I feel like the number of keepable hands plummets without Stirrings in your list.
If you're missing a Karoo in your opener and you run 10 of them, a Stirrings gives you a 2/3 chance of hitting one and another 20% chance of drawing one on your next draw step (since you just dug so deep). That amounts to a roughly 3/4 chance of hitting one by your next turn.
That's all well and good, but the real value comes if you're missing an Amulet (a more likely scenario). Stirrings gives you a 1/3 chance of hitting immediately and 1/12 on your next draw, for ~40% chance of finding one by your next turn.
We want to play an Amulet early; it's how we win early. If you don't have one in your opening hand, it's pretty safe to assume you won't hit one -- unless you have a Stirrings. (Serum Visions, of course, helps, but it doesn't dig as deep.)
@Dos_Rouge perhaps. It's worse at finding lands than stirrings for twice the cost, but it's also able to find creatures. Unfortunately, most lists run just 7 creatures, so the chance of hitting one is never going to be great (common scenario when you want one is you've seen 8 cards and no creatures, we only have a 45% chance, and we probably aren't valuing ssg, primetime,, and bloom-lite equally.
Of course, it can't find either of the deck's namesake cards: bloom and amulet. It's not an appealing option for me, but I'd be interested to hear how it works for others.
=========================
In my previous comment, I made a somewhat blind argument in favor of stirrings over Sleight of Hand. In truth, I hadn't played without stirrings (or with Sleight), and didn't consider it to be a particularly viable option; however, I saw @kanister's endorsement of sleight, along with the community's respect for him and decided to test sleight. It's fine. You're certainly lessening your chances of quickly comboing off without Stirrings, and for that reason I do prefer the mainstream option, but Sleight is the more consistently helpful card. I'd say Stirrings offers a higher ceiling and lower floor. In order to properly argue for one over the other, you'd have to make the case that when you cast it, on average, one is providing more utility.
It's a project for another day, but I suppose I'll break down several different scenarios with each card. If this has already been done, could someone kindly point me to that post? Thanks
what about making chains of creatures with conduit of ruin in this deck?
tron talks about its potential, I think its just as viable in this deck since we actually spam into 6 and 8 land counts commonly.
It has to be colourless, which means you need to play stuff like Wurmcoil Engine. You tend to play more value-oriented creatures, and Wurmcoil is probably the only reasonable colourless one, and I don't think it's as good as Thragtusk because the lifegain is immediate.
Im new to this thread but long time lurker. Im currently in the process of getting the money cards as i have pretty much everything else for this deck. I've been obsessed with it ever since pro tour FTF. Few questions:
1. What's the consensus on SSG/Dragonlord Dromoka/something else as the 60th card?
2. Is running a single SSG fine or should it be 2?
3. Would Sleight of hand be a good replacement for the "60th" card?
4. What do you think of my list and sideboard? Should i do a 2-2 split of Sleight and Stirrings?
5. Would glittering wish be a viable option?
Hi Kanister, thanks for mentioning the deck of Boky91, it is very interesting to see a deck without any other threat (or big creature) than primeval and hive mind, and the sideboard looks with a lots of utility lands and artifacts. Im unsure how this deck can win against surgical extraction kind of deck. And also how the guy fights against burn matchup, not having any way of lifegain.
I've never posted a deck before, if I did it wrong please help me.
Vesuva is basically any other land in your deck. Some people feel the need to have that utility.
i thought they love 2 Vesuva for Blood Moon evasion.
It only evades Blood Moon if it copies a basic, and there's no guarantee you copy a useful basic, particularly if you're playing a singleton Forest.
as a new amulet player, i like the idea of having a 2nd vesuva as a safety net in those hyer-tense clutch games for the finals of an event where silly mistakes get made after five rounds of difficult play.
i mean that's genuinely a reasonable thing to want. people play decks like burn simply to have time between rounds to eat and rest. attempting to reduce game-losses-by-simple-mistakes is definitely worth consideration.
and saying "well just don't make any mistakes" is kinda dumb. everyone makes mistakes. it'd be good if those mistakes didn't punt the game completely though.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
My $0.02 is that 2 copies of Vesuva is a luxury we can't afford. The land slots are really tight (despite that maybe not seeming to be the case, given how many we run) and other effects are more important than a second land clone.
Here's LordCommanderSnow's list formatted as a deck:
The mana base. After testing with it, I'm firming of the belief that having two basic lands is much better than having just one. Temple of Mystery fixes and will give you more than one scry; it shan't be leaving my list any time soon.
Two copies of Azusa. I'd been running 3, but drawing two of them isn't great, and you'd generally rather just draw a Bloom anyways.
Ten ways to dig. Up from the usual 7-8 (4 Serum Visions + 3/4 Stirrings/Sleight of Hand). This list should be more consistent due to these. I like the split, too.
Things I'm not so sure about:
Zero copies of Simian Spirit Guide. Before playing this deck, I was of the opinion that he didn't belong. After playing with him, I think one copy provides a lot of value a lot of the time. He's not something I really miss, but he always seemed good in my hand.
Two copies of Hive Mind. It's true you don't usually want to draw more than one, but drawing one can sometimes be the difference between winning and losing. I'm more comfortable with three copies in my list, but I'm testing out two.
Some of the sideboard slots. It seems to me that Firespout is sometimes better than Pyroclasm, and I tend to gravitate towards the former. Bojuka Bog always seems to under-perform for me, so I suppose that it must be for very specific match-ups. I'm willing to try out Hornet Queen against Affinity (I guess?) or other beatdown/midrange decks, since its role looks to be a stabilizer, but I worry that costing 7 instead of 6 is relevant.
In any case it's cool to see the list succeed, but I've found myself in a lot more mirror matches than I used to.
I don't know if there's a consensus, but here's my opinion on each:
It depends what your other 59 are, but I think we have better options than Dragonlord Dromoka.
I prefer 1 SSG to 2, and I think I like 1 more than 0.
Any deck with discard gives us some trouble, but we're still going to be okay a lot of the time unless they have draw the perfect combination of discard. Post-sideboard games are better since we have Leyline of Sanctity. Against Merfolk you're going to do fine unless they counter an important spell. Just be ready to play around Spell Pierce and it's a fine match-up.
Entirely preference. Most people run 4 Stirrings and 0 Sleight. Some run 3 Sleight and 0 Stirrings.
I don't know what glittering wish would get for us. Maybe if you expanded on what'd be included in the sideboard to be packaged with wish, that'd give me more info. The slots in the deck are pretty tight though.
LordCommanderSnow was a big inpseration to me playing this deck way back when. It's pretty wild to see him pick up the same cantrip selection I presented months ago, way back on Jan 7th, as well as the 2 Azusa, and 2 Hivemind. Back then most people wrote off running Visions, Sleight, and Stirrings in the same list, but it feels good to see him pick it after all this time. My current list is a bit different than his, but I'm still running that same cantrip package, and it still feels great. IMO it makes the deck feel so much more consistent.
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
He was playing some sort of list with Jace and no fetches apparently. Game 1 he tapped out when I had double Amulet and Titan'd him for 20. Game 2, I mulled to 6 and he looked at Summoner's Pact and Hive Mind, took Summoner's Pact. I also had Tolaria West. Turn 2 I drew into Summer Bloom, he had no counter, and I put some lands into play. The following turn, he tapped out for some reason and I played Hive Mind. He scooped knowing the Tolaria West was in hand. Really strange from him considering he used to play the deck.
Record: 1-0
Round 2 vs Merfolk
Game 1 I saw a Darkslick Shores and another Island and he scooped to turn 2 Titan. I had suspected the guy was on the Blood Artist deck since I played against him two weeks ago, but not today. My bet was he was on some sort of Grixis Deck, maybe Grixis Control or Grixis Delver. Game 2, turns out he's playing Merfolk and I obviously boarded incorrectly. I got run over fairly quickly and that was that. Game 3, I boarded correctly and had a very good Pyroclasm that killed three Merfolks. Eventually I got to double Titan and swing for a very obvious lethal.
After the match, we got to talking. He's going to GP Pittsburgh and we were discussing the matchup and the sideboard plan. Apparently his friend won some sizeable tournament recently and provided him the decklist and sideboard plan. His friend was obviously wrong about it though. He boarded out the Spreading Seas for some reason, which despite being somewhat slow at sorcery speed, only get punished if I turn 2 him. He also had to attack and let me block with Titan in game 3 because no Islands. People playing this matchup poorly bodes well for me. Apparently the Darkslick Shores was to throw people off and also avoid getting Choked out of the game.
Record: 2-0
Round 3 vs Elves
Game 1 I mulled to 5 and then just didn't have any way to interact or combo fast enough. I don't expect anything with that mulligan into a fast deck. Game 2, I played so awful it's not even funny. I just accept it was bad on my part. I perhaps could have won if I made actual good plays. I died on turn 4 in the first game and turn 3 in the second game.
Record: 2-1
Round 4 vs Twin
Game 1 I was dead to combo but my opponent didn't have it. After some sequencing I attacked with Titan while he had no mana and lethal'd him for 20 when I had double Amulet. In game 2, I was similarly dead to combo for a turn (or Blood Moon), thankfully he didn't have it. The next turn I had Nature's Claim to answer Blood Moon. I ended up with double Amulet again with Azusa in play to dodge out his counter and lethal him.
Record: 3-1
Ended up third, not that bad. I definitely pooped in round 3 vs Elves, not sure what I was thinking. It was a strange scenario and I'll be ready next time. Outside of that, I tend to never turn 2 or 3 combo in the matchups I need to, but get it in those I don't need it. Funny how my luck works like that. I do tend to roll fairly well though, so I won't overly complain.
First post here so I'll jump straight off the deep end
Played during our regular FNM, so far my results with Amulet Bloom have been slowly creeping up and I've gone from regular 1-3's to 2-2 and 2-1-1.
Round 1 vs Living End
I have alot of experience playing this deck. Game 1 I was on the draw, I had a Titan and pact in hand but no acceleration. On my first turn I drew a card, didn't play a land and discarded the titan. I played a Titan on turn 3 and he had to cascade to protect himself. This gave me looping Titan's and I quickly closed the game. Second game I went turn 3 titan with counter backup, it ended quickly. I must say that he drew only one Ghost Quarter and Fulminator Mage total during 2 games, that was kinda lucky.
1-0-0
Round 2 vs U/W/R Control
It was my first time playing this deck so the first game I was ill-prepared for it. My opponent always plays his decks tight so and pretty much managed to counter everything I did. Game 2 I had a Cavern of Souls in my starting 7 and wiped him out pretty fast on turn 2 with double amulet. We started game 3 and time was immediately called. My turn 2 Titan got countered and he didn't have a threat to put down, so we drew.
1-0-1
Round 3 vs Elves
First game was over on turn 2, he combo'd out, got Emrakul and it was over. Game 2 I recovered from a Blood Moon (I saw the Stomping Ground game 1), he recovered from a Pyroclasm. He combo'd out the turn before I could kill him. There was pretty much nothing I could do to interrupt the combo.
1-1-1
Round 4 vs Ad Nauseum
Turn 1 Lotus quickly gave away what he was playing so I adjusted asap, turn 3 double titan with a counter for his Angel's Grace killed the game. Game 2 was over just as quick when he got his combo on and I couldn't counter. Game 3 was very interesting since both our decks kinda wiffed on what they should be doing. Around turn 6 I got a Hive mind down and played a Pact of Summoning. I knew he could pay for it due to his Lotus coming of suspend or he could Angels Grace, I was merely trying to make him skip his turn and spend resources. In his upkeep he cast Angels Grace, I pointed to Hive Mind and he sighed. For some reason he still went off with the combo but ofcourse couldn't kill me since I was also under the protection from Angels Grace. I couldn't kill him on my turn but was at around 30 life and he didn't have enough lands left to kill me at instant speed.
I ended up 2-1-1 so not a losing record but alot of room for improvement. I have to read more about the Elves deck since I didn't really how to interrupt it.
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If you're missing a Karoo in your opener and you run 10 of them, a Stirrings gives you a 2/3 chance of hitting one and another 20% chance of drawing one on your next draw step (since you just dug so deep). That amounts to a roughly 3/4 chance of hitting one by your next turn.
That's all well and good, but the real value comes if you're missing an Amulet (a more likely scenario). Stirrings gives you a 1/3 chance of hitting immediately and 1/12 on your next draw, for ~40% chance of finding one by your next turn.
We want to play an Amulet early; it's how we win early. If you don't have one in your opening hand, it's pretty safe to assume you won't hit one -- unless you have a Stirrings. (Serum Visions, of course, helps, but it doesn't dig as deep.)
Of course, it can't find either of the deck's namesake cards: bloom and amulet. It's not an appealing option for me, but I'd be interested to hear how it works for others.
=========================
In my previous comment, I made a somewhat blind argument in favor of stirrings over Sleight of Hand. In truth, I hadn't played without stirrings (or with Sleight), and didn't consider it to be a particularly viable option; however, I saw @kanister's endorsement of sleight, along with the community's respect for him and decided to test sleight. It's fine. You're certainly lessening your chances of quickly comboing off without Stirrings, and for that reason I do prefer the mainstream option, but Sleight is the more consistently helpful card. I'd say Stirrings offers a higher ceiling and lower floor. In order to properly argue for one over the other, you'd have to make the case that when you cast it, on average, one is providing more utility.
It's a project for another day, but I suppose I'll break down several different scenarios with each card. If this has already been done, could someone kindly point me to that post? Thanks
tron talks about its potential, I think its just as viable in this deck since we actually spam into 6 and 8 land counts commonly.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Im new to this thread but long time lurker. Im currently in the process of getting the money cards as i have pretty much everything else for this deck. I've been obsessed with it ever since pro tour FTF. Few questions:
1. What's the consensus on SSG/Dragonlord Dromoka/something else as the 60th card?
2. Is running a single SSG fine or should it be 2?
3. Would Sleight of hand be a good replacement for the "60th" card?
4. What do you think of my list and sideboard? Should i do a 2-2 split of Sleight and Stirrings?
5. Would glittering wish be a viable option?
Thanks in advance!
1x Boros Garrison
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Forest
4x Gemstone Mine
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Golgari Rot Farm
2x Gruul Turf
1x Khalni Garden
1x Mana Confluence
1x Radiant Fountain
2x Selesnya Sanctuary
4x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Slayers' Stronghold
1x Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1x Tendo Ice Bridge
3x Tolaria West
1x Vesuva
2x Pact of Negation
1x Slaughter Pact
4x Summoner's Pact
Sorcery (12)
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Serum Visions
4x Summer Bloom
Creature (7)
2x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4x Primeval Titan
1x Simian Spirit Guide
Enchantment (3)
3x Hive Mind
Artifact (4)
4x Amulet of Vigor
1x Spellskite
1x Hornet Queen
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Nature's Claim
2x Pyroclasm
1x Seal of Primordium
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Swan Song
1x Thragtusk
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
Vesuva is basically any other land in your deck. Some people feel the need to have that utility.
i thought they love 2 Vesuva for Blood Moon evasion.
I've never posted a deck before, if I did it wrong please help me.
Boky91 4-0 MTGO
Regards.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
as a new amulet player, i like the idea of having a 2nd vesuva as a safety net in those hyer-tense clutch games for the finals of an event where silly mistakes get made after five rounds of difficult play.
i mean that's genuinely a reasonable thing to want. people play decks like burn simply to have time between rounds to eat and rest. attempting to reduce game-losses-by-simple-mistakes is definitely worth consideration.
and saying "well just don't make any mistakes" is kinda dumb. everyone makes mistakes. it'd be good if those mistakes didn't punt the game completely though.
Here's LordCommanderSnow's list formatted as a deck:
4 Simic Growth Chamber
3 Gruul Turf
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Golgari Rot Farm
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Mana Confluence
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Boros Garrison
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Khalni Garden
1 Vesuva
3 Tolaria West
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Serum Visions
3 Sleight of Hand
3 Ancient Stirrings
C-c-c-combo Pieces (23)
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Summer Bloom
2 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
4 Summoner's Pact
4 Primeval Titan
2 Hive Mind
2 Pact of Negation
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Seal of Primordium
2 Pyroclasm
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Hornet Queen
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Swan Song
Things I like about it:
In any case it's cool to see the list succeed, but I've found myself in a lot more mirror matches than I used to.
1. What's the consensus on SSG/Dragonlord Dromoka/something else as the 60th card?
2. Is running a single SSG fine or should it be 2?
3. How does the deck fare against Grixis control and merfolk?
4. Should i do a 2-2 split of Sleight and Stirrings? Or cut 1x SSG and 1x Hivemind for a 3-3 split?
5. Would glittering wish be a viable option for this deck?
Thanks in advance!
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
Round 1 vs Grixis Control
He was playing some sort of list with Jace and no fetches apparently. Game 1 he tapped out when I had double Amulet and Titan'd him for 20. Game 2, I mulled to 6 and he looked at Summoner's Pact and Hive Mind, took Summoner's Pact. I also had Tolaria West. Turn 2 I drew into Summer Bloom, he had no counter, and I put some lands into play. The following turn, he tapped out for some reason and I played Hive Mind. He scooped knowing the Tolaria West was in hand. Really strange from him considering he used to play the deck.
Record: 1-0
Round 2 vs Merfolk
Game 1 I saw a Darkslick Shores and another Island and he scooped to turn 2 Titan. I had suspected the guy was on the Blood Artist deck since I played against him two weeks ago, but not today. My bet was he was on some sort of Grixis Deck, maybe Grixis Control or Grixis Delver. Game 2, turns out he's playing Merfolk and I obviously boarded incorrectly. I got run over fairly quickly and that was that. Game 3, I boarded correctly and had a very good Pyroclasm that killed three Merfolks. Eventually I got to double Titan and swing for a very obvious lethal.
After the match, we got to talking. He's going to GP Pittsburgh and we were discussing the matchup and the sideboard plan. Apparently his friend won some sizeable tournament recently and provided him the decklist and sideboard plan. His friend was obviously wrong about it though. He boarded out the Spreading Seas for some reason, which despite being somewhat slow at sorcery speed, only get punished if I turn 2 him. He also had to attack and let me block with Titan in game 3 because no Islands. People playing this matchup poorly bodes well for me. Apparently the Darkslick Shores was to throw people off and also avoid getting Choked out of the game.
Record: 2-0
Round 3 vs Elves
Game 1 I mulled to 5 and then just didn't have any way to interact or combo fast enough. I don't expect anything with that mulligan into a fast deck. Game 2, I played so awful it's not even funny. I just accept it was bad on my part. I perhaps could have won if I made actual good plays. I died on turn 4 in the first game and turn 3 in the second game.
Record: 2-1
Round 4 vs Twin
Game 1 I was dead to combo but my opponent didn't have it. After some sequencing I attacked with Titan while he had no mana and lethal'd him for 20 when I had double Amulet. In game 2, I was similarly dead to combo for a turn (or Blood Moon), thankfully he didn't have it. The next turn I had Nature's Claim to answer Blood Moon. I ended up with double Amulet again with Azusa in play to dodge out his counter and lethal him.
Record: 3-1
Ended up third, not that bad. I definitely pooped in round 3 vs Elves, not sure what I was thinking. It was a strange scenario and I'll be ready next time. Outside of that, I tend to never turn 2 or 3 combo in the matchups I need to, but get it in those I don't need it. Funny how my luck works like that. I do tend to roll fairly well though, so I won't overly complain.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Played during our regular FNM, so far my results with Amulet Bloom have been slowly creeping up and I've gone from regular 1-3's to 2-2 and 2-1-1.
Round 1 vs Living End
I have alot of experience playing this deck. Game 1 I was on the draw, I had a Titan and pact in hand but no acceleration. On my first turn I drew a card, didn't play a land and discarded the titan. I played a Titan on turn 3 and he had to cascade to protect himself. This gave me looping Titan's and I quickly closed the game. Second game I went turn 3 titan with counter backup, it ended quickly. I must say that he drew only one Ghost Quarter and Fulminator Mage total during 2 games, that was kinda lucky.
1-0-0
Round 2 vs U/W/R Control
It was my first time playing this deck so the first game I was ill-prepared for it. My opponent always plays his decks tight so and pretty much managed to counter everything I did. Game 2 I had a Cavern of Souls in my starting 7 and wiped him out pretty fast on turn 2 with double amulet. We started game 3 and time was immediately called. My turn 2 Titan got countered and he didn't have a threat to put down, so we drew.
1-0-1
Round 3 vs Elves
First game was over on turn 2, he combo'd out, got Emrakul and it was over. Game 2 I recovered from a Blood Moon (I saw the Stomping Ground game 1), he recovered from a Pyroclasm. He combo'd out the turn before I could kill him. There was pretty much nothing I could do to interrupt the combo.
1-1-1
Round 4 vs Ad Nauseum
Turn 1 Lotus quickly gave away what he was playing so I adjusted asap, turn 3 double titan with a counter for his Angel's Grace killed the game. Game 2 was over just as quick when he got his combo on and I couldn't counter. Game 3 was very interesting since both our decks kinda wiffed on what they should be doing. Around turn 6 I got a Hive mind down and played a Pact of Summoning. I knew he could pay for it due to his Lotus coming of suspend or he could Angels Grace, I was merely trying to make him skip his turn and spend resources. In his upkeep he cast Angels Grace, I pointed to Hive Mind and he sighed. For some reason he still went off with the combo but ofcourse couldn't kill me since I was also under the protection from Angels Grace. I couldn't kill him on my turn but was at around 30 life and he didn't have enough lands left to kill me at instant speed.
I ended up 2-1-1 so not a losing record but alot of room for improvement. I have to read more about the Elves deck since I didn't really how to interrupt it.