes they just kill you with creatures and we want to be hitting them and dropping creatures as fast as possible so using our mana to do some flicker tricks isn't the best (unless you run a life gain creature like finks or something), same thing with Eternal Witness, its not a grindy game so she comes out, also we don't need the 23rd land on the draw normally so I cut the shrine so we can potentially take less damage on curve.
Game 2 was really simple we mulligan again to 6 (this was an ongoing trend the whole day).
He came out of the gates with a GG which gave me a land (thanks scry :)), I had a hand of Hierarch/Temple Garden/Ghost Quarter/Leonin Arbiter/Thalia/Eldrazi Temple, great hand did the turn 2 Leonin = kill your land trick, then followed with thalia and he can't recover since he hasn't got enough mana to get rid of thalia, I finish with a turn 4 smasher (thanks Noble Hierarch).
Round 2, 2/0 WIN (Mono Black Zombie Control) Both Mulligan again.
I've played with this chap before so I know he plays alot of mono black removal spells along with Relentless Dead and Phyrexian Obliterator, Its a tough match but I do manage to grind him out with the Eternal Witness/Eldrazi Displacer combo getting back whatever I decided to sac to get through that Obliterator and smasher being a boss with trample.
Reasoning is that he as enough hand disruption to stop me early and leonin doesn't really do anything since he is also just mono black.
Game 2 he has a really slow hand without disruption because i have leyline and vial on my first turn, I manage to get really lucky with having loads of thought-knot seer and slowly get through his relentless dead wall
Round 3, 2/1 Win (Affinity). Mulligan to 6 for me not for him
Game 1 I come out of the games with a really aggressive hand with Hierarch into turn 2 TKS, into turn 3 smasher and he can't successfully race me since I was on the play.
Reasoning on those cards where that Lingering Souls is the card they hate more than Stony Silence, trust me that they don't mind so much about SS when they see lingering souls and they don't play whipflare these days, I took in a Nature's Claim for obvious reasons, and 2 Spellskite because it stops the triggers on Arcbound Ravager and can block etched champion. Leonin Arbiter comes out because they really only run 1/2 basics and when they have extra land its not that degenerate, also I like keeping track in game 1 how many galvanic blasts they are packing sometimes they might show you 1-2 and some lists are running 3-4 now so Thalia has some game there, he didn't play one and I hedge a bet he is playing 1-2, Thalia isn't fantastic in this match but is better than arbiter and less good than taking all the witness's out.
Game 2, He mulligans to 6 I have to mulligan to 5 to see ANY land
He steamrolls me because im down to 5 and have some paths and vial, decent enough but he goes super wide and has enough disruption.
Game 3, we both mulligan to 6, he doesn't vomit his hand turn 1 and I have turn 1 Noble into a TKS and take his only boosting card of Cranial Plating, he draws into arbound ravager and he has to go almost all in on his Inkmoth plan since thats what's doing the damage, He miss plays dumping so much into the nexus that I can just Displacer lock his attack, he has afew flying attackers doing normal damage I finally draw into Lingering souls and just win slowly after with a TKS and consistently blinking his threats.
Round 4, 2/0 WIN, I'm close to being on top and get paired down sadly and go against someone on 7, 2/0 (Burn no Nacatyl)
I have a really odd hand but it has the turn 2 leonin arbiter combo with GC/Hierarch so I take it (I'm on the play), this just completely takes my opponent out of the game since he has a follow up fetch land and when I drop thalia he scoops, since he had only Goblin Guide. He only saw Hierarch and "hatebears" so he put me on that as I found out after.
Sideboard was exactly the same as the other burn player.
Game 2 I drop my Leyline and he looks for a bit, drops a sacred foundry tapped and pass (evil laugh inside, I plonk down an temple with the idea of hoping for another since I have TKS in hand and smasher, I didn't luck out but got Spellskite down turn 2 he goes fetch land and gets a Stomping ground gets a Eidolon of the great revel and passes, I draw into a Hierarch and get that down fast, he paths's my Spellskite and Destructive Revelry's the leyline so now he think he has game, I play smasher into another smasher next turn and he can't beat the 10 power damage each turn :).
Conclusion; Smasher is great its like a version of Restoration angel, it doesn't save a creature but it gives you the same card advantage also hits for more and can attack the turn it comes down, most of the time you can get it on turn 4 sometimes turn 3 which is just bonkers. The lack of flyers was compensated for by having Lingering souls in the side, although interestingly I do think we need some amount of aven mindcensor these days, now I played against some heavy agro decks last night, so its not like I'm sold on the plan this is the best list we all should run it, it does VERY well against agro, I've also got a lot of experience with the GW shell too, I loved having 3 Displacers and 2 witness, it seems like the correct number, I think Qasali Pridemage could go to the board to get some amount of Aven Mindcensor mainboard however Combo seems like it could be a bigger issue, Not sure on sideboard either right now since sweepers don't kill the creatures that are important finishers TKS/Smasher, Moving forward I think I'm going to include some amount of Revokers or Pithing Needle for pesky plainswalkers or anything with activated abilities.
