Yea, however I would have thought that destroy artifact/enchantment would have suited our colors more. But I guess things like Golgari Charm are already there for that. I think it will be interesting to see if it holds precedence over Maelstrom Pulse or if both could be run together.
Also, in the same vein of spoiled goodies: Sorin, Solemn Visitor. I don't expect this to played in the deck honestly, but I do really like the card. I think it's weird they chose to make this for Khans, but whatever. I know Elspeth and Garruk are still pretty heavy go-tos, but for a different flair I think either Sorin is fun. Pros and Cons versus playing Lord of Innistrad:
Pros:
Makes bigger tokens, which have flying!
+1 ability lasts not only during your turn but your opponent's turn as well which is interesting.
Ultimate is much better. I have gotten Lord of Innistrad to ultimate capabilities but without any means of using it. I think this emblem can be back breaking against most decks.
Gets to ultimate a turn faster.
Starting loyalty is far out of the reach of bolt.
Un-decayable
Cons:
+1 is kind of meh, but can have a bit of synergy with Lingering Souls and tokens. Takes a little too much set up to be worthwhile.
Although he can make tokens, they come at a somewhat hefty price.
I love Lord of Innistrad's emblem ability. There are few comparable abilities in magic to it, and if you build your deck right it you can stack them and they can take a game all their own.
So, I take back what I said previously about sword of light and shadow. Turns out, you can put it on a fulminator mage, attack with fulminator mage, in response to the sword trigger, sac itself to destroy a land, then get the fulminator mage back and do it again. That's awesome.
Also, new sorin seems plausible. Definitely good if you're playing lingering souls.
Personally, I kinda like the new card spoiled today: utter end. Might be a replacement for pulse? Doubtful, but I've been looking for vindicate replacements in modern, and this is the closest thing to it so far.
That's pretty nuts with fulminator, didn't know you could do that so thanks for the tid bit of advice.
Eh, I would love Utter End if it cost just one less mana. As it stands I would rather use Pulse for the amount of times I've gotten advantage with it. If there is a heavy amount of UWR in your meta then it would be good for dealing with Keranos. Otherwise I'd rather have Path for the threats that need exiling (i.e. Wurmcoil). I see it as a one-of at most in some lists. Sadly I agree that I want a modern Vindicate and that this is probably the closest we'll ever get
So, I take back what I said previously about sword of light and shadow. Turns out, you can put it on a fulminator mage, attack with fulminator mage, in response to the sword trigger, sac itself to destroy a land, then get the fulminator mage back and do it again. That's awesome.
Are you sure that works with Fulminator Mage and Sword of Light and Shadow? I know you can get back a creature that died in combat, but there doesn't seem to be an opportunity to sacrifice the Fulminator Mage before you need to choose targets.
The way I understand it goes like this:
Combat damage step
Unblocked Fulminator Mage (with Sword of Light and Shadow equipped) deals combat damage to defending player. Sword of Light and Shadow triggers (but is not yet put on the stack.)
State-based effects are resolved (creatures with lethal damage on them are put into the graveyard, etc.)
Active player gains priority and chooses a target (or zero targets) for Sword of Light and Shadow's ability in order to put it on the stack.
I don't see an opportunity to sacrifice Fulminator Mage in time to have it in the graveyard as a legal target for the Sword.
So, I take back what I said previously about sword of light and shadow. Turns out, you can put it on a fulminator mage, attack with fulminator mage, in response to the sword trigger, sac itself to destroy a land, then get the fulminator mage back and do it again. That's awesome.
Are you sure that works with Fulminator Mage and Sword of Light and Shadow? I know you can get back a creature that died in combat, but there doesn't seem to be an opportunity to sacrifice the Fulminator Mage before you need to choose targets.
The way I understand it goes like this:
Combat damage step
Unblocked Fulminator Mage (with Sword of Light and Shadow equipped) deals combat damage to defending player. Sword of Light and Shadow triggers (but is not yet put on the stack.)
State-based effects are resolved (creatures with lethal damage on them are put into the graveyard, etc.)
Active player gains priority and chooses a target (or zero targets) for Sword of Light and Shadow's ability in order to put it on the stack.
