I suppose my view on Mardu is just different than most folks here. I have no intention of trying to play Mardu like a worse Jund (with bobs, Lilly, etc.). That's not the strong point of Mardu. We have lots of lifegain, can take advantage of stuff like Bitterblossom / Souls, and have more removal to grind the game out to get to our impact spells. I also have no intention of playing Mardu in this Eldrazi environment so I'm talking from a post-ban perspective. That's fair if that's not "on topic" so to speak.
To the person saying that all their threats die to pyroclasm...that doesn't have to be the case. My mardu decks have only Souls and Faerie Rogues that die to clasm. Of course, though, that also has it's downsides as you're a bit slower so you have to pack more anti-combo cards in the SB. YMMV.
I have the same mindset. Mardu midrange will almost always be a worse Jund/ Junk deck. The token midrange decks like Mentor/ Pyromancer builds have inefficient fuels and the value creature builds (dark confidant, abbot, etc.) lack a strong means to finish the game. If you're playing either Tasigur or Gurmag Angler, you're better off playing Grixis.
Mardu control is where we want to be at. Mardu has the best removals (proactive/ reactive) and the best planeswalkers. Now the question is, how should we construct it?
Personally my approach is relying on token producers as a form of card advantage and inevitability (two key features of control). Without the blue card draw/ selection spells and reach spells (snapcaster mage), one needs to consider the impact of each spell and the ratio between removal and offensive tokens.
The link above is my current iteration. It runs more token producers than a typical bw token build because I find that you have to run 12+ token producers to mitigate hands with no tokens. The key is to go creatureless and make your opponents feel stupid when they play their 1-for-1 removal. On the other hand, you're playing the best 1-for-1 removal spells since you're in mardu colors.
I suppose my view on Mardu is just different than most folks here. I have no intention of trying to play Mardu like a worse Jund (with bobs, Lilly, etc.). That's not the strong point of Mardu. We have lots of lifegain, can take advantage of stuff like Bitterblossom / Souls, and have more removal to grind the game out to get to our impact spells. I also have no intention of playing Mardu in this Eldrazi environment so I'm talking from a post-ban perspective. That's fair if that's not "on topic" so to speak.
For me, Mardu with Bobs and Liliana is in no way a worse Jund. It operates in a similar way, but these cards are overwhelmingly powerful to not be played. We are slower than Jund and most other decks, therefore we need to be able to grind and control, that’s how my view on Mardu looks like. Therfore we have Lingering Souls, which is a card Jund would love to have, and can’t get access to. I would like to reference Paul Rietzl’s view on Mardu from one of his recent articles on Channelfireball: (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/mardu-in-modern/)
“I liked little parts of what different decks were doing. Abzan had the Liliana of the Veil/Lingering Souls shell that gave other grindy decks fits. Jeskai played the best mix of efficient removal—Path to Exile/Lightning Bolt/Lightning Helix is a nightmare for normal creature strategies. Jund was capable of the turn-1 discard spell into turn-2 Dark Confidant opening that brutalized decks light on removal and played Kolaghan’s Command, one of my favorite cards in the format. Abzan’s flaw was weak matchups against Infect, Merfolk, and Affinity—it wanted Bolt and Helix. Jeskai couldn’t disrupt combo—it wanted discard. And Jund lost to the other grindy matchups—it wanted Lingering Souls”
Note that if we have the enchantment hate in our hand, we can just float mana in response to the blood moon and cast the wear/tear and what have you. On top of that, filters make it less punishing to fetch for basics. We do even have plenty of discard if they don't top deck the moon too. Even with a really greedy mana base, blood moon isn't always the end of the world.
I would never purposely play into a blood moon if I could help it, but in my experience, blood moon rarely forces a concession from us. Sometimes its just the straw that breaks our back, if we're top decking, with little in play, staring down a scary board, then they slam a moon, sure sometimes thats it, but moon isn't the total game ender to us like it is to some decks.
That being said, I wouldn't want 3 drops that require double colors in every color here, but lili + brimaz + finks is managable, etc.
I know that, so it doesn’t require the Plains, but it still requires Wear // Tear to be in your hand, which, if I sum up all the cases on which Blood Moon comes down, will not be 100 % of the time. If you haven’t had Wear // Tear, after Blood Moon hits the battlefield, you would now need 2 cards to get rid of it, the aforementioned Plains as well as Wear // Tear, that seems quite unwinnable to me in this case.
What I wanted to say is, that if I only looked at the cases Blood Moon comes down, I don’t want to see myself in a spot where I need to either have Wear // Tear in my hand, or, if not, get into topdeck mode. I want to prevent Blood Moon beforehand, have enough Basics to still be able to cast Liliana and even all of my other cards after Blood Moon, which can’t work if I have complete greedy mana requirements. Having requirements for double colours on two different colours is the maximum in my opinion.
Of course we can also discard and we have cases on which Blood Moon gets never drawn by the opponent, but you can’t count on this.
I personally hate lands that enter tapped with a burning passion, so unless the land is either good enough to warrant that, or such a key card in the deck, I would not play them. Temples fall into this category. I would much rather just play bobs, truths, lilianas and just except that some draws are going to be dead, and hope that it won't matter as much. The struggle here is that if a temple shows you a nice card you want to keep, you still get punished, and it ruins your curve.
We have tons of good three drops and 4 drops, but playing them on curve can be hard. If we didn't play discard spells, we could afford lands that enter tapped turn 1, but if you aren't playing discard, why are you playing temples.
By all means, tell us how it goes, but generally, we have better card advantage in black. Abbot, bob, chandra, truths, phyrexian arena, etc.
I though about this yesterday. Blood Moon is really going to get us anyway most games. We need to a)have discard and b) the right fetches for us to feasibly play around it. But if they topdeck it at the right spot we are boned and there isnt much we can do about it. Even with 1 swamp and 1 plains on board we are still crippled by it a lot. The good thing that we have going with our manabase is that is as little painful as it can be, rarely you need to fetch-untapped shock so we usually dont take huge amounts of pain from our lands. So is there a way to contort the manabase without making it much more painful to allow the 4th color? Deathrite made this possible when it was legal thanks to its fixing and lifegain abilities. While it was legal 4color "Ajundi" was very popular. We probably have to lose the manlands which are good, more from being manlands than from being great by themselves.
It is not likely to be worth it but it could be useful to know what the tradeoffs are, as I said before I think Moon/spreading seas is getting us wereever we are playing 3 of 4 colors. Food for thought.
Thats my point. I recently got to test against Skred Red, which is kinda the extreme case of Blood Moon hosing. What it basically meant: The cases, on which Blood Moon comes down were increased very much and you had to deal with multiple copies of Blood Moon. So in reality, you were Blood Mooned all the time. I fetched for basics right from the beginning, but Blood Moon was still annoying as hell, since you can only play 1 to max 2 spells each turn (you will have 1 of each colour in basic in the best case)
In this situation you really feel the mana requirements this decks has to fulfill, and even in my non greedy list, its terribly hard with Blood Moon out. With basics out, you can still play things, but Blood Moon added more or less a free Rule of Law to it.
Yeah the mana requirements of the deck are brutal. If you play the colorless land you can really see how little it does help to cast your spells and is real liability. And yes the pseudo-rule of law effect is very crippling unless we are on topdeck mode already and still hoses a bunch of our cards. It is just one of the cons of playing one of the 3 color "goodstuff.dek" blood moon always get you unless you really build the deck around it.
About the Heir, I think is probably not good enough right now. Two for oneing ourselfs for a boltable threat is probably not the place we want to be atm. But I do agree it is very interesting and with the potential madness cards can be a player. It is aggresive and it does punishes mulligans which is one of the parts we want on our two drops, it does not stabilice us though when playing from behind which is the other face of the coin. If we only wanted aggresive-sided 2 drops red has a bunch of those.
One thing that it is interesting is that is a "free" discard outlet that was "capped". I dont know if we can infer from it that madness is going to be very powerfull and limiting discard to one card was necesary to not make standard too crazy. I am really stoked for some madness playable cards in modern.
Hi everyone, I am fairly new to the variant (I had built it once before but within a week, my backpack got stolen out of my truck and I had to rebuild my modern collection from scratch). Luckily I struck pretty big over the last 6 months or so on speculations (example: I played BW Eldrazi starting in December and bought in for $65. Sold off all my Eldrazi pieces fist week of Feb for $400 which let me buy back into this). Anyway I have a tournament report from last night as well as a decklist I'd like opinions on here in a second, but first I'm going to respond to some of the quote/conversation. I think Heir has potential to be alright but I am a bit drawn aback on 2 fronts. If it was a 1cmc creature, it'd make for a delver replacement in black. This means we might have been able to do a Mardu style delverish list. As it stands I am unsold unless madness is a real thing. The reason they capped the discard is so that you can't just discard again if someone responds to the trigger (not to mention letting you get multiple madness cards in a turn). He is supposed to be an aggro piece for Standard since you already have a 2R madness haster to discard when you flip him on turn 3. I don't think he belongs in our lists though.
