I honestly think we can't go bigger and slow us down, because we will never outvalue eldrazi tron or big mana ever. Therefore i think we kinda need to go under big mana decks. In midrange mirtors, grinding was never the problem. And I also think Death shadow is not a Problem. Its only big mana that gets us, and we can't be sloweing us down more than we already are.
@Spsiegel, I completely agree that the list is too greedy as it is. Thats why i changed it a bit and added another Land. So far it has been working well. What I definitely think, is that in this deck, using traverse to get a Land is nothing embarrassing, sometimes it just has to happen. The main Problem it has is getting into the game and curving out and hitting landrops. But after that, i really have been enjoying the few lands which decrease bad topdecks quite a bit. And when delirium is online things are getting very serious. Ofc this means gy hate is something that hurts the deck quite a bit.
I've been running the Patrick Tilsen SCG Indy list for a while now but I'm looking to change some things up mainly by dropping to two Grim Flayer's and adding more discard. As for the sideboard here is what I'm thinking of running:
I like the utility I can get from Zealous Persecution and Dromoka's Command. I'm not sure on which Storm hate I want to bring but I will be trying out Rule of Law. I figured with two Nihil Spellbombs in the main, I could just run one Surgical in the sideboard. I'm still iffy on Fulminator Mage because half the time against Tron it doesn't seem to make a difference and I don't like the loss in tempo. By dropping a Fulminator I feel like I can add another Surgical Extraction or Storm hate. As for Sorin he's the only non-Liliana planeswalker that I've got and I love his synergy with Lingering Souls. May not be the best option right now so I may drop him for another slot. Nothing groundbreaking but I've ran into a lot of Affinity and Storm lately on MODO so I don't mind the losses to Spaghetti Tron by using less Fulminator's.
For a larger tournament, I would want to find room for a third Thoughtsieze in the sideboard, but my local meta has been pretty burn heavy and combo-light lately, so I recently dropped it for Sorin. I'm also on the fence about swapping Zealous Persecution for a third Stony Silence.
For a larger tournament, I would want to find room for a third Thoughtsieze in the sideboard, but my local meta has been pretty burn heavy and combo-light lately, so I recently dropped it for Sorin. I'm also on the fence about swapping Zealous Persecution for a third Stony Silence.
I would recommend adding sorin to the mainboard for he's just been so amazing for me so far.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks I play:
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
@Zomfshark I tried running Sorin as well. It's pretty good for the most part. However, it's hard to pull yourself back up when you have to -2 to make dudes sometimes.
For a larger tournament, I would want to find room for a third Thoughtsieze in the sideboard, but my local meta has been pretty burn heavy and combo-light lately, so I recently dropped it for Sorin. I'm also on the fence about swapping Zealous Persecution for a third Stony Silence.
This is almost my exact 75 minus the Sorin in the side. I think I've been playing that as a second Lilly or EE. EE has been a safety blanket for me so I'm not sure how much I want to get rid of that.
I honestly think we can't go bigger and slow us down, because we will never outvalue eldrazi tron or big mana ever. Therefore i think we kinda need to go under big mana decks. In midrange mirtors, grinding was never the problem. And I also think Death shadow is not a Problem. Its only big mana that gets us, and we can't be sloweing us down more than we already are.
@Spsiegel, I completely agree that the list is too greedy as it is. Thats why i changed it a bit and added another Land. So far it has been working well. What I definitely think, is that in this deck, using traverse to get a Land is nothing embarrassing, sometimes it just has to happen. The main Problem it has is getting into the game and curving out and hitting landrops. But after that, i really have been enjoying the few lands which decrease bad topdecks quite a bit. And when delirium is online things are getting very serious. Ofc this means gy hate is something that hurts the deck quite a bit.
Damn, man, that actually makes a lot of sense. I think you're right, we're never going to go above the head of Eldrazi/Tron/Blue control decks, and we are just clunking up the deck even more against decks we need to be fast against.
Outside of Jund evolving into DSJ, Junk has also kinda made itself closer to jund in being lean, fast and sleek in terms of it's spells. Looking at the cmc, the Tilsen iteration of Junk is barely higher than the stock Jund lists
Ugh, just took a look at the modern Jund forum to see if I was missing any new tech, it's just people being nasty to one another and fighting about bolt v push. I said it after fatal push was spoiled, there's zero reason to run Jund over Abzan/DSJ outside of being emotionally attached to the deck.
So, Abzan fell down significant shares recently, anyone have a reason why? Looking at mtgo, it looks like it has reasonable matchups. My meta has definitely picked up on Shadow decks, which is surprising since the pricetag isn't very appealing for a deck of the month, my meta has become very interactive, slower paced with less degenerate decks, is anyone else experiencing similar things?
My meta tends to lack people consistently playing big mana decks, and I've also noticed a mild, but general uptick in the amount of interaction people are typically playing. The last few times I've taken DS Jund to the shop I've found myself thinking that Abzan would probably have just been a better choice.
I'd also been wondering about the general downtick in Abzan, and I don't really have any good answer. My expectation would be that DS Jund could help keep big mana at reasonable levels, which would mean that Abzan gets to prey on it, while also being good against the rest of the field, and doesn't have to play against Tron/Valakut every other round. However, that doesn't quite seem to be the case. The cards that people play against Death's Shadow are also reasonable against Abzan because both decks run basically the same threats, so maybe there's some splash effect going on? It's also possible that more B/G/x players are moving to Death's Shadow, so the Abzan representation is just generally lower because of less people playing the deck.
I actually love the direction Abzan has gone in, I had always hated it in the past because it just felt like a more durdly version of Jund. Thanks to the printing of Grim Flayer and Fatal Push, the deck finally has enough 2-drops to consistently present a clock, as well as efficient, early game 1-mana removal. The adoption of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar also gives us an incredibly powerful grindy planeswalker, but at 4 mana instead of 6 mana. I also like that the Hierarchs help to hedge against matchups where you just have to go faster, and are just randomly good against things like Ensnaring Bridge. Overall, the last year has just xbeen really kind to Abzan and has given it lower-cost versions of a lot of the cards it's historically liked to run. My only complaint is that I still can't seem to squeeze in Dark Confidant without feeling like I'm completely punting the Burn matchup.
My meta tends to lack people consistently playing big mana decks, and I've also noticed a mild, but general uptick in the amount of interaction people are typically playing. The last few times I've taken DS Jund to the shop I've found myself thinking that Abzan would probably have just been a better choice.
I'd also been wondering about the general downtick in Abzan, and I don't really have any good answer. My expectation would be that DS Jund could help keep big mana at reasonable levels, which would mean that Abzan gets to prey on it, while also being good against the rest of the field, and doesn't have to play against Tron/Valakut every other round. However, that doesn't quite seem to be the case. The cards that people play against Death's Shadow are also reasonable against Abzan because both decks run basically the same threats, so maybe there's some splash effect going on? It's also possible that more B/G/x players are moving to Death's Shadow, so the Abzan representation is just generally lower because of less people playing the deck.
I actually love the direction Abzan has gone in, I had always hated it in the past because it just felt like a more durdly version of Jund. Thanks to the printing of Grim Flayer and Fatal Push, the deck finally has enough 2-drops to consistently present a clock, as well as efficient, early game 1-mana removal. The adoption of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar also gives us an incredibly powerful grindy planeswalker, but at 4 mana instead of 6 mana. I also like that the Hierarchs help to hedge against matchups where you just have to go faster, and are just randomly good against things like Ensnaring Bridge. Overall, the last year has just xbeen really kind to Abzan and has given it lower-cost versions of a lot of the cards it's historically liked to run. My only complaint is that I still can't seem to squeeze in Dark Confidant without feeling like I'm completely punting the Burn matchup.
Agreed on the last part. Game 2 against Naya Zoo I kept in my bobs thinking they weren't the worst and boy what a mistake that was after I revealed 2 4 cmc cards turn after turn and died.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks I play:
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
Now with fatal push junk is the new jund. The mana curve is equal or lower than jund lists (wth 2 fourdrops). Thats the reason i believe it might be right to run bob in a hierarch list as a 2 of. In my list (no hierarch yet) i run 3 and he has worked miracles
Tried 3 Bob on Thursday. It was weird because Bob is a strong turn 2 play just like Gofy and Grimflayer. There were times where i had to think hard about whether to play Bob first or Gofy first.
Well,first of all sorry my english, i’m from Argentina.
This is a little tournament report of a little FNM this week in my city, it wall small,13 players,4 rounds,I finished 3-1 in second place,was my comeback to Junk after some months playing WG tron.
ROUND 1 : UG Infect 2 - 0 GAME 1: I didn’t expect infect, so my first hand was no optimal, mulligan to five, and no discards, only one removal. This is actually a good matchup,we have lots of removal and discard,but infect is always infect,even the more budget list can win out of nowhere,happily I landed a Dark confidant and start to draw several copies of lingering souls, removal and tarmogoys, ended in 9 of infect. GAME 2: 2 dark confidants, drawing 3 cards per turn and 3 lingering souls resolved was enough. Conclusion: Lingering souls is MVP in this match, can block inkmoth all, winning time to set up the board, dark confidant is more card advantage than they can handle, anyway, don’t get to greedy, dryad arbor can hit your life hard if pumped .
ROUND 2: RG Titanshift 0 – 2 GAME 1: Personally I think this is a terribly matchup, we have a lot of dead cards, our best bet is thoughtseize the scapeshifts and keep path in hand for the primeval titans,any way,there’s not much to do,he combo on turn 4. GAME 2: I bring in fulminator and surgical for valakut, pithing for khalni heart expedition, finks and sorin for the life, but died anyway. Conclusion: A Hard matchup, like tron, big mana decks are a pain in the ass, there’s little to none interaction we can make,and since we can’t interact with the stack,they can combo out of a good topdeck. Makes me think about putting lost legacy in the sideboard.
ROUND 3: Bant Eldrazi 2 – 0 GAME 1: A matchup I tested a lot with a friend, so I know what to do, tarmogoyf is a key card here, at 5/6 can block smashers,tks and drowner, push with revolts take care of tks and path makes smasher less dangerous,a clean win. GAME 2: Bring some board wipes, pithing,anguished because I fear worship, and finks for profit blockers. Like before, goyfs grows bigger than they threats ,I was able to ultimate LotV and from there,was nearly easy. Conclusion: Always kill their mana dorks, goyf is the star here, beware of path, and remember they can have stubborn denial. Some list uses Elspeth,it can be hard to deal with,and lets be honest,a god hand with some temples and tks turn 2-3,is a hard match for any deck.
Round 4 : Boros Burn 2 -1 GAME 1 : Have a nice hand,he keep a mediocre hand,was able to race him with a 6/7 goyf (thanks eidolon ) GAME 2: The opposite, I keep a hand with 2 lands and never drew the third,he burned me out very quickly GAME 3: Sideboard at the rescue,finks is GREAT in this match, and some lovely interactions between siege rhino/finks Lili last hope -2 give me the win. Conclusion: And even matchup, best post sideboard, finks, and sorin are the best here, rhino can be hard to deal with,ALWAYS take out the confidants, is just suicidal keeping them, thoughtseize is a god candidate to be cut. I find than killing the eidolon at first sight was the right play to do,even if you have to give him an extra land.
Final conclusion:
I had a great time playing this deck again,has answers to almost everything and like always, tron and valakut are the worst matchups,I’m definably keeping this list,not changing to a delirium focus list
the rg titan version is much faster,turn 3-4 they are casting titan or scapeshift,i didnt play before against this deck,that probably result in some bad desicions,anyway,i never felt that was something i can do to avoid them to combo
Ugh, just took a look at the modern Jund forum to see if I was missing any new tech, it's just people being nasty to one another and fighting about bolt v push. I said it after fatal push was spoiled, there's zero reason to run Jund over Abzan/DSJ outside of being emotionally attached to the deck.
So, Abzan fell down significant shares recently, anyone have a reason why? Looking at mtgo, it looks like it has reasonable matchups. My meta has definitely picked up on Shadow decks, which is surprising since the pricetag isn't very appealing for a deck of the month, my meta has become very interactive, slower paced with less degenerate decks, is anyone else experiencing similar things?
Honestly, I am glad our meta share is down. That means less hate for our Lingering Souls (ie no more Izzet Staticaster in boards makes me happy)
the problem with leyline is that if you want to see it on your oppening hand you have to play 3-4,and i think we dont have that many flex spots on the sideboard
@Spsiegel, I completely agree that the list is too greedy as it is. Thats why i changed it a bit and added another Land. So far it has been working well. What I definitely think, is that in this deck, using traverse to get a Land is nothing embarrassing, sometimes it just has to happen. The main Problem it has is getting into the game and curving out and hitting landrops. But after that, i really have been enjoying the few lands which decrease bad topdecks quite a bit. And when delirium is online things are getting very serious. Ofc this means gy hate is something that hurts the deck quite a bit.
1 Collective Brutality (1 main deck)
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Rule of Law
1 Blessed Alliance
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Damnation
3 Stony Silence
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Dromoka's Command
I like the utility I can get from Zealous Persecution and Dromoka's Command. I'm not sure on which Storm hate I want to bring but I will be trying out Rule of Law. I figured with two Nihil Spellbombs in the main, I could just run one Surgical in the sideboard. I'm still iffy on Fulminator Mage because half the time against Tron it doesn't seem to make a difference and I don't like the loss in tempo. By dropping a Fulminator I feel like I can add another Surgical Extraction or Storm hate. As for Sorin he's the only non-Liliana planeswalker that I've got and I love his synergy with Lingering Souls. May not be the best option right now so I may drop him for another slot. Nothing groundbreaking but I've ran into a lot of Affinity and Storm lately on MODO so I don't mind the losses to Spaghetti Tron by using less Fulminator's.
URGifts StormUR
URBlue MoonUR
URKiln FiendUR
BURStormBUR
This is my current Noble list, and I've been extremely happy with it:
3x Blooming Marsh
1x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
3x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Shambling Vent
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
Creature (14)
3x Grim Flayer
3x Noble Hierarch
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Siege Rhino
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Thoughtseize
Instant (8)
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Fatal Push
3x Path to Exile
Planeswalker (4)
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
Artifact (2)
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Blessed Alliance
2x Collective Brutality
1x Damnation
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Stony Silence
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Zealous Persecution
For a larger tournament, I would want to find room for a third Thoughtsieze in the sideboard, but my local meta has been pretty burn heavy and combo-light lately, so I recently dropped it for Sorin. I'm also on the fence about swapping Zealous Persecution for a third Stony Silence.
I would recommend adding sorin to the mainboard for he's just been so amazing for me so far.
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
http://www.wizardryfoundry.com
Current Deck:
You clearly haven't played against opposing Lingering souls, CoCo decks or Elves then
Even against control decks and in attrition based MUS she is great. Would always run 1 MB atm.
This is almost my exact 75 minus the Sorin in the side. I think I've been playing that as a second Lilly or EE. EE has been a safety blanket for me so I'm not sure how much I want to get rid of that.
Damn, man, that actually makes a lot of sense. I think you're right, we're never going to go above the head of Eldrazi/Tron/Blue control decks, and we are just clunking up the deck even more against decks we need to be fast against.
Outside of Jund evolving into DSJ, Junk has also kinda made itself closer to jund in being lean, fast and sleek in terms of it's spells. Looking at the cmc, the Tilsen iteration of Junk is barely higher than the stock Jund lists
So, Abzan fell down significant shares recently, anyone have a reason why? Looking at mtgo, it looks like it has reasonable matchups. My meta has definitely picked up on Shadow decks, which is surprising since the pricetag isn't very appealing for a deck of the month, my meta has become very interactive, slower paced with less degenerate decks, is anyone else experiencing similar things?
I'd also been wondering about the general downtick in Abzan, and I don't really have any good answer. My expectation would be that DS Jund could help keep big mana at reasonable levels, which would mean that Abzan gets to prey on it, while also being good against the rest of the field, and doesn't have to play against Tron/Valakut every other round. However, that doesn't quite seem to be the case. The cards that people play against Death's Shadow are also reasonable against Abzan because both decks run basically the same threats, so maybe there's some splash effect going on? It's also possible that more B/G/x players are moving to Death's Shadow, so the Abzan representation is just generally lower because of less people playing the deck.
I actually love the direction Abzan has gone in, I had always hated it in the past because it just felt like a more durdly version of Jund. Thanks to the printing of Grim Flayer and Fatal Push, the deck finally has enough 2-drops to consistently present a clock, as well as efficient, early game 1-mana removal. The adoption of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar also gives us an incredibly powerful grindy planeswalker, but at 4 mana instead of 6 mana. I also like that the Hierarchs help to hedge against matchups where you just have to go faster, and are just randomly good against things like Ensnaring Bridge. Overall, the last year has just xbeen really kind to Abzan and has given it lower-cost versions of a lot of the cards it's historically liked to run. My only complaint is that I still can't seem to squeeze in Dark Confidant without feeling like I'm completely punting the Burn matchup.
Agreed on the last part. Game 2 against Naya Zoo I kept in my bobs thinking they weren't the worst and boy what a mistake that was after I revealed 2 4 cmc cards turn after turn and died.
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi
http://www.wizardryfoundry.com
Current Deck:
Seems like a good idea! Let me know how it works for you.
Tried 3 Bob on Thursday. It was weird because Bob is a strong turn 2 play just like Gofy and Grimflayer. There were times where i had to think hard about whether to play Bob first or Gofy first.
http://www.wizardryfoundry.com
Current Deck:
This is a little tournament report of a little FNM this week in my city, it wall small,13 players,4 rounds,I finished 3-1 in second place,was my comeback to Junk after some months playing WG tron.
First My list:
2 Polluted delta
2 godless shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
2 Blooming Marsh
1 razorverge thicket
1 stirrings wildwood
1 shambling vent
2 swamps
1 forest
1 plains
4 tarmogoyf
4 dark confidant
2 scavenging ooze
2 siege rhino
2 nihil spellbomb
3 Liliana of the veil
1 Liliana,the last hope
4 lingering souls
3 thoughtseize
3 inquisition of kozilek
4 path to exile
3 fatal push
2 abrupt decay
1 collective brutality
3 fulminator mage
1 anguished unmaking
2 kitchen finks
1 grafdigger cage
1 surgical extraction
1 sorin,solemn visitor
2 wrath of god
1 pithing needle
ROUND 1 : UG Infect 2 - 0
GAME 1: I didn’t expect infect, so my first hand was no optimal, mulligan to five, and no discards, only one removal. This is actually a good matchup,we have lots of removal and discard,but infect is always infect,even the more budget list can win out of nowhere,happily I landed a Dark confidant and start to draw several copies of lingering souls, removal and tarmogoys, ended in 9 of infect.
GAME 2: 2 dark confidants, drawing 3 cards per turn and 3 lingering souls resolved was enough.
Conclusion: Lingering souls is MVP in this match, can block inkmoth all, winning time to set up the board, dark confidant is more card advantage than they can handle, anyway, don’t get to greedy, dryad arbor can hit your life hard if pumped .
ROUND 2: RG Titanshift 0 – 2
GAME 1: Personally I think this is a terribly matchup, we have a lot of dead cards, our best bet is thoughtseize the scapeshifts and keep path in hand for the primeval titans,any way,there’s not much to do,he combo on turn 4.
GAME 2: I bring in fulminator and surgical for valakut, pithing for khalni heart expedition, finks and sorin for the life, but died anyway.
Conclusion: A Hard matchup, like tron, big mana decks are a pain in the ass, there’s little to none interaction we can make,and since we can’t interact with the stack,they can combo out of a good topdeck. Makes me think about putting lost legacy in the sideboard.
ROUND 3: Bant Eldrazi 2 – 0
GAME 1: A matchup I tested a lot with a friend, so I know what to do, tarmogoyf is a key card here, at 5/6 can block smashers,tks and drowner, push with revolts take care of tks and path makes smasher less dangerous,a clean win.
GAME 2: Bring some board wipes, pithing,anguished because I fear worship, and finks for profit blockers. Like before, goyfs grows bigger than they threats ,I was able to ultimate LotV and from there,was nearly easy.
Conclusion: Always kill their mana dorks, goyf is the star here, beware of path, and remember they can have stubborn denial. Some list uses Elspeth,it can be hard to deal with,and lets be honest,a god hand with some temples and tks turn 2-3,is a hard match for any deck.
Round 4 : Boros Burn 2 -1
GAME 1 : Have a nice hand,he keep a mediocre hand,was able to race him with a 6/7 goyf (thanks eidolon )
GAME 2: The opposite, I keep a hand with 2 lands and never drew the third,he burned me out very quickly
GAME 3: Sideboard at the rescue,finks is GREAT in this match, and some lovely interactions between siege rhino/finks Lili last hope -2 give me the win.
Conclusion: And even matchup, best post sideboard, finks, and sorin are the best here, rhino can be hard to deal with,ALWAYS take out the confidants, is just suicidal keeping them, thoughtseize is a god candidate to be cut. I find than killing the eidolon at first sight was the right play to do,even if you have to give him an extra land.
Final conclusion:
I had a great time playing this deck again,has answers to almost everything and like always, tron and valakut are the worst matchups,I’m definably keeping this list,not changing to a delirium focus list
Honestly, I am glad our meta share is down. That means less hate for our Lingering Souls (ie no more Izzet Staticaster in boards makes me happy)
No, but if your local meta or the general meta is GY heavy 3x Leyline of the Voids isn't necessarily bad.
If your game plan is to use them mainly against burn, then no. They do not care too much about it, that or they just bring in revelries.
Modern:
BR Control
Grixis Bloo
EDH:
Food Chain Prossh
Land Wipe Maelstrom Wanderer
Selvala, Hearth of the Wilds Eldrazi