I feel with the list that its great against any form of Creature match ups, getting to cast your creatures ahead of curve means that you can race the traditional aggro style decks as you saw from my report. This was happening in my testing with the current list before FNM too.
Feel free to ask me about anything too.
Chris
I really enjoy how Noble offers up so many more opportunities for busted lines in G/W DnT. If there is one deck where Reality Smasher really makes an impact it's this version. It also really opens us up to the possibility of turn 2 Thought-Knot, which is down right mean. I never made up my mind whether Noble fit in the GW versions of the deck that ran Restoration Angels or Collective Company as its top end, but making TKS a 5/5 helps it win ground wars and really turns up the heat with the trample backed Reality Smashers. Combine that with turn two Leonin Arbiter/ ghost quarter plays and the ability to pay to pump Gavony Township and you have a reAL winner.
Congrats on your 4-0.
This list is really interesting for me. I've been toying with GW E&T a bit and I know Beno did some work with it too, but this list is put together in a bit different of a way from mine.
Firstly, I want to note that I usually don't like reality smasher because it costs 5 and without the eldrazi temple, that's just too slow for me, but in GW I can see jamming 2 since hierarch can help accelerate it out.
I'm interested by your Resto Vs TKS comparison. You mean that they both take 1 card since you can use resto to blink removal, but you can use TKS to take a card. I'd like to go into a little more depth here. Let's start with a pure stat comparison; so TKS is a 4/4, but doesn't have evasion. I probably am going to want flying more than one more power so on this I'd give the edge slightly to resto. As far as casting cost goes, Resto is easier to cast and doesn't make us go into the magical land of eldrazi temples, but we already run a lot of utility lands and if you do run the temple, then TKS can actually be cheaper, BUT (and this is a big but) resto has flash which helps even more to get in that last bit of damage or to get around counter spells. I'm not sure who gets the edge here since it's heavily list dependent. It could honestly go either way for me. I guess in a vacum resto probably gets the edge since it doesn't make you build your list around it as much, but with the right list, TKS might have some more oomf to it.
I also want to take a look at their abilities side by side: so with resto we get to blink a dude. This, as you mentioned is a great way to blank a removal spell. It can also abuse EtB effects such as with cards like blade splicer or doing tricky things with flickerwisp which can make it more versatile than TKS. HOWEVER, TKS does something when it comes in regardless of if you have other creatures and can hit more than just a removal spell if that's how you want to view resto. TKS does depend on them having a hand though. A big difference is that if they manage to kill TKS, it draws them a card which is not so cool for us. But having information and hand disruption available in GW is a big deal.
Picking between them is a hard call. Do you think pushing your list to be and E&T list is worth it over resto? (I don't mean this in just GW and I'm also aware it's more complicated than just resto vs TKS).
Which do you prefer?
Your tiny microsplash into black (really just the fetches and the godless shrine isn't it?) seems interesting, but perhaps too cute and too fragile. Do you find being able to run lingering souls in the board worth the extra points of damage from the fecthes? After all, you could just be running razorverge thicket instead which is generally more reliable in that it doesn't hurt you and it's usually untapped. Note: I like the idea of being able to actually pay the black for surgical extraction on occasion as well.
You talked about maybe cutting qasali pridemage. Do you just feel like affinity and other decks that cards it can hit aren't a big enough part of the meta what with splinter twin gone? For other 2 drops, what do you think of scavenging ooze in a list like this?
I'm playing 3 magus and 2 sword of war and peace in my deck currently. Once they get locked out path and bolt are the two things that can help them recover. War and peace stops that while providing a huge clock with all the cards stuck in their hand.
I've got a sin prodder online to try out but I decided to go for two mindcensors instead.
Hey all, it's been a while but I was finally able to play again in our local tourney yesterday. Went 3-1-1 and took 3rd place with the following Mono W list:
Quick Recap: *Note - I mulligan every single game to 6 or sometimes 5.
Round 1 - Storm (1-2)
Game 1 - This guy is a really good player but Thalia and the flying horse lock him out of any possible win.
Game 2 - (in 3 leyline, 2 RIP - out collar, anything over 4CMC & 3 path) I keep a hand with RIP and 2 lands but no white source but he lands an electromancer and combos turn 3 with an empty the warrens.