I don't see an opportunity to sacrifice Fulminator Mage in time to have it in the graveyard as a legal target for the Sword.
Please correct me if i'm wrong.
Eh, actually you're right. I guess someone had implied that you had to had another creature, and I just got excited.
Anybody knows how to deal with the 8-rack deck? Some input could be useful in order not to resolve to a SB of 4 chalice of the void and 4 leyline of sanctity...
Obstinate Baloth, loxodon smiter, and wilt-leaf liege are the best tech. But there are a couple of other cards you can bring in as well: phyrexian Arena, any form of artifact/enchantment destruction, lingering souls if you're not already playing it. You'll want to take out as much as your hand disruption as you can, as anything that either kills them or destroys the rack or shrieking affliction is better than hand disruption. Leave in liliana, though. I find there's quite a few times where liliana getting to 6 can take away their important permanents.
Really, the match up comes down to how well you top deck and your mulligan. You'll want to set top priority to resolving and sticking bob. Against 8 rack, I'd rather keep a terrible 7 card hand than try to mull for a better one most of the time.
@Mastodon: Consider Drown in Sorrow too. It will pick up almost the entire team except a goyf and/or flinthoof boars. Since it is not burn, you will have the time to play it and stabilize. Then ooze will gain you some life, and that's it.
? I'm already playing drown in sorrow. What post are you referring to?
Honestly the way I have beaten 8-rack most often is turn 1 land, turn 2 treetop, turn 3 land and attack with treetop, attack for another 6 turns while you sand bag cards.
Other options are wins off of bob and a goyf. Or the hands that have decays and engineered explosives etc
Side out all your discard and lilianas if it wasn't already obvious
Honestly the way I have beaten 8-rack most often is turn 1 land, turn 2 treetop, turn 3 land and attack with treetop, attack for another 6 turns while you sand bag cards.
Other options are wins off of bob and a goyf. Or the hands that have decays and engineered explosives etc
Side out all your discard and lilianas if it wasn't already obvious
Again, I think leaving in liliana is fine since she can get rid of the permanents in a pinch (and games will be slow enough for that to happen). But I definitely agree that man lands are amazing in this match up. Unless they doom blade it, they can't really stop it, and from there you can just keep all of the cards in your hand until you need to use them.
Another new card: Suspension Field. I'm not sure if it will make the cut, it has the modern flavor of "power/toughness/cmc 3 or..." but toughness 3+ is kind of odd. However, a two mana PtE that doesn't give a land is pretty attractive at first glance. Useful for early removal of goyfs without ramping the opponent (but be wary of Abrupt Decay). The other issue is that it's sorcery speed unlike PtE so it won't hit man-lands typically, I don't really understand why it has so much odd restriction since it's already fragile as an enchantment. In the end I don't think I'm going to even test it but it looked attractive at first.
EDIT: Never mind I forgot Journey to Nowhere exists. This card blows, forget I said anything I am an embarrassment.
Yeah, add to the fact that most decks you would use it against are also likely running abrupt decay to get rid of it. Definitely only premium removal for limited/standard sideboards.
Def. will be testing a token leaning version of this with Abzan Ascendancy. Used to play a pretty good modern Junk token a couple years ago, and this card inspires me with its abilities.
I love your list, and took it as inspiration for my deck, I just wonder, however, what you or anyone else would think of cutting one Garruk Wildspeaker for a Courser of Kruphix?
Pros: life gain, library cleanup, see what's next, resilient body
Cons: A bit on the slow side, opponent sees what you have in stock, body sometimes irrelevant
I sincerely hope we'll see more of Abzan this coming week in order to resume working on this deck!
I personally don't like Courser in this deck. Double green is a little rough early on and I really don't like giving away needless information (that's why I love TS because I want that sweet intel!). But hey, some people over in jund like it so give it a shot.
Thoughts on Siege Rhino...? I honestly can't determine if I find this guy worthwhile or not. I want to refrain from being excited since I'm overly eager to get anything thrown to us.
I personally don't like Courser in this deck. Double green is a little rough early on and I really don't like giving away needless information (that's why I love TS because I want that sweet intel!). But hey, some people over in jund like it so give it a shot.
Thoughts on Siege Rhino...? I honestly can't determine if I find this guy worthwhile or not. I want to refrain from being excited since I'm overly eager to get anything thrown to us.
Might be good in the board, but he costs 4 mana which is pretty slow, even for us. Goyf is a 4/5 most of the time anyway.
Thoughts on Siege Rhino...? I honestly can't determine if I find this guy worthwhile or not. I want to refrain from being excited since I'm overly eager to get anything thrown to us.
I'm in the same boat than you. I was very excited at the beginning, then a bit less for the reasons Mastodon raised. It's a card to watch though, might push in the last points since its EtB effect is quite good.
Otherwise, hopefully we'll get a sweet Abzan charm!
@Avatar, Thanks!! and I'm not sure why you would want to cut Garruk, he is an extremely powerful card and is great in nearly every matchup, courser isn't high impacting enough for me I don't think. If you going to exchange cards then exchange souls for courser, they serve a more similar role, of course if you do that, start playing GBrock instead
Funny, I don't like epic rhino for modern, but I will be trying him for legacy! Simply because I can GSun for him, he has immediate impact in life totals and easily tramples past true name annoyances
Every morning I wake up with both fingers crossed, 1 that they've spoiled the charm and the other that it's good!
Though, the fact they are doing last by a while, is making me raise my expectations more and more! Aahhh!
Abzan Charm
WBG
Instant
Choose one -
- Exile target creature with power 3 or greater.
- You draw two cards and you lose 2 life.
- Distribute two +1/+1 counters among one or two target creatures.
Abzan Charm
WBG
Instant
Choose one -
- Exile target creature with power 3 or greater.
- You draw two cards and you lose 2 life.
- Distribute two +1/+1 counters among one or two target creatures.
Was just going to post about this! I'm pretty excited about it. I don't know if it's as powerful as some of the other charms released in KTK but I'll take it. Exile is relevant and power 3+ isn't the worst restriction. Hell, I path most 3+ so now they won't get a land. Instant speed Sign in Blood is nice. Instant speed two +1/+1 is interesting. For lists that run Kitchen Finks holding on to this card can provide for some interesting combat tricks if Finks has already persisted. I'm not 100% sold but it warrants discussion for sure.
Also, in the same vein of spoiled goodies: Sorin, Solemn Visitor. I don't expect this to played in the deck honestly, but I do really like the card. I think it's weird they chose to make this for Khans, but whatever. I know Elspeth and Garruk are still pretty heavy go-tos, but for a different flair I think either Sorin is fun. Pros and Cons versus playing Lord of Innistrad:
Pros:
Cons:
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
Also, new sorin seems plausible. Definitely good if you're playing lingering souls.
Personally, I kinda like the new card spoiled today: utter end. Might be a replacement for pulse? Doubtful, but I've been looking for vindicate replacements in modern, and this is the closest thing to it so far.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Eh, I would love Utter End if it cost just one less mana. As it stands I would rather use Pulse for the amount of times I've gotten advantage with it. If there is a heavy amount of UWR in your meta then it would be good for dealing with Keranos. Otherwise I'd rather have Path for the threats that need exiling (i.e. Wurmcoil). I see it as a one-of at most in some lists. Sadly I agree that I want a modern Vindicate and that this is probably the closest we'll ever get
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
Are you sure that works with Fulminator Mage and Sword of Light and Shadow? I know you can get back a creature that died in combat, but there doesn't seem to be an opportunity to sacrifice the Fulminator Mage before you need to choose targets.
The way I understand it goes like this:
Combat damage step
Unblocked Fulminator Mage (with Sword of Light and Shadow equipped) deals combat damage to defending player.
Sword of Light and Shadow triggers (but is not yet put on the stack.)
State-based effects are resolved (creatures with lethal damage on them are put into the graveyard, etc.)
Active player gains priority and chooses a target (or zero targets) for Sword of Light and Shadow's ability in order to put it on the stack.
I don't see an opportunity to sacrifice Fulminator Mage in time to have it in the graveyard as a legal target for the Sword.
Please correct me if i'm wrong.
"A Plague on All Your Houses!" - Thespian's Stage Pox
Eh, actually you're right. I guess someone had implied that you had to had another creature, and I just got excited.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Obstinate Baloth, loxodon smiter, and wilt-leaf liege are the best tech. But there are a couple of other cards you can bring in as well: phyrexian Arena, any form of artifact/enchantment destruction, lingering souls if you're not already playing it. You'll want to take out as much as your hand disruption as you can, as anything that either kills them or destroys the rack or shrieking affliction is better than hand disruption. Leave in liliana, though. I find there's quite a few times where liliana getting to 6 can take away their important permanents.
Really, the match up comes down to how well you top deck and your mulligan. You'll want to set top priority to resolving and sticking bob. Against 8 rack, I'd rather keep a terrible 7 card hand than try to mull for a better one most of the time.
? I'm already playing drown in sorrow. What post are you referring to?
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Other options are wins off of bob and a goyf. Or the hands that have decays and engineered explosives etc
Side out all your discard and lilianas if it wasn't already obvious
Modern:
WBG
Legacy:
WBG
Again, I think leaving in liliana is fine since she can get rid of the permanents in a pinch (and games will be slow enough for that to happen). But I definitely agree that man lands are amazing in this match up. Unless they doom blade it, they can't really stop it, and from there you can just keep all of the cards in your hand until you need to use them.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
EDIT: Never mind I forgot Journey to Nowhere exists. This card blows, forget I said anything I am an embarrassment.
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Doomed Traveler, Voice of Resurgence , lingering souls, dark confidant probably the shell. Might make Return to the ranks viable.
I love your list, and took it as inspiration for my deck, I just wonder, however, what you or anyone else would think of cutting one Garruk Wildspeaker for a Courser of Kruphix?
Pros: life gain, library cleanup, see what's next, resilient body
Cons: A bit on the slow side, opponent sees what you have in stock, body sometimes irrelevant
I sincerely hope we'll see more of Abzan this coming week in order to resume working on this deck!
Thoughts on Siege Rhino...? I honestly can't determine if I find this guy worthwhile or not. I want to refrain from being excited since I'm overly eager to get anything thrown to us.
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
Might be good in the board, but he costs 4 mana which is pretty slow, even for us. Goyf is a 4/5 most of the time anyway.
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
I'm in the same boat than you. I was very excited at the beginning, then a bit less for the reasons Mastodon raised. It's a card to watch though, might push in the last points since its EtB effect is quite good.
Otherwise, hopefully we'll get a sweet Abzan charm!
Funny, I don't like epic rhino for modern, but I will be trying him for legacy! Simply because I can GSun for him, he has immediate impact in life totals and easily tramples past true name annoyances
Every morning I wake up with both fingers crossed, 1 that they've spoiled the charm and the other that it's good!
Though, the fact they are doing last by a while, is making me raise my expectations more and more! Aahhh!
Modern:
WBG
Legacy:
WBG
Abzan Charm
WBG
Instant
Choose one -
- Exile target creature with power 3 or greater.
- You draw two cards and you lose 2 life.
- Distribute two +1/+1 counters among one or two target creatures.
Was just going to post about this! I'm pretty excited about it. I don't know if it's as powerful as some of the other charms released in KTK but I'll take it. Exile is relevant and power 3+ isn't the worst restriction. Hell, I path most 3+ so now they won't get a land. Instant speed Sign in Blood is nice. Instant speed two +1/+1 is interesting. For lists that run Kitchen Finks holding on to this card can provide for some interesting combat tricks if Finks has already persisted. I'm not 100% sold but it warrants discussion for sure.
BWGJunkBWG
BRGJundBRG
B1Eldrazi ShopsB1
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
BGMeren of Clan Nel TothBG
BUWJenara, Asura of WarBUW
GURAnimar, Soul of ElementsGUR
Modern Junk Primer
Legacy ANT Primer
L1 Judge
Abzan Walkers
1 Batterskull
3 Lingering Souls
4 Sylvan Caryatid
Planeswalkers: 10
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Gideon Jura
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Liliana of the Veil
Disruption: 7
4 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Removals: 11
4 Path to Exile
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
2 Woodland Cemetery
2 Isolated Chapel
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Beast Within (underrated)
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Wrath of God
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
1 Stain the Mind
1 Fracturing Dust
1 Torpor Orb