@pizz0wn3d, @polunoch: I'm really torn between running Tireless Tracker or Siege Rhino. I'm playing a pretty stock Bobzan list. I have seen both cards in action, but lately I've only been running 2 Rhino's. Flipping Rhino with Bob is really reads "take 1 damage" because when you play it out you are casting Lightning Helix. I'm a bit afraid with all the 3-drops it'll be really hard on us. Additionally trample is often times something really useful when playing the mirror or any other deck with tokens or small creatures. What do you people suggest, drop the Rhino's for Tracker? Go with a 1-1 split? Stick with 2 Rhino's? I like to hear your guys opinion out :).
I'm a huge fan of tracker. I feel like if you flip rhino, you lose half of his value since his lifegain is just offsetting the huge loss of life at that point. At least tireless tracker takes 1 less point of dmg and doesn't draw less cards because you flipped him off Bob. The thing I like about tracker (especially post board), is that when he's in play you basically have no bad top decks, and fetchlands become super good (usually better to wait for removal on tracker before you crack them).
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
I think it's a little dependent on where your priorities are. If you just want raw muscle to close out games, you really can't ask for more than Siege Rhino. If you'd rather lean on burying your opponent in card advantage to win games, Tireless Tracker is where you want to be. At a PPTQ this past weekend I opted for Rhino because my testing led me to feel like my list was fine on card advantage but lacked the power to close out games, especially against chump blockers (I wasn't running Treetop Village). If I was playing Grim Flayer instead of Dark Confidant, I'd be inclined to go for Tracker, but alongside Confidant I've liked Rhino. There's really no wrong answer though, and it largely comes down to personal preference.
I think it's a little dependent on where your priorities are. If you just want raw muscle to close out games, you really can't ask for more than Siege Rhino. If you'd rather lean on burying your opponent in card advantage to win games, Tireless Tracker is where you want to be. At a PPTQ this past weekend I opted for Rhino because my testing led me to feel like my list was fine on card advantage but lacked the power to close out games, especially against chump blockers (I wasn't running Treetop Village). If I was playing Grim Flayer instead of Dark Confidant, I'd be inclined to go for Tracker, but alongside Confidant I've liked Rhino. There's really no wrong answer though, and it largely comes down to personal preference.
I really like the power of Bob+Tracker, I actually play that combination alongside some mana dorks (DRS rather than Hierarch) in Legacy. It works very, very well in that format. I'm not sure that's where I want to be in Modern though, Modern right now strikes me as a format where you want some stronger bodies on the field which is why I like the combination of Rhino+Flayer+Hierarch.
Honestly though, if not for Lingering Souls I would be perfectly content to play pure BG. It's a random and likely bad thought, but I wonder if Ishkanah could compensate for Lingering Souls given enough attention to Delirium.
I appreciate the assistance over my last couple deck iterations. After getting a few rounds in over the week I've come to see how 4 Siege Rhinos is too many. That said, I'm still interested in a Hierarch build, which to me means a Flayer build since the two cards play well together. So here's the next attempt. I've added a few artifacts, an enchantment, and some Glissa's which seem like they would play into this strategy really well.
What's the general consensus on LD in the sideboard? Worth the slots to have something of a chance in the big mana MU? Or use those slots on something more winnable?
I appreciate the assistance over my last couple deck iterations. After getting a few rounds in over the week I've come to see how 4 Siege Rhinos is too many. That said, I'm still interested in a Hierarch build, which to me means a Flayer build since the two cards play well together. So here's the next attempt. I've added a few artifacts, an enchantment, and some Glissa's which seem like they would play into this strategy really well.
Glissa, the Traitor is a personal favorite. With the recent, seeming unpopularity of Lightning Bolt, she seems even better. I played two copies main-deck for many months along with one copy of Executioner's Capsule and another of the latter in the side-board along with a copy of Engineered Explosives. Glissa can do obscene things with either of those artifacts.
Personally, I would want at least one more copy of EE or something similar to abuse with Glissa. I'd probably want another copy of Glissa in a non-traverse build.
The kids who play in big tournaments and on-line may disparage a card like Glissa, but she can work in FNM and she can just win some games for you that you should not have any chance in. She's not scarred of many other creatures; she wins most of the time and the worst she's going to do is tie nearly all of the time. Indestructible is the only keyword you don't want to see on the other side.
Well, protection from B or G is a problem too, but that's hardly a dig on her.
Another small local event (6 people), another quick report before bed. Overall I wasn't impressed w/ the voices in my meta last night, and didn't expect them to be great at this lgs either so I dropped them back out and brought this list tonight:
I ended up going 3-0 tonight, here's another quick recap of my opponents
R1 Soul Sisters: both games started off with discard, pulse, lotv + 4 lands. G1 I IoK his honor of the pure, and pulse his board of 2x ajani pridemate, then follow up w/ LotV. The tempo gain from that alone bought me enough to survive through the land pocket that lasted turns 1-4. G2 I was surprised to see the LotV since I had boarded out 3 of them for 2x tendrils + 1 EE. Oh well, IoK his squadron hawk since he had 2 lands and the rest were 3 drops, and all of my answers line up basically perfectly against his curve.
R2 RG Madcap Ponza. G1 I drop a bob t2 and barely win the game after revealing 2x souls and taking a hit from Stormbreath Dragon over the course of 3 turns. G2 I play LotV to make him sac a BoP after a rocky start, and he untaps, hits his land drop, and drops Thrun. Luckily I had a goyf to wall it off and my topdeck next turn was Blessed Alliance. We stare at each other for a couple turns after that as I'm unable to uptick lily due to an Obstinate Baloth in hand. Eventually I draw a push, and start upticking lily to get us both into topdeck. We both draw trash magic cards for a while (except when he drew Inferno titan to kill Lily, and I untapped and pulsed it), but I'm able to eventually get wide enough around the Thrun to whack him for lethal.
R3 Grishoal Brand. This deck is the entire reason I ran Gaddock Teeg tonight as well. G1 I land a t2 scavenging ooze, t4 lily, and whack him down to 0 while he is unable to assemble breach + fatty and scooby prevents him from using goryo's. G2 I keep a 1 land hand w/ Surgical, and he IoKs me t1 to rip it out of my hand. I proceed to miss a land drop for 3 turns, but he doesn't assemble the combo before I find my 2nd land and untap w/ scooby. G2 Ended w/ Scooby, Bob, and 3 Goyfs in play.
Teeg might actually stick around since he's randomly a card I'm super excited to bring in for matchups around here.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
@pizz0wn3d, @polunoch: I'm really torn between running Tireless Tracker or Siege Rhino. I'm playing a pretty stock Bobzan list. I have seen both cards in action, but lately I've only been running 2 Rhino's. Flipping Rhino with Bob is really reads "take 1 damage" because when you play it out you are casting Lightning Helix. I'm a bit afraid with all the 3-drops it'll be really hard on us. Additionally trample is often times something really useful when playing the mirror or any other deck with tokens or small creatures. What do you people suggest, drop the Rhino's for Tracker? Go with a 1-1 split? Stick with 2 Rhino's? I like to hear your guys opinion out :).
I'm a huge fan of tracker. I feel like if you flip rhino, you lose half of his value since his lifegain is just offsetting the huge loss of life at that point. At least tireless tracker takes 1 less point of dmg and doesn't draw less cards because you flipped him off Bob. The thing I like about tracker (especially post board), is that when he's in play you basically have no bad top decks, and fetchlands become super good (usually better to wait for removal on tracker before you crack them).
Well, in fact, that is not true. Flipping Rhino will cost you 4 life, but when casting it you gain 3 again. So the net effect is: you losing 1 life and your opponent losing 3 life. Where as tracker will cost you 3 life and you don't get immediate value when casting it onto the board. This is really sometimes my strongest argument not to run the card. When you cast it but you gain no value out of it because you either cast it on curve or you cast it mid/late game where you are bricking on lands. It then just sits there as a 3/2 vanilla creature. But again, when you get him going with fetch lands he is very powerful.
Congrats with going 3-0 :). How does 2x Collective Brutality MB feel and do you often bring in Lost Legacy, and if you do how does that one feel like?
Well you should already be sandbagging an extra land anyways to pitch to lily, esp now with our lower curve. Even if you don't, tracker + fatal push give you extra incentive to save fetchlands for revolt/tracker if you don't need the mana. I rarely have to play tireless tracker without a fetch/land in hand. I think in the last 7 rounds, I've had to do it once.
CB is pretty great in the mb imo, it's a holdover from playing it in BG, and works pretty well with LS, particularly when you don't have white mana. Legacy was just for grishoalbrand, but I run it whenever I expect lots of combo decks. I like to bring it in against scapeshift too.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
Glissa, the Traitor is a personal favorite. With the recent, seeming unpopularity of Lightning Bolt, she seems even better. I played two copies main-deck for many months along with one copy of Executioner's Capsule and another of the latter in the side-board along with a copy of Engineered Explosives. Glissa can do obscene things with either of those artifacts.
Personally, I would want at least one more copy of EE or something similar to abuse with Glissa. I'd probably want another copy of Glissa in a non-traverse build.
The kids who play in big tournaments and on-line may disparage a card like Glissa, but she can work in FNM and she can just win some games for you that you should not have any chance in. She's not scarred of many other creatures; she wins most of the time and the worst she's going to do is tie nearly all of the time. Indestructible is the only keyword you don't want to see on the other side.
Well, protection from B or G is a problem too, but that's hardly a dig on her.
I treat the artifact text on Glissa as trinket text. If it's relevant I'm happy but what I'm really playing it for is the first strike/death touch. I don't think I need to warp the rest of the deck for that. I could see one more artifact but I don't know what the cut would be although I'm pretty sure the add would be Walking Ballista, Rancor is already taking that slot, but the single Rancor seems pretty sweet. It's another type for Flayer if they get rid of it, and if they don't it goes well on any creature in the list. It even goes well on Shambling Vents as a late game engine.
There's a lot of little things in this list that I like. From Hierarch enabling an Engineered Explosives on 4 if needed, to Rancor on anything, to the way Sorin plays with so much trample in the list. I think the only thing I really fear is Mirran Crusader.
How do you guys sideboard versus Death's Shadow Jund/Grixis? The matchup feels good, but I don't know if it's right to just side out all the low CMC hitting discard spells?
Burn (pray to dodge):
Out: 1 Spellbomb, 3 Thoughtseize, 1 Dark Confidant (I want all Confidants out, but I don't have enough in my SB for it)
In: 2 Collective Brutality, 1 EE, 1 Flaying Tendrils, 1 Lingering Souls
Your sideboarding plans look pretty good. Your board is pretty weak to burn, but you know that and most decks must make sideboard concessions somewhere. I'll go through a few nitpick SB plans I noticed:
Affinity: You want damnation for sure. Kills Etched Champion. LotV isn't great in this matchup, and I would rather have IoK than LotV. I know IoK can be a dead draw late, but a t-1 ioK can mess up an affinity player pretty hard sometimes by taking an enabler like Mox Opal, 0-mana creature, springleaf drum, etc, or maybe if they have a single payoff card it can just snatch that.
UW Control: Board in the 4th Lingering Souls, and as for removal spells, I would keep Path in over Fatal Push. Both can hit Colonnade, but path can hit gideons, and sometimes you can path your lingering souls token in response to a detention sphere to keep the rest, and net a basic land out of it. Obviously having path + fulminaters is bad synergy, but you won't be casting path on your opponent's creatures until late game where the basic shouldn't really matter, and Pathing your own souls token is real clutch sometimes. I would also keep in all the Ioks. Maybe cut something like -1 Scooze -1 Spellbomb -1 Path To Exile -3 Fatal Push
Counters Company: I like Thoughtseize over surgicals here. Thoughtseize hits their best card against you (CoCo) and can mess up their curve, and can nab something important that they got back with an eternal Witness. Surgical is usually a card advantage loss, which is not what we want to be doing in this matchup. Also, LotV can be pretty weak on the draw, especially if you are taking out hand disruption.
Played my list last night at FNM, first time I had played Junk but I was coming from a Jund background. A list that's close to what I played is up above, I don't want to spam the list again. Ended up going 3-1.
Some things I noticed worked really well that I liked:
Urborg was fantastic
Hierarch really helped
Glissa really turns the tables on a board state
Rancor was consistently my strongest card all night. It beats pretty much every board stall.
Some stuff I didn't like:
Grim Flayer was too hit or miss
Delirium was too difficult to turn on
I felt lacking in unconditional removal
I'll think about ways to adjust my list to improve. Delirium probably needs 1-2 more enablers and I think -1 Flayer +1 Hierarch (swapping the numbers from 4-3 to 3-4). I've also had a lot of interest in trying to play pure GB using Ishkanah to go wide, but after my experience last night I think that Sorin (both versions) are too strong to ignore.
Four (4)! Tectonic Edge in the main deck of the Top 8 Abzan list?! That's certainly surprising. It looks more like a Rock deck splashing for Souls and Stony Silence out of the board than traditional Abzan.
Lots of interesting choices in all the Top 32 Abzan and Rock decks.
I've seen the Abzan lists with either 23 or 24 lands. What's the correct number? Any thoughts?
I've honestly always been happy with 23. I don't play a lot of 4 drops in my lists, though, never more than 2 after board, and 23 has never let me down.
These are very encouraging and interesting results.
Reid Duke put that article out a couple of weeks ago where he was adamant about the omission of Paths.
In addition most of the Abzan decks over the weekend included Grim Flayers and a bunch included Dark confidant. This is definitely my favorite type of build and I look forward to seeing more results.
These are very encouraging and interesting results.
Reid Duke put that article out a couple of weeks ago where he was adamant about the omission of Paths.
In addition most of the Abzan decks over the weekend included Grim Flayers and a bunch included Dark confidant. This is definitely my favorite type of build and I look forward to seeing more results.
I'm a fan of few to no Paths. I've been trying to figure out a pure GB version myself. I noticed a lot of these recent lists didn't play Sorin which means white was for just Path/Souls, both of which I think are replaceable. It's just a matter of getting Delirium turned on reliably without having a deck that over exposes itself to GY hate.
What about fetchlands? I wanna run 4 Verdant Catacombs, 2 Marsh Flats and 2 Windswept Heath. Does this sounds fine?
It very much depends on the rest of your Mana base, but yes you can run 2 Windswept Heath in place of two Marsh Flats. I think 4 Marsh Flats and 4 Verdant is the optimal build, because the most important color in the deck is black. But, when I first built Abzan I ran 4 Windswept instead of Marsh Flats because I already had them, and slowly bought into the 4 Marsh Flats build, even running the 2/2 split you're suggesting for a while.
I'm a huge fan of tracker. I feel like if you flip rhino, you lose half of his value since his lifegain is just offsetting the huge loss of life at that point. At least tireless tracker takes 1 less point of dmg and doesn't draw less cards because you flipped him off Bob. The thing I like about tracker (especially post board), is that when he's in play you basically have no bad top decks, and fetchlands become super good (usually better to wait for removal on tracker before you crack them).
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
I really like the power of Bob+Tracker, I actually play that combination alongside some mana dorks (DRS rather than Hierarch) in Legacy. It works very, very well in that format. I'm not sure that's where I want to be in Modern though, Modern right now strikes me as a format where you want some stronger bodies on the field which is why I like the combination of Rhino+Flayer+Hierarch.
Honestly though, if not for Lingering Souls I would be perfectly content to play pure BG. It's a random and likely bad thought, but I wonder if Ishkanah could compensate for Lingering Souls given enough attention to Delirium.
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Treetop Village
2 Shambling Vents
Creatures 15
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Grim Flayer
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Glissa, the Traitor
2 Siege Rhino
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Enchantment 1
1 Rancor
Spells 17
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Lingering Souls
1 Murderous Cut
Artifact 2
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Stony Silence
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Ishkanah, Graf Widow
1 Dark Betrayal
1 Gaddok Teeg
2 Surgical Extraction
Glissa, the Traitor is a personal favorite. With the recent, seeming unpopularity of Lightning Bolt, she seems even better. I played two copies main-deck for many months along with one copy of Executioner's Capsule and another of the latter in the side-board along with a copy of Engineered Explosives. Glissa can do obscene things with either of those artifacts.
Personally, I would want at least one more copy of EE or something similar to abuse with Glissa. I'd probably want another copy of Glissa in a non-traverse build.
The kids who play in big tournaments and on-line may disparage a card like Glissa, but she can work in FNM and she can just win some games for you that you should not have any chance in. She's not scarred of many other creatures; she wins most of the time and the worst she's going to do is tie nearly all of the time. Indestructible is the only keyword you don't want to see on the other side.
Well, protection from B or G is a problem too, but that's hardly a dig on her.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tireless Tracker
3 Lingering Souls
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
2 Collective Brutality
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Shambling Vent
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Lost Legacy
2 Flaying Tendrils
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
I ended up going 3-0 tonight, here's another quick recap of my opponents
R1 Soul Sisters: both games started off with discard, pulse, lotv + 4 lands. G1 I IoK his honor of the pure, and pulse his board of 2x ajani pridemate, then follow up w/ LotV. The tempo gain from that alone bought me enough to survive through the land pocket that lasted turns 1-4. G2 I was surprised to see the LotV since I had boarded out 3 of them for 2x tendrils + 1 EE. Oh well, IoK his squadron hawk since he had 2 lands and the rest were 3 drops, and all of my answers line up basically perfectly against his curve.
R2 RG Madcap Ponza. G1 I drop a bob t2 and barely win the game after revealing 2x souls and taking a hit from Stormbreath Dragon over the course of 3 turns. G2 I play LotV to make him sac a BoP after a rocky start, and he untaps, hits his land drop, and drops Thrun. Luckily I had a goyf to wall it off and my topdeck next turn was Blessed Alliance. We stare at each other for a couple turns after that as I'm unable to uptick lily due to an Obstinate Baloth in hand. Eventually I draw a push, and start upticking lily to get us both into topdeck. We both draw trash magic cards for a while (except when he drew Inferno titan to kill Lily, and I untapped and pulsed it), but I'm able to eventually get wide enough around the Thrun to whack him for lethal.
R3 Grishoal Brand. This deck is the entire reason I ran Gaddock Teeg tonight as well. G1 I land a t2 scavenging ooze, t4 lily, and whack him down to 0 while he is unable to assemble breach + fatty and scooby prevents him from using goryo's. G2 I keep a 1 land hand w/ Surgical, and he IoKs me t1 to rip it out of my hand. I proceed to miss a land drop for 3 turns, but he doesn't assemble the combo before I find my 2nd land and untap w/ scooby. G2 Ended w/ Scooby, Bob, and 3 Goyfs in play.
Teeg might actually stick around since he's randomly a card I'm super excited to bring in for matchups around here.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
Well you should already be sandbagging an extra land anyways to pitch to lily, esp now with our lower curve. Even if you don't, tracker + fatal push give you extra incentive to save fetchlands for revolt/tracker if you don't need the mana. I rarely have to play tireless tracker without a fetch/land in hand. I think in the last 7 rounds, I've had to do it once.
CB is pretty great in the mb imo, it's a holdover from playing it in BG, and works pretty well with LS, particularly when you don't have white mana. Legacy was just for grishoalbrand, but I run it whenever I expect lots of combo decks. I like to bring it in against scapeshift too.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
I treat the artifact text on Glissa as trinket text. If it's relevant I'm happy but what I'm really playing it for is the first strike/death touch. I don't think I need to warp the rest of the deck for that. I could see one more artifact but I don't know what the cut would be although I'm pretty sure the add would be Walking Ballista, Rancor is already taking that slot, but the single Rancor seems pretty sweet. It's another type for Flayer if they get rid of it, and if they don't it goes well on any creature in the list. It even goes well on Shambling Vents as a late game engine.
There's a lot of little things in this list that I like. From Hierarch enabling an Engineered Explosives on 4 if needed, to Rancor on anything, to the way Sorin plays with so much trample in the list. I think the only thing I really fear is Mirran Crusader.
Your sideboarding plans look pretty good. Your board is pretty weak to burn, but you know that and most decks must make sideboard concessions somewhere. I'll go through a few nitpick SB plans I noticed:
Affinity: You want damnation for sure. Kills Etched Champion. LotV isn't great in this matchup, and I would rather have IoK than LotV. I know IoK can be a dead draw late, but a t-1 ioK can mess up an affinity player pretty hard sometimes by taking an enabler like Mox Opal, 0-mana creature, springleaf drum, etc, or maybe if they have a single payoff card it can just snatch that.
UW Control: Board in the 4th Lingering Souls, and as for removal spells, I would keep Path in over Fatal Push. Both can hit Colonnade, but path can hit gideons, and sometimes you can path your lingering souls token in response to a detention sphere to keep the rest, and net a basic land out of it. Obviously having path + fulminaters is bad synergy, but you won't be casting path on your opponent's creatures until late game where the basic shouldn't really matter, and Pathing your own souls token is real clutch sometimes. I would also keep in all the Ioks. Maybe cut something like -1 Scooze -1 Spellbomb -1 Path To Exile -3 Fatal Push
Counters Company: I like Thoughtseize over surgicals here. Thoughtseize hits their best card against you (CoCo) and can mess up their curve, and can nab something important that they got back with an eternal Witness. Surgical is usually a card advantage loss, which is not what we want to be doing in this matchup. Also, LotV can be pretty weak on the draw, especially if you are taking out hand disruption.
Some things I noticed worked really well that I liked:
Urborg was fantastic
Hierarch really helped
Glissa really turns the tables on a board state
Rancor was consistently my strongest card all night. It beats pretty much every board stall.
Some stuff I didn't like:
Grim Flayer was too hit or miss
Delirium was too difficult to turn on
I felt lacking in unconditional removal
I'll think about ways to adjust my list to improve. Delirium probably needs 1-2 more enablers and I think -1 Flayer +1 Hierarch (swapping the numbers from 4-3 to 3-4). I've also had a lot of interest in trying to play pure GB using Ishkanah to go wide, but after my experience last night I think that Sorin (both versions) are too strong to ignore.
Lots of interesting choices in all the Top 32 Abzan and Rock decks.
I've honestly always been happy with 23. I don't play a lot of 4 drops in my lists, though, never more than 2 after board, and 23 has never let me down.
Reid Duke put that article out a couple of weeks ago where he was adamant about the omission of Paths.
In addition most of the Abzan decks over the weekend included Grim Flayers and a bunch included Dark confidant. This is definitely my favorite type of build and I look forward to seeing more results.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
It's going to depend on the rest of your list. I play 23, but deep down I think 24 or even 25 would be stronger. I just don't know what to cut though.
I'm a fan of few to no Paths. I've been trying to figure out a pure GB version myself. I noticed a lot of these recent lists didn't play Sorin which means white was for just Path/Souls, both of which I think are replaceable. It's just a matter of getting Delirium turned on reliably without having a deck that over exposes itself to GY hate.
It very much depends on the rest of your Mana base, but yes you can run 2 Windswept Heath in place of two Marsh Flats. I think 4 Marsh Flats and 4 Verdant is the optimal build, because the most important color in the deck is black. But, when I first built Abzan I ran 4 Windswept instead of Marsh Flats because I already had them, and slowly bought into the 4 Marsh Flats build, even running the 2/2 split you're suggesting for a while.
I am still debating if I want to run 2 path or go for the throat/dismember/murderous cut in its place
I find the grixis shadow matchup to be difficult and path is much better in those