Ok so my decklist. It's still a total work in project, what I would like to specify is that I'm pushing my curve higher and would like to be essentially a control deck rather than a midrange deck. Inadvertently, this means I have a TON of tokens over creatures in the list but I am unsure if that is actual direction I want to end up. My sideboard is total hodgepodge as well. I do want to add Liliana of the Veils to the list eventually but I don't know where she would end up in the list (not to mention I'd have to buy her).
Round 1 Infect(0-2)[0-1]:
This was my friend and we had done a lot of playtesting just before the start of the tournament. Since we were both very aware of what each other were on, it greatly affected our Game 1 plays. I had an opener with a bolt and a bitterblossom on a mull to 6. He dropped a turn 2 Spellskite however and followed it up with a turn 3 Blighted Agent. I was unable to draw another removal spell that could kill the spellskite in the 2 turns it took him to kill me. I did have lethal damage set up (thanks to Sorin, Solemn Visitor) if he didn't topdeck another pump spell. He did and that was it. Game 2 was much better. I was whittling him down with Lingering Souls and Bitterblossom tokens when he finally found a blighted agent. He swings and pumps into my Cackling Doom (I had left 2 extra mana open in case of spell pierce). He had a Dispel instead. He was tapped out (aside from 2 Inkmoth Nexus) and he was at 7, I had 7 guys out. All I needed to do was draw a bolt/helix effect and I'd have lethal on the swing (regardless of his spellskite since he'd be unable to pay the 2 life). Unfortunately I hit a land and he hit me for lethal with the blighted agent on the crackback. It was strange how few bolt/kill spells I drew in both of these games and he found Blighted agent both times. I still like this matchup because Lingering Souls/Bitterblossom make life miserable for them.
Round 2 Jund (2-0)[1-1]:
Both of these games were long and grindy.. just as we like it. I can't remember too many specifics of either game other than Painful Truths being an absolute monster in both games. I hit over the course of both games and he hit 2 Bobs. He netted 1 actual card off both Bobs each game and in game 2 his Bob betrayed him (He was at 13, bob flipped Kalitas taking him to 9. I had 4 Fairy/Spirits out, I played Sorin and cracked in for 8 and he flipped an IoK for the game). This is one of those matchups I think I'll do very well and are the matchups I look forward to winning the most.
Round 3 Bant Coco Humans (2-1)[2-1]:
This kind blatantly made kind of a jank bant human coco deck. Game 1 I had enough spot removal and a Bitterblossom to get me there (right when he felt like he was stabilizing, I dropped Elspeth and he couldn't find an answer). Game 2 I kept a hindsight greedy hand with 3 3cmc spells (cackling doom, Timely Reinforcements and Lingering Souls). He played a T1 Heirarch, Turn 2 Champion of the Parish x2 and a T3 Thalia. The Thalia was what doomed me because my topdecks were 2 more lingering souls and a land. Game 3 my opening hand was Bolt, Bolt, Path, Path, Bitterblossom, Fetch, Fetch... yeah I won that game. He was slowly chaining nonsense together (Coco'd into 2x E-witt to get back 2 coco's... coco again to find an Ewit and Reflector Mage, get back coco). But I had an army of Fairies, Souls when he had his team at ~3 power with Gavony Township, I dropped Elspeth. he was unable to keep up with the steady stream of blockers and Elspeth eventually found her Ult. He had to pump with Gavony to clear my last few blockers but I sacrificed Elspeth to clear his board after that. My stream of 3/3 Fairies did the work from there.
Round 4 UW Control (0-2)[2-2]:
I can't wait til Eldrazi is out of the format so this decklist won't be as evil against me. Both games he got 3x Spreading Seas on my lands. I still almost ground out the games against him but between Spreading Seas and MB 4x GQ to keep me off manlands, the control mirror gets pretty difficult. After Eldrazi goes, they won't be running near as much land hate and the matchup could get immensely better. Bitterblossom did a TON of work here as I got it out T2 both games. Supreme Verdicts only do so much. One disappointing note about these two long games, I drew 0 Painful Truths which I feel are a must draw in the control matchup.
All in all it felt good for a first run. Both my losses were partially luck of the draw based and weren't blowouts so that is good. I am debating Chandra or Outpost Seige in the sideboard. The + on Chandra is very relevant at times (allowed me to kill a Kalitas and Liliana with a Bolt against Jund.. talk about feel bad moments for your opponent when they opted not to + Lili) but she is easier to remove than Outpost Siege. I also really need to work out a sideboard plan for common matchups. I tend to take out the MB discard a lot since most of the spot removal is still live against other matchups. Anyway, any input would be greatly appreciated and I really like this variants chances to rise in popularity and success now that the deck isn't severely at risk of dying to infinite 1/4's on turn 4 (where bolt and Helix felt really bad)
@ Exatraz: I was really surprised you lost to the Infect matchup. This one is normally very favorable for us. I think having a couple Kolaghan's Command and of course Liliana of the Veil in deck would be good, and not only regarding to this specific matchup. I would also like to have more discard in your list, its at least 6 for me.
Liliana of the Veil is in my opinion also the key to the UW Control matchup. Without Liliana, I think one will have a hard time playing Mardu, I personally can't imagine playing without her.
As for painful truths, I don't like it, said it a couple times already, its a complete tempoloss for me, I see its appeal in grindy matchups, but still you lose permission and life by playing it. If heading for the control route, this is controversial in my opinion. Dark Confidant is the card I would put in that spot. Painful truths can also be a budget replacement though.
@ Exatraz: I was really surprised you lost to the Infect matchup. This one is normally very favorable for us. I think having a couple Kolaghan's Command and of course Liliana of the Veil in deck would be good, and not only regarding to this specific matchup. I would also like to have more discard in your list, its at least 6 for me.
Liliana of the Veil is in my opinion also the key to the UW Control matchup. Without Liliana, I think one will have a hard time playing Mardu, I personally can't imagine playing without her.
As for painful truths, I don't like it, said it a couple times already, its a complete tempoloss for me, I see its appeal in grindy matchups, but still you lose permission and life by playing it. If heading for the control route, this is controversial in my opinion. Dark Confidant is the card I would put in that spot. Painful truths can also be a budget replacement though.
My problem with Kommand is that I don't have a ton of creatures as it is, so one of the better modes on the card is essentially dead.
Liliana will definitely slot in when I get her though. I totally agree that she is a monster in the control Mirror. She is next on my buylist but at $100+ a pop.. I gotta wait a minute to get her.
As for more discard, I am just not entirely sure that 1 more will do a whole lot. Essentially I am either taking out removal or sitting at 5 discard spells. Kommand could potentially come in to cover both grounds I guess. The Infect matchup was really just bad luck. He knew to delay the Blighted Agent til after spellskite because he knew what I was playing and somehow I drew a single bolt for removal the entire game. It was pretty unlucky. The second game I wasn't expecting dispel but I had used several removal spells before that (and he had to chump with a Inkmoth Nexus in order not to die on the next swing. I'm surprised I lost it too.
As for Bob vs Painful Truth. I upped my curve a bit and think Bob would likely kill me too much. Top that off with the fact he can be removed and gain me 0 extra cards... I don't really like that. The main reason I want the Truths is to draw me extra cards. It can be a tempo loss but so far I haven't experienced that as an issue. The abundance of 1 drop removal spells has let me draw cards and have removal open on turn 4 without worry. I don't care as much about tempo as much as I care about controlling the board.
Sure, if Painful Truths works for you, its fine. Your deck list an perspective differs from mine in general, so card choices have to be made accordingly. The thing about Painful truths is to me that it doesn't seem to work in an controlling approach, which is the route you want to go. In Early to Mid game, which are the steps of the game were most games will be decided, you want control. As for the card, you would have to tap out to play it and you can't control along side being tapped out, thats what I dislike.
If you have Bob, Kolaghan's Command becomes also more viable though.
The number of discard spells is preference. I personally like them very much and I play 7 for that reason. That is also a small issue. I think the main one is that you don't have Liliana. Unfortunately this is the most expensive issue as well.
Sure, if Painful Truths works for you, its fine. Your deck list an perspective differs from mine in general, so card choices have to be made accordingly. The thing about Painful truths is to me that it doesn't seem to work in an controlling approach, which is the route you want to go. In Early to Mid game, which are the steps of the game were most games will be decided, you want control. As for the card, you would have to tap out to play it and you can't control along side being tapped out, thats what I dislike.
