So I get that sleight is better opening hand. But I was not having mana issues at all rather I was having problems with ad nauseam at the bottom of lib and sometimes spoilsing away my win. Peer helps with all of this and in discard matchups I board it out for painful truth's and leyline. I think boarding out artifact mana, in order to keep soh is counterintuitive, since it will likely make your opener worse. Been having a lot of success with this build. I think I will stick with it.
Obviously do what works for you. But to combat confirmation bias, I would encourage you to actively pay attention to one-land opening hand situations (or situations without a bloom in the opener) and consider the effect Sleight would have in those spots. That doesn't mean you should necessarily change the list, just consider it and be aware of spots where you can see Sleight's strengths, since you already are aware of places where Peer is strong.
As for sideboarding, it's not that I'm boarding out artifact mana in order to keep Sleight of Hand, I'm typically boarding out some amount of artifact mana because it isn't as useful in the post-board games against what I'm playing against. For example, getting a Pentad Prism Abrupt Decayed tends to suck and invalidate a chunk of your hand, so I usually shave some number of those against Jund. Similarly, getting Lotus Bloom remanded is the worst feeling ever, so those get shaved on against decks with Remand. I'm also not often bringing in more than 4-6 cards, so shaving 1 or 2 of a few different cards is all that is needed. No need to completely dilute one plan or another just for sideboard cards.
Obviously do what works for you. But to combat confirmation bias, I would encourage you to actively pay attention to one-land opening hand situations (or situations without a bloom in the opener) and consider the effect Sleight would have in those spots. That doesn't mean you should necessarily change the list, just consider it and be aware of spots where you can see Sleight's strengths, since you already are aware of places where Peer is strong.
As for sideboarding, it's not that I'm boarding out artifact mana in order to keep Sleight of Hand, I'm typically boarding out some amount of artifact mana because it isn't as useful in the post-board games against what I'm playing against. For example, getting a Pentad Prism Abrupt Decayed tends to suck and invalidate a chunk of your hand, so I usually shave some number of those against Jund. Similarly, getting Lotus Bloom remanded is the worst feeling ever, so those get shaved on against decks with Remand. I'm also not often bringing in more than 4-6 cards, so shaving 1 or 2 of a few different cards is all that is needed. No need to completely dilute one plan or another just for sideboard cards.
I will start watching for situations where sleight is better. I can see where having the combo in hand peer is basically useless. Maybe 2-2 of peer and soh is best.
Hi everyone first post to this primer, I've been playing modern now for about 2 years and for the past year I have played nothing but grishoalbrand. Now with dredge on the rise and graveyard hate being at an all time high I have made the swap to ad nauseam and all I can say is that this deck is unreal. the list I was drawn to was Alessandro Casamenti's which he used to win WMCQ Rome, the reason I'm posting this comment though is focused on the sideboard. I have been trying to make alterations and I have looked at many lists through this primer my meta has 1 infect player that I hope to dodge and a fair few combo players grishoalbrand,dredge,restore balance,living end and Cheerios and then stock standard jund affinity and burn. Not a lot of control and at least 3 bant eldrazi players. With so many options in terms of Colour I'm finding it hard to make a somewhat stock list which I fell comfortable taking any help would be much appreciated.
Hi everyone first post to this primer, I've been playing modern now for about 2 years and for the past year I have played nothing but grishoalbrand. Now with dredge on the rise and graveyard hate being at an all time high I have made the swap to ad nauseam and all I can say is that this deck is unreal. the list I was drawn to was Alessandro Casamenti's which he used to win WMCQ Rome, the reason I'm posting this comment though is focused on the sideboard. I have been trying to make alterations and I have looked at many lists through this primer my meta has 1 infect player that I hope to dodge and a fair few combo players grishoalbrand,dredge,restore balance,living end and Cheerios and then stock standard jund affinity and burn. Not a lot of control and at least 3 bant eldrazi players. With so many options in terms of Colour I'm finding it hard to make a somewhat stock list which I fell comfortable taking any help would be much appreciated.
If you're just starting out, try the peer/teachings list. That's typically the easiest to learn. It's not worse than the spoils variant, just a little slower. The spoils variant is a bit more skill intensive and requires remembering your deck list very well.
About Spellskite : it's the best card against Infect, it shuts them down, and is also great against Burn. It provides a great blocker also and neutralizes lots of spells. It's really a great card, better than some fog. I'd say that having 3 Spellskite and 2 Hurkyl's Recall is probably a must!
i might goldfish some hands with peer through depths over sleight of hand. im also curious if anticipate can replace sleight of hand, as pentad prism is the only other 2 drop competing on the curve.
i still really like 4 phyrexian unlife and 4 spoils in the deck.
turn 1 sleight of hand grabbing lotus bloom, and keeping one landers, or hands that are heavy in scry lands, are probably reasons i will still keep 4 sleight of hand mainboard. and i generally dont board out more than 2.
I've just won the pptq at my LGS with a my particular Peer/Teachings list:
// Deck: AdN (60)
// Lands
3 City of Brass
3 Darkslick Shores
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Island
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Plains
3 Seachrome Coast
2 Temple of Deceit
2 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
// Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
// Spells
4 Lotus Bloom
3 Pact of Negation
4 Angel's Grace
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Pentad Prism
2 Peer Through Depths
4 Phyrexian Unlife
2 Lightning Storm
1 Mystical Teachings
4 Ad Nauseam
(Apologies, I have been messing around with HTML(?) codes but I can't get it to work. I'm afraid I'm both stupid and lazy to read the FAQ)
The deck is insane, I have no doubt about that, but the Infect matchup keeps being unwinnable. No matter how you shape the sideboard.
Hope you guys find the list interesting :)Looking forward to hear from you! Any advice is much appreciated.
I am also thinking about switching to Wish version. Spoils one was not made for me, I have been playing it for the last 2 months and it seems to me like 'too much stick to the plan'. I rather prefer to search straight away for the card or look at the top 5 EoT. But this is just my personal opinion I have also tried Dark Petition and Bring to Light without any kind of success.
This is a really sweet list! Congrats on taking down a PPTQ. Being on Peer / Teaching since like 5-6 months, the list seems really balanced! I like to see Mikokoro and Urborg, would like to see Oboro and Tolaria for more tech against Jund and control also
The sideboard is also very interesting : Sudden Shock for Infect, that's a good idea, but I still think Spellskite is the best card against them. I'm not sold on Dispel (maybe a split with Pact of Negation would be more convenient, but if your meta is filled with UWR Control, Scapeshift and Esper Control, then I get the idea)!
I went 5-0 with this list last night facing Burn,Jund,Esper Control,Nahiri & Affinity using.
Creatures:
1 Lab Maniac
4Simian Spirit Guide
Spells:
4 Pentad Prism
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Angels Grace
4 Serum Visions
4 Ad Nauseam
3 Phyrexian Unlife
3 Bring to Light
3 Pact of Negation
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Lightning Storm
Land:
4 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Temple of Epiphany
2 Seachrome Coast
3 Temple of Deceit
3 Temple of Enlightenment
Board:
1 Boseiju
3 Ethereal Haze
1 Slaughter Games
1 Pact of Negation
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Painful Truths
1 Patricians Scorn
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyls Recall
4 Leyline of Sanctity
This is a really sweet list! Congrats on taking down a PPTQ. Being on Peer / Teaching since like 5-6 months, the list seems really balanced! I like to see Mikokoro and Urborg, would like to see Oboro and Tolaria for more tech against Jund and control also
The sideboard is also very interesting : Sudden Shock for Infect, that's a good idea, but I still think Spellskite is the best card against them. I'm not sold on Dispel (maybe a split with Pact of Negation would be more convenient, but if your meta is filled with UWR Control, Scapeshift and Esper Control, then I get the idea)!
Cheers!
To be honest, Dispel didn't shine on any matchup I have played. I will probably come back to Pact of Negation or I will maybe run 1 Dispel just to have a cheap counter w/o conditions. It needs more testing.
About the manabase, it is well tested and works perfect for me. Number of lands that enter untapped, the colors they produce and the number of Scrylands.
Similar to you, I'm not sold on Oboro, I could understand why is it played, but IMO it is not worthy enough. It is relevant only in some matchups (BGx, discard) in corner cases, under very specific conditions. About Tolaria... land that enters tapped, if I'm playing 20 lands I don't want this to be in my deck. Even if it has a cool ability. I'd play it as the 21st land, but since I'm on Peer/Teachings and not playing Slaughter Pact maindeck I don't consider playing it. Urborg just make Gemstone not to die after 3 uses and also fixes some mana issues, I wouldn't leave home w/o it. And Mikokoro... is just too powerful, it made me win so many games in so many ways: drawing scried(?) card, working on card advantage and filtering/sculpting hand or just 'topdecking'
I also found really useful to play 2 Lightning Storm MD, it acted as removal several times last weekend.
Labman was never sided in, and the sideboard in general was the most difficult part to set up for me.
What would you play instead of Dispel? I'm pretty convinced about the rest, but I have 2-3 slots floating. 1-1 split between Darkness/Ethereal Haze? I used to play 3 Ethereal in the past, and it is a great card, but I found 3 too many of them.
What do you guys think of torrential gearhulk that just got spoiled today? You can use it combo at instant speed given an ad naus in the graveyard, and works as a back up win-con body as well short of artifact removal game 2/3.
I like the idea, but I don't think this is the deck for it. For starters, Platinum Emperion doesn't help against infect, since they aren't changing our life total anyway. Platinum Angel works there, but also very likely means that you wind up at a negative life total before you are necessarily ready to go off, which opens you up to losing to creature removal.
The biggest issue, however, is what do you cut? The main deck is pretty streamlined and there are very few flex spots. Additionally, any Madcap Experiment that you draw after the first one are just completely dead cards, which makes it awkward to play 4 of them, while at the same time playing fewer than 4 means you are less likely to find it when you need it.
Edit: And I completely forgot the even bigger reason this doesn't work here: It requires you to not play any other artifacts, which means no Pentad Prism or Lotus Bloom.
As for sideboarding, it's not that I'm boarding out artifact mana in order to keep Sleight of Hand, I'm typically boarding out some amount of artifact mana because it isn't as useful in the post-board games against what I'm playing against. For example, getting a Pentad Prism Abrupt Decayed tends to suck and invalidate a chunk of your hand, so I usually shave some number of those against Jund. Similarly, getting Lotus Bloom remanded is the worst feeling ever, so those get shaved on against decks with Remand. I'm also not often bringing in more than 4-6 cards, so shaving 1 or 2 of a few different cards is all that is needed. No need to completely dilute one plan or another just for sideboard cards.
I will start watching for situations where sleight is better. I can see where having the combo in hand peer is basically useless. Maybe 2-2 of peer and soh is best.
If you're just starting out, try the peer/teachings list. That's typically the easiest to learn. It's not worse than the spoils variant, just a little slower. The spoils variant is a bit more skill intensive and requires remembering your deck list very well.
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
STANDARD
UB Midrange
Modern
U-Tron
Which is very true. I usually side out Prisms for that very reason.
STANDARD
UB Midrange
Modern
U-Tron
i still really like 4 phyrexian unlife and 4 spoils in the deck.
turn 1 sleight of hand grabbing lotus bloom, and keeping one landers, or hands that are heavy in scry lands, are probably reasons i will still keep 4 sleight of hand mainboard. and i generally dont board out more than 2.
