Threads topic: Im going to re-post this here (from the Grixis Control thread).
«Tough call.
If we take for example the most recent lists that have been posted here and on there, some URb Moon decks are clearly overlapping with Grixis Control. Disallowing their discussion over there seems counter-productive to me. I think I'd rather see us merged in a thread named smtg like «URx/Grixis Control» [note: not Ultimatum].
At the end of the day, Moon and Shackles are just cards. The general strategy of UR Moon, Temur Moon (splash Goyf) and Grixis Control (splash black Goyf) are similar. Metagame calls can and will lead players to put aside Blood Moon or Vedalken Shackles for a time period but these decks are all still going to play a URx Control game. No?»
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Do you guys think that Moon variants (that maindeck bloodmoon) will be viable strategies for GP Charlotte? I am predominantly a control player (UWr/UWb), but have always been a huge fan of UR/URg Moon. I am just skeptical as to if the metagame is in the right place for a Moon deck to actually be successful at a big event. Though, the URb variant seems to be decently positioned.
I've been playing a Grixis version (pretty close to Jessup's list. I want to try out GftT and Roast over Terminate) and it's actually been pretty good. I haven't played it enough to note any concrete differences with the Terminate version, but it's been nice being able to cast a couple removal spells under a Blood Moon.
I have been playing URg, and it just feels underwhelming. I like that grixis has more card advantage throughout the list. @TFSS If you were to make a sideboard for a meta consisting only of twin/tron/infect/BGx/burn, what would be in it? Also, how do you feel about the lavamancer in Jessup's MD? Is it only there to filter the yard T`gur activations?
@up: terminate is just as easy to cast as go for the throat under the blood moon almost always, and I think we can afford to run terminates (im playing 6 islands/no colorless lands/23 lands setup), which is just a better card compared to roast. I'm currently splitting terminates and cuts 2/1, cause I don't want all my removal spells to be weak vs spell snare, plus 2 terminates jammed in your hand isn't something you want to see.
I generally agree, though there are times when you have to go Steam Vents (or Blood Crypt)->Island->Island->Blood Moon, which makes me happy to have Roast. It's actually been pretty good for me.
I played a few games today, and I think that running Terminate is the correct call. There were few times when I went Island->Swamp with no fetch or shock to get me RB.
I have been playing URg, and it just feels underwhelming. I like that grixis has more card advantage throughout the list. @TFSS If you were to make a sideboard for a meta consisting only of twin/tron/infect/BGx/burn, what would be in it? Also, how do you feel about the lavamancer in Jessup's MD? Is it only there to filter the yard T`gur activations?
I don't play the Grixis Version but Lavamancer is an insane card. It's probably better in the side but depending on the meta, I could see it main. I'm very curious where you get more card advantage from Grixis versus RUG. I suggest RUG only because Tarmogoyfs are great, but I've been playing straight UR.
That isn't to say that Grixis isn't a great deck, I just don't see what all the extra card advantage is from.
The extra card advantage stems from Tasigur (who will start getting you cards late game, especially if you can delve cards you don't want) and Kolaghan's Command (when recurring Snapcaster is bonkers). Both are incredibly powerful cards that can put you up over your opponent.
Hey guys..
I have one player in my local meta that plays angel prison and a different one that plays boggles.
What would you say our match up looks like against these decks..?
Also, Is it silly to play a 1 of rain of gore in the side if I know there are a number of soul sisters / abzan midrange / boggles decks in my meta?
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Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan Legacy: RG Lands EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
Hey guys..
I have one player in my local meta that plays angel prison and a different one that plays boggles.
What would you say our match up looks like against these decks..?
Also, Is it silly to play a 1 of rain of gore in the side if I know there are a number of soul sisters / abzan midrange / boggles decks in my meta?