If you have Bob, Kolaghan's Command becomes also more viable though.
The number of discard spells is preference. I personally like them very much and I play 7 for that reason. That is also a small issue. I think the main one is that you don't have Liliana. Unfortunately this is the most expensive issue as well.
Lili is also the thing I'm totally onboard adding once I get the funds as well. My goal is to not tap out (even for Bob) for the first several turns. Use those turns to remove threats from field or hand with discard and removal. Turns 4-6 I want to cast Painful Truths to be able to refill my hand and play a threat. I then close the game out from there. The only exception to that idea is usually Bitterblossom which can come down turn 2 and some decks REALLY struggle at finding an answer for it. The 1/1 Fliers just take over the game at that point (There were several turns where the UW control deck couldn't animate Colonnade and swing (well he could in theory) because it would just get blocked by a 1/1 fairy every turn and leave him tapped out. (I do remember I essentially had him in a particularly rough place where he was 2 mana short of casting Supreme Verdict and animating Colonnade to knock Elspeth down to 1. And I had a Kalitas in play to gain back some of my rapidly depleting life. EOT he had to double path his own two tokens he had left. He verdicted, animate and swing. I cast a second Kalitas I had in hand. He verdicted again animated and killed Elspeth. After that I was low enough that he used snap verdict to clear my board once more and then lethal me in the air.... sometimes your opponent just has all the answers (like board clearing 3 turns in a row so you don't kill them).
Boros Reckoner seems intersting, looking forward to see your results!
@ Exatraz Besides that, I agree on Indormi that your manabase is really painful. Also, since mentioned, Rest in Peace should be in your Sideboard, it drastically improves your UW Control matchup as well (you won't be supreme verdicted 3 times in a row, like you told) and this card is one reason white has one of the most powerful Sideboard options. I would also replace Disenchant by Wear // Tear or Hide // Seek, whatever you like more. Generally speaking, you maybe have to rework your sideboard accordingly.
TLDR: Scrubbed out in round 9 dropping to 5-4. MVPs were Kalitas, Discard suite, Lingering Souls, Olivia, and great sideboard cards. LVPs: Kolaghan's Command, Smoldering Marsh, Budgets, bad play, and Lightning Helix.
Full Report:
Head to the GP and catch up with the guys from my LGS and we're feeling good about our decks, prepped and ready after a Friday full of gauntlet testing. We have a diverse group of decks including Storm, Fish, Azorious Titan, and even Mill. Not the most hyper competitive bunch but we're feeling good. I decide to splurge for the second Kolaghan's Command I've been failing to trade for and get gouged 35 Australian for it. Ohh well worth it with a field full of affinity out there to matchup against. Registered the following decklist.
Round 1: 2-0 vs Zoo/Burn mashup. Game 1 I'm staring down a Goblin Guide with no way to remove it, a thoughtseize and a Dark Confidant. I end up drawing 4 cards from his guide and use that card advantage to eventually grind the game out. Kalitas was the coup de grace. Game two I look at my 7 and see 3 lands, Bob, SFGM, bolt, and Helix. The game is not remotely close and at one point I am at 26 after flipping souls to Bob.
Sideboard
In: Kalitas, Helix, Fulminator, Timely Out: 4 Thoughtseize
Round 2: 2-1 vs Coco GB elves. Lose game one after mis-assessing what his deck was trying to do. I focused on mana denial only to get blown out by a Coco for the 3 mana lose life for each elf card. Game 2 is very tight. I slow him down a bit by killing two mana dorks with a persecution, but he gets me down to 3 before I stabilize behind Kalitas and SFGM. Game three I disrupt him before starting to kill off his mana dorks and running away with the game via Chandra, Pryomaster. Mulled to 6 all three games, but the deck has a lot of card advantage to recover from it. Lingering Souls was great this game chumping to keep me alive and providing a clock in game three.
Sideboard
In: Chandra, Helix, Timely, Wrath, Prison, Persecution Out: 2 IoK, 2 Doom, 2 Confidant
Round 3: 2-0 vs UW Eldrazi. Game 1 is a slog. He keeps a slow hand and I manage to thoughtseize a Drowner just before it will come out. I eventually grind it out with souls and point some bolts at his face to finish game 1 off. Game two is an ugly low resource game. I mull to 5 him to four. He leads with a temple and passes. I go turn 1 thoughtseize and see another temple a TKS and a Skyspawner. Take the TKS and he slams another one that he scryed to the top. He sees Terminate, Path, and Lingering Souls. Takes the terminate to try to force me to give him his colored mana. I play souls take 4 and then rip a terminate the next turn. He never draws colored mana and I run away with it.
Sideboard
In: Fulminator, Wrath, Crackling Doom, Zealous Persecution Out: 2 Helix, 2 Kommand.
Round 4: 2-1 vs Ad Nauseum. The nightmare. A non interactive combo deck and I don't have Lili to properly pressure his hand. Not looking good. I manage to steal game 1 when he doesn't find an angel's grace or phyrexian unlife after chaining 4 cantrips together. Game two he slams a turn zero Leyline of Sanctity and I can't pressure fast enough with Dark Confidant. Game 3 He cantrips into turn 1 double Lotus Bloom. I'm resigned to my fate before I see my draw step. Stony Silence off the top! I'm alive! A few turns later I haven't found a clock faster than SFGM and he's still on one land. Then second land, cast echoing truth on Stony Silence. I just ask if I'm dead. Expecting to be dead. Resigned to 3-1. He pops lotus and drops Leyline of Sanctity. And I breathe a sigh of relief. Replay Stoney and add a Lingering Souls to the board.
At this point I'm on top of the world. I had set my goal at making day 2 and was thrilled to be in a positon where I just needed two wins in 5 rounds to get there. Was on top of the world at this point.
Round 5: 1-2 vs UW Time Warp. Actually worse than the nightmare. Here even my Thougtseizes aren't going to slow him down as his deck is much more redundant than Ad Naus, and it's much more a critical mass deck. Plus he has Paths, Superme Verdict, Timely Reinforcments, and Elixer of Immortality main. Game 1 is a slaughter. Just a slaughter. He chains about 8 turns in a row before trying to kill me with an awakened Part the Waterveil which gets terminated to he adibules to a Jace Beleren ultimate plan. Ughh... Game two I steal as I have Wear/Tear for his only Dicatate/Howling Mine and he kept a time walk heavy hand. Game three is just a disaster. I have almost no pressure and he quickly assembles enough mine effects to draw 4 a turn.
Sideboard
Out: 4 Path, 3 Terminate
In: Anything that can attack of deal damage to face.
Round 6: 1-2 vs UW Eldrazi. Don't remember the first two game very clearly but we split them. The third game is the game that is most interesting to me of the entire GP. I keep a 7 that is Blood Crypt, Smoldering Marsh, 2 Thoughtseize, Bob, Lingering Souls, and Wrath of God on the draw. I have no clue if this keep is correct. It has my best sideboard card in the mathcup in Wrath and Lingering Souls which is great. But I have no white mana. In retrospect I've decided I should have mulliganed but I think that may be results oriented thinking. Anyway being punished for Smoldering Marsh I lead off with it as I have little choice. If it's a second Blood Crypt I definitely lead off with a turn 1 thoughtseize. He plays a turn two mimic and I draw another white card. I tank and eventually decide to thoughtseize before playing my Blood Crypt to decide if I want to cast both. I see a Path, 2 Skyspawners, and a third land. I tank some more and decide that my line will be to take the path and lean on Bob to draw me mana. I play the Blood Crypt tapped and pass. He draws and plays a displacer off the top. I draw a Young Pyro and now desperate for a land run out Bob. He plays a Skyspawner and smashes. I don't block. Flip a lingering souls, draw a Shambling Vent and have no play expect Young Pyro and the game is pretty much over. I have no idea how I should have played this one. I think once I cast the thoughtseize it's correct to take the Path as I can't play Bob that turn anyway. But I could very well have been wrong to not just run him out in the first place. Anyway I'm now 4-2 and tilting a bit, and didn't write down sideboarding notes from here on out. Believe that I sideboard the same as the previous Eldrazi.
Round 7: 0-2 R/G Scapeshift. I get smashed game 1. He has a great ramp draw going Search into STE into Explore into lethal Scapeshift. I had no discard to pressure his hand out of threats. Game two I still had no discard but I had an aggressive pyromancer souls draw. Unfortuately I punted the game and the tilt became real. I didn't play properly around scapeshift. I had him at 8 with pryo and two 1/1's. I had a Vent I could attack with or a helix I could attack with. I attacked with the vent to go to 18 life rather than a helix to go to 19. If I had Helix'd I would have had a path so if he cast Inferno Titan I could spawn an extra elemental and still attack for lethal with the token and Vent and I would have been out of scapeshift range as he only had 6 lands in play at the time. Instead I died to Scapeshift for 18 damage thanks to attack with the vent. I probably still would have been disadvantaged in game three but if I had drawn discard I would have had a shot. So I titled super hard at this point. Knowing I threw away a game win and dropped to knife's edge at 4-3.