Game 3 - (I bring in the bomb and a path and take out mindcensor and collar) I keep a hand with turn 0 Leyline and thalia but he draws 3 of his 4 sideboard bolts and goes off again on turn 4 with an empty the warrens for 14. Never saw the bomb. He went on to take 2nd place.
Round 2 - Restore Balance (1-1-1)
Game 1 - Super grindy and he resolves every copy of Restore Balance and finally wins with Nahiri into Emrakul.
Game 2 - (in bomb, purge, out archangel, leige) I land an early Thalia and the flying horse and he can't Ardent Plea into Restore balance until he's at 4 life and then realizes he can't pay the 2 extra generic to cast the balance and loses the next turn.
Game 3 - (SB stays the same) No early taxers but I land a Bomb on turn 2 and tick it up to 3 to take out all his borderposts. Never draw a white source until turn 4 of extra turns and he can't win so it ends in a draw.
Round 3 - Naya Burn (2-0)
*I realize I forgot to take out my SB cards and let my opponent know - he decisdes to let me play and not give me a game loss
Game 1 - He burns a bunch of my taxing creatures but only gets me down to 6. I land a spellskite to protect my Serra Avenger and take slowly take the game.
Game 2 - He gets me down to 1 life and I'm able to keep my Avenger alive due to a misplay on his part. I topdeck a Leyline and then a spellskite which I can pay for with the Temple of Enlightenment. Win at 1 life.
After the tourney I gave him one of my prize packs for not giving me an automatic game loss which he appreciated since he didn't place
Round 4 - Rakdos Storm (2-0)
Game 1 - I get some taxers in play but he is still able to play spells and gets me down to 6 and has some zombies in play. I'm able to path some and wisp some and land a crusader that he can't deal with so he scoops.
Game 2 - (in 3 leyline, 2 RIP - out Resto, Tithes, 2 mindcensors, 1 arbiter) Keep a hand with turn 0 Leyline arbiter, thalia, vial and GQ + plains. I take him off red early but he finds more and draws 3 bolts for thalia and blade splicer golem tokens. I wisp to get another token and he bolts the token after in comes back instead of bolting the splicer in respose to my wisp trigger lol. I swing for exactsies a couple turns later with some flyers and my nexus.
Round 5 - Grixis control (2-0)
Game 1 - I keep a decent hand with taxers and lots of threats. Eventually I flood the board and he can only delay the inevitable with his cryptic commands.
Game 2 - (in 3 leyline, 2 RIP, Resto - out Archangel, Leige, collar, 2 paths, 1 mindcensor) I keep a hand with 2 vials, thalia, arbiter, leyline and plains. I draw land and another arbiter and get both on the board. He pays 2 to fetch and I tell him he can't search b/c 2 arbiters. We ask a judge and he confirms no fetch but I let him take it back and he just passes the turn. I pick up an avenger and spellskite and he lands a Tasigur and then a kalitas and we race. I end up swinging for exactsies and he dies with a bolt in hand and only 4 lands in play.
He was cool and talked about misplays we both made. Found out he usually plays Mardu and is new to Grixis.
Not sure how I feel about Basilisk Collar as I played it but never equipped it. I guess it would have been more relevant against elves or fish where the first strike + deathtouch (deathstrike?) could pick off attackers or force through damage and pad life total.
Sigarda is probably going to do more work than Thrun. Her ability messes up jund more than a Thrun would and I'd image they are both pretty similar vs. UWR
Any thoughts about this build? I'm a little iffy on the sideboard, and I know that's meta dependent, but pros and cons of what I have in there at the moment would be helpful. I don't really know the meta at my local LGS quite yet, as I've only played a few non-competitive REL games against my friend running Ad Nauseam. Thanks!
Geist of Saint Traft is a beast. Judge's Familiar gets better with equipment and you have Ninja of the Deep Hours to actually get some card advantage in the deck which is something it really lacks. Also gets really cute with Thalia's first strike.
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Playing: Modern: BWEldrazi and TaxesBW Legacy: WEldraziW
@Jendo playing fetchlands with your own Leonin Arbiters is a huge, huge non-bo.
You... must be new here.
Playing Arbiter with fetchlands can be a nonbo, but it usually doesn't work out that way. If you see an opener with a fetchland and an Arbiter, you just sequence your plays so that you crack the fetchland before you drop the Arbiter. If it's late in the game, and you topdeck a fetchland when you have an Arbiter on the battlefield, you can usually just pay the tax anyway.
The only time it's actually a nonbo, is when you drop the Arbiter, and then immediately topdeck a fetchland. In that case, the fetchland probably represents your third or fourth mana source. I'm not going to say that it never happens, but it happens less frequently than you'd think.
Fetchlands in this deck are fine. I wouldn't run more than 4 though, and many people run fewer.
