MTG Salvation

I'm my recent thinkering, I've found out that Mechanized Production on Welding Jar is just about as sticky as it gets! Tell me 'bout snowball effects!!

You know, I never thought of putting Production on Jar. That sounds incredibly awesome, and I'd love to see that myself one day. Honestly, I'm glad that Production is making a breakthrough now; I've loved that card ever since I saw it spoiled.

In other news, today I made an odd "spreadsheet" thing because I was bored at work. This is me trying to figure out what kind of sideboard I want to have. I have potential sideboard cards listed along the top, and matchups listed on the left in descending order of popularity, according to the "paper" section of Modern Nexus' most recent update. I'm assuming I have enough copies of all these cards in my sideboard. Checkmarks represent me absolutely bringing in some number of that kind of card for that match, and bullet circles represent me maybe bringing it in. NOTE: It's not a sideboard guide, and probably won't be useful for anyone besides myself. It's just for me to reflect on my own strategy.Some takeaways:

• Welding Jar is sideboarded in versus every single matchup except Ad Nauseam (they run Echoing Truth), and potentially Merfolk (no white splash means no Disenchant) and Gifts Storm (only because I've never played against this deck). This tells me that Jar is the single most important card in my sideboard, and I should probably be running four.
• Leyline of Sanctity isn't as useful as I thought it would be. Any matchup that I bring Leyline in for, I would bring in Spellskite too. Maybe I should test without Leyline and see what happens.
• Padeem is brought in quite often. I might need to go up to a third copy, especially seeing how she shores up six of the eight Tier 1 matchups.
• I also regularly bring in Thoughtseize, a lot more often than I thought I would. Maybe I should have more hand control in my sideboard. As of right now, I only own three, so I'd have to use Duress instead (which might be ok, since it's awesome in the Burn matchup too).
• Enchantifact destruction isn't as useful as I thought it was. I should probably drop Ray of Revelation and use something more impactful instead.
• Extirpate seems quite useful. I would run it just because it's slightly different from Extraction.

Does anyone have any feedback or anything to add to the list/spreadsheet? I should really make this online or something.

Quote from crexalbo »

You know, I never thought of putting Production on Jar. That sounds incredibly awesome, and I'd love to see that myself one day. Honestly, I'm glad that Production is making a breakthrough now; I've loved that card ever since I saw it spoiled.

Honestly I had second thoughts about it at first, but after playing with it, yeah the card is nuts. Also I think I would have won a round I lost on Friday if I had put Production on Jar instead of Bridge. Will keep that diabolical thought in mind for next time.

Quote from crexalbo »

In other news, today I made an odd "spreadsheet" thing because I was bored at work. This is me trying to figure out what kind of sideboard I want to have. I have potential sideboard cards listed along the top, and matchups listed on the left in descending order of popularity, according to the "paper" section of Modern Nexus' most recent update. I'm assuming I have enough copies of all these cards in my sideboard. Checkmarks represent me absolutely bringing in some number of that kind of card for that match, and bullet circles represent me maybe bringing it in. NOTE: It's not a sideboard guide, and probably won't be useful for anyone besides myself. It's just for me to reflect on my own strategy.

Some takeaways:

• Welding Jar is sideboarded in versus every single matchup except Ad Nauseam (they run Echoing Truth), and potentially Merfolk (no white splash means no Disenchant) and Gifts Storm (only because I've never played against this deck). This tells me that Jar is the single most important card in my sideboard, and I should probably be running four.
• Leyline of Sanctity isn't as useful as I thought it would be. Any matchup that I bring Leyline in for, I would bring in Spellskite too. Maybe I should test without Leyline and see what happens.
• Padeem is brought in quite often. I might need to go up to a third copy, especially seeing how she shores up six of the eight Tier 1 matchups.
• I also regularly bring in Thoughtseize, a lot more often than I thought I would. Maybe I should have more hand control in my sideboard. As of right now, I only own three, so I'd have to use Duress instead (which might be ok, since it's awesome in the Burn matchup too).
• Enchantifact destruction isn't as useful as I thought it was. I should probably drop Ray of Revelation and use something more impactful instead.
• Extirpate seems quite useful. I would run it just because it's slightly different from Extraction.

Does anyone have any feedback or anything to add to the list/spreadsheet? I should really make this online or something.

If Welding Jar is coming in in almost every match-up, does that not mean it should be mainboard? Or are we of the consensus that we don't need to worry about artifact hate too much game 1 (with the exception of random Kolaghan's Commands?)

With concerns to Leyline of Sanctity I think we 100% need that card to not lose to burn. Sure you can lock up the ground with a Bridge, but their deck is so jam packed with Burn spells you need a way to turn them off completely. Inventors' Fair alone won't gain you enough life to survive the almost 100 points of Burn damage these decks run (I just added up all the Burn spell damage from the first Burn deck I found on MTGGoldfish....91 total damage in burn spells). Spellskite doesn't help you much since having Spellskite turns on their Searing Blazes. If burn wasn't a deck I'd consider not running Leyline. But honestly I don't think I'll ever play a tournament with Lantern where I don't have 3 of them in the sideboard.

I really don't see the point of Padeem. In every match up you seem to want to bring her(is it a she?) in I feel like you have better options. Against all the Tron match ups I'd rather have a bunch of Ghost Quarters, 4 Pithing Needles, a Crucible of Worlds, and every Surgical Extraction effect I brought with me. Against the CoCo decks, Padeem doesn't do anything that having Welding Jar or Spellskite wouldn't fix. She honestly doesn't seem great :\

I have 2 Abrupt Decay in my sideboard as a way to deal with hate for our deck. The most commonly used card to shut down Lantern is Stony Silence, and Abrupt Decay kills that while also being flexible in that it can kill a whole bunch of other threats as well.

Extripate is actually good against Snapcaster Mage decks. Because of the Split Second they can't in response use Snappy to exile the spell you target (*cough* their stupid ***** *cough*) and it can catch them off guard sometimes. I've been debating turning the Surgical in my sideboard into an Extripate to be honest.

This whole no-Leyline thing is a huge experiment. I might be bringing them back later on, or I might even want to use Witchbane Orb or Orbs of Warding as a one- or two-of later on if Burn is really that bad.

A legitimate strategy against Tron is to shut down their early game with Needles (Karn, O-Stone, Ugin), land Bridge at some point, then let Padeem sit on top of your pile of artifacts. At that point, you only need to handle Ulamog, since at that point Ulamog's cast trigger is their only out. Of course, mana denial is the preferred way to fight Tron, but if that fails, Padeem can keep you in the game.

Her greatest strength is to pull you ahead when you've fallen behind, though. Try her out versus any sort of BGx deck. Even with so much as a Mox Opal in play, Padeem will draw you back into all the lock pieces your opponent just spent their last few turns destroying. The best way to win against Rock decks is to just draw more cards than they can handle, and pull ahead in the attrition war they've started. She also has the nice benefit of protecting any further lock pieces you lay.

I'll keep in mind what you've said about Extirpate. It seems like it could be good in a blue-based meta, and I do like how it can hit Ancient Grudge.

How many Decays do you have in your mainboard? I run two in the main. I would fit a third in the sideboard, but I honestly love my Quiet Disrepair and Nature's Claim package. They both greatly help against Burn, and I frequently side in Disrepair against anything aggressive just to slow the bleeding. I think only four answers to Stony might not be enough, but five seems to be too many, especially since I've upped the amount of discard I have in the sideboard.

I find that Burn players sideboard out Searing Blaze against me, so Spellskite is more effective. It's certainly a risky experiment for sure, but it's one that I'm willing to try. I ended up playing against a Burn opponent just earlier tonight actually. Disrepair carried Game 2, and I lost Game 3 by holding an Opal in hand that I should have played before Eidolon came down. It feels a lot harder, but certainly not unwinnable, you just need extremely tight play.

I played with a Jar in the main for the longest time, but then took it out after I realized that I had gone several weeks without sacrificing it once in any Game 1. Most Jund and Abzan lists are trimming down on their Decays, Kommands, and Pulses for more creature removal and threats, Death's Shadow hardly runs any at all, and outside of the occasional random Qasali Pridemage, nobody else runs mainboard hate. However, post-side, the artifact removal spells are real. Grudge, Decay, Wear//Tear, Disenchant, Natural State, Nature's Claim, and others run rampant, and I'm often struggling to keep up with just three Jars. Having four Jars again feels really good. Honestly, I really wish i had more than four Jars, which is part of the reason why I am bringing Skites back in.

I couldn't afford the last 2 Opals for my list, so I've been running 2 Welding jars main for months and I love it, almost to the point I don't want the other 2 Opals.

Padeem is performing well, I'm keeping him at 2 in the sideboard.

I like Leyline over Skite, since it doesn't cost mana/life to keep in use and against burn it's much harder to deal with. Plus it works through stony silence.

As far as enchantifact destruction I use Seal of Primordium. Set it and forget it, kills Leyline, Stony, etc. We don't have to keep it in our hand ready for use like Claim or something, and it doesn't get stopped by our old friend, Chalice on 1.

I like Golgari charm the more I use it. Perhaps it's a meta call for me, but enchantment destruction, regeneration if you're running skites, and -1/-1 to creatures can be good if they hit Noble or if you're stuck with a card or 2 in hand and they have a bunch of tokens.

Quote from crexalbo »

This whole no-Leyline thing is a huge experiment. I might be bringing them back later on, or I might even want to use Witchbane Orb or Orbs of Warding as a one- or two-of later on if Burn is really that bad.

Witchbane Orb is great if you're running Whir of Invention. Otherwise Leyline just seems so much better. I think if you really want to try running on no Leylines, you need some good ways to gain a lot of life. I'd suggest Battle at the Bridge since I've had great results with that card.

Quote from crexalbo »

A legitimate strategy against Tron is to shut down their early game with Needles (Karn, O-Stone, Ugin), land Bridge at some point, then let Padeem sit on top of your pile of artifacts. At that point, you only need to handle Ulamog, since at that point Ulamog's cast trigger is their only out. Of course, mana denial is the preferred way to fight Tron, but if that fails, Padeem can keep you in the game.

Her greatest strength is to pull you ahead when you've fallen behind, though. Try her out versus any sort of BGx deck. Even with so much as a Mox Opal in play, Padeem will draw you back into all the lock pieces your opponent just spent their last few turns destroying. The best way to win against Rock decks is to just draw more cards than they can handle, and pull ahead in the attrition war they've started. She also has the nice benefit of protecting any further lock pieces you lay.

I suppose I can see the use of Padeem against the BGx decks, but against Tron it still seems like a wasted sideboard slot to me. Once you Pithing Needle their Karn and O-Stone, they basically have no way to remove and of your permanents. From there you can just relax and do whatever. I'd rather have a 2nd Production as opposed to Padeem since making a Pithing Needle against Tron every turn is just insane levels of unfair.

Quote from crexalbo »

How many Decays do you have in your mainboard? I run two in the main. I would fit a third in the sideboard, but I honestly love my Quiet Disrepair and Nature's Claim package. They both greatly help against Burn, and I frequently side in Disrepair against anything aggressive just to slow the bleeding. I think only four answers to Stony might not be enough, but five seems to be too many, especially since I've upped the amount of discard I have in the sideboard.

I have 2 Decay main, and 2 in the sideboard. As for what to do about your sideboard slots I am not sure. Though I am curious about how Quiet Disrepair has been working for you. I've considered it as a way to remove artifacts or enchantments, as well as a card I can board in for lifegain. I've found myself liking Sun Droplet better with concerns to the lifegain aspect, especially against Burn. Gaining 1 every upkeep is better than gaining 2 on your upkeep because of Skullcrack. But how has the card been working for you?

Quote from The_Shady_Prophet »

I like Golgari charm the more I use it. Perhaps it's a meta call for me, but enchantment destruction, regeneration if you're running skites, and -1/-1 to creatures can be good if they hit Noble or if you're stuck with a card or 2 in hand and they have a bunch of tokens.

Golgari Charm is definitely an interesting sideboard option. I do like how versatile the options with it are. I also like you suggestion of Seal of Primordium. I may give that card a test and see what I think.

My current sideboard is:

1x Gaddock Teeg (helps against tron, scapeshift, etc.)
1x Golgari Charm
1x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Magus of the Tabernacle (good against tokens or things like 8 whack/Zoo)
2x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1x Pyxis of Pandemonium
2x Seal of Primordium
2x Thoughtseize
1x Torpor Orb (shuts down Snapcaster, TKS, kiki-combo and most of that decks artifact removal)

I'm still running 2 welding jars main, so none in the sideboard, and I have 3 Needles/extractions main, so none of those in the side either.

I feel like your sideboard is set up for a very specific meta, but I do like all the things you're doing with it. Do you have any white mana sources in your mana base or are you relying on Glimmervoid and Opal?

I run 4 Glimmervoid, 3 Spire, 2 opal. No plains or anything like that.

In all honesty the big meta call in my sideboard is Magus and to a lesser extent the other Pyxis. If Modern PTs were still a thing or I was going to something very high level I'd probably axe both for either Skites or 2 more jars.

I suppose I can see the use of Padeem against the BGx decks, but against Tron it still seems like a wasted sideboard slot to me. Once you Pithing Needle their Karn and O-Stone, they basically have no way to remove and of your permanents. From there you can just relax and do whatever. I'd rather have a 2nd Production as opposed to Padeem since making a Pithing Needle against Tron every turn is just insane levels of unfair.

Not actually true They typically run 3-4 Nature's Claim, ~2 World Breaker, ~2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Quote from thnkr »

I suppose I can see the use of Padeem against the BGx decks, but against Tron it still seems like a wasted sideboard slot to me. Once you Pithing Needle their Karn and O-Stone, they basically have no way to remove and of your permanents. From there you can just relax and do whatever. I'd rather have a 2nd Production as opposed to Padeem since making a Pithing Needle against Tron every turn is just insane levels of unfair.

Not actually true They typically run 3-4 Nature's Claim, ~2 World Breaker, ~2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

This. You're dead to any topdecked removal spell. Production is amazing, but just isn't enough without the lock to supplement it.

Maybe I just haven't played against Tron in a while. I think I'd be willing to test out 1 Padeem, but I still don't think you can convince me to run more than that. Not unless I'm in a meta where every other match is against Tron.

The thing is Padeem is good against way more than just tron. Grixis control can't just use cryptic to bounce bridge, qasali pridemage and reclamation sage are dead cards, living end's only answer to bridge, Ingot chewer, is a dead card. A majority of decks side out their creature removal against us. Sure seeing more than 1 a game isn't great since its legendary but that's why 2 is a good number. Enough to make sure you can find it but not so many you're flooded by them.

*grumble* *grumble* Fine.

*makes note on how I need to buy two Padeem*

So I've been looking for singleton artifacts for me to have access to for anytime I decide to run Whir of Invention. Let me know what you guys think of the following:

Defense Grid - Sometimes being on the draw against blue decks can be a pain. If you can land this guy you may be able to have the game set basically to easy-mode

Eon Hub - I don't really think this card is great, but I think it would be hilarious if you got this out early against Ad Nauseam while they have a bunch of Lotus Blooms suspended

Ethersworn Canonist - Definitely an option if there are a lot of people playing combo in your area. Being able to flash this in via Whir when your opponent attempts to go off seems great.

Executioner's Capsule - Repeatable removal via Academy Ruins. I've honestly been wanting to test this card out for a while.

Orbs of Warding - crexalbo mentioned this as a replacement for Leyline. While I 100% believe Leyline is better, Orbs does have some interesting uses. It makes burn creatures not hit you as hard while you're looking for a bridge, and it makes Eidolon only hit you for 1 as opposed to 2.

Sculpting Steel - Want to tutor up another copy of anything you currently have in play?

Time Sieve - Because if I'm already running the Thopter + Sword combo, why the hell not right?

Trading Post - Call me crazy, but...It gains us life, makes us blockers, and can use those blockers to get use back key cards if we need them.

Unwinding Clock - Want to go all-in on the mill plan? Want to just do stupid ***** with Ghirapur Æther Grid? Both good questions.


What does everyone think about the above cards? Again they'd most likely be 1-ofs in either the mainboard or sideboard to be used with Whir of Invention.

I love Defense Grid and have strongly considered running one or two myself. Shutting off counterspells is pretty nice, but I'm thinking it's more of a meta call.

Yes, I know. But since I'm running 2 hopefully I can get the other into the graveyard so it will also come back from the living end. It's pretty easily done honestly, though my main plan is to hopefully either surgical a cascade spell, or IoK/Surgical a living end turn 1.



Skitz, I actually really like that Unwinding Clock idea. Plus you can mill them pretty hard on your turn without worrying about accidentally leaving something you don't want them to have on top of their library.

Quote from Skitzafreak »

So I've been looking for singleton artifacts for me to have access to for anytime I decide to run Whir of Invention. Let me know what you guys think of the following:

Defense Grid - Sometimes being on the draw against blue decks can be a pain. If you can land this guy you may be able to have the game set basically to easy-mode

Eon Hub - I don't really think this card is great, but I think it would be hilarious if you got this out early against Ad Nauseam while they have a bunch of Lotus Blooms suspended

Ethersworn Canonist - Definitely an option if there are a lot of people playing combo in your area. Being able to flash this in via Whir when your opponent attempts to go off seems great.

Executioner's Capsule - Repeatable removal via Academy Ruins. I've honestly been wanting to test this card out for a while.

Orbs of Warding - crexalbo mentioned this as a replacement for Leyline. While I 100% believe Leyline is better, Orbs does have some interesting uses. It makes burn creatures not hit you as hard while you're looking for a bridge, and it makes Eidolon only hit you for 1 as opposed to 2.

Sculpting Steel - Want to tutor up another copy of anything you currently have in play?

Time Sieve - Because if I'm already running the Thopter + Sword combo, why the hell not right?

Trading Post - Call me crazy, but...It gains us life, makes us blockers, and can use those blockers to get use back key cards if we need them.

Unwinding Clock - Want to go all-in on the mill plan? Want to just do stupid ***** with Ghirapur Æther Grid? Both good questions.


What does everyone think about the above cards? Again they'd most likely be 1-ofs in either the mainboard or sideboard to be used with Whir of Invention.

Defense Grid is one of those cards that seems good, but just detracts more than it adds. Lantern has such a low mana cost with so much redundancy that countermagic is usually pretty bad and anything else can be played on their turn without much cost. Then when you get to the late game it's just a dead draw. Even as a Whir target it's pretty mediocre because if they let the whir resolve they probably don't have a counterspell. I'd just rather have Duress 80% of the time.

Ethersworn Cannonist, particularly in the SB, is a solid option.

Executioner's Capsule is pretty mediocre. Generally the creatures you are trying to kill are ones with ETB abilities or activated abilities (that pithing needle handles) everything else gets mopped up by Bridge.

Orbs of Warding is just too slow. If it cost 4 it could be considered, but realistically by the time you cast Orbs your hand has been shredded or your face burned off.

Sculpting Steel is not a bad choice in general. As a whir target though you will almost always have at least one of whatever you are looking for.

Trading Post is just a little slow. In the scenarios where you can get it to land and use it you will already be winning.

Unwinding clock is like Trading Post in that it is win more except that all Unwinding clock does is generally win more. It doesn't really help set the lock just speed it up where as at least Trading Post can make chump blockers or gain life or eventually get back more lock pieces from the GY.