Round 8: 2-1 vs Jund Hakkon Dredge. These were some long drawn out awesome games of magic. Kalitas and SFGM were the maindeck MVPs. Kalitas for exiling reasons and SFGM as I bought back several bolts. Almost stole game one but he dropped two creatures late in the game and recurred four Vengevines. Just a little too much damage that late in the game. Games two and three game down to sticking Kalitas in one Olivia in the other and resolving Stony Silence around Abrupt Decay. Ghostly Prison was super key in one to stop a fast Lotleth Troll Vengevine draw. My opponent misplayed later in that game casting Damnation with Kalitas out, giving me two Zombies to finish the game off.
Round 9: 0-2 vs UW Control. Story of this game is I was punished for not having Liliana. Plain and simple. Without her I have no way to pressure through their countermagic and wraths. He had enough removal that he was comfortable spending a supreme verdict on just a dark confidant, and drew enough cards that he powered through a rest in peace to shut down Snaps, baby Jace, and Ojutai's Commands.
Anyway I was shattered. Went 4-0 and finished 1-4. Really tough pill swallow after the great start. So what am I taking away in terms of what I could do better. Definitely would have had a better result with Lili, played 4 of 9 matchups against effectively creatureless (UW timewalk and control, Ad Naus, and scapeshift) decks. Going 1-3 in those matchups really sunk me. Having 9 completely dead cards is so bad. Playing tighter would have given me a really good shot at day 2. Would have had a game three vs RG scapeshift with a 40ish% chance to get my 15th point there. Also matchup luck could have gone much better for me. Facing Eldrazi twice and with chances to win both matches felt good and playing a third time wouldn't have been the worst. But I think I got very unluckly by not running into Affinity which was the second most common archetype of the day anecdotally and just checking the top 100 day 1 decks on coverage. Affinity is a great matchup for Mardu and not seeing it really hurt me this tournament.
Card specific takeaways: Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is the real deal. If I had mana to cast him drawing him felt great. Against any fair deck he is so much value and against unfair graveyard decks he is the best draw in your deck. Olivia is good too, but she has been a little more matchup dependent in my experience.
Lingering Souls is the best card in the deck. Maybe if I had Lili it would be her, but I don't and it's souls.
1 mana discard is so good and gives you a shot even in nominally horrible matchups. Punishes Eldrazi hard given that they are a heavy mulligan deck.
Young Pyromancer scares opponents. People were as reluctant to allow Peezy to survive as Bob. I haven't played anywhere near as much with Abbot or Pack Rat as I have with Peezy, but I am still firmly convinced that Pyromancer is great in this deck.
Kolaghan's Command is a powerful card. And did win me one game by regrowthing a Young Pyro. But this is not the meta for it. If you hit your affinity matchups that are expected it's great, but it's not common enough and that matchup is great anyway. Dust it back off once control isn't planeswalkers and is Tron again.
My sideboard was mostly awesome for me. Everything came in at least once. Chandra saw the least only coming in against elves (was too tilted to bring it against UW control). Ghostly Prison, Stony Silence, and Rest in Peace all came close to single handedly won game. The second Kalitas was great. The sketchiest looking card is probably Painful truths. It came in twice against UW control and Dredge. Never drew it but it would have been solid in both those matchups. Also liked having it available against potential Jund matchups.
I ran a bunch of basics expecting a ton of land hate but didn't see Blood Moon once. Heard there were a fair number of them running around though.
Anyway I had a great time, didn't meet my goal but I came close. And I'm proud of that. And the squad from my store did really well. With all of us alive at round 8, and 2 of the squad making it day 2.
Last couple of points. I think Mardu Midrange is great and well positioned if you have Liliana's. Without them you're going to be soft to the control decks that are tuning themselves to beat the fast eldrazi draws. If budget weren't an issue going forward I would push 1 Crackling Doom to the board, the other out entirely, and shave a creature probably the SFGM for three Lili's in the main. Would cut the third Helix from the board to accommodate the extra Doom (Helix would come back if the eldrazi meance does eat a ban) as I as cutting Helix very often. SFGM would be a toss up with Timely for a sideboard slot wasn't impressed by it. Too hard to get both modes active. Lastly I'd go to 3 Pyro 4 Bob.
So non budget changes would be +2 fetches -2 basics, -2 Crackling Doom -1 SFGM +3 Liliana's. Sideboard -1 Helix, -1 Timely, +1 Crackling Doom, +1 SFGM.
One last time I think the deck is awesome and I think if I'd had Lili's I would be playing right now instead of typing this up. The deck is strong, and strong right now.
Edit: Added some spoiler tags as this was too long a post to be weildly for people scrolling through.
Nice report! It's not just you btw, Lingering Souls is just the best card in the deck (for our strategy). Liliana is close too, but Lingering souls is just amazing (not to mention great WITH lilly), and like you mentioned she's very hard for spell-based decks to deal with.
That last part is very relevant to anyone thinking about running this deck without discard (and I absolutely think of Lilly as part of the discard suite, moreso than Kommand, though she does a lot more than just discard). Without the discard package, esp Lilly, you basically don't have a reliable road to victory against most spell-based decks, and in those same matchups when you follow a discard spell with a lilly you often basically win.
Nice report! It's not just you btw, Lingering Souls is just the best card in the deck (for our strategy). Liliana is close too, but Lingering souls is just amazing (not to mention great WITH lilly), and like you mentioned she's very hard for spell-based decks to deal with.
That last part is very relevant to anyone thinking about running this deck without discard (and I absolutely think of Lilly as part of the discard suite, moreso than Kommand, though she does a lot more than just discard). Without the discard package, esp Lilly, you basically don't have a reliable road to victory against most spell-based decks, and in those same matchups when you follow a discard spell with a lilly you often basically win.
Discard is very cucial to this deck, I also stated that out a couple times, so I agree with you. Also on Lili, without her I feel the deck is not competitive enough, or even not at all.
Greetings Gentlemen. I have been looking around for a new deck to build and this looks very interesting. Just a few questions before I commit.
How do you guys deal with decks that just "go off" like Scapeshift and Storm? Just attack their hand to get the pieces they need?
And the very aggressive decks like Boogles/Hexproof, Infect and affinity? How are they?
I must say that this type of deck looks very good on paper. But why is it less than 0.5% of the meta? (According to mtggoldfish/mtgpulse/mtgtop8)
Yes, one thing is our discard spell package which is very important, so disrupting opponent's gameplans by discard is one point. But against specific matchups we have some essential tools to disrupt them.
As for Scapeshift, I gotta say, its a tough matchup. Since we are white, we have lifegain which comes in handy though. Against this matchup we have to save life by fetching accordingly, discard helps as well, but it still is tough in my opinion. I am also not that experienced regariding that matchup, so maybe someone else can share some thoughts on that one.
Against Storm,we have SB options like Rest in Peace, which will hose their Desperate Ravings and Past in Flames or Pyromancer Ascension strategies. If we have Rest in Peace, we have much more time to take the game over. Lifegain comes in as well, so all in all, Storm will have a tough time comboing off while Rest in Peace is on the board.
Generally speaking, non creatures strategies are non favourable Game 1, since we have a lot of dead removal in our deck. After sideboarding, we are capable of adjust to that a bit. But one of the key issues regarding these matchups is proper decision making, you gotta know what do to, fetch accordingly and work your way up to the win.
Regarding Aggro Matchups, like Infect, Affinity and Bogles, they are all favourable for us. (except for Eldrazi, that deck is broken) We do have access to the best removal spells in Modern, as well as Lingering Souls, therefore Infect will have a hard time in general, we just remove every creature they have and discard important cards they want to have in order to protect their creatures. Same goes for Affinity, although discard is less valuable here, since they dump their hand pretty fast. Game 1 is winnable pretty easily, I would say, and in game 2 we have Stony Silence to get ahead.
For the Bogles matchup we are basically keen on cards like Liliana of the Veil or Crackling Doom. Discard would surely help as well, we can possibly discard their one and only creature they have and we can build up our board from that state on.
Thanks for the write up Grapefruit. Sorry to hear that you didn't make day 2 after getting so close but I'm glad to hear you had fun anyway. I have to agree with pretty much everything you have said in your card evaluations.
