Has anyone tried Blind Obedience? It's janky but seems like it could be a 1-of hedge against Twin, Tron, Affinity, artifact combo, and give some slight resource grind against control where most of your stuff is getting countered and games go super long.
I am planning to play some local PTQ this month and I found this deck is very similar to what I play in legacy: Painted Stone. In Modern format I think the most powerful cards could be Blood Moon, Leyline of Sanctity and Ensnaring Bridge(or Ghostly Prison).
Blood Moon shuts down most three color decks and we can play Koth for the win con.
Leyline of Sanctity shuts down Storm, Burn and Scapeshift. It also beats Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek and Lightning Bolt.
Ensnaring Bridge is a very powerful card which beats most beat down decks but not Affinity. Ghostly Prison could be better in some situations but it can not beat Tarmogoyf.
Some decks could have answers like Abrupt Decay and Cryptic Command. So I will play at least one copy of Privileged Position or Greater Auramancy. Ajani Vengeant and Assemble the Legion could be very good here. Ajani can win the game alone and Assemble the Legion is nearly unbeatable in Modern. Idyllic Tutor is slow, but it could be helpful if you are playing many one-ofs main deck such as Rest in Peace and Stony Silence. Lightning Helix and Anger of the Gods are very good answers in many situations.
But I found Affinity could be a very bad match up. It's just too fast for us to set up a lock and it's very difficult to lock Cranial Plating without Stony Silence.
This is the deck I will play this weekend.
Can't really see the resemblence between this and painter, bar the blood moon.....more like a parfait with blood moon (which is actually on the parfait thread in the last week, by coincidence), or a quin list that also run painter and lots of other combos. Anyway, that is irrelevant.
On the deck list- blood moon will work against a percentage of decks in the field, leyline ditto- and both will be awful against others. I am not saying either belongs in the board-it is all meta dependent- but it is worth baring in mind that hatebear lists, and to a large extent rock, storm, burn and twin ignore blood moon, whilst a resolved moon can steal game one vs scapeshift, usa, rg tron, pod and jund, although the latter two still have plenty of outs. Leyline is great vs rock, scapeshift, tokens and jund, but useless vs hatebear, twin (bar probe effects) lists. I would be worried having both such binary cards in the main at 7 copies between them.
Nodes is very, very slow,- I love it, but am suspicious of it in a d deck like this. Your bridge package supports walkers- I have no bridge and have found walkers to be poor when relying on prison.
Not sure on SSG in this type of list- you have no card advantage anywhere, and whilst bridge do indeed shut decks down, your win cons are much longer than in say, 8 rack, so they will get opportunities to come back. Pod and its ilk are bloody resilient- as is jund/junk. Hatebears can control the board well too. I would consider at least one bottled cloister, which works wonders with bridge, to get CA if the game goes long, and a couple more flexi cards- orings, sceptres of dominance, whatever- just cards that give more main flexability- hell even a couple more planeswalkers- more ajnis, elspeths etc. I like the double halo, they are great and the sort of card I am talking about.
On affinity- its one of the best g1 decks out there. Just make sure you have a great game 2. Aura of silence, stony silence, shatterstorm, wrath even- if you want to beat this match you can- if you find too many slots in the board are being swallowed up then try more sweepers like wrath and also up the prison count in the main to 4.
My version wins a lot of affinity g1 matches by virtue of tying their resources up- prisons, magus of the tabernacles, cheap t2/3 landkill, halos and late game mystifying mazes, with aura of silence a star game 2- it stops the "all in" approach with ravager modular counters. Unusually I have beaten them 2-0 too, sometimes. It also slows them to a crawl when followed by magus or ghostly. They can beat bridge with 0 cc men and ravager or plating switch mid combat- so again look at cards to deal with that.
Noting that plating will hurt you, I would definitely get a couple o rings main.
One worry I have is this- there is a lot of anti boggles hate out there- skites are expensive, and are best of course0, but enchantment sweepers (eg the planeshifted reverent silence or indeed back to nature) are fifteen cents/pence and often end up in people's boards.