2 Academy Ruins
4 Blooming Marsh
1 Forest
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Glimmervoid
2 Inventors' Fair
1 Spire of Industry
1 Swamp
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Codex Shredder
4 Collective Brutality
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Ghoulcaller's Bell
1 Infernal Tutor
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lantern of Insight
4 Mox Opal
3 Pithing Needle
1 Pyxis of Pandemonium
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Fatal Push

Sideboard
2 Thoughtseize
1 Fatal Push
2 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Pithing Needle
2 Seal of Primordium
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Welding Jar

Went 3-1 for a third place finish at my LGS's Tuesday Night Modern tournament and the rounds went as follows:

Round 1, n/a: Opponent no showed, 2-0
1-0

Round 2, Infect, 1-2
Game 1, I was able to land an early Lantern lock with an ensnaring bridge and was also able to keep him off Noble Heirarchs and his lone Viridian Corruptor. Game 2 I get a slightly late, turn 5 lock, but he had a turn 1 Heirarch, that he was able to protect with both Apostles Blessing and 2 Blossoming Defense for all four of my attempts to kill it and he won through straight damage. Game 3, I mulled to 5, kept a shaky hand, and got crushed by a turn 3 Corruptor on my Bridge.
1-1

Round 3, WB Obzidat, Ghost Council Extort Thingy, 2-0
I open game 1 with an Inquisition in hand plus a Lantern and Bridge. Inquisition reveals a bunch of Extort creatures and an Obzidat. So I'm thinking ok... how do I best that preboard... I get a Lantern plus mill rock down, along with my bridge, but he gets to 5 mana and casts Obzidat. Now at this point I have 9 turns to figure something out, as he was able to Extort me twice beforehand, but luckily my top deck was Infernal Tutor, so I cast it looking through deck trying to figure out how to beat that card when I notice Inventors' Fair and think," well... it doubles the clock, so maybe I can mill him out before he domes me foe 18 with obzibaby." Turns out I was right. Game 2, a turn 0 Leyline shut down his namesake card and I easily ride it to victory as he had no enchantment interaction main or side.
2-1

Round 4, Sultai good stuff, 2-0.
I'm on the play and open with a ghost quarter into Codex Shredder. My opponent opens with an Inquisition and takes my Bridge. I top another and use my own Inquisition, taking his Mana Leak. He draws, shrugs and plays Serum Visions, draws and puts both on bottom. I untapped play Bridge and he scoops, saying he just sent 2 Abrupt Decay to the bottom. Game 2he once again strips my hand of Bridge, but I have Lantern plus mill rock going and 2 out of the top 3 cards of my library were 2 more bridges. 2 Decays milled later he scoops again.

So, it was a good run and I really enjoyed the Fatal Pushes even if they didn't quite pan out against the infect deck, but I mean he just had such a great hand for protecting his guys in game 2. Had he not has any one of the 4 he did, I would have won that game, so I can't complain too much.

Quote from genini2 »

Defense Grid is one of those cards that seems good, but just detracts more than it adds. Lantern has such a low mana cost with so much redundancy that countermagic is usually pretty bad and anything else can be played on their turn without much cost. Then when you get to the late game it's just a dead draw. Even as a Whir target it's pretty mediocre because if they let the whir resolve they probably don't have a counterspell. I'd just rather have Duress 80% of the time.

Ethersworn Cannonist, particularly in the SB, is a solid option.

Executioner's Capsule is pretty mediocre. Generally the creatures you are trying to kill are ones with ETB abilities or activated abilities (that pithing needle handles) everything else gets mopped up by Bridge.

Orbs of Warding is just too slow. If it cost 4 it could be considered, but realistically by the time you cast Orbs your hand has been shredded or your face burned off.

Sculpting Steel is not a bad choice in general. As a whir target though you will almost always have at least one of whatever you are looking for.

Trading Post is just a little slow. In the scenarios where you can get it to land and use it you will already be winning.

Unwinding clock is like Trading Post in that it is win more except that all Unwinding clock does is generally win more. It doesn't really help set the lock just speed it up where as at least Trading Post can make chump blockers or gain life or eventually get back more lock pieces from the GY.

Cannonist does sound pretty good. I'll probably mark that one down in my book as an option.

With concerns to Sculpting Steel though, I have had some games where my opponent has used Surgical Extraction or some other exile effect to deal with every copy of Ensnaring Bridge I have, except for the single one I have left in play. Being able to have Sculpting Steel as another Bridge that doesn't get removed via those effects seems pretty beneficial to be honest. Though to be fair I will concede this does seem like a corner case.