Side question: What does everyone thing of the new Archangel Avacyn / Avacyn, the Purifier in our lists? I am currently torn, I think it has a lot of potential as a combat trick and beater, but I i'm not hot on 5 drops with Bob plus when it flips it kills almost everything else on our board.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
Yeah its kinda controversial, her ETB ability protects your creatures, whereas her flip ability basicall kills everything you own. I actually don't think we need that combat trick, we tend to not play many creatures at all, except for tokens maybe, but I don't know, Avacyn could safe a bunch of them from an potential board wipe, but as soon as the opponents kills a single one with another spell, the board wipe is real.
Also I don't like the mana requirements, she might be a nice beater, but for that mana and for that purpose I rather play a Baneslayer Angel I think. I like the Flash ability though.
In addition this card is nuts with the current ruling with lingering souls. If for example 4 lingering dies on the same turn. She flips 4 times, dealing 6 damage to each opponent and nuking everything, she is insane in token based decks, specially if they can sack for value.
I am sorry, I don't get that actually, so I have to ask, why does she flip 4 times because of 4 Lingering Tokens that died? And why would that mean 6 dmg?
In addition this card is nuts with the current ruling with lingering souls. If for example 4 lingering dies on the same turn. She flips 4 times, dealing 6 damage to each opponent and nuking everything, she is insane in token based decks, specially if they can sack for value.
I am sorry, I don't get that actually, so I have to ask, why does she flip 4 times because of 4 Lingering Tokens that died? And why would that mean 6 dmg?
Techincally they are the same creature so she flips between the 2 forms for each creature that died however Matt Tabback said/hinted that she will never see play under the "current rules" so I am guessing we will see something to clear this up over the next month.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
Greetings Gentlemen. I have been looking around for a new deck to build and this looks very interesting. Just a few questions before I commit.
How do you guys deal with decks that just "go off" like Scapeshift and Storm? Just attack their hand to get the pieces they need?
And the very aggressive decks like Boogles/Hexproof, Infect and affinity? How are they?
I must say that this type of deck looks very good on paper. But why is it less than 0.5% of the meta? (According to mtggoldfish/mtgpulse/mtgtop8)
This archetype is fairly new since it's "most recent" major debut last month at PT OGW piloted by Ben Stark.
As a result, folks aren't really sold on it's competitiveness just yet and will probably opt for Jund (Tier 1) or maybe Abzan (Tier 2) as their go to Midrange poster boys.
Until someone finds the perfect list so that Mardu can begin to put up consistent results at major events, people--a majority of the time--will continue to invest in a build that is already tried and tested.
If that is the case it would be a bit more compelling, but I also don't see that happening, didn't know that interaction though.
As for competitiveness, for me, Mardu is lacking maybe one really good card that it can be compareable to Jund or Abzan. Both Abzan and Jund just have Tarmogoyf to be able to close games very fast, if intended. As for now, Mardu operates on a different level, we are griendier, tend to be slower, and we do have the option for going big and wide. Therefore, Mardu can be played as a Control deck quite nicely, Midrange is just not yet the best option in my opinion.
Paul Rietzl and Ben Stark both played this deck during the PT, because they were excpecting many aggro-ish decks like Infect and Affinity. If that would have been the actual case (It kinda was, both decks were fairly present) the deck would have gotten more spotlight on, than it actual got. What I personally hated about the PT, was that the match featured with Ben Stark, was shifted after G1 to the "more interesting" Eldrazi matchup, so thats one of the reasons Eldrazi was so incredibly hiped through that tournament. Therefore Mardu just didn't quite appear in peoples discussion topics. Unfortunately, Mardu is, like many other archetypes, not really capable of beating Eldrazi, at least not with the list Ben Stark and Paul Rietzl piloted. (and there is not really a good list by now either) All in all, thats why we have yet to be discovered, and will remain an underdog deck for now, but under the correct meta, we surely could shine, but not with this Eldrazi archetype in my opinion.
EDIT: We can see some progress going on though, since we were promoted to Developing Competitive lately
@grapefruit another follow up after reading through all of your MUs; I'm pretty surprised to see that you chose to keep in Confidants against both Eldrazi & Burn. I find that we very easily out card either of those decks without Bob (maybe less true for you without Lilly?) and they put on enough pressure that Bob usually just feels like a chump blocker. I feel like I'd rarely want to trade life for cards there, and I'd more value something like Timely that just gives me time to use the cards I already have. I'm especially surprised you preferred Bob over Seize vs Burn; Sieze isn't great there but I'd rather take 2 from Sieze than 4 from Boros Charm, etc. Curious about your thinking there.
I have the same mindset. Mardu midrange will almost always be a worse Jund/ Junk deck. The token midrange decks like Mentor/ Pyromancer builds have inefficient fuels and the value creature builds (dark confidant, abbot, etc.) lack a strong means to finish the game. If you're playing either Tasigur or Gurmag Angler, you're better off playing Grixis.
Mardu control is where we want to be at. Mardu has the best removals (proactive/ reactive) and the best planeswalkers. Now the question is, how should we construct it?
Personally my approach is relying on token producers as a form of card advantage and inevitability (two key features of control). Without the blue card draw/ selection spells and reach spells (snapcaster mage), one needs to consider the impact of each spell and the ratio between removal and offensive tokens.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mardu-creatureless/
The link above is my current iteration. It runs more token producers than a typical bw token build because I find that you have to run 12+ token producers to mitigate hands with no tokens. The key is to go creatureless and make your opponents feel stupid when they play their 1-for-1 removal. On the other hand, you're playing the best 1-for-1 removal spells since you're in mardu colors.
Only cards I'm not too sure about is the Ajani.
For me, Mardu with Bobs and Liliana is in no way a worse Jund. It operates in a similar way, but these cards are overwhelmingly powerful to not be played. We are slower than Jund and most other decks, therefore we need to be able to grind and control, that’s how my view on Mardu looks like. Therfore we have Lingering Souls, which is a card Jund would love to have, and can’t get access to. I would like to reference Paul Rietzl’s view on Mardu from one of his recent articles on Channelfireball: (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/mardu-in-modern/)
“I liked little parts of what different decks were doing. Abzan had the Liliana of the Veil/Lingering Souls shell that gave other grindy decks fits. Jeskai played the best mix of efficient removal—Path to Exile/Lightning Bolt/Lightning Helix is a nightmare for normal creature strategies. Jund was capable of the turn-1 discard spell into turn-2 Dark Confidant opening that brutalized decks light on removal and played Kolaghan’s Command, one of my favorite cards in the format. Abzan’s flaw was weak matchups against Infect, Merfolk, and Affinity—it wanted Bolt and Helix. Jeskai couldn’t disrupt combo—it wanted discard. And Jund lost to the other grindy matchups—it wanted Lingering Souls”
Therefore, for me, it is not a worse Jund.
I know that, so it doesn’t require the Plains, but it still requires Wear // Tear to be in your hand, which, if I sum up all the cases on which Blood Moon comes down, will not be 100 % of the time. If you haven’t had Wear // Tear, after Blood Moon hits the battlefield, you would now need 2 cards to get rid of it, the aforementioned Plains as well as Wear // Tear, that seems quite unwinnable to me in this case.
What I wanted to say is, that if I only looked at the cases Blood Moon comes down, I don’t want to see myself in a spot where I need to either have Wear // Tear in my hand, or, if not, get into topdeck mode. I want to prevent Blood Moon beforehand, have enough Basics to still be able to cast Liliana and even all of my other cards after Blood Moon, which can’t work if I have complete greedy mana requirements. Having requirements for double colours on two different colours is the maximum in my opinion.
Of course we can also discard and we have cases on which Blood Moon gets never drawn by the opponent, but you can’t count on this.
I agree on this one.
Thats my point. I recently got to test against Skred Red, which is kinda the extreme case of Blood Moon hosing. What it basically meant: The cases, on which Blood Moon comes down were increased very much and you had to deal with multiple copies of Blood Moon. So in reality, you were Blood Mooned all the time. I fetched for basics right from the beginning, but Blood Moon was still annoying as hell, since you can only play 1 to max 2 spells each turn (you will have 1 of each colour in basic in the best case)
In this situation you really feel the mana requirements this decks has to fulfill, and even in my non greedy list, its terribly hard with Blood Moon out. With basics out, you can still play things, but Blood Moon added more or less a free Rule of Law to it.
This cards seems actually interesting and exciting, looking forward to test on this.