Has anyone tried Blind Obedience? It's janky but seems like it could be a 1-of hedge against Twin, Tron, Affinity, artifact combo, and give some slight resource grind against control where most of your stuff is getting countered and games go super long.
Yes, a couple of people on the old thread tried it- I have done. Was not impressed but I did not use it long enough to tell. We need to do stuff t2 for sure- I use signets, bolts, helix and boom//bust which needs one of 6 lands to combo. Sometimes this is not enough- but the main issue I had was I was not extoring often enough. The tapped thing never beats twin anyway against decent players- it is a shame they could not have made it so that it could stop creatures being made after end of turn effects have gone on the stack.............
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I hadn't seen this forum thread before and this is what I had brewed prior to discovering this. I have had pretty good success with it, beating all three Twin variants, Blue moon, Pod (melira/kikki), 8 Rack, as well as RG Tron and U Tron.
Hello and welcome. Looks like a classic boros bridge build, albiet a bit light on bridges.
I would expect you to have strong twin, 8 rack and perhaps pod matches- but I am not certain how you beat RG tron- the nemesis of bridge builds with little landkill is normally tron and usa control. Like your board though-lots of overlap vs top stratgies- that may explain some tron wins with the sowing salts. What we all want is decent tutoring for our enchantments- irrespective of what type of lockdown we have, one area we lose out on is binary cards that do lots or nothing and no way to tutor for the right ones. I would suggest using temple of triumph- it sounds clunky and slow but it has worked well in other lockdown decks. Also, could you manage a spellskite main deck? They really are superb at protecting lock pieces from targeted removal.
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I had spellskites in my main before but it didn't workout so well they were never the card i wanted to draw at any particular moment. I can try out the temples they just seemed really slow as i have discovered i wanted to be more of a tap-out control type deck. I have gotten wins against tron from the faith fetters hitting O-stone as well as Blood Moon locking their lands. And yes Sowing Salts has been a great help in those match ups as well
Got you. Skite is really good vs decks with few removal spells for non critter permanents and vs decks like boggles, twin where it serves to hose entirely, it is very meta dependent, for sure.
I think you may be very pleasantly surprised by temples. They work rather well for me, although I have a very different curve- but I have seen them used a lot in listings around the net. We really lack selection- no diving top/scroll rack type cards, not that the latter would help a bridge deck much! Temples get play in ad nauseam too as standard- often 4-6 of them- obviously a different type of deck where they need pieces together for insta-win.
Generally tron players should not be letting their o stone down till they can pop it vs lockdown- even if they do not suspect fetters they should expect o-ring. It is surprising how many do play it without the mana to pop it. Some run all is dust for 7, another card that if it resolves is bloody hard for us. One thing that was a problem I have seen locally- other than tron players always seem to hit t3 karn in the deciders- was that if people know what you are on they start to learn what the optimum play is, and know to hold back and how to board. They should always bring in nature's claim anyway, of course, vs any red deck or white deck.
If you get the moon down then it is a long-ish way to 8 mana to pop the stone and lay in a turn, but they could get there if ajani does not do them first......
I note you do not use rest in peace- any reason? Its obviously pretty good vs inst reanimator and dredge, amazing vs jund, junk, rock (shrinks goyfs, makes their finks die to bolt, makes scoozes into bears) great vs melira pod (knackering persist combos, witness, voice, revilark etc.), more than playable vs tron (stops the artifact popping graveyard/and 3-4 wurmcoil triggers), great vs living end (grafdigger's does not stop LE, although 3 sphere normally will:)). Not saying drop the grafdigger's - just that it is unusual to see decks in white not running rip.
You also have a lot of twin hate in the side (much nicely over lapping with other deck hate)- has the match been that bad for you?
Another overlapping card you could use for twin,dredge, insta reanimator and tokens is ghostly prison.
Please let us know how your results go over time.
