In that scenario i would just go for the Summer Bloom right away. You have 20 some more lands in the deck and the odds of drawing one are pretty decent. That being said, i still think Ancient Stirrings is better in that slot. I can't stress enough how nice is it to be able to dig 5 deeps for Amulet or a Bounce land. Stirrings has set up the t2 for me so many times now, i can't imagine not playing with it.
I'm actually running 2 Slaughter Pact in my board right now. it's really really good in the Twin match, but also it stops Aven Mindcensor, and Leonin Arbiter which can be very problematic.
I do like Pyroclasm too, and run 1 in my board. I also found Firespout to be just a little too slow most of the time, and i actually haven't been playing against any Zoo lately so the 3 damage doesn't seem as crucial as being able to play it a turn earlier- and for less mana.
Can someone explain to me why they are running Mana Confluence/City of Brass? You really don't need to at all. With Tendo Ice Bridge, and Gemstone Mine, with the bounce lands, you'll always have free colored mana. Golgari Rot Farm is another one i don't understand. Even with 3 Slaughter Pact in my deck after siding i never have a problem making black mana. I don't understand why people play that land at all.
For reference here's what my manabase looks like, which feels extremely tight, versatile, and consistent.
For a while i wasn't running an Engineered Explosives in the board, but after experiencing multiple games where i really wanted to be able to tutor up a sweeper i put one in. It really is good in a bunch of match-ups
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
I feel like you're backwards with your land assessment. With 9 bouncelands you can always find what you need, but with anymore than that i would frequently draw hands with no non-bounce land, which is an auto-mull. I don't think i have ever been in a situation where Goglari+Tolaria was a necessity. I guess it's just preference, but i see no real strategic advantage to running Rot Farm or Rainbow Painlands.
modern tonight was 5 rounds and did a 4-1 with the deck.
I wondering if the aggro meta is such that engineered explosives might be enough to handle the board sweeper slot as oppose to running pyroclasm? its obviously utility for other problems but can wipe out a creature swarm of goblins, tokens and merfolk, as well as hinder twin combo. against pod it can wipe out all of the 1cc mana accelerators, and set at 2 keep melira under threat. but unlike pyroclasm every game its tutorable.
I auto lost to infect round 2. i only had swansong to deal with the spells. brought in EE against them as well. wasn't sure how to deal with the inkmoth nexus, i didn't board any ghost quarter in my 75. I'm thinking EE can do the job for the creatures. coping inkmoth with vesuva might be viable? not sure...
just as an after thought maybe summoner's pact for a 1 of melira, sylvok outcast in the sideboard..... more I think about it its a good idea if i can expect more infect, but doesn't seem like a wise use of sideboard space for the broader meta game.
faced tron again. raced them to death and one game hivemind comboed them to death. the advantage i had was this match up was blue tron so double green from summoner's pact was highly unpayable for them as compared to your usual red green tron.
faced griselbrand reanimator and went off turn 4 each game. bojuka bog might be a little slow for this match up, but i brought in swansong to stop them from getting off either spell for there fatties. both games ended up with pact of negation in hand and enough mana to pay for it.
rock nearly wrecked me. game 1 double amulets and luck/combo killed them with titan. games 2 and 3 was an assault by fulminator mages couldn't get to 6 mana on game 2, game 3 i top decked a summer bloom after having one discarded away and got my land count up inthe face of 3 fulminators. rocked a titan and got out of control with lands tokens and what not, top decked a wurmcoil engine to seal the deal.
this is only the second time i've come across land destruction. against fulminator mage suddenly my previous sideboards miss placed trickbind doesn't look so bad. tectonic edge is way more common it seems, but i feel i can play around it only going out into 4 and more lands when i've going for the titan or hivemind. either senario i seem to lose the land that powers titan into a monster if they didn't hit lands to stop me from getting to 6 mana in the first place.
not trying to reinvent the wheel or anything but i was wondering if using darksteel citadel in the deck to power reshape might be viable? mostly just to fetch amulet of vigor, but later game i could see it viable fetching game winning artifacts such as wurmcoil engine after amulet might not be necessary anymore?
i've seen some lists running trinket mage sideboard or main, 3cc for a 2/2 body then you have to cast what you fetched, 3cc for reshape into amulet puts it right into the battlefield.