Geist of Saint Traft is a beast. Judge's Familiar gets better with equipment and you have Ninja of the Deep Hours to actually get some card advantage in the deck which is something it really lacks. Also gets really cute with Thalia's first strike.
I've played WU a lot, and this list needs a lot of tuning. It looks like it's trying to be Tempo and Taxes, but it's not quite getting there.
Here are my thoughts:
Four Familiars are too many. It's great on T1 (and even better on T2 off of an Æther Vial, but it's a terrible topdeck in the late game. If you want this effect, I think 2-3 is probably the right number.
Ninja of the Deep Hours is terrible. Don't play it. I know. I've tried. It looks like a source of card advantage, but it's not going to be. Unless you can pay the Ninjutsu cost, it's just a more expensive Stealer of Secrets, which is already unplayable. But even for the Ninjutsu cost, it's really just a 2/2 for 2 that (almost) reads "when this creature enters the battlefield, draw a card". In a tight game, this card will never connect more than once. At the end of the day, it's fragile and it's outclassed by every creature in Modern, including the one-drops.
You're running 3 Blade Splicers with only 4 flicker enablers, which is pretty light for this deck. I like Blade Splicer, but you're not running the kind of list that takes advantage of its effect.
GoST is okay as a 3-of, although I'm more comfortable with it as a 2-of. If you do a good job of protecting the first one, you shouldn't need more, although having more gives you more opportunity to attack.
My recommendation is to turn this into Tempo and Taxes, and then watch your opponents struggle against it.
Something like:
-1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-1 Sword of Light and Shadow
-1 Geist of Saint Traft
-4 Judge's Familiar
-3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Does anyone have any thoughts on Mirror Mockery in WU D&T? Some WU Control deck used one against me the other day and it looked interesting. At worst it stops most big baddies from attacking us (using it defensively) but at best it could (offensively) let Wisp/Reflector bounce something around once-per-turn. Its only 1U and has offensive/defensive flexibility, but the fact that it can't re-equip has me guessing it probably isn't worth slotting in place of a Sword?
Possibly related, is another cute blink combo I saw in deck creation using Sundial of the Infinite. Multiples are horrible, but having one online when you play a Wisp turns it into a flying Vindicate or it turns Geist's Angel tokens permanent (also Mirror Mockery tokens, etc.).
I'm all about innovation, but one of the pitfalls of this deck for newer players is overreliance on card interactions. Each card in the deck needs to be able to stand on its own and improve through synergy with other cards.
We play Leonin Arbiter, for example, because it disrupts other decks and hits for two, not because we are counting on his interaction with Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile. Of course we exploit these interactions when we can, but the card has to be solid without it or it isn't worth playing.
There are some exceptions, like Eldrazi Temple and Noble Hierarch which are played for their potent capability to elevate other cards, but these must have incredibly powerful synergy to be counted on that basis alone, and I honestly can think of no other cards I would include solely for this reason.
One of the best board states my list can produce is Eldrazi Displacer-Flickerwisp-Wasteland Strangler-6 Lands (less with 1 or more Temples on the board). Does this always happen? No. Has it happened in competitive play? Yes. More than once? Yes. Are each of these cards valuable without each other on the table? Definitely.
Be careful with your card choices. If something is only good under a limited set of circumstances, and isn't useful by itself, then it probably doesn't make the cut.
On an unrelated note...
Reality Smasher is the endgame bomb of versions of the deck that run Eldrazi Temple. Every time I see someone say to cut it I cringe. It would be like playing GR Tron without Newlamog. Yeah, the deck is still great without it, but since you can play it, why the hell wouldn't you?
Reality Smasher lets us bully a lot of decks that can be problematic and wall off creatures like Siege Rhino, Tasigur, and Tarmogoyf. Why wouldn't we play it in a deck that can drop it as early as Turn 3?
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
Hey gang. I've been taking a break from dnt and I come back to find that we're tier two? Woot woot!
I've been considering a few things in my absence. Firstly, just how good eternal witness is as others have said over the past few pages. It gets back our dead value creatures but it can also get back removal and land destruction to press our advantage. Benno nailed it. Witness is the card advantage engine we've wanted.
Secondly, if dromoka's command is main deck material. We're short on removal overall and this helps and can also save our creatures from blow outs.
Third, surgical extraction is great insurance against any deck running path to exile. I find that they always have one for my voice of resurgence, finks or smiter and bolts for everything else. Extraction gets rid of all of them while peaking at there library and hand for the low cost of two life.
I guess I'm late to the party in 2/3 of these observations.
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Your success in playing dnt/hatebears is determined largely by your ability to read and prepare for the meta that you will be playing in. Furthermore, it has an absolutely brutal learning curve. Expect to lose; a lot.
