On the "alternative threat" discussion, how would something like Karn or Ugin be compared to Grave Titan? Even thinking about Dragonlord Kolaghan. Can assassinate a Lily on the board immediately if that's an issue or pressure the opponent if not. Will likely prevent opponent from casting anything after getting 1 hit in if their graveyard is sufficiently stocked.
Edit: Ignore that last suggestion. I blame sickness. Didn't realize it only affected creatures and pws, and theres little reason for our deck to have put either in their graveyard.
@BatHickey - i'd like to understand your rationale better. you are saying win on fourth turn via lab maniac against an opponent who also has 3/4 pact of negation, 3 spoils, a boseiju, 1/2 thoughtseize with 4 angel's grace as insurance. in my experience, whoever has an early grace or more pacts to stop the opposing ad naus player's combo will be at an advantage. it is a waiting game for the mirror match with both players having unlife in play. whoever has more mana and can force the action with 1/2 ad nauseams or extra spoils (for pact of negation on a counter war) will win this match. the lab maniac is the only viable win condition of course and whoever has the worst cards exiled with spoils can also dictate what other answers / threats are still in your opponent's hand / deck.
the player who taps out without representing white mana for angel's grace will definitely lose IF they go with the lightning storm kill. so you don't just slam unlife on turn 3 and leave yourself exposed (unless you have a pact of negation). since whoever successfully resolves ad nauseam first is the clear winner being able to sculpt the perfect 7 to stop the opposing player from comboing. now you're both waiting who will cast ad nauseam first. of course you can just cast ad nauseam while on the stack and then get your 4 pacts. the monkeys represent the clock wherein you are forcing the opponent to combo with whatever he has in his hand even if that takes 10+ turns. the creeping tar pits help since they can just trade off their monkeys with yours and the tar pit gives you 1 more threat (which is also unblockable) and a faster clock. i just included the tar pit since knowing i would be facing a lot of BGX decks and a fellow ad nauseam player.
I've been reading this forum for a few months now. I picked up Ad Nauseam as my second Modern deck, after Burn, and I really fell in love with it. I figured it was time to register here since this primer really helped me step up my game and understand the deck. I still have a lot to learn but I've really enjoyed it a lot so far. My first list wasn't very optimized and I was running Peer / Teachings suite minus Spoils of the Vault. I saw where Danny Spencer had a good performance at SCG Columbus, I think it was, and started running his list since it seemed more standard and refined.
I know it's common knowledge by now but I figured I would share my input. I don't really see anything that needs to altered and I really like Spoils of the Vault. It's killed me a few times but it still adds a really interesting dynamic to the deck. High risk and high reward. Ironically enough this is my first combo deck. I started playing Magic two years ago but mostly stuck with Pauper and preferred aggro decks. I only play on MODO since there isn't an LGS for a few hours of me but I am planning on doing some leagues this year.
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Modern URGifts StormUR URBlue MoonUR URKiln FiendUR
I like this list, pretty stock, but I don't like the 2 Crovax, Ascendant Hero in sideboard, You will face a lot of BGx deck on MODO so Grave Titan seems much better
don't be afraid of make league, personally I never make less than 3-2 So I can again replay the league for free.
@BatHickey - i'd like to understand your rationale better. you are saying win on fourth turn via lab maniac against an opponent who also has 3/4 pact of negation, 3 spoils, a boseiju, 1/2 thoughtseize with 4 angel's grace as insurance. in my experience, whoever has an early grace or more pacts to stop the opposing ad naus player's combo will be at an advantage. it is a waiting game for the mirror match with both players having unlife in play. whoever has more mana and can force the action with 1/2 ad nauseams or extra spoils (for pact of negation on a counter war) will win this match. the lab maniac is the only viable win condition of course and whoever has the worst cards exiled with spoils can also dictate what other answers / threats are still in your opponent's hand / deck.
the player who taps out without representing white mana for angel's grace will definitely lose IF they go with the lightning storm kill. so you don't just slam unlife on turn 3 and leave yourself exposed (unless you have a pact of negation). since whoever successfully resolves ad nauseam first is the clear winner being able to sculpt the perfect 7 to stop the opposing player from comboing. now you're both waiting who will cast ad nauseam first. of course you can just cast ad nauseam while on the stack and then get your 4 pacts. the monkeys represent the clock wherein you are forcing the opponent to combo with whatever he has in his hand even if that takes 10+ turns. the creeping tar pits help since they can just trade off their monkeys with yours and the tar pit gives you 1 more threat (which is also unblockable) and a faster clock. i just included the tar pit since knowing i would be facing a lot of BGX decks and a fellow ad nauseam player.