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Guys - hoping for some help...
Example opening hand. Assume on the play, game 1 and don't know the opponent's deck...
1 Bounceland, 1 Gemstone, 1 Tendo Ice Bridge, 1 Khalni Garden, 1 Simian Spirit Guide, 1 Summer bloom, 1 Titan.
In this scenario, with no information, do you play your turn 1 gemstone / ssg / summer bloom? If you do, you don't actually have 6 mana available, you must topdeck another (untapped?) land. If you don't, you risk Spell Snare / Thoughtseize becoming an issue.
Pitch the SSG for Bloom on turn 1. More lands on the battlefield = more resources, meaning more mana to play spells that can draw into that last land. And like you mentioned, it goes under Spell Snare; the more you delay, the more draw steps you give them to draw into a Snare or other counterspell if they didn't already have one.
not trying to reinvent the wheel or anything but i was wondering if using darksteel citadel in the deck to power reshape might be viable? mostly just to fetch amulet of vigor, but later game i could see it viable fetching game winning artifacts such as wurmcoil engine after amulet might not be necessary anymore?
i've seen some lists running trinket mage sideboard or main, 3cc for a 2/2 body then you have to cast what you fetched, 3cc for reshape into amulet puts it right into the battlefield.
Don't do it. You'll never have enough sac fodder for it. Plus, Citadel only produces colorless and this deck has enough of those kinds of lands already.
Trinket Mage is, uh, passable if you have Explosives or Needle or some other hate to search out with it.
has anyone tried Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in the deck? i've seen this guy shut down control decks, burn, hit living end for 12, and I think he has other applications. unlike the other decks i've used him in amulet has the least amount of non creature spells to play once a creature is on the field.
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has anyone tried Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in the deck? i've seen this guy shut down control decks, burn, hit living end for 12, and I think he has other applications. unlike the other decks i've used him in amulet has the least amount of non creature spells to play once a creature is on the field.
I can see how he might be a board option. But he's not really what I call a game-winning source of pressure. I like it against Storm and Control though. Mostly I guess we'd have to pact for him, since we wouldn't want to run too many and get jammed up by the legend rule. Trying to think if there are ways that the "must attack" drawback will screw us up, but since he has Vigilance it seems like there's not a ton of downside.
if he stick he forces your opponent into a bad situation of only have 3 spell left for the whole game to cast at the most. landing him after losing a primeval titan that hit ur opponent. can seal up a game. i was thinking as a 1 of in the main.
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Where can I find a detailed explanation of how this deck works?
As a Mono U Tron player I want to know how to play *against* this deck because one of the top players in my play group pilots this deck exclusively.
exiling titan is usually a good place to start.
----------------------------------
this deck has been balls to the walls great for me.
list is running fine so theres little for me to say, but that top match up that has me bugged lately is the tempo one, if i can't land chalice of the void for 1 against them titan is isn a bad spot facing down vapor snag, path to exile and at turn 4 crpytic commands. i'm stuck on the idea of adding thrun, the last troll but he really seems slow compared to the amazingness of titan against tempo.
be enough for for fighting tempo or should i be packing a lot more than that?
against tempo while aggro from titan is a bit troubled, games 2 and 3 landing hivemind has been solid path to victory as they can't pay for summoner's pact. hence the thoughts of adding hexproof something to sure up the aggro side of the deck.
I'm not sure if its viable but is 7cc creatures something to avoid in the deck? seems possible to get there but is curving above 6 a bad move?
I was thinking something like gaea's revenge would be absolutely devestating to control?
same thought process that was going into ruric thar when i mentioned him earlier, but unlike gaea's he isn't uncounterable, haste and other good abilities.
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I have gotten so many wins off Hive Mind in the deck that i'm not sure how i would feel about taking it out. I do think it would be worth testing though, because there have been a handful of times i've have had Hive Mind just sitting in my hand doing nothing for turns. I don't like the idea of Ruric main at all, but i'm gonna try 2 Wurmcoil Engine, then maybe 1 more Cavern of Souls?
i would't drop hive mind i've won many games because my opponent couldn't make double green or double blue, but compared to legacy hive mind this hive mind certainly is firing on half its potential power. if the deck if your balzy enough to do it, the white pact might be useful as well in the deck for saving yourself for the following turn as well as giving hive mind more pacts to work with. in general though pacts are just risky cards to play with which is why i like negation and summoner's as is, without adding extra.