@mightybenno
This looks a lot like my version of GW D&T. It's nice to see our style list can still hit hard.
Our lands looks a little bit different though because the last time I sleeved up, my list only had 1 displacer not two, but I can see the pull for two.
Would you care to go over your SB with me? In particular I'm interested in your plan vs Abzan coco. (I agree about 2 scooze main since it helps in MUs like this and I've always been a fan of surgical, but I'm curious if it feels like enough).
Thanks! I can see the pull for either as well. It's hard to looks at either card in a vacuum since they're both fairly list dependent to get full value out of.
I also would like to note that I agree with you about reality smasher. I think GW E&T is the only list I'm really okay with it in. It's definitely too slow in a non E&T list and even in them without the mana acceleration, I think it's too slow since we don't always see temple It's just not reliable enough without mana accel in the form of hierarch plus temple for me. Especially since it's just a beater. In the right list, it can be strong. It's undeniably a good card, but I think it's often not right for us.
Thanks for both your input; will try your recommendations when next sb-ing against Abzan Coco. I too have felt that 2x Cage is a little too much, esp since I alr have 2x RIP, so I will be bringing that down to 1 in the SB.
As for MB, played a few more games where revoker MB only slows them down just a little, since they can easily find a Redcap (if I do not have Arbiter/Mindcensor in play) and shoot down my revoker first before combo-ing off. I think what I'll do is replace them with 1x Linvala, and 1x Fiend Hunter.
Hoping to play in an event this weekend and report back!
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
GW Death and Taxes WG
Did a little playtesting in the Just for Fun room of MTGO with a horrible RW build but had a lot of fun***. I wanted to give Scab-Clan Berserker a try, and she's a $0.50/0.05tix rare so I got a set and tried her out.
***There was a fair amount of eye-rolling, exasperation, and rage also, but that's mostly due to how bad the variance on drawing a full cohesive strategy was with my decklist.
4 Topplegeist
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Spellskite
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
4 Flickerwisp
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tarfire
Lands (23)
4 Ghost Quarter
10 Plains
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Mountain
There were a couple ideas being tested here:
Getting delirium was still hard even when running Tarfire and artifact creatures. Never again.
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Magus of the Moon
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Scab-Clan Berserker
3 Spellskite
4 Flickerwisp
2 Restoration Angel
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Ajani Vengeant
Lands (23)
4 Ghost Quarter
8 Plains
3 Mountain
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Clifftop Retreat
This is a rough outline and the curve seems way too high even if Bolt is taking up a number of those 1-drop slots. Kiki+Angel as a Plan B might be too disjoint from the rest of the plan to be optimal- going all-in with more Eidolons (8-Revel) and some Finks to counteract the self-burn might be better and more streamlined. Actually, the RW control combo of Nahiri+Emrakul might just be too good to pass up here. She's almost as good as draw with her +2 filter effect, she can exile trouble permanents, and her ultimate into Emrakul is pretty crazy strong considering it only takes +2,+2,-8 to get there. Hmm, maybe I should just type up that list instead... Input welcome!
I'd like to try this out but don't really want to buy into Eidolon and Magus (or Nahiri) just yet- maybe I'll have to learn to love Xmage or something.
TL;DR: Scab-Clan Berserker is interesting but too cute by herself. Might pair well with Eidolon in some sort of 8-Revel deck (probably leveraging Magus of the Moon to get ahead), but I don't have those cards and haven't done that playtesting.
Thanks for the input, I'm actually struggling to find some more creatures I like in RW Taxes. Serra Avenger felt very boring without equipment and Brimaz was decent but felt slow. I may give Scab-Clan Berserker a go and try to avoid cards with WW except for Flickerwisp.
Playing:
Modern:
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
Legacy:
WEldraziW
Awesome Red Tax Cards:
Ajani Vengeant: he is an actual prison.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar: wide enough to be a finisher and aggro answer.
Magus of the Moon: upgrade to your Aven mindcensors/Leonin arbiter.
Wear and Tear: great utility disenchant from the board.
Lightning Bolt: paths 5 & 6 ... Maybe even 7/8.
Bonfire of the Damned: great sideboard sweeper that can finish the game.
Wall of Omens: the red build lack threat and control density. Wall of omens allows you to find critical pieces while protecting you from the Aggro strategies.
Here goes a slightly outdated list but a quick example of what functioned for me. I had roughly a 66% win ratio with this:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ajani-and-taxes/
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
I really enjoy how Noble offers up so many more opportunities for busted lines in G/W DnT. If there is one deck where Reality Smasher really makes an impact it's this version. It also really opens us up to the possibility of turn 2 Thought-Knot, which is down right mean. I never made up my mind whether Noble fit in the GW versions of the deck that ran Restoration Angels or Collective Company as its top end, but making TKS a 5/5 helps it win ground wars and really turns up the heat with the trample backed Reality Smashers. Combine that with turn two Leonin Arbiter/ ghost quarter plays and the ability to pay to pump Gavony Township and you have a reAL winner.