Hi everyone, I am fairly new to the variant (I had built it once before but within a week, my backpack got stolen out of my truck and I had to rebuild my modern collection from scratch). Luckily I struck pretty big over the last 6 months or so on speculations (example: I played BW Eldrazi starting in December and bought in for $65. Sold off all my Eldrazi pieces fist week of Feb for $400 which let me buy back into this). Anyway I have a tournament report from last night as well as a decklist I'd like opinions on here in a second, but first I'm going to respond to some of the quote/conversation. I think Heir has potential to be alright but I am a bit drawn aback on 2 fronts. If it was a 1cmc creature, it'd make for a delver replacement in black. This means we might have been able to do a Mardu style delverish list. As it stands I am unsold unless madness is a real thing. The reason they capped the discard is so that you can't just discard again if someone responds to the trigger (not to mention letting you get multiple madness cards in a turn). He is supposed to be an aggro piece for Standard since you already have a 2R madness haster to discard when you flip him on turn 3. I don't think he belongs in our lists though.
Ok so my decklist. It's still a total work in project, what I would like to specify is that I'm pushing my curve higher and would like to be essentially a control deck rather than a midrange deck. Inadvertently, this means I have a TON of tokens over creatures in the list but I am unsure if that is actual direction I want to end up. My sideboard is total hodgepodge as well. I do want to add Liliana of the Veils to the list eventually but I don't know where she would end up in the list (not to mention I'd have to buy her).
Ok without further ado:
2x Kalitas Traitor of Ghet
2x Soulfire Grandmaster
Instants(12):
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lighting Helix
1x Terminate
Sorcery(13):
3x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
4x Painful Truths
Enchantment(3):
3x Bitterblossom
Planeswalker(4):
1x Ajani Vengeant
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4x Shambling Vents
1x Vault of the Archangel
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Windswept Heath
2x Verdant Catacombs
3x Godless Shrine
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Blood Crypt
2x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
4x Cackling Doom
1x Outpost Siege
1x Chandra Pyromaster
2x Vandalblast
1x Disenchant
1x Damnation
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Tournament Report (30 players):
Round 1 Infect(0-2)[0-1]:
This was my friend and we had done a lot of playtesting just before the start of the tournament. Since we were both very aware of what each other were on, it greatly affected our Game 1 plays. I had an opener with a bolt and a bitterblossom on a mull to 6. He dropped a turn 2 Spellskite however and followed it up with a turn 3 Blighted Agent. I was unable to draw another removal spell that could kill the spellskite in the 2 turns it took him to kill me. I did have lethal damage set up (thanks to Sorin, Solemn Visitor) if he didn't topdeck another pump spell. He did and that was it. Game 2 was much better. I was whittling him down with Lingering Souls and Bitterblossom tokens when he finally found a blighted agent. He swings and pumps into my Cackling Doom (I had left 2 extra mana open in case of spell pierce). He had a Dispel instead. He was tapped out (aside from 2 Inkmoth Nexus) and he was at 7, I had 7 guys out. All I needed to do was draw a bolt/helix effect and I'd have lethal on the swing (regardless of his spellskite since he'd be unable to pay the 2 life). Unfortunately I hit a land and he hit me for lethal with the blighted agent on the crackback. It was strange how few bolt/kill spells I drew in both of these games and he found Blighted agent both times. I still like this matchup because Lingering Souls/Bitterblossom make life miserable for them.
Round 2 Jund (2-0)[1-1]:
Both of these games were long and grindy.. just as we like it. I can't remember too many specifics of either game other than Painful Truths being an absolute monster in both games. I hit over the course of both games and he hit 2 Bobs. He netted 1 actual card off both Bobs each game and in game 2 his Bob betrayed him (He was at 13, bob flipped Kalitas taking him to 9. I had 4 Fairy/Spirits out, I played Sorin and cracked in for 8 and he flipped an IoK for the game). This is one of those matchups I think I'll do very well and are the matchups I look forward to winning the most.
Round 3 Bant Coco Humans (2-1)[2-1]:
This kind blatantly made kind of a jank bant human coco deck. Game 1 I had enough spot removal and a Bitterblossom to get me there (right when he felt like he was stabilizing, I dropped Elspeth and he couldn't find an answer). Game 2 I kept a hindsight greedy hand with 3 3cmc spells (cackling doom, Timely Reinforcements and Lingering Souls). He played a T1 Heirarch, Turn 2 Champion of the Parish x2 and a T3 Thalia. The Thalia was what doomed me because my topdecks were 2 more lingering souls and a land. Game 3 my opening hand was Bolt, Bolt, Path, Path, Bitterblossom, Fetch, Fetch... yeah I won that game. He was slowly chaining nonsense together (Coco'd into 2x E-witt to get back 2 coco's... coco again to find an Ewit and Reflector Mage, get back coco). But I had an army of Fairies, Souls when he had his team at ~3 power with Gavony Township, I dropped Elspeth. he was unable to keep up with the steady stream of blockers and Elspeth eventually found her Ult. He had to pump with Gavony to clear my last few blockers but I sacrificed Elspeth to clear his board after that. My stream of 3/3 Fairies did the work from there.
Round 4 UW Control (0-2)[2-2]:
I can't wait til Eldrazi is out of the format so this decklist won't be as evil against me. Both games he got 3x Spreading Seas on my lands. I still almost ground out the games against him but between Spreading Seas and MB 4x GQ to keep me off manlands, the control mirror gets pretty difficult. After Eldrazi goes, they won't be running near as much land hate and the matchup could get immensely better. Bitterblossom did a TON of work here as I got it out T2 both games. Supreme Verdicts only do so much. One disappointing note about these two long games, I drew 0 Painful Truths which I feel are a must draw in the control matchup.
All in all it felt good for a first run. Both my losses were partially luck of the draw based and weren't blowouts so that is good. I am debating Chandra or Outpost Seige in the sideboard. The + on Chandra is very relevant at times (allowed me to kill a Kalitas and Liliana with a Bolt against Jund.. talk about feel bad moments for your opponent when they opted not to + Lili) but she is easier to remove than Outpost Siege. I also really need to work out a sideboard plan for common matchups. I tend to take out the MB discard a lot since most of the spot removal is still live against other matchups. Anyway, any input would be greatly appreciated and I really like this variants chances to rise in popularity and success now that the deck isn't severely at risk of dying to infinite 1/4's on turn 4 (where bolt and Helix felt really bad)
Liliana of the Veil is in my opinion also the key to the UW Control matchup. Without Liliana, I think one will have a hard time playing Mardu, I personally can't imagine playing without her.
As for painful truths, I don't like it, said it a couple times already, its a complete tempoloss for me, I see its appeal in grindy matchups, but still you lose permission and life by playing it. If heading for the control route, this is controversial in my opinion. Dark Confidant is the card I would put in that spot. Painful truths can also be a budget replacement though.
My problem with Kommand is that I don't have a ton of creatures as it is, so one of the better modes on the card is essentially dead.
Liliana will definitely slot in when I get her though. I totally agree that she is a monster in the control Mirror. She is next on my buylist but at $100+ a pop.. I gotta wait a minute to get her.
As for more discard, I am just not entirely sure that 1 more will do a whole lot. Essentially I am either taking out removal or sitting at 5 discard spells. Kommand could potentially come in to cover both grounds I guess. The Infect matchup was really just bad luck. He knew to delay the Blighted Agent til after spellskite because he knew what I was playing and somehow I drew a single bolt for removal the entire game. It was pretty unlucky. The second game I wasn't expecting dispel but I had used several removal spells before that (and he had to chump with a Inkmoth Nexus in order not to die on the next swing. I'm surprised I lost it too.
As for Bob vs Painful Truth. I upped my curve a bit and think Bob would likely kill me too much. Top that off with the fact he can be removed and gain me 0 extra cards... I don't really like that. The main reason I want the Truths is to draw me extra cards. It can be a tempo loss but so far I haven't experienced that as an issue. The abundance of 1 drop removal spells has let me draw cards and have removal open on turn 4 without worry. I don't care as much about tempo as much as I care about controlling the board.
If you have Bob, Kolaghan's Command becomes also more viable though.
The number of discard spells is preference. I personally like them very much and I play 7 for that reason. That is also a small issue. I think the main one is that you don't have Liliana. Unfortunately this is the most expensive issue as well.
Lili is also the thing I'm totally onboard adding once I get the funds as well. My goal is to not tap out (even for Bob) for the first several turns. Use those turns to remove threats from field or hand with discard and removal. Turns 4-6 I want to cast Painful Truths to be able to refill my hand and play a threat. I then close the game out from there. The only exception to that idea is usually Bitterblossom which can come down turn 2 and some decks REALLY struggle at finding an answer for it. The 1/1 Fliers just take over the game at that point (There were several turns where the UW control deck couldn't animate Colonnade and swing (well he could in theory) because it would just get blocked by a 1/1 fairy every turn and leave him tapped out. (I do remember I essentially had him in a particularly rough place where he was 2 mana short of casting Supreme Verdict and animating Colonnade to knock Elspeth down to 1. And I had a Kalitas in play to gain back some of my rapidly depleting life. EOT he had to double path his own two tokens he had left. He verdicted, animate and swing. I cast a second Kalitas I had in hand. He verdicted again animated and killed Elspeth. After that I was low enough that he used snap verdict to clear my board once more and then lethal me in the air.... sometimes your opponent just has all the answers (like board clearing 3 turns in a row so you don't kill them).