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i wouldn't want to blow up my own amulet for life gain, but having that option has me wondering if claim could do better than seal. leaving 1 green open hasn't usually been an issue for me in most games. I don't see either one having and advantage over the threat of turn 3 blood moon. sometimes i'm just sitting on 1 land while trying to get to a summers bloom, usually a land that can make green.
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The point is you can play Seal before they play Blood Moon. Having green available after Blood Moon probably isn't happening unless you somehow already have your 1 forest.
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I was actually wondering, is the seal of Primordium there just to be able to answer blood moon or is there something else that I'm forgetting that it could be in there for?
problem is the deck has a weak spot for spell snare, blue moon-sih deck can get huge advantage with it against seal and summer bloom. just to add salt to that wound a blood moon following a spell snared blood moon answer or acceleration would be ideal.
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If Blue Moon is a thing in your area this probably isn't the deck to be playing. Seal is the best card for the job, Spell Snare or not. There's just not enough space for more basics in the maindeck.
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was the possibility of utilizing pact of the titan ever discussed in this forum or another?
some situation i could use a free 4/4.
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So i played a bunch of games with Wurmcoil Engine in the main, and just wasn't really feeling it. It's a lot of effort(and sometimes luck too) to ramp into a Wurmcoil when there are so many easier ways to ramp a wurm out. It just doesn't feel worthwhile at all. I went back to 2 Hive Mind main, and added a 2nd Pact of Negation
Has anyone tested Trinket Mage in this deck? I haven't myself but it seems interesting. I just can't tell if it would be too slow or not though.
My one buddy suggested Trade Routes, but it seems kinda meh. Any thoughts?
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I'm actually running 2 Slaughter Pact in my board right now. it's really really good in the Twin match, but also it stops Aven Mindcensor, and Leonin Arbiter which can be very problematic.
I do like Pyroclasm too, and run 1 in my board. I also found Firespout to be just a little too slow most of the time, and i actually haven't been playing against any Zoo lately so the 3 damage doesn't seem as crucial as being able to play it a turn earlier- and for less mana.
Can someone explain to me why they are running Mana Confluence/City of Brass? You really don't need to at all. With Tendo Ice Bridge, and Gemstone Mine, with the bounce lands, you'll always have free colored mana. Golgari Rot Farm is another one i don't understand. Even with 3 Slaughter Pact in my deck after siding i never have a problem making black mana. I don't understand why people play that land at all.
For reference here's what my manabase looks like, which feels extremely tight, versatile, and consistent.
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Vesuva
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Khalni Garden
3 Tolaria West
3 Gruul Turf
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Boros Garrison
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Forest
For a while i wasn't running an Engineered Explosives in the board, but after experiencing multiple games where i really wanted to be able to tutor up a sweeper i put one in. It really is good in a bunch of match-ups
I wondering if the aggro meta is such that engineered explosives might be enough to handle the board sweeper slot as oppose to running pyroclasm? its obviously utility for other problems but can wipe out a creature swarm of goblins, tokens and merfolk, as well as hinder twin combo. against pod it can wipe out all of the 1cc mana accelerators, and set at 2 keep melira under threat. but unlike pyroclasm every game its tutorable.
went with this sideboard tonight
2 swansong
3 leyline of sanctity
2 combust
2 engineered explosives
3 seal of primordium
2 wurmcoil engine
1 bojukA BOG
I auto lost to infect round 2. i only had swansong to deal with the spells. brought in EE against them as well. wasn't sure how to deal with the inkmoth nexus, i didn't board any ghost quarter in my 75. I'm thinking EE can do the job for the creatures. coping inkmoth with vesuva might be viable? not sure...
just as an after thought maybe summoner's pact for a 1 of melira, sylvok outcast in the sideboard..... more I think about it its a good idea if i can expect more infect, but doesn't seem like a wise use of sideboard space for the broader meta game.
faced tron again. raced them to death and one game hivemind comboed them to death. the advantage i had was this match up was blue tron so double green from summoner's pact was highly unpayable for them as compared to your usual red green tron.