Congrats on your 4-0.
This list is really interesting for me. I've been toying with GW E&T a bit and I know Beno did some work with it too, but this list is put together in a bit different of a way from mine.
Firstly, I want to note that I usually don't like reality smasher because it costs 5 and without the eldrazi temple, that's just too slow for me, but in GW I can see jamming 2 since hierarch can help accelerate it out.
I'm interested by your Resto Vs TKS comparison. You mean that they both take 1 card since you can use resto to blink removal, but you can use TKS to take a card. I'd like to go into a little more depth here. Let's start with a pure stat comparison; so TKS is a 4/4, but doesn't have evasion. I probably am going to want flying more than one more power so on this I'd give the edge slightly to resto. As far as casting cost goes, Resto is easier to cast and doesn't make us go into the magical land of eldrazi temples, but we already run a lot of utility lands and if you do run the temple, then TKS can actually be cheaper, BUT (and this is a big but) resto has flash which helps even more to get in that last bit of damage or to get around counter spells. I'm not sure who gets the edge here since it's heavily list dependent. It could honestly go either way for me. I guess in a vacum resto probably gets the edge since it doesn't make you build your list around it as much, but with the right list, TKS might have some more oomf to it.
I also want to take a look at their abilities side by side: so with resto we get to blink a dude. This, as you mentioned is a great way to blank a removal spell. It can also abuse EtB effects such as with cards like blade splicer or doing tricky things with flickerwisp which can make it more versatile than TKS. HOWEVER, TKS does something when it comes in regardless of if you have other creatures and can hit more than just a removal spell if that's how you want to view resto. TKS does depend on them having a hand though. A big difference is that if they manage to kill TKS, it draws them a card which is not so cool for us. But having information and hand disruption available in GW is a big deal.
Picking between them is a hard call. Do you think pushing your list to be and E&T list is worth it over resto? (I don't mean this in just GW and I'm also aware it's more complicated than just resto vs TKS).
Which do you prefer?
Your tiny microsplash into black (really just the fetches and the godless shrine isn't it?) seems interesting, but perhaps too cute and too fragile. Do you find being able to run lingering souls in the board worth the extra points of damage from the fecthes? After all, you could just be running razorverge thicket instead which is generally more reliable in that it doesn't hurt you and it's usually untapped. Note: I like the idea of being able to actually pay the black for surgical extraction on occasion as well.
You talked about maybe cutting qasali pridemage. Do you just feel like affinity and other decks that cards it can hit aren't a big enough part of the meta what with splinter twin gone? For other 2 drops, what do you think of scavenging ooze in a list like this?
Thanks!
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
I've got a sin prodder online to try out but I decided to go for two mindcensors instead.
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Serra Avenger
2 Vryn Wingmare
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Blade Splicer
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Wall of Resurgence
1 Spellskite
1 Archangel of Tithes
1 Restoration Angel
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 Basilisk Collar
Lands (23)
13 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Mutavault
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Celestial Purge
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Stonecloaker
1 Wrath of God
1 Worship
1 Restoration Angel
Quick Recap: *Note - I mulligan every single game to 6 or sometimes 5.
Round 1 - Storm (1-2)
Game 1 - This guy is a really good player but Thalia and the flying horse lock him out of any possible win.
Game 2 - (in 3 leyline, 2 RIP - out collar, anything over 4CMC & 3 path) I keep a hand with RIP and 2 lands but no white source but he lands an electromancer and combos turn 3 with an empty the warrens.
Game 3 - (I bring in the bomb and a path and take out mindcensor and collar) I keep a hand with turn 0 Leyline and thalia but he draws 3 of his 4 sideboard bolts and goes off again on turn 4 with an empty the warrens for 14. Never saw the bomb. He went on to take 2nd place.
Round 2 - Restore Balance (1-1-1)
Game 1 - Super grindy and he resolves every copy of Restore Balance and finally wins with Nahiri into Emrakul.
Game 2 - (in bomb, purge, out archangel, leige) I land an early Thalia and the flying horse and he can't Ardent Plea into Restore balance until he's at 4 life and then realizes he can't pay the 2 extra generic to cast the balance and loses the next turn.
Game 3 - (SB stays the same) No early taxers but I land a Bomb on turn 2 and tick it up to 3 to take out all his borderposts. Never draw a white source until turn 4 of extra turns and he can't win so it ends in a draw.