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ill be playing my r/w list, as seen in the OP, this saturday at a PTQ and ive been having trouble against BG Rock variants. Any thoughts as to the best cards in the matchup?
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I dont have RIP due to local meta not having reanimator or Jund, a little bit of BG and one Living End. So I never really worry about it. I have a lot of Pod in my meta along with Twin, Hence the amount of hate for both of those decks. But I plan on trying out the Temples and i will look into trying RIP and see how it works out.
Mirran Crusader Seems like Assemble the Legion + Leyline to prevent them stripping it + hope they aren't sitting on Golgari Charm. But it would be a meta call if it is worth shifting your list for that.
That is currently my thinking, that with the Temples it will be awkward with Bolts and Paths, But I dont think that the Temple is a Turn one play like it is in standard, I feel it is more of a turn 3-4 play so you can set your draw a little easier.
That is currently my thinking, that with the Temples it will be awkward with Bolts and Paths, But I dont think that the Temple is a Turn one play like it is in standard, I feel it is more of a turn 3-4 play so you can set your draw a little easier.
It really depends on your deck's curve. In my build I can't afford to have my 2nd-4th lands come in tapped, and really want to hit 5 lands asap. I usually drop Temple on T1 unless I kept a 4-land hand. You probably want your 3rd land untapped but if you have a signet on 2 you can handle it.
ill be playing my r/w list, as seen in the OP, this saturday at a PTQ and ive been having trouble against BG Rock variants. Any thoughts as to the best cards in the matchup?
I have found that O-Ring or Faiths fetters have been great in my build, Or needle after board if they are running swords and lilly
Rock - our best card against it is rest in peace- no scooze, finks dies to bolt, small goyfs
The problem is no card in hand is safe, no card on the table is, and they can blow away with pulses
My take on the board in a land kill version- and the match still ain't super - is
- diversify- remove a g prison or two- no pulse blowouts
- keep every synergistic lock piece with magus, but never more than the odd one or two of things- war's toll is pretty good in the matchup, but only one copy
- keep 3-4 magus
- board in minimum 3 rip, pref 4
- board in leylines- no lilly ultimate, no early discard
- board in copy no 2 of cloister
assembles are the way to go on win cons- you need to bait removal- but that match could use another - eg elspeth- from the board.
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I have been liking Blood Moon in the main, as an "oops I win" card that as you said is rarely totally useless. Needing double white early, I only run 2 since I don't want it rotting in my hand while I wait for another plains. I would be hesitant to run Magus of the Moon in the main. In a creature-light deck it just turns on whatever random creature removal your opponent has. If you want extra Blood Moon effects for game 2/3 I could see bringing a couple MotM in from the board after your opponent has boarded out all their removal. You could be mean and run Burning Earth to make them take damage from their non-basic mountains.
Please report how Temples work in the 4 bolt/4 path list. Seems like it could leaf to awkward draws in theory but in practice could be ok.
I don't have a single 1CMC card in my 75 and I do not play temples, with good reason though. I don't think people should play temples just because it's a land with scy, there needs to be some other synergy. Maybe a way to fetch it into play, or a way to blink it. The way I look at it, a tapped land on turn 2 means you have 1 mana turn 2, or 2 mana turn 3, etc, etc. And I'm not going to put a card in my deck I plan on NOT getting in my opening hand. Reminds me of the awful card Serum Powder (for people that make a deck planning on having a bad opening hand...)
There any number of different evolutionary directions where Waste Not can go. Would it be O.K. if we take it out of the wrapper, and play with it for a little while? If and when it falls apart, we collectively promise that you can say, "I told you so".
Has anyone done any testing with magus of the moon and bloodmoon mainboard in a boros bridge shell? Something like:
4x magus of the moon
3x blood moon
3x lightning helix
4x lightning bolt
3x pentad prism
3x ensnaring bridge
3x assemble the legion
2x ajani vengeant
2x elspeth, knight errant
2x pyroclasm
4x wrath of god
4x ghostly prison
I've been testing mainboard bloodmoon and it's stolen a lot of games. Even against mono coloured decks, in game one it shuts off any manlands/effect lands. Of course we'd board these out game 2.
Also, does magus of the tabernacle have a place in the bridge based strategies? Or would he be only used in the landkill/tax strategy?
I've been playing 4 Bridge and 4 Bloodmoon since RW Lockdown before this thread was here. I posted my list a couple pages back.
Bridge doesn't care about creatures, magus kills creatures, doesn't seen good together in my opinion.
There any number of different evolutionary directions where Waste Not can go. Would it be O.K. if we take it out of the wrapper, and play with it for a little while? If and when it falls apart, we collectively promise that you can say, "I told you so".
Spellskite is always good vs rock as long as you have other good stuff- there is no magic bullet for rock, though, you just have to beat them by playing lots of good stuff that stops their good stuff. rip, leylines, bridges, b moon etc. skites help protect key permanents. It also hoses infect, boggles and twin to a large extent.
Temples are good, though, in the right deck- they work best in decks that have combos they want to see. Ad nauseam always plays them for that reason. In RW lockdown terms they are best in decks trying to set up two card combos- twin style or those looking for boom//bust flagstone-citadel t2. The mana disadvantage the turn they come in has very rarely been relevant for me.
I was thinking about making my own post, but this list is pretty close to what I’ve been running for a month or so now, the difference being I run an agro game plan after a soft lock. There’s nothing wrong with the lockdown list, I just want to do more. This deck has stolen more games than I can count. I have had scoop after scoop. Mainboard Spellskite is rarely expected. Luminarch Ascension puts serious pressure on the game, as does Ajani Vengeant. Chandra, Pyromaster gives me the card advantage my list needs. Stormbreath Dragon used to be Entreat the Angels, but Entreat wasn’t always great.
Can't really see the resemblence between this and painter, bar the blood moon.....more like a parfait with blood moon (which is actually on the parfait thread in the last week, by coincidence), or a quin list that also run painter and lots of other combos. Anyway, that is irrelevant.
On the deck list- blood moon will work against a percentage of decks in the field, leyline ditto- and both will be awful against others. I am not saying either belongs in the board-it is all meta dependent- but it is worth baring in mind that hatebear lists, and to a large extent rock, storm, burn and twin ignore blood moon, whilst a resolved moon can steal game one vs scapeshift, usa, rg tron, pod and jund, although the latter two still have plenty of outs. Leyline is great vs rock, scapeshift, tokens and jund, but useless vs hatebear, twin (bar probe effects) lists. I would be worried having both such binary cards in the main at 7 copies between them.
Nodes is very, very slow,- I love it, but am suspicious of it in a d deck like this. Your bridge package supports walkers- I have no bridge and have found walkers to be poor when relying on prison.
Not sure on SSG in this type of list- you have no card advantage anywhere, and whilst bridge do indeed shut decks down, your win cons are much longer than in say, 8 rack, so they will get opportunities to come back. Pod and its ilk are bloody resilient- as is jund/junk. Hatebears can control the board well too. I would consider at least one bottled cloister, which works wonders with bridge, to get CA if the game goes long, and a couple more flexi cards- orings, sceptres of dominance, whatever- just cards that give more main flexability- hell even a couple more planeswalkers- more ajnis, elspeths etc. I like the double halo, they are great and the sort of card I am talking about.
On affinity- its one of the best g1 decks out there. Just make sure you have a great game 2. Aura of silence, stony silence, shatterstorm, wrath even- if you want to beat this match you can- if you find too many slots in the board are being swallowed up then try more sweepers like wrath and also up the prison count in the main to 4.
My version wins a lot of affinity g1 matches by virtue of tying their resources up- prisons, magus of the tabernacles, cheap t2/3 landkill, halos and late game mystifying mazes, with aura of silence a star game 2- it stops the "all in" approach with ravager modular counters. Unusually I have beaten them 2-0 too, sometimes. It also slows them to a crawl when followed by magus or ghostly. They can beat bridge with 0 cc men and ravager or plating switch mid combat- so again look at cards to deal with that.
Noting that plating will hurt you, I would definitely get a couple o rings main.
One worry I have is this- there is a lot of anti boggles hate out there- skites are expensive, and are best of course0, but enchantment sweepers (eg the planeshifted reverent silence or indeed back to nature) are fifteen cents/pence and often end up in people's boards.
Yes, a couple of people on the old thread tried it- I have done. Was not impressed but I did not use it long enough to tell. We need to do stuff t2 for sure- I use signets, bolts, helix and boom//bust which needs one of 6 lands to combo. Sometimes this is not enough- but the main issue I had was I was not extoring often enough. The tapped thing never beats twin anyway against decent players- it is a shame they could not have made it so that it could stop creatures being made after end of turn effects have gone on the stack.............
Any Feedback would be greatly appreciated
2 Boros Signet
2 Ensnaring Bridge
Enchantment
3 Blood Moon
2 Faith's Fetters
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Oblivion Ring
Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
Planeswalkers
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Gideon Jura
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Terminus
3 Wrath of God
Land
4 Arid Mesa
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Marsh Flats
3 Mountain
9 Plains
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Torpor Orb
1 Trinisphere
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Stony Silence
2 Celestial Purge
1 Combust
2 Wear // Tear
2 Sowing Salt
I would expect you to have strong twin, 8 rack and perhaps pod matches- but I am not certain how you beat RG tron- the nemesis of bridge builds with little landkill is normally tron and usa control. Like your board though-lots of overlap vs top stratgies- that may explain some tron wins with the sowing salts. What we all want is decent tutoring for our enchantments- irrespective of what type of lockdown we have, one area we lose out on is binary cards that do lots or nothing and no way to tutor for the right ones. I would suggest using temple of triumph- it sounds clunky and slow but it has worked well in other lockdown decks. Also, could you manage a spellskite main deck? They really are superb at protecting lock pieces from targeted removal.
I think you may be very pleasantly surprised by temples. They work rather well for me, although I have a very different curve- but I have seen them used a lot in listings around the net. We really lack selection- no diving top/scroll rack type cards, not that the latter would help a bridge deck much! Temples get play in ad nauseam too as standard- often 4-6 of them- obviously a different type of deck where they need pieces together for insta-win.
Generally tron players should not be letting their o stone down till they can pop it vs lockdown- even if they do not suspect fetters they should expect o-ring. It is surprising how many do play it without the mana to pop it. Some run all is dust for 7, another card that if it resolves is bloody hard for us. One thing that was a problem I have seen locally- other than tron players always seem to hit t3 karn in the deciders- was that if people know what you are on they start to learn what the optimum play is, and know to hold back and how to board. They should always bring in nature's claim anyway, of course, vs any red deck or white deck.
If you get the moon down then it is a long-ish way to 8 mana to pop the stone and lay in a turn, but they could get there if ajani does not do them first......
I note you do not use rest in peace- any reason? Its obviously pretty good vs inst reanimator and dredge, amazing vs jund, junk, rock (shrinks goyfs, makes their finks die to bolt, makes scoozes into bears) great vs melira pod (knackering persist combos, witness, voice, revilark etc.), more than playable vs tron (stops the artifact popping graveyard/and 3-4 wurmcoil triggers), great vs living end (grafdigger's does not stop LE, although 3 sphere normally will:)). Not saying drop the grafdigger's - just that it is unusual to see decks in white not running rip.
You also have a lot of twin hate in the side (much nicely over lapping with other deck hate)- has the match been that bad for you?
Another overlapping card you could use for twin,dredge, insta reanimator and tokens is ghostly prison.
Please let us know how your results go over time.
My decks
Top 4 (4th) SCG IQ 11/4/12
Thank you for the suggestions.
Mirran Crusader Seems like Assemble the Legion + Leyline to prevent them stripping it + hope they aren't sitting on Golgari Charm. But it would be a meta call if it is worth shifting your list for that.
It really depends on your deck's curve. In my build I can't afford to have my 2nd-4th lands come in tapped, and really want to hit 5 lands asap. I usually drop Temple on T1 unless I kept a 4-land hand. You probably want your 3rd land untapped but if you have a signet on 2 you can handle it.
I have found that O-Ring or Faiths fetters have been great in my build, Or needle after board if they are running swords and lilly
The problem is no card in hand is safe, no card on the table is, and they can blow away with pulses
My take on the board in a land kill version- and the match still ain't super - is
- diversify- remove a g prison or two- no pulse blowouts
- keep every synergistic lock piece with magus, but never more than the odd one or two of things- war's toll is pretty good in the matchup, but only one copy
- keep 3-4 magus
- board in minimum 3 rip, pref 4
- board in leylines- no lilly ultimate, no early discard
- board in copy no 2 of cloister
assembles are the way to go on win cons- you need to bait removal- but that match could use another - eg elspeth- from the board.
I don't have a single 1CMC card in my 75 and I do not play temples, with good reason though. I don't think people should play temples just because it's a land with scy, there needs to be some other synergy. Maybe a way to fetch it into play, or a way to blink it. The way I look at it, a tapped land on turn 2 means you have 1 mana turn 2, or 2 mana turn 3, etc, etc. And I'm not going to put a card in my deck I plan on NOT getting in my opening hand. Reminds me of the awful card Serum Powder (for people that make a deck planning on having a bad opening hand...)
Waste Not http://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/24857 It's now below my predicted $3 / $10 foil.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Evelyn Beatrice Hall
If I've offended you; don't take things so personal, grow up or you were in the wrong and I called you on your BS.
DECKS
Modern
BURGrixis TwinBUR
BRGJundBRG
WBTokensWB
URMerfolkUR
BDiscardB
WRControlWR
WBGMelira PodWBG
WGAura HexproofWG
URStormUR
WUBRGTribal ZooWUBRG
Affinity
WBRSquee's PoxWBR
WUGEnduring IdealWUG
WUErayo's QuestWU
UBRVile WizardsUBR
UGPolymorphUG
Legacy
BReanimatorB
GRCharbelcherGR
WUBRGRector Omni-ShowWUBRG
UDredgeU
BRGJundBRG
I've been playing 4 Bridge and 4 Bloodmoon since RW Lockdown before this thread was here. I posted my list a couple pages back.
Bridge doesn't care about creatures, magus kills creatures, doesn't seen good together in my opinion.
Vs Rock, try Spellskite, it's done me wonders.
Waste Not http://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/24857 It's now below my predicted $3 / $10 foil.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Evelyn Beatrice Hall
If I've offended you; don't take things so personal, grow up or you were in the wrong and I called you on your BS.
DECKS
Modern
BURGrixis TwinBUR
BRGJundBRG
WBTokensWB
URMerfolkUR
BDiscardB
WRControlWR
WBGMelira PodWBG
WGAura HexproofWG
URStormUR
WUBRGTribal ZooWUBRG
Affinity
WBRSquee's PoxWBR
WUGEnduring IdealWUG
WUErayo's QuestWU
UBRVile WizardsUBR
UGPolymorphUG
Legacy
BReanimatorB
GRCharbelcherGR
WUBRGRector Omni-ShowWUBRG
UDredgeU
BRGJundBRG
Temples are good, though, in the right deck- they work best in decks that have combos they want to see. Ad nauseam always plays them for that reason. In RW lockdown terms they are best in decks trying to set up two card combos- twin style or those looking for boom//bust flagstone-citadel t2. The mana disadvantage the turn they come in has very rarely been relevant for me.
4 Mountain
8 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Clifftop Retreat
4 Arid Mesa
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Wall of Omens
3 Magus of the Moat
3 Spellskite
3 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Blood Moon
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Luminarch Ascension
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Ajani Vengeant
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Sideboard
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Torpor Orb
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Oblivion Ring
Thoughts?