Hi thnkr , can you share your thought process on removing spellskite on the sideboard ?
not thnkr but he did explain before his reasoning. essentially welding jars tested far better than spellskite, likely due to the decreased cost allowing you to protect important lock pieces far sooner than with spellskite, in addition to not losing health to it. Sure, you have to run multiple copies, but you have to run multiple spellskites to increase your chance of getting one anyways.
essentially, welding jars just tested better and had more value.
Hi thnkr , can you share your thought process on removing spellskite on the sideboard ?
not thnkr but he did explain before his reasoning. essentially welding jars tested far better than spellskite, likely due to the decreased cost allowing you to protect important lock pieces far sooner than with spellskite, in addition to not losing health to it. Sure, you have to run multiple copies, but you have to run multiple spellskites to increase your chance of getting one anyways.
essentially, welding jars just tested better and had more value.
I'd imagine that Jar + Padeem will really lower the usefulness of Skite. I'm considering going to a sideboard of 2x Padeem / 4 Jar (3 side, 1 main) / 1 Skite.
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Hi thnkr , can you share your thought process on removing spellskite on the sideboard ?
Yeppers. Just like pyroMechanical and crexalbo mention, Spellskite just doesn't seem to be doing enough. The greatest thing that influenced the decision was how terrible Spellskite scores when looking at correlating win % increase or decrease when I had one in the opening hand.
Now, I understand that we might not want to only look at how cards perform when they're in our opening hand, as they might be very good later on in the game as well. But I have what I think is a very good reason for basing decisions with this deck on deckbuilding and mulligans using correlating win %'s from cards in openers. With nearly every deck in the format, we have the most inevitability, so technically we could throw nearly any card in Modern into the deck as a tool or win condition and it would work - so long as we live long enough to make use of it.
The trick is living that long. Thus, the effectiveness of our opening hands is paramount. We want to have a deck in which nearly every card that might be in our opener to be great. Spellskite does not contribute to this gameplan, as it has a negative overall correlating win %. Not only that, but our win % drops so much with it that there is only one other card that scores worse on there (Duress).
So that's why I dropped Spellskite. I actually dropped Spellskite a little while ago now. Its purpose was to block small creatures and redirect removal for our lock pieces. Thanks to Collective Brutality and Inventors' Fair, we have less to worry about when it comes to small creatures. Thanks to a full 8 discard effects, removal for our lock pieces is much harder to hold on to for when we actually play them.
Welding Jar, on the other hand, has a positive correlation when we have a single copy in our hand. It does essentially the same job as what Spellskite does (other than what Brutality and Fair already cover for us now), but costs less.
In addition, Padeem proved very good in my testing just before the States tournament.
I received a very similar question on the Youtube channel, and I think that the matchup is very interesting. I've played against the new version three times now that I remember. Every time is 2-0 (one of them was at States). It appears that it's as simple as landing a Bridge, for the most part. That reduces the number of relevant cards in their deck to 3-4, if they're lucky. It's some number of Kolaghan's Command and Liliana of the Veil. I run three Pithing Needle main, so shutting off Liliana reduces that number even further. That makes our topdecks rediculously better than theirs, and we are much more likely to draw into what we want/need than they are. Once we get a Lantern and a mill rock or two with a Bridge in the preboard games, we're pretty much set.
Postboard I usually try to mulligan into Leylines. That shuts off at least 10 cards in their deck alone. At that point it's just a matter of landing a Bridge with either Padeem or some number of Welding Jars, or getting the Lantern lock online. Again, at the point that we have a Leyline and a Bridge, our topdecks are significantly better than theirs, and we are much more likely to just draw live cards to win it out.
I have a few videos of the matchup now on the Youtube channel. Congratulations on your 9-0 at the GP, and I hope you do well in Copenhague!
Not for the foreseeable future, ya, that's correct. I wouldn't say that I'd rule the card out entirely, as it might find a place in my list again one day, but for now it just doesn't perform well enough to be worthy of inclusion.
Hi thnkr , can you share your thought process on removing spellskite on the sideboard ?
Yeppers. Just like pyroMechanical and crexalbo mention, Spellskite just doesn't seem to be doing enough. The greatest thing that influenced the decision was how terrible Spellskite scores when looking at correlating win % increase or decrease when I had one in the opening hand.
Now, I understand that we might not want to only look at how cards perform when they're in our opening hand, as they might be very good later on in the game as well. But I have what I think is a very good reason for basing decisions with this deck on deckbuilding and mulligans using correlating win %'s from cards in openers. With nearly every deck in the format, we have the most inevitability, so technically we could throw nearly any card in Modern into the deck as a tool or win condition and it would work - so long as we live long enough to make use of it.
The trick is living that long. Thus, the effectiveness of our opening hands is paramount. We want to have a deck in which nearly every card that might be in our opener to be great. Spellskite does not contribute to this gameplan, as it has a negative overall correlating win %. Not only that, but our win % drops so much with it that there is only one other card that scores worse on there (Duress).
So that's why I dropped Spellskite. I actually dropped Spellskite a little while ago now. Its purpose was to block small creatures and redirect removal for our lock pieces. Thanks to Collective Brutality and Inventors' Fair, we have less to worry about when it comes to small creatures. Thanks to a full 8 discard effects, removal for our lock pieces is much harder to hold on to for when we actually play them.
Welding Jar, on the other hand, has a positive correlation when we have a single copy in our hand. It does essentially the same job as what Spellskite does (other than what Brutality and Fair already cover for us now), but costs less.
In addition, Padeem proved very good in my testing just before the States tournament.
I hope that helps
I understand your point, in retrospect I only side in spellskite on blue decks that has cryptic command . Those decks are pretty slow so I would guess padeem will also be a good choice since they side out removals post board
I've been wanting to take out Pyrite Spellbomb on my main and try mindcandy's list with 2 baubles and 2 Collective (I run kannister's for the longest time) , but on small tourneys my opponents normally want me to mill them out and there are quite a few matches that went to time. Pyrite spellbomb solved those problems. Although on bigger tourneys opponents usually concede if I have the lock.
Does looping Collective can also be productive? it take more mana though
Jamming all the modern I can this week in preparation for the Open saturday. Just a couple rounds of testing against affinity last night, but played a tourney monday and playing a win a box tournament tonight.
Monday: 2-2.
Round 1: Jeskai Saheeli, 0-2. Got the lantern lock and bridge out, but couldn't find a needle for their Saheeli an eventually just died to pings and the 3 Helixes he got off Ancestral Visions draws. Game 2 a negate on my Needle, then remand my bridge, then snap negate on bridge. Died to Snappy and Saheeli.
Round 2: Burn 0-2. Came close in game 1, landing bridge and emptying the hand, but came 1 mil rock too short to stop the burn spells. Game 2 had a solid starting 7, considered mulling for leyline but didn't. Found the lelyines but too few lands to play them and got burnt out.
Round 3: Bye
Round 4: Bogles 2-0. Took game 1 easily after dropping double bridge. Game 2 got bridge down easy, keeping Golgari Charm in hand just in case of a stony silence. Had one big fight over the seal of primodirum on top of his deck that I won. He never saw any more of his sideboard stuff. Quite a bit of sodium off that guy.
I'm liking Magus of the Tabernacle less and less in the main. Moved it to the side and brought in copy 3 of Surgical to the mainboard. Considered the third Pithing needle instead but Surgical is more often a live card, and it's "free" to cast as well, making emptying the hand much easier.
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Standard: GR Pummeler
Modern: Mono-Red Control, Lantern Control, Eldrazi Taxes, Skred Infect
Pauper: Affinity
EDH: Gaddock Teeg Kithkin Tribal, Meren
Legacy: 8 Rack, Omnitell (Both in progress)
2-2 last night as well, almost an exact replica of monday but with different matchups.
Round 1, Eldrazi Tron 0-2. Game 1 was a blow out, but game 2 was much closer. In the end I had to cast lantern into Chalice on 1 to keep my hand empty and never saw another after I Aburpt Decayed the chalice. He found Ulamog and it was all over after that.
Round 2, Grixis Delver 0-2. Turn 2 Tasigur both games. Game 2 I established a pretty hard lock on his draws and had bridge down but he was able to cryptic bounce bridge swing, then next turn Snappy Cryptic Bounce bridge.
Round 3: no idea what this guy was on, he knew I was on lantern and conceded the round before we even rolled dice.
Round 4: BW Eldrazi 2-0. Landed bridge early game 1, milled his Anguished Unmaking and he had no other answers. Game 2 saw all 4 bridges, milled both stony silences and used lost legacy on anguished unmaking to draw the concession.
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Standard: GR Pummeler
Modern: Mono-Red Control, Lantern Control, Eldrazi Taxes, Skred Infect
Pauper: Affinity
EDH: Gaddock Teeg Kithkin Tribal, Meren
Legacy: 8 Rack, Omnitell (Both in progress)
Anybody notice the VT States was also won by Lantern? I don't recall seeing a write up from that person, just from Thnkr, so if they're here I'd love to hear their write up as well!
Flaying Tendrils in the SB is interesting. Are there many match-ups where paying one more mana to exile the creatures makes this better than Pyroclasm?
hey guys, i usually play tezz and there's been a lot of talk in our thread about how we topdeck poorly, i was giving it some thought this weekend and thought that if we controlled our opponents topdecks we could even the playing field a bit, so i started to look into adding some elements of this deck into it etc. i ended up with the list below and think it could be something. lack of ancient stirrings obviously makes the deck lose a bit of speed getting the lock. how necessary are the 3rd and 4th opals, and how would the deck perform with no glimmervoids? 21 lands seems plenty to cast tezz/whir, with the amount of 1-drops/artifacts i dont see the need for any more, possibly even going down to 20? I can see myself dropping whir altogether and adding the 3rd and 4th bridge back in to make the manabase a bit nicer.
I honestly can't think of a scenario in which I'd rather have Tendrils over Pyroclasm. It doesn't really matter if they come back anyway, since Pyroclasm just buys us time for Bridge anyway.
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Padeem is excellent against... well, anything with removal that doesn't run 1-power creatures. Think Burn, Jund/Abzan, Tron, Scapeshift, Dredge, and any control variant. I tested her in a three-round FNM last night, and she performed extremely well.
CRUGGCCCCCCCGBGBGBCCCCCCCBBUWC MODERN – LANTERN(aka Fateseal or Barbershop) Primer–Subreddit–Facebook–Decklist–Gameplay Thnkr's Content:Gameplay–Datasheet Each eye sees a different possibility for tomorrow. CWUBBCCCCCCCBGBGBGCCCCCCCGGURC
What matchup guide on the main post would be closest to Tooth and Nail decks? I'm struggling a lot mainly because they have 5 or 6 mainboard ways to remove bridge (and quickly thanks to their ramp), none of which can be targetted with IOK (Primal Command and Acidic Slime, at least in the deck I'm facing). Brutality hits command but I only seem to be able to mill/thoughtseize the slime, which hasn't been consistent enough. Parallel to that, even if I do land a bridge if I ever get a card stuck in hand they can still insta-gib me with Kessig Wolf Run on one of their one power untappers. Postboard is slightly better with Padeem, welding jar, and more Thoughtseize, but they bring in more artifact hate as well as Fracturing Gust. What's our best line of attack for this deck?
Round 1, Eldrazi Tron 0-2. Game 1 was a blow out, but game 2 was much closer. In the end I had to cast lantern into Chalice on 1 to keep my hand empty and never saw another after I Aburpt Decayed the chalice. He found Ulamog and it was all over after that.
Why did you need to keep your hand empty against Eldrazi Tron? The smallest creature they normally have has a power of 3.
not thnkr but he did explain before his reasoning. essentially welding jars tested far better than spellskite, likely due to the decreased cost allowing you to protect important lock pieces far sooner than with spellskite, in addition to not losing health to it. Sure, you have to run multiple copies, but you have to run multiple spellskites to increase your chance of getting one anyways.
essentially, welding jars just tested better and had more value.
MODERN – LANTERN (aka Fateseal or Barbershop)
Primer – Subreddit – Facebook – Decklist – Gameplay
Thnkr's Content: Gameplay – Datasheet
Each eye sees a different possibility for tomorrow.
CWUBBCCCCCCCBGBGBGCCCCCCCGGURC
Yeppers. Just like pyroMechanical and crexalbo mention, Spellskite just doesn't seem to be doing enough. The greatest thing that influenced the decision was how terrible Spellskite scores when looking at correlating win % increase or decrease when I had one in the opening hand.
Now, I understand that we might not want to only look at how cards perform when they're in our opening hand, as they might be very good later on in the game as well. But I have what I think is a very good reason for basing decisions with this deck on deckbuilding and mulligans using correlating win %'s from cards in openers. With nearly every deck in the format, we have the most inevitability, so technically we could throw nearly any card in Modern into the deck as a tool or win condition and it would work - so long as we live long enough to make use of it.
The trick is living that long. Thus, the effectiveness of our opening hands is paramount. We want to have a deck in which nearly every card that might be in our opener to be great. Spellskite does not contribute to this gameplan, as it has a negative overall correlating win %. Not only that, but our win % drops so much with it that there is only one other card that scores worse on there (Duress).
So that's why I dropped Spellskite. I actually dropped Spellskite a little while ago now. Its purpose was to block small creatures and redirect removal for our lock pieces. Thanks to Collective Brutality and Inventors' Fair, we have less to worry about when it comes to small creatures. Thanks to a full 8 discard effects, removal for our lock pieces is much harder to hold on to for when we actually play them.
Welding Jar, on the other hand, has a positive correlation when we have a single copy in our hand. It does essentially the same job as what Spellskite does (other than what Brutality and Fair already cover for us now), but costs less.
In addition, Padeem proved very good in my testing just before the States tournament.
I hope that helps
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
Postboard I usually try to mulligan into Leylines. That shuts off at least 10 cards in their deck alone. At that point it's just a matter of landing a Bridge with either Padeem or some number of Welding Jars, or getting the Lantern lock online. Again, at the point that we have a Leyline and a Bridge, our topdecks are significantly better than theirs, and we are much more likely to just draw live cards to win it out.
I have a few videos of the matchup now on the Youtube channel. Congratulations on your 9-0 at the GP, and I hope you do well in Copenhague!
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
I understand your point, in retrospect I only side in spellskite on blue decks that has cryptic command . Those decks are pretty slow so I would guess padeem will also be a good choice since they side out removals post board
I've been wanting to take out Pyrite Spellbomb on my main and try mindcandy's list with 2 baubles and 2 Collective (I run kannister's for the longest time) , but on small tourneys my opponents normally want me to mill them out and there are quite a few matches that went to time. Pyrite spellbomb solved those problems. Although on bigger tourneys opponents usually concede if I have the lock.
Does looping Collective can also be productive? it take more mana though
Monday: 2-2.
Round 1: Jeskai Saheeli, 0-2. Got the lantern lock and bridge out, but couldn't find a needle for their Saheeli an eventually just died to pings and the 3 Helixes he got off Ancestral Visions draws. Game 2 a negate on my Needle, then remand my bridge, then snap negate on bridge. Died to Snappy and Saheeli.
Round 2: Burn 0-2. Came close in game 1, landing bridge and emptying the hand, but came 1 mil rock too short to stop the burn spells. Game 2 had a solid starting 7, considered mulling for leyline but didn't. Found the lelyines but too few lands to play them and got burnt out.
Round 3: Bye
Round 4: Bogles 2-0. Took game 1 easily after dropping double bridge. Game 2 got bridge down easy, keeping Golgari Charm in hand just in case of a stony silence. Had one big fight over the seal of primodirum on top of his deck that I won. He never saw any more of his sideboard stuff. Quite a bit of sodium off that guy.
I'm liking Magus of the Tabernacle less and less in the main. Moved it to the side and brought in copy 3 of Surgical to the mainboard. Considered the third Pithing needle instead but Surgical is more often a live card, and it's "free" to cast as well, making emptying the hand much easier.
Modern: Mono-Red Control, Lantern Control, Eldrazi Taxes, Skred Infect
Pauper: Affinity
EDH: Gaddock Teeg Kithkin Tribal, Meren
Legacy: 8 Rack, Omnitell (Both in progress)
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
Round 1, Eldrazi Tron 0-2. Game 1 was a blow out, but game 2 was much closer. In the end I had to cast lantern into Chalice on 1 to keep my hand empty and never saw another after I Aburpt Decayed the chalice. He found Ulamog and it was all over after that.
Round 2, Grixis Delver 0-2. Turn 2 Tasigur both games. Game 2 I established a pretty hard lock on his draws and had bridge down but he was able to cryptic bounce bridge swing, then next turn Snappy Cryptic Bounce bridge.
Round 3: no idea what this guy was on, he knew I was on lantern and conceded the round before we even rolled dice.
Round 4: BW Eldrazi 2-0. Landed bridge early game 1, milled his Anguished Unmaking and he had no other answers. Game 2 saw all 4 bridges, milled both stony silences and used lost legacy on anguished unmaking to draw the concession.
Modern: Mono-Red Control, Lantern Control, Eldrazi Taxes, Skred Infect
Pauper: Affinity
EDH: Gaddock Teeg Kithkin Tribal, Meren
Legacy: 8 Rack, Omnitell (Both in progress)
link for those interested
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
let me know your progress reedy i really wanna know.
MODERN – LANTERN (aka Fateseal or Barbershop)
Primer – Subreddit – Facebook – Decklist – Gameplay
Thnkr's Content: Gameplay – Datasheet
Each eye sees a different possibility for tomorrow.
CWUBBCCCCCCCBGBGBGCCCCCCCGGURC
Jank Alert: I'm really tempted to run some sort of Platinum Angel + Padeem, Consul of Innovation + Lightning Greaves combo, just for fun. It probably wouldn't do any good, but... meh, it'd be cool.
MODERN – LANTERN (aka Fateseal or Barbershop)
Primer – Subreddit – Facebook – Decklist – Gameplay
Thnkr's Content: Gameplay – Datasheet
Each eye sees a different possibility for tomorrow.
CWUBBCCCCCCCBGBGBGCCCCCCCGGURC
Why did you need to keep your hand empty against Eldrazi Tron? The smallest creature they normally have has a power of 3.
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
Modern: Mono-Red Control, Lantern Control, Eldrazi Taxes, Skred Infect
Pauper: Affinity
EDH: Gaddock Teeg Kithkin Tribal, Meren
Legacy: 8 Rack, Omnitell (Both in progress)