Round 3 - Naya Burn (2-0)
*I realize I forgot to take out my SB cards and let my opponent know - he decisdes to let me play and not give me a game loss
Game 1 - He burns a bunch of my taxing creatures but only gets me down to 6. I land a spellskite to protect my Serra Avenger and take slowly take the game.
Game 2 - He gets me down to 1 life and I'm able to keep my Avenger alive due to a misplay on his part. I topdeck a Leyline and then a spellskite which I can pay for with the Temple of Enlightenment. Win at 1 life.
After the tourney I gave him one of my prize packs for not giving me an automatic game loss which he appreciated since he didn't place
Round 4 - Rakdos Storm (2-0)
Game 1 - I get some taxers in play but he is still able to play spells and gets me down to 6 and has some zombies in play. I'm able to path some and wisp some and land a crusader that he can't deal with so he scoops.
Game 2 - (in 3 leyline, 2 RIP - out Resto, Tithes, 2 mindcensors, 1 arbiter) Keep a hand with turn 0 Leyline arbiter, thalia, vial and GQ + plains. I take him off red early but he finds more and draws 3 bolts for thalia and blade splicer golem tokens. I wisp to get another token and he bolts the token after in comes back instead of bolting the splicer in respose to my wisp trigger lol. I swing for exactsies a couple turns later with some flyers and my nexus.
Round 5 - Grixis control (2-0)
Game 1 - I keep a decent hand with taxers and lots of threats. Eventually I flood the board and he can only delay the inevitable with his cryptic commands.
Game 2 - (in 3 leyline, 2 RIP, Resto - out Archangel, Leige, collar, 2 paths, 1 mindcensor) I keep a hand with 2 vials, thalia, arbiter, leyline and plains. I draw land and another arbiter and get both on the board. He pays 2 to fetch and I tell him he can't search b/c 2 arbiters. We ask a judge and he confirms no fetch but I let him take it back and he just passes the turn. I pick up an avenger and spellskite and he lands a Tasigur and then a kalitas and we race. I end up swinging for exactsies and he dies with a bolt in hand and only 4 lands in play.
He was cool and talked about misplays we both made. Found out he usually plays Mardu and is new to Grixis.
Final thoughts
I feel like we are pretty well-positioned in this spell-heavy meta. I personally did not play awesome magic, but my opponents made errors and D&T was favored in most of my matchups. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Vryn Wingmare,Leyline of Sanctity, and Mirran Crusader were MVP's and Serra Avenger closed out most games. Blinkmoth Nexus was nice to have around and helped me hit exactsies twice.
Not sure how I feel about Basilisk Collar as I played it but never equipped it. I guess it would have been more relevant against elves or fish where the first strike + deathtouch (deathstrike?) could pick off attackers or force through damage and pad life total.
Never saw my Wilt-Leaf Liege or Wall of Resurgence so no comment there.
Too many games I had only colorless or 1 white source - maybe it was just bad luck on my part
I hope this (not so) brief report provided some sort of insight/entertainment!
4 Path to Exile
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Blade Splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Restoration Angel
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
1 Fetid Heath
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Godless Shrine
2 Mutavault
5 Plains
2 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Rest in Peace
1 Spellskite
2 Stony Silence
Any thoughts about this build? I'm a little iffy on the sideboard, and I know that's meta dependent, but pros and cons of what I have in there at the moment would be helpful. I don't really know the meta at my local LGS quite yet, as I've only played a few non-competitive REL games against my friend running Ad Nauseam. Thanks!
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
BG Collected Company Elves
Legacy
W Death and Taxes
EDH
GW Sigarda, Host of Herons
GW Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Blade Splicer
4 Flickerwisp
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Moorland Haunt
5 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Tectonic Edge
Geist of Saint Traft is a beast. Judge's Familiar gets better with equipment and you have Ninja of the Deep Hours to actually get some card advantage in the deck which is something it really lacks. Also gets really cute with Thalia's first strike.
Playing:
Modern:
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
Legacy:
WEldraziW
Playing Arbiter with fetchlands can be a nonbo, but it usually doesn't work out that way. If you see an opener with a fetchland and an Arbiter, you just sequence your plays so that you crack the fetchland before you drop the Arbiter. If it's late in the game, and you topdeck a fetchland when you have an Arbiter on the battlefield, you can usually just pay the tax anyway.
The only time it's actually a nonbo, is when you drop the Arbiter, and then immediately topdeck a fetchland. In that case, the fetchland probably represents your third or fourth mana source. I'm not going to say that it never happens, but it happens less frequently than you'd think.
Fetchlands in this deck are fine. I wouldn't run more than 4 though, and many people run fewer.
I've played WU a lot, and this list needs a lot of tuning. It looks like it's trying to be Tempo and Taxes, but it's not quite getting there.