@ Exatraz Besides that, I agree on Indormi that your manabase is really painful. Also, since mentioned, Rest in Peace should be in your Sideboard, it drastically improves your UW Control matchup as well (you won't be supreme verdicted 3 times in a row, like you told) and this card is one reason white has one of the most powerful Sideboard options. I would also replace Disenchant by Wear // Tear or Hide // Seek, whatever you like more. Generally speaking, you maybe have to rework your sideboard accordingly.
TLDR: Scrubbed out in round 9 dropping to 5-4. MVPs were Kalitas, Discard suite, Lingering Souls, Olivia, and great sideboard cards. LVPs: Kolaghan's Command, Smoldering Marsh, Budgets, bad play, and Lightning Helix.
Full Report:
Head to the GP and catch up with the guys from my LGS and we're feeling good about our decks, prepped and ready after a Friday full of gauntlet testing. We have a diverse group of decks including Storm, Fish, Azorious Titan, and even Mill. Not the most hyper competitive bunch but we're feeling good. I decide to splurge for the second Kolaghan's Command I've been failing to trade for and get gouged 35 Australian for it. Ohh well worth it with a field full of affinity out there to matchup against. Registered the following decklist.
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
1 Smoldering Marsh
1 Godless Shrine
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Shambling Vent
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Swamps
3 Plains
2 Mountain
10 Creatures
1 Soulfire Grand Master
3 Dark Confidant
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Olivia Voldaren
10 Sorcery
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Terminate
2 Lightning Helix
2 Crackling Doom
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Wear//Tear
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Wrath of God
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Lightning Helix
1 Crackling Doom
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Painful Turths
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Rest in Peace
Sideboard
In: Kalitas, Helix, Fulminator, Timely Out: 4 Thoughtseize
Round 2: 2-1 vs Coco GB elves. Lose game one after mis-assessing what his deck was trying to do. I focused on mana denial only to get blown out by a Coco for the 3 mana lose life for each elf card. Game 2 is very tight. I slow him down a bit by killing two mana dorks with a persecution, but he gets me down to 3 before I stabilize behind Kalitas and SFGM. Game three I disrupt him before starting to kill off his mana dorks and running away with the game via Chandra, Pryomaster. Mulled to 6 all three games, but the deck has a lot of card advantage to recover from it. Lingering Souls was great this game chumping to keep me alive and providing a clock in game three.
Sideboard
In: Chandra, Helix, Timely, Wrath, Prison, Persecution Out: 2 IoK, 2 Doom, 2 Confidant
Round 3: 2-0 vs UW Eldrazi. Game 1 is a slog. He keeps a slow hand and I manage to thoughtseize a Drowner just before it will come out. I eventually grind it out with souls and point some bolts at his face to finish game 1 off. Game two is an ugly low resource game. I mull to 5 him to four. He leads with a temple and passes. I go turn 1 thoughtseize and see another temple a TKS and a Skyspawner. Take the TKS and he slams another one that he scryed to the top. He sees Terminate, Path, and Lingering Souls. Takes the terminate to try to force me to give him his colored mana. I play souls take 4 and then rip a terminate the next turn. He never draws colored mana and I run away with it.
Sideboard
In: Fulminator, Wrath, Crackling Doom, Zealous Persecution Out: 2 Helix, 2 Kommand.
Round 4: 2-1 vs Ad Nauseum. The nightmare. A non interactive combo deck and I don't have Lili to properly pressure his hand. Not looking good. I manage to steal game 1 when he doesn't find an angel's grace or phyrexian unlife after chaining 4 cantrips together. Game two he slams a turn zero Leyline of Sanctity and I can't pressure fast enough with Dark Confidant. Game 3 He cantrips into turn 1 double Lotus Bloom. I'm resigned to my fate before I see my draw step. Stony Silence off the top! I'm alive! A few turns later I haven't found a clock faster than SFGM and he's still on one land. Then second land, cast echoing truth on Stony Silence. I just ask if I'm dead. Expecting to be dead. Resigned to 3-1. He pops lotus and drops Leyline of Sanctity. And I breathe a sigh of relief. Replay Stoney and add a Lingering Souls to the board.
At this point I'm on top of the world. I had set my goal at making day 2 and was thrilled to be in a positon where I just needed two wins in 5 rounds to get there. Was on top of the world at this point.
Round 5: 1-2 vs UW Time Warp. Actually worse than the nightmare. Here even my Thougtseizes aren't going to slow him down as his deck is much more redundant than Ad Naus, and it's much more a critical mass deck. Plus he has Paths, Superme Verdict, Timely Reinforcments, and Elixer of Immortality main. Game 1 is a slaughter. Just a slaughter. He chains about 8 turns in a row before trying to kill me with an awakened Part the Waterveil which gets terminated to he adibules to a Jace Beleren ultimate plan. Ughh... Game two I steal as I have Wear/Tear for his only Dicatate/Howling Mine and he kept a time walk heavy hand. Game three is just a disaster. I have almost no pressure and he quickly assembles enough mine effects to draw 4 a turn.
Sideboard
Out: 4 Path, 3 Terminate
In: Anything that can attack of deal damage to face.
Round 6: 1-2 vs UW Eldrazi. Don't remember the first two game very clearly but we split them. The third game is the game that is most interesting to me of the entire GP. I keep a 7 that is Blood Crypt, Smoldering Marsh, 2 Thoughtseize, Bob, Lingering Souls, and Wrath of God on the draw. I have no clue if this keep is correct. It has my best sideboard card in the mathcup in Wrath and Lingering Souls which is great. But I have no white mana. In retrospect I've decided I should have mulliganed but I think that may be results oriented thinking. Anyway being punished for Smoldering Marsh I lead off with it as I have little choice. If it's a second Blood Crypt I definitely lead off with a turn 1 thoughtseize. He plays a turn two mimic and I draw another white card. I tank and eventually decide to thoughtseize before playing my Blood Crypt to decide if I want to cast both. I see a Path, 2 Skyspawners, and a third land. I tank some more and decide that my line will be to take the path and lean on Bob to draw me mana. I play the Blood Crypt tapped and pass. He draws and plays a displacer off the top. I draw a Young Pyro and now desperate for a land run out Bob. He plays a Skyspawner and smashes. I don't block. Flip a lingering souls, draw a Shambling Vent and have no play expect Young Pyro and the game is pretty much over. I have no idea how I should have played this one. I think once I cast the thoughtseize it's correct to take the Path as I can't play Bob that turn anyway. But I could very well have been wrong to not just run him out in the first place. Anyway I'm now 4-2 and tilting a bit, and didn't write down sideboarding notes from here on out. Believe that I sideboard the same as the previous Eldrazi.
Round 7: 0-2 R/G Scapeshift. I get smashed game 1. He has a great ramp draw going Search into STE into Explore into lethal Scapeshift. I had no discard to pressure his hand out of threats. Game two I still had no discard but I had an aggressive pyromancer souls draw. Unfortuately I punted the game and the tilt became real. I didn't play properly around scapeshift. I had him at 8 with pryo and two 1/1's. I had a Vent I could attack with or a helix I could attack with. I attacked with the vent to go to 18 life rather than a helix to go to 19. If I had Helix'd I would have had a path so if he cast Inferno Titan I could spawn an extra elemental and still attack for lethal with the token and Vent and I would have been out of scapeshift range as he only had 6 lands in play at the time. Instead I died to Scapeshift for 18 damage thanks to attack with the vent. I probably still would have been disadvantaged in game three but if I had drawn discard I would have had a shot. So I titled super hard at this point. Knowing I threw away a game win and dropped to knife's edge at 4-3.
Round 8: 2-1 vs Jund Hakkon Dredge. These were some long drawn out awesome games of magic. Kalitas and SFGM were the maindeck MVPs. Kalitas for exiling reasons and SFGM as I bought back several bolts. Almost stole game one but he dropped two creatures late in the game and recurred four Vengevines. Just a little too much damage that late in the game. Games two and three game down to sticking Kalitas in one Olivia in the other and resolving Stony Silence around Abrupt Decay. Ghostly Prison was super key in one to stop a fast Lotleth Troll Vengevine draw. My opponent misplayed later in that game casting Damnation with Kalitas out, giving me two Zombies to finish the game off.
Round 9: 0-2 vs UW Control. Story of this game is I was punished for not having Liliana. Plain and simple. Without her I have no way to pressure through their countermagic and wraths. He had enough removal that he was comfortable spending a supreme verdict on just a dark confidant, and drew enough cards that he powered through a rest in peace to shut down Snaps, baby Jace, and Ojutai's Commands.
Anyway I was shattered. Went 4-0 and finished 1-4. Really tough pill swallow after the great start. So what am I taking away in terms of what I could do better. Definitely would have had a better result with Lili, played 4 of 9 matchups against effectively creatureless (UW timewalk and control, Ad Naus, and scapeshift) decks. Going 1-3 in those matchups really sunk me. Having 9 completely dead cards is so bad. Playing tighter would have given me a really good shot at day 2. Would have had a game three vs RG scapeshift with a 40ish% chance to get my 15th point there. Also matchup luck could have gone much better for me. Facing Eldrazi twice and with chances to win both matches felt good and playing a third time wouldn't have been the worst. But I think I got very unluckly by not running into Affinity which was the second most common archetype of the day anecdotally and just checking the top 100 day 1 decks on coverage. Affinity is a great matchup for Mardu and not seeing it really hurt me this tournament.
Card specific takeaways:
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is the real deal. If I had mana to cast him drawing him felt great. Against any fair deck he is so much value and against unfair graveyard decks he is the best draw in your deck. Olivia is good too, but she has been a little more matchup dependent in my experience.
Lingering Souls is the best card in the deck. Maybe if I had Lili it would be her, but I don't and it's souls.
1 mana discard is so good and gives you a shot even in nominally horrible matchups. Punishes Eldrazi hard given that they are a heavy mulligan deck.
Young Pyromancer scares opponents. People were as reluctant to allow Peezy to survive as Bob. I haven't played anywhere near as much with Abbot or Pack Rat as I have with Peezy, but I am still firmly convinced that Pyromancer is great in this deck.
Kolaghan's Command is a powerful card. And did win me one game by regrowthing a Young Pyro. But this is not the meta for it. If you hit your affinity matchups that are expected it's great, but it's not common enough and that matchup is great anyway. Dust it back off once control isn't planeswalkers and is Tron again.
My sideboard was mostly awesome for me. Everything came in at least once. Chandra saw the least only coming in against elves (was too tilted to bring it against UW control). Ghostly Prison, Stony Silence, and Rest in Peace all came close to single handedly won game. The second Kalitas was great. The sketchiest looking card is probably Painful truths. It came in twice against UW control and Dredge. Never drew it but it would have been solid in both those matchups. Also liked having it available against potential Jund matchups.
I ran a bunch of basics expecting a ton of land hate but didn't see Blood Moon once. Heard there were a fair number of them running around though.
Anyway I had a great time, didn't meet my goal but I came close. And I'm proud of that. And the squad from my store did really well. With all of us alive at round 8, and 2 of the squad making it day 2.
Last couple of points. I think Mardu Midrange is great and well positioned if you have Liliana's. Without them you're going to be soft to the control decks that are tuning themselves to beat the fast eldrazi draws. If budget weren't an issue going forward I would push 1 Crackling Doom to the board, the other out entirely, and shave a creature probably the SFGM for three Lili's in the main. Would cut the third Helix from the board to accommodate the extra Doom (Helix would come back if the eldrazi meance does eat a ban) as I as cutting Helix very often. SFGM would be a toss up with Timely for a sideboard slot wasn't impressed by it. Too hard to get both modes active. Lastly I'd go to 3 Pyro 4 Bob.
So non budget changes would be +2 fetches -2 basics, -2 Crackling Doom -1 SFGM +3 Liliana's. Sideboard -1 Helix, -1 Timely, +1 Crackling Doom, +1 SFGM.
One last time I think the deck is awesome and I think if I'd had Lili's I would be playing right now instead of typing this up. The deck is strong, and strong right now.
Edit: Added some spoiler tags as this was too long a post to be weildly for people scrolling through.
That last part is very relevant to anyone thinking about running this deck without discard (and I absolutely think of Lilly as part of the discard suite, moreso than Kommand, though she does a lot more than just discard). Without the discard package, esp Lilly, you basically don't have a reliable road to victory against most spell-based decks, and in those same matchups when you follow a discard spell with a lilly you often basically win.
How do you guys deal with decks that just "go off" like Scapeshift and Storm? Just attack their hand to get the pieces they need?
And the very aggressive decks like Boogles/Hexproof, Infect and affinity? How are they?
I must say that this type of deck looks very good on paper. But why is it less than 0.5% of the meta? (According to mtggoldfish/mtgpulse/mtgtop8)
Discard is very cucial to this deck, I also stated that out a couple times, so I agree with you. Also on Lili, without her I feel the deck is not competitive enough, or even not at all.
Yes, one thing is our discard spell package which is very important, so disrupting opponent's gameplans by discard is one point. But against specific matchups we have some essential tools to disrupt them.
As for Scapeshift, I gotta say, its a tough matchup. Since we are white, we have lifegain which comes in handy though. Against this matchup we have to save life by fetching accordingly, discard helps as well, but it still is tough in my opinion. I am also not that experienced regariding that matchup, so maybe someone else can share some thoughts on that one.
Against Storm,we have SB options like Rest in Peace, which will hose their Desperate Ravings and Past in Flames or Pyromancer Ascension strategies. If we have Rest in Peace, we have much more time to take the game over. Lifegain comes in as well, so all in all, Storm will have a tough time comboing off while Rest in Peace is on the board.
Generally speaking, non creatures strategies are non favourable Game 1, since we have a lot of dead removal in our deck. After sideboarding, we are capable of adjust to that a bit. But one of the key issues regarding these matchups is proper decision making, you gotta know what do to, fetch accordingly and work your way up to the win.
Regarding Aggro Matchups, like Infect, Affinity and Bogles, they are all favourable for us. (except for Eldrazi, that deck is broken) We do have access to the best removal spells in Modern, as well as Lingering Souls, therefore Infect will have a hard time in general, we just remove every creature they have and discard important cards they want to have in order to protect their creatures. Same goes for Affinity, although discard is less valuable here, since they dump their hand pretty fast. Game 1 is winnable pretty easily, I would say, and in game 2 we have Stony Silence to get ahead.
For the Bogles matchup we are basically keen on cards like Liliana of the Veil or Crackling Doom. Discard would surely help as well, we can possibly discard their one and only creature they have and we can build up our board from that state on.
Side question: What does everyone thing of the new Archangel Avacyn / Avacyn, the Purifier in our lists? I am currently torn, I think it has a lot of potential as a combat trick and beater, but I i'm not hot on 5 drops with Bob plus when it flips it kills almost everything else on our board.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
Also I don't like the mana requirements, she might be a nice beater, but for that mana and for that purpose I rather play a Baneslayer Angel I think. I like the Flash ability though.
I am sorry, I don't get that actually, so I have to ask, why does she flip 4 times because of 4 Lingering Tokens that died? And why would that mean 6 dmg?
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
This archetype is fairly new since it's "most recent" major debut last month at PT OGW piloted by Ben Stark.
As a result, folks aren't really sold on it's competitiveness just yet and will probably opt for Jund (Tier 1) or maybe Abzan (Tier 2) as their go to Midrange poster boys.
Until someone finds the perfect list so that Mardu can begin to put up consistent results at major events, people--a majority of the time--will continue to invest in a build that is already tried and tested.
BGW ABZAN WGB
BGR JUND RGB
As for competitiveness, for me, Mardu is lacking maybe one really good card that it can be compareable to Jund or Abzan. Both Abzan and Jund just have Tarmogoyf to be able to close games very fast, if intended. As for now, Mardu operates on a different level, we are griendier, tend to be slower, and we do have the option for going big and wide. Therefore, Mardu can be played as a Control deck quite nicely, Midrange is just not yet the best option in my opinion.
Paul Rietzl and Ben Stark both played this deck during the PT, because they were excpecting many aggro-ish decks like Infect and Affinity. If that would have been the actual case (It kinda was, both decks were fairly present) the deck would have gotten more spotlight on, than it actual got. What I personally hated about the PT, was that the match featured with Ben Stark, was shifted after G1 to the "more interesting" Eldrazi matchup, so thats one of the reasons Eldrazi was so incredibly hiped through that tournament. Therefore Mardu just didn't quite appear in peoples discussion topics. Unfortunately, Mardu is, like many other archetypes, not really capable of beating Eldrazi, at least not with the list Ben Stark and Paul Rietzl piloted. (and there is not really a good list by now either) All in all, thats why we have yet to be discovered, and will remain an underdog deck for now, but under the correct meta, we surely could shine, but not with this Eldrazi archetype in my opinion.
EDIT: We can see some progress going on though, since we were promoted to Developing Competitive lately