I love thinking about the mirror match, I remember going into a 4th round at a GP side event 4-0 and getting the mirror match and in game 3 I cast unlife on turn 4 leaving 1 white open as a bluff and holding 2 pact of negation, 1 slaughter pact and 1 Ad Nauseam in my hand, he had already used 1 pact and more than likely sided one out so I was most likely going to win next turn.
What my opponent did next really surprised me considering I had an unlife on the board, he went for ad nauseam (no idea why I didn't counter it) and cast lightning storm... I didn't need to use a single pact. He just scooped up his cards and that was it...
How does an Ad Nauseam player miss an unlife on the board? :/
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When the task spilled over into undeath, he stopped calling it his life's work.
Decks
Standard: GBGB EnergyGB GRGR EnergyGR
Modern: RBUWAd NauseamRBUW GRGR TitanshiftGR UBLUE STEEEEEELU UR Storm U Turbo Turns
Against mill if I can get an unlife out and have a pact in hand I like to spoils for Lab Maniac
Otherwise Leylines in game 2 and 3 is almost GG for them
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When the task spilled over into undeath, he stopped calling it his life's work.
Decks
Standard: GBGB EnergyGB GRGR EnergyGR
Modern: RBUWAd NauseamRBUW GRGR TitanshiftGR UBLUE STEEEEEELU UR Storm U Turbo Turns
Copying this post I also put on reddit, covers Crovax and the other commonly used beaters out of the Sideboard:
Crovax: Solely for the Infect matchup. Unlike something like Night of Souls' Betrayal he can actually beat them to death and is nearly impossible for them to answer. Night just eats a Nature's Claim (which they always bring in against your Unlife, Prism, Bloom and possible Spellskites) and they rebuild/kill you with Inkmoth.
Grave Titan: Solely for the Jund/GBx matchup, in addition to what everyone else said he's resilient to a Liliana -2 and is just bigger than anything they're doing. Again, can win the game on his own.
Dromoka: People bring it in against control. Unlike the other two, though, if he eats a removal spell on their upkeep you didn't get any value out of him + he's harder to cast in a traditional spoils build. (You can probably tell I'm not a fan. Bring in Boseiju instead.)
The dirty secret: The problem with all of these cards is that their mana costs are prohibitive, and will require you to cash in Artifact mana to cast them while they're relevant. This can put your mana development so far behind that you'll basically never be able to combo out and now must rely on these creatures to win you the game. It's definitely a risk to rely on them, and you really need to know when to go "all in" on creature beats to win an otherwise unwinnable game.
Infect is hands down the hardest matchup you'll face. Crovax + Darkness/Ethereal Haze give you a fighting chance, but some people just write it off as hopeless and pray to dodge it.
Looking over the results from Regionals you see exactly 1 Infect deck made a top 8 anywhere, while 9 Jund decks did. If you're running any of these creatures in your board right now I would put my faith in Grave Titan.
Sorry to get back to you way late on this--I actually played the mirror last night and won 2-1 and only because lab man is only in my side.
I don't just jam an unlife turn 3 without knowing the opponent doesn't have the mana to go off--but I did know that I was safe a full turn unless he used multiple simians to fuel the ad nauseam.
I really think that unlife/lab man is the combo you've got to go for--everything else is just an inefficient way to win. You need 5 lands to swing with a tarpit once given that you need the white up too still, and simians just don't get there unless your opponent combos off with an unlife and somehow can't put together a win after you've already done the hard work of bringing yourself into the negatives.
My opponent brought in thoughtseizes and I did not--I think that given the number of cantrips we both run its not actually worth it because its so easy to keep multiple graces in hand or still have/find one unless the thoughtseizing player is seeing if the coast is clear AND has enough mana just in case I did have two graces. If you seize it should be on the turn you win or set up 'the lab man/stacked hand' lock.
I was also advantaged against him as I was on spoils--in our game 2 I spoils'd for my second pact when he tried to resolve a lab man earlier than after the full combo turn and he couldn't win afterwards.
Correct--I favor conflagrate in the main in a