faced griselbrand reanimator and went off turn 4 each game. bojuka bog might be a little slow for this match up, but i brought in swansong to stop them from getting off either spell for there fatties. both games ended up with pact of negation in hand and enough mana to pay for it.
rock nearly wrecked me. game 1 double amulets and luck/combo killed them with titan. games 2 and 3 was an assault by fulminator mages couldn't get to 6 mana on game 2, game 3 i top decked a summer bloom after having one discarded away and got my land count up inthe face of 3 fulminators. rocked a titan and got out of control with lands tokens and what not, top decked a wurmcoil engine to seal the deal.
this is only the second time i've come across land destruction. against fulminator mage suddenly my previous sideboards miss placed trickbind doesn't look so bad. tectonic edge is way more common it seems, but i feel i can play around it only going out into 4 and more lands when i've going for the titan or hivemind. either senario i seem to lose the land that powers titan into a monster if they didn't hit lands to stop me from getting to 6 mana in the first place.
is a crucible of worlds or life from the loam somewhere in the 75 possible?
---------------------
not trying to reinvent the wheel or anything but i was wondering if using darksteel citadel in the deck to power reshape might be viable? mostly just to fetch amulet of vigor, but later game i could see it viable fetching game winning artifacts such as wurmcoil engine after amulet might not be necessary anymore?
i've seen some lists running trinket mage sideboard or main, 3cc for a 2/2 body then you have to cast what you fetched, 3cc for reshape into amulet puts it right into the battlefield.
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Pitch the SSG for Bloom on turn 1. More lands on the battlefield = more resources, meaning more mana to play spells that can draw into that last land. And like you mentioned, it goes under Spell Snare; the more you delay, the more draw steps you give them to draw into a Snare or other counterspell if they didn't already have one.
Don't do it. You'll never have enough sac fodder for it. Plus, Citadel only produces colorless and this deck has enough of those kinds of lands already.
Trinket Mage is, uh, passable if you have Explosives or Needle or some other hate to search out with it.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
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I can see how he might be a board option. But he's not really what I call a game-winning source of pressure. I like it against Storm and Control though. Mostly I guess we'd have to pact for him, since we wouldn't want to run too many and get jammed up by the legend rule. Trying to think if there are ways that the "must attack" drawback will screw us up, but since he has Vigilance it seems like there's not a ton of downside.
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
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Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
As a Mono U Tron player I want to know how to play *against* this deck because one of the top players in my play group pilots this deck exclusively.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
exiling titan is usually a good place to start.
----------------------------------
this deck has been balls to the walls great for me.
list is running fine so theres little for me to say, but that top match up that has me bugged lately is the tempo one, if i can't land chalice of the void for 1 against them titan is isn a bad spot facing down vapor snag, path to exile and at turn 4 crpytic commands. i'm stuck on the idea of adding thrun, the last troll but he really seems slow compared to the amazingness of titan against tempo.
should a side of
1 chalice of the void
2 swan song
1 batterskull
be enough for for fighting tempo or should i be packing a lot more than that?
against tempo while aggro from titan is a bit troubled, games 2 and 3 landing hivemind has been solid path to victory as they can't pay for summoner's pact. hence the thoughts of adding hexproof something to sure up the aggro side of the deck.
I'm not sure if its viable but is 7cc creatures something to avoid in the deck? seems possible to get there but is curving above 6 a bad move?
I was thinking something like gaea's revenge would be absolutely devestating to control?
same thought process that was going into ruric thar when i mentioned him earlier, but unlike gaea's he isn't uncounterable, haste and other good abilities.
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Gonna test this on Cockatrice right now.
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i wouldn't want to blow up my own amulet for life gain, but having that option has me wondering if claim could do better than seal. leaving 1 green open hasn't usually been an issue for me in most games. I don't see either one having and advantage over the threat of turn 3 blood moon. sometimes i'm just sitting on 1 land while trying to get to a summers bloom, usually a land that can make green.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
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Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
some situation i could use a free 4/4.
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Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Has anyone tested Trinket Mage in this deck? I haven't myself but it seems interesting. I just can't tell if it would be too slow or not though.
My one buddy suggested Trade Routes, but it seems kinda meh. Any thoughts?