STANDARD
UB Midrange
Modern
U-Tron
I've just won the pptq at my LGS with a my particular Peer/Teachings list:
// Deck: AdN (60)
// Lands
3 City of Brass
3 Darkslick Shores
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Island
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Plains
3 Seachrome Coast
2 Temple of Deceit
2 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
// Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
// Spells
4 Lotus Bloom
3 Pact of Negation
4 Angel's Grace
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Pentad Prism
2 Peer Through Depths
4 Phyrexian Unlife
2 Lightning Storm
1 Mystical Teachings
4 Ad Nauseam
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact
SB: 2 Dispel
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Laboratory Maniac
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 2 Sudden Shock
SB: 1 Patrician's Scorn
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
(Apologies, I have been messing around with HTML(?) codes but I can't get it to work. I'm afraid I'm both stupid and lazy to read the FAQ)
The deck is insane, I have no doubt about that, but the Infect matchup keeps being unwinnable. No matter how you shape the sideboard.
Hope you guys find the list interesting :)Looking forward to hear from you! Any advice is much appreciated.
I am also thinking about switching to Wish version. Spoils one was not made for me, I have been playing it for the last 2 months and it seems to me like 'too much stick to the plan'. I rather prefer to search straight away for the card or look at the top 5 EoT. But this is just my personal opinion I have also tried Dark Petition and Bring to Light without any kind of success.
Cheers!
The sideboard is also very interesting : Sudden Shock for Infect, that's a good idea, but I still think Spellskite is the best card against them. I'm not sold on Dispel (maybe a split with Pact of Negation would be more convenient, but if your meta is filled with UWR Control, Scapeshift and Esper Control, then I get the idea)!
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Creatures:
1 Lab Maniac
4Simian Spirit Guide
Spells:
4 Pentad Prism
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Angels Grace
4 Serum Visions
4 Ad Nauseam
3 Phyrexian Unlife
3 Bring to Light
3 Pact of Negation
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Lightning Storm
Land:
4 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Temple of Epiphany
2 Seachrome Coast
3 Temple of Deceit
3 Temple of Enlightenment
Board:
1 Boseiju
3 Ethereal Haze
1 Slaughter Games
1 Pact of Negation
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Painful Truths
1 Patricians Scorn
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyls Recall
4 Leyline of Sanctity
STANDARD
UB Midrange
Modern
U-Tron
To be honest, Dispel didn't shine on any matchup I have played. I will probably come back to Pact of Negation or I will maybe run 1 Dispel just to have a cheap counter w/o conditions. It needs more testing.
About the manabase, it is well tested and works perfect for me. Number of lands that enter untapped, the colors they produce and the number of Scrylands.
Similar to you, I'm not sold on Oboro, I could understand why is it played, but IMO it is not worthy enough. It is relevant only in some matchups (BGx, discard) in corner cases, under very specific conditions. About Tolaria... land that enters tapped, if I'm playing 20 lands I don't want this to be in my deck. Even if it has a cool ability. I'd play it as the 21st land, but since I'm on Peer/Teachings and not playing Slaughter Pact maindeck I don't consider playing it. Urborg just make Gemstone not to die after 3 uses and also fixes some mana issues, I wouldn't leave home w/o it. And Mikokoro... is just too powerful, it made me win so many games in so many ways: drawing scried(?) card, working on card advantage and filtering/sculpting hand or just 'topdecking'
I also found really useful to play 2 Lightning Storm MD, it acted as removal several times last weekend.
Labman was never sided in, and the sideboard in general was the most difficult part to set up for me.
What would you play instead of Dispel? I'm pretty convinced about the rest, but I have 2-3 slots floating. 1-1 split between Darkness/Ethereal Haze? I used to play 3 Ethereal in the past, and it is a great card, but I found 3 too many of them.
Cheers!
The biggest issue, however, is what do you cut? The main deck is pretty streamlined and there are very few flex spots. Additionally, any Madcap Experiment that you draw after the first one are just completely dead cards, which makes it awkward to play 4 of them, while at the same time playing fewer than 4 means you are less likely to find it when you need it.
Edit: And I completely forgot the even bigger reason this doesn't work here: It requires you to not play any other artifacts, which means no Pentad Prism or Lotus Bloom.