Here are my thoughts:
Four Familiars are too many. It's great on T1 (and even better on T2 off of an Æther Vial, but it's a terrible topdeck in the late game. If you want this effect, I think 2-3 is probably the right number.
Ninja of the Deep Hours is terrible. Don't play it. I know. I've tried. It looks like a source of card advantage, but it's not going to be. Unless you can pay the Ninjutsu cost, it's just a more expensive Stealer of Secrets, which is already unplayable. But even for the Ninjutsu cost, it's really just a 2/2 for 2 that (almost) reads "when this creature enters the battlefield, draw a card". In a tight game, this card will never connect more than once. At the end of the day, it's fragile and it's outclassed by every creature in Modern, including the one-drops.
You're running 3 Blade Splicers with only 4 flicker enablers, which is pretty light for this deck. I like Blade Splicer, but you're not running the kind of list that takes advantage of its effect.
GoST is okay as a 3-of, although I'm more comfortable with it as a 2-of. If you do a good job of protecting the first one, you shouldn't need more, although having more gives you more opportunity to attack.
My recommendation is to turn this into Tempo and Taxes, and then watch your opponents struggle against it.
Something like:
-1 Sword of Fire and Ice
-1 Sword of Light and Shadow
-1 Geist of Saint Traft
-4 Judge's Familiar
-3 Ninja of the Deep Hours
+3 Reflector Mage
+3 Restoration Angel
+2 Vendilion Clique
+2 Phantasmal Image
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Possibly related, is another cute blink combo I saw in deck creation using Sundial of the Infinite. Multiples are horrible, but having one online when you play a Wisp turns it into a flying Vindicate or it turns Geist's Angel tokens permanent (also Mirror Mockery tokens, etc.).
We play Leonin Arbiter, for example, because it disrupts other decks and hits for two, not because we are counting on his interaction with Ghost Quarter and Path to Exile. Of course we exploit these interactions when we can, but the card has to be solid without it or it isn't worth playing.
There are some exceptions, like Eldrazi Temple and Noble Hierarch which are played for their potent capability to elevate other cards, but these must have incredibly powerful synergy to be counted on that basis alone, and I honestly can think of no other cards I would include solely for this reason.
One of the best board states my list can produce is Eldrazi Displacer-Flickerwisp-Wasteland Strangler-6 Lands (less with 1 or more Temples on the board). Does this always happen? No. Has it happened in competitive play? Yes. More than once? Yes. Are each of these cards valuable without each other on the table? Definitely.
Be careful with your card choices. If something is only good under a limited set of circumstances, and isn't useful by itself, then it probably doesn't make the cut.
On an unrelated note...
Reality Smasher is the endgame bomb of versions of the deck that run Eldrazi Temple. Every time I see someone say to cut it I cringe. It would be like playing GR Tron without Newlamog. Yeah, the deck is still great without it, but since you can play it, why the hell wouldn't you?
Reality Smasher lets us bully a lot of decks that can be problematic and wall off creatures like Siege Rhino, Tasigur, and Tarmogoyf. Why wouldn't we play it in a deck that can drop it as early as Turn 3?
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
I've been considering a few things in my absence. Firstly, just how good eternal witness is as others have said over the past few pages. It gets back our dead value creatures but it can also get back removal and land destruction to press our advantage. Benno nailed it. Witness is the card advantage engine we've wanted.
Secondly, if dromoka's command is main deck material. We're short on removal overall and this helps and can also save our creatures from blow outs.
Third, surgical extraction is great insurance against any deck running path to exile. I find that they always have one for my voice of resurgence, finks or smiter and bolts for everything else. Extraction gets rid of all of them while peaking at there library and hand for the low cost of two life.
I guess I'm late to the party in 2/3 of these observations.
This looks a lot like my version of GW D&T. It's nice to see our style list can still hit hard.
Our lands looks a little bit different though because the last time I sleeved up, my list only had 1 displacer not two, but I can see the pull for two.
Would you care to go over your SB with me? In particular I'm interested in your plan vs Abzan coco. (I agree about 2 scooze main since it helps in MUs like this and I've always been a fan of surgical, but I'm curious if it feels like enough).
Thanks! I can see the pull for either as well. It's hard to looks at either card in a vacuum since they're both fairly list dependent to get full value out of.
I also would like to note that I agree with you about reality smasher. I think GW E&T is the only list I'm really okay with it in. It's definitely too slow in a non E&T list and even in them without the mana acceleration, I think it's too slow since we don't always see temple It's just not reliable enough without mana accel in the form of hierarch plus temple for me. Especially since it's just a beater. In the right list, it can be strong. It's undeniably a good card, but I think it's often not right for us.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance