What's your thoughts on this deck?
To me it's a pretty standard list although i'm stil unsure to play Elspeth only in the SB, i would rather play 2 Chandra and 1 Elspeth main.
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
According to a Level 2 Judge she did. When I asked
6/15/2010 Linvala's ability affects only creatures on the battlefield. Activated abilities that work in other zones (such as cycling or unearth) can still be activated.
Pretty Standard is a fair way to describe it, but there is no slight in that.
I am a big Boil fan, unlike Todd S, nice to see it get action. CTD is there too, a nod towards increased Tron, but I still would not fancy the list v Tron.
On the discussion about Suppression Field above- Lightning Storm's discard in Ad Nauseam is also hit by it, as is Inkmoth Nexus in infect.
The actual list is huge.
If death-rite were legal its "mana ability" would also be hit by it because its mana producing ability is not a "mana ability" as defined by the rules because it targets a card. Strange but true.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
According to a Level 2 Judge she did. When I asked
Ouch. I think the card would need to say creature cards lose their abilities, not just creatures for that to be the case. Even then it would be clarified with reminder text exlaining that it affects cards in hand, graveyard, library etc. When it just says critters do X, it means critters on the battlefield, not in the bin or hand or anywhere else.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I think your list will be top heavy looking at it prima facie.
I can't think of a list in the format that could support 3 Outpost siege and 3 Chandra. I mean it is fine if you are trying to beat midrange exclusively, but for a wider meta it is too much- those cards don't really control the board, they timewalk yourself to provide card advantage if you are casting them t4/5. You should also normally find that Chalice and Moon are 4 ofs in most lists. I run 3 Chalice in landkill, but that uses Suppression Field x4, which is probably a better drop in that deck than Chalice, but anything running along the lines of chalice/moon should really be aiming at 4 ofs.
I would also really question just 2 Temples, they are very strong in the deck and with all those 4 drops you should be maximising those effects, you want to see t2 Moon or Chalice as often as possible. With your critter suite I would consider an infinite win combo with Kiki.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
What's your thoughts on this deck?
To me it's a pretty standard list although i'm stil unsure to play Elspeth only in the SB, i would rather play 2 Chandra and 1 Elspeth main.
What's your thoughts on this deck?
To me it's a pretty standard list although i'm stil unsure to play Elspeth only in the SB, i would rather play 2 Chandra and 1 Elspeth main.
- L
I am running the deck this weekend at the SCG in Dallas/Ft Worth. I have made the switch to Elpseth in the main, I like it. Also, I have replaced one of the Lightning Helix in the main with a Journey to Nowhere, which should help out in your expected matchups. Lastly, I have added a 2nd copy of Crumble to Dust, replacing the Boil. I do like Boil, but maybe not for this weekend.
FNM Report - 3-1 with that list above (I did add Crumble to Dust but never got to cast it).
R1: Eldrazi Tron
2-0
Too fast to lock him out with blood moon. The time Blood moon bought me, got me to the point of landing 2+ Planeswalkers. Ult'ed Nahiri both games.
R2: Cheeri0s
2-0
G1 he got mana screwed, and then I tossed a chalice on 1 (because I couldnt figure out what he was on. He dropped maybe 2 lands the whole game and fizzled.
G2 he tried to go off; but fizzed with a storm count of about 10. I managed to Wrath into Chalice on 0 and it was game over.
R3: Dredge
1-2
This was close. G1 he was way way way too fast.
G2 I boarded out Blood Moons, and landed a T1 Rest in Peace. That was an easy win.
G3 was a ton of back and forth between wraths and recursion. I couldnt find an Anger or RIP and that's that.
R4: Jund
2-0
He was new to jund, and that's my cornerstone deck, so I know a ton about how to lock it out.
G1 was just ugly. Wraths are ugly for a deck trying to go 1-for-1.
G2 I had an opening hand with a Leyline of Sanctity. Followed that into a Blood Moon, and then a Chalice on 2. He had zero answers after that.
So, total record of 3-1, and was definitely a good meta deck (as I expected it to be). I may bring this one back out because I do think its positioned pretty darn well right now.
Question:
How's the affinity matchup? Havent had a chance to try that out yet.
Hey all - does anyone have a Flagstones of Trokair list with Goblin Dark-Dwelllers and Boom/Bust? I just ordered my 4th Blood Moon and want to play something that smashes Tron and Scapeshift, which dominate the meta at one store i go to. I'm thinking MD Angernof the Gods will shore up aggro and Burn and help with Dredge. I don't think I want to play Chalice in the main right now. I know that's blasphemy but trying to think outside the box.
Drmarkb - do you have one? You mentioned your landkill deck - does it have Aven Mindcensor to make Path and GQ and Suppression Field even better?
Hey all - does anyone have a Flagstones of Trokair list with Goblin Dark-Dwelllers and Boom/Bust? I just ordered my 4th Blood Moon and want to play something that smashes Tron and Scapeshift, which dominate the meta at one store i go to. I'm thinking MD Angernof the Gods will shore up aggro and Burn and help with Dredge. I don't think I want to play Chalice in the main right now. I know that's blasphemy but trying to think outside the box.
Drmarkb - do you have one? You mentioned your landkill deck - does it have Aven Mindcensor to make Path and GQ and Suppression Field even better?
There is a list in the primer I used extensively- it is a S field build-, and a few pages back there is a list from another landkill player, broken prophet (Feb 6th) that is v. similar and arrived at independently. I have only tweaked my list a little, I am now at 3 chalice an 4 s field rather than 2 and 4.
Other landkill lists are also in the primer. And yeah Aven Mindcensor is really good with S F in the deck. I also use crucible and a GQs, I can pay 2 later on to use GQ, and if SF is not down I can always GQ sac when using the smaller part of boom bust.
Hey guys. Just got into this deck and looking to go landkill route. Haven't had time to dig through the pages yet, plan to, but is there a current land kill deck that is 'stock' or something most agree on to give me a good starting point?
Tuning my list to what I anticipate:
- Affinity (x2 players)
- Death's Shadow Jund (someone borrowing my build), 1x regular Jund
- Burn
- Titanshift
- Cheeri0s
- Dredge
- Tron sometimes
The main thing I'm considering is moving the leylines mainboard in advance. In the majority of these matchups (granted not tron/affinity as much) these are relevant on T0. I also think I need to keep the 3x Angers mainboard.
Hey guys. Just got into this deck and looking to go landkill route. Haven't had time to dig through the pages yet, plan to, but is there a current land kill deck that is 'stock' or something most agree on to give me a good starting point?
Thanks
Not exactly. Relatively few landkill lists exist compared to the other versions. If you are planning on running Magus, Ghostly Prison etc then the core parts of the list are pretty consistent.
4 molten, 4 stone, 4 boom//bust is the basic landkill
4 Flagstones obviously + 2-3 G-Quarter normally
4 temple in the manabase
3-4 Chalice
3-4 S field (which stops you running fetches)
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Magus
Normally Darkdwellers too so that you can abuse the Boom//Bust ruling.
That is the core, the rest is to taste.
There are other versions though that eschew the tax/magus aspect, and are more varied, a lot run planeswalkers and form hybrids with the Bridge and Nahiri Planeswalkers builds, especially the former. The big problem is finding these lists, a lot of sites list them as rogue etc.
The primer should give you the basic gist of the build.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Tuning my list to what I anticipate:
- Affinity (x2 players)
- Death's Shadow Jund (someone borrowing my build), 1x regular Jund
- Burn
- Titanshift
- Cheeri0s
- Dredge
- Tron sometimes
The main thing I'm considering is moving the leylines mainboard in advance. In the majority of these matchups (granted not tron/affinity as much) these are relevant on T0. I also think I need to keep the 3x Angers mainboard.
Wont have a chance to do any appreciable testing before Friday.
Leyline is awful vs tron, but great vs a lot of the format.
Maindecking it is decent in the Bridge builds, not so sure about Nahiri lists that don't run Bridge.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
I'm trying to understand how the landfill deck wins the game... a handful of Magus and GDD doesn't seem like enough but clearly you've been successful. Will you talk a bit about how the game should play out?
Also, if you're destroying lands enough, do you not need Blood Moon?
Last, without fetchlands, how often do you end up Booming your own land? Is it ok to do that?
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1 Ajani Vengeant
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Gideon Jura
Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Spells
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Wrath of God
1 Blessed Alliance
4 Lightning Helix
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Banishing Light
4 Blood Moon
4 Arid Mesa
2 Gemstone Caverns
4 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
8 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Anger of the Gods
3 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
1 Boil
1 Crumble to Dust
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
What's your thoughts on this deck?
To me it's a pretty standard list although i'm stil unsure to play Elspeth only in the SB, i would rather play 2 Chandra and 1 Elspeth main.
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
6/15/2010 Linvala's ability affects only creatures on the battlefield. Activated abilities that work in other zones (such as cycling or unearth) can still be activated.
RG Titan Scapeshift GR
UBWAd Nauseam WBU
CEldrazi TronC
I am a big Boil fan, unlike Todd S, nice to see it get action. CTD is there too, a nod towards increased Tron, but I still would not fancy the list v Tron.
On the discussion about Suppression Field above- Lightning Storm's discard in Ad Nauseam is also hit by it, as is Inkmoth Nexus in infect.
The actual list is huge.
If death-rite were legal its "mana ability" would also be hit by it because its mana producing ability is not a "mana ability" as defined by the rules because it targets a card. Strange but true.
Ouch. I think the card would need to say creature cards lose their abilities, not just creatures for that to be the case. Even then it would be clarified with reminder text exlaining that it affects cards in hand, graveyard, library etc. When it just says critters do X, it means critters on the battlefield, not in the bin or hand or anywhere else.
It certainly uses some elements of the new Saheeli Rai Splinter Twin combo, but, at its heart, it is a R/W control deck.
Here is the list:
4 Felidar Guardian
3 Restoration Angel
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Wall of Omens
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
Instant
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Lightning Helix
3 Magma Jet
Enchantments
3 Blood Moon
3 Outpost Siege
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
4 Arid Mesa
2 Temple of Triumph
3 Inspiring Vantage
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Gemstone Caverns
4 Mountain
4 Plains
2 Celestial Purge
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Rest in Peace
2 Stasis Snare
3 Stony Silence
Any thoughts?
I can't think of a list in the format that could support 3 Outpost siege and 3 Chandra. I mean it is fine if you are trying to beat midrange exclusively, but for a wider meta it is too much- those cards don't really control the board, they timewalk yourself to provide card advantage if you are casting them t4/5. You should also normally find that Chalice and Moon are 4 ofs in most lists. I run 3 Chalice in landkill, but that uses Suppression Field x4, which is probably a better drop in that deck than Chalice, but anything running along the lines of chalice/moon should really be aiming at 4 ofs.
I would also really question just 2 Temples, they are very strong in the deck and with all those 4 drops you should be maximising those effects, you want to see t2 Moon or Chalice as often as possible. With your critter suite I would consider an infinite win combo with Kiki.
I'm mostly unfamiliar with TitanShift. How's this matchup, and any adjustments I should make?
I'm using the GP Brisbane deck as my framework, but happy to adjust:
I am running the deck this weekend at the SCG in Dallas/Ft Worth. I have made the switch to Elpseth in the main, I like it. Also, I have replaced one of the Lightning Helix in the main with a Journey to Nowhere, which should help out in your expected matchups. Lastly, I have added a 2nd copy of Crumble to Dust, replacing the Boil. I do like Boil, but maybe not for this weekend.
What did you cut for Elspeth? I'm not sure how I feel about cutting a Helix out; but I do like the addition of the Journey.
Cutting boil makes sense; I agree with that right now. Good call.
R1: Eldrazi Tron
2-0
Too fast to lock him out with blood moon. The time Blood moon bought me, got me to the point of landing 2+ Planeswalkers. Ult'ed Nahiri both games.
R2: Cheeri0s
2-0
G1 he got mana screwed, and then I tossed a chalice on 1 (because I couldnt figure out what he was on. He dropped maybe 2 lands the whole game and fizzled.
G2 he tried to go off; but fizzed with a storm count of about 10. I managed to Wrath into Chalice on 0 and it was game over.
R3: Dredge
1-2
This was close. G1 he was way way way too fast.
G2 I boarded out Blood Moons, and landed a T1 Rest in Peace. That was an easy win.
G3 was a ton of back and forth between wraths and recursion. I couldnt find an Anger or RIP and that's that.
R4: Jund
2-0
He was new to jund, and that's my cornerstone deck, so I know a ton about how to lock it out.
G1 was just ugly. Wraths are ugly for a deck trying to go 1-for-1.
G2 I had an opening hand with a Leyline of Sanctity. Followed that into a Blood Moon, and then a Chalice on 2. He had zero answers after that.
So, total record of 3-1, and was definitely a good meta deck (as I expected it to be). I may bring this one back out because I do think its positioned pretty darn well right now.
Question:
How's the affinity matchup? Havent had a chance to try that out yet.
Drmarkb - do you have one? You mentioned your landkill deck - does it have Aven Mindcensor to make Path and GQ and Suppression Field even better?
There is a list in the primer I used extensively- it is a S field build-, and a few pages back there is a list from another landkill player, broken prophet (Feb 6th) that is v. similar and arrived at independently. I have only tweaked my list a little, I am now at 3 chalice an 4 s field rather than 2 and 4.
Other landkill lists are also in the primer. And yeah Aven Mindcensor is really good with S F in the deck. I also use crucible and a GQs, I can pay 2 later on to use GQ, and if SF is not down I can always GQ sac when using the smaller part of boom bust.
Thanks
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Tuning my list to what I anticipate:
- Affinity (x2 players)
- Death's Shadow Jund (someone borrowing my build), 1x regular Jund
- Burn
- Titanshift
- Cheeri0s
- Dredge
- Tron sometimes
The main thing I'm considering is moving the leylines mainboard in advance. In the majority of these matchups (granted not tron/affinity as much) these are relevant on T0. I also think I need to keep the 3x Angers mainboard.
Any other thoughts?
https://deckbox.org/sets/1653378 is the list I'm looking at right now. But I'm kinda waivering on it.
Wont have a chance to do any appreciable testing before Friday.
Not exactly. Relatively few landkill lists exist compared to the other versions. If you are planning on running Magus, Ghostly Prison etc then the core parts of the list are pretty consistent.
4 molten, 4 stone, 4 boom//bust is the basic landkill
4 Flagstones obviously + 2-3 G-Quarter normally
4 temple in the manabase
3-4 Chalice
3-4 S field (which stops you running fetches)
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Magus
Normally Darkdwellers too so that you can abuse the Boom//Bust ruling.
That is the core, the rest is to taste.
There are other versions though that eschew the tax/magus aspect, and are more varied, a lot run planeswalkers and form hybrids with the Bridge and Nahiri Planeswalkers builds, especially the former. The big problem is finding these lists, a lot of sites list them as rogue etc.
The primer should give you the basic gist of the build.
Leyline is awful vs tron, but great vs a lot of the format.
Maindecking it is decent in the Bridge builds, not so sure about Nahiri lists that don't run Bridge.
I'm trying to understand how the landfill deck wins the game... a handful of Magus and GDD doesn't seem like enough but clearly you've been successful. Will you talk a bit about how the game should play out?
Also, if you're destroying lands enough, do you not need Blood Moon?
Last, without fetchlands, how often do you end up Booming your own land? Is it ok to do that?