I don't know much about the prison deck, so I will just comment on the Bogles matchup. I think its slightly in our favor. We have multiple ways to stop them early: spellskite, blood moon (the meta list only runs 2 basics), and cheap counter magic to keep their creatures small enough, buying time for us to either slam blood moon, or put up a road block with T'gur (or goyf if youre playing the URg list). However, on the play it is very possible for them to just outspeed us. 1 drop followed by ethereal armor + rancor turn 2 is almost an assured win. If you are on the URb list, then you could side some edict effects, but watch out for fetch land into dryad arbor.
Edit: Rain of Gore is very narrow. While it may be good against soul sisters, it is pretty mediocre against everything else. Anger of the Gods and Volcanic Fallout are both blowouts against soul sisters, and are useful in aggro matchups (zoo, merfolk, affinity etc).
So, as GP Charlotte grows nearer, I have decided to lock myself in on playing a moon variant for the event. It may be too early to tell, but which version do you guys think will be most optimal for the event? It may be too early to tell, and hopefully the SCG Invi will give us a better look at the current metagame, but if you guys had to go strictly based off of what we know up to this point what would you play? I am personally loving the URb list, but miss the consistency of the UR list.
As for other questions:
What matchups do you guys bring in Ashiok for? Do you think that there is anything better suited to take its place?
Would there ever be a time where you would consider playing thoughtsieze somewhere in the 75?
Lastly, as I only have experience against a few decks in the metagame, what are our absolute worst matchups?
@TFSS I like the Young Pyromancer idea+discard idea, and will definitely give it some testing. It just seems to me like the deck would be more prone to stumbling if you open/draw multiple discard spells in the late game. Also, the synergy with bloodmoon isn't really there. I think a shell like that would have more of a home in a URb delvery deck.
@WitlessWizard Tec edge won't really do much since its not live until at least turn 4, and in straight UR you are often slamming moon on turn 3. Also, most lists play spreading seas.
The more discussion that goes on, the more I realize how many different ways there are to approach a deck like this. Tfss and I like very different game plans. He's a lot more proactive and looks for raw power and answers and I'm a lot more reactive. This leads me to believe everyone should be trying their own way to make decks like this their own style.
However, serums visions is pretty Much one of the best things you can be doing and let's you keep a ton more hands, its always a great topdeck,as well as being a good snapcaster target. And on that side note, I strongly feel 4 snapcaster and at least 2 clique are necessary as creatures.
I feel like its safe to assume that there will be a lot of Kolaghan's Commands in the room at GP Charlotte. Is it still worth playing shackles in the maindeck? What other things could we add in their place?
I feel like its safe to assume that there will be a lot of Kolaghan's Commands in the room at GP Charlotte. Is it still worth playing shackles in the maindeck? What other things could we add in their place?
Shackles is such a high impact card in the deck, I understand the concern playing it main though. Honestly it's at the point now where you need to play a high impact threat if you're not playing shackles. I can see keeping them main as Kolaghan's Command is very hyped but likely won't show up as often as you think, but I'm currently thinking of swapping in my deck:
Also, since a lot of decks will side out card like bolt and dismember and bring in cards like abrupt decay, I would recommend playing Sower's in the board. They have been insane for me.
I'm currently on the Grixis list and have Tasigurs in the main. I don't feel like the deck can just drop shackles, as it is so important to the decks strategy, but it might be necessary? I may end up tweaking the deck to something closer to Grixis control with sided blood moons, but I really like my blood moons.
Is there any reason we don't play all snow lands and skred? Seems better than roast! Could also play a swan or 2 but that's 100% way too cute its be a board card
Here is MTGGoldfish's top 50 creatures played in Modern. For comparison purposes of Flame Slash vs Roast, let's just focus on the ones that have 4 or more toughness i.e. cant be dealt with by bolt.
Creature that Flame Slash can cover that Roast cannot:
#35 Restoration Angel.
How is the burn matchup? I have managed to dodge it up until this point. At first glance it seems like a race that might be 50-50 game 1, and in our favor game 2. Basically, I am asking if we need to allocate side board slots for burn outside of dispells.
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«Tough call.
If we take for example the most recent lists that have been posted here and on there, some URb Moon decks are clearly overlapping with Grixis Control. Disallowing their discussion over there seems counter-productive to me. I think I'd rather see us merged in a thread named smtg like «URx/Grixis Control» [note: not Ultimatum].
At the end of the day, Moon and Shackles are just cards. The general strategy of UR Moon, Temur Moon (splash Goyf) and Grixis Control (splash black Goyf) are similar. Metagame calls can and will lead players to put aside Blood Moon or Vedalken Shackles for a time period but these decks are all still going to play a URx Control game. No?»
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Thanks for the heads up!
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
I generally agree, though there are times when you have to go Steam Vents (or Blood Crypt)->Island->Island->Blood Moon, which makes me happy to have Roast. It's actually been pretty good for me.
I played a few games today, and I think that running Terminate is the correct call. There were few times when I went Island->Swamp with no fetch or shock to get me RB.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
I don't play the Grixis Version but Lavamancer is an insane card. It's probably better in the side but depending on the meta, I could see it main. I'm very curious where you get more card advantage from Grixis versus RUG. I suggest RUG only because Tarmogoyfs are great, but I've been playing straight UR.
That isn't to say that Grixis isn't a great deck, I just don't see what all the extra card advantage is from.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
I have one player in my local meta that plays angel prison and a different one that plays boggles.
What would you say our match up looks like against these decks..?
Also, Is it silly to play a 1 of rain of gore in the side if I know there are a number of soul sisters / abzan midrange / boggles decks in my meta?
Modern: MONKEY GROW & Amulet Titan
Legacy: RG Lands
EDH: Merieke Ri Berit Esper Good stuff
I don't know much about the prison deck, so I will just comment on the Bogles matchup. I think its slightly in our favor. We have multiple ways to stop them early: spellskite, blood moon (the meta list only runs 2 basics), and cheap counter magic to keep their creatures small enough, buying time for us to either slam blood moon, or put up a road block with T'gur (or goyf if youre playing the URg list). However, on the play it is very possible for them to just outspeed us. 1 drop followed by ethereal armor + rancor turn 2 is almost an assured win. If you are on the URb list, then you could side some edict effects, but watch out for fetch land into dryad arbor.
Edit: Rain of Gore is very narrow. While it may be good against soul sisters, it is pretty mediocre against everything else. Anger of the Gods and Volcanic Fallout are both blowouts against soul sisters, and are useful in aggro matchups (zoo, merfolk, affinity etc).
As for other questions:
What matchups do you guys bring in Ashiok for? Do you think that there is anything better suited to take its place?
Would there ever be a time where you would consider playing thoughtsieze somewhere in the 75?
Lastly, as I only have experience against a few decks in the metagame, what are our absolute worst matchups?
@WitlessWizard Tec edge won't really do much since its not live until at least turn 4, and in straight UR you are often slamming moon on turn 3. Also, most lists play spreading seas.
However, serums visions is pretty Much one of the best things you can be doing and let's you keep a ton more hands, its always a great topdeck,as well as being a good snapcaster target. And on that side note, I strongly feel 4 snapcaster and at least 2 clique are necessary as creatures.
Shackles is such a high impact card in the deck, I understand the concern playing it main though. Honestly it's at the point now where you need to play a high impact threat if you're not playing shackles. I can see keeping them main as Kolaghan's Command is very hyped but likely won't show up as often as you think, but I'm currently thinking of swapping in my deck:
-1 Batterskull
-1 Blood Moon
-2 Vedalken Shackles
+4 Tarmogoyf
-3 lands + Forest + Breeding Pool + Stomping Ground
Also, since a lot of decks will side out card like bolt and dismember and bring in cards like abrupt decay, I would recommend playing Sower's in the board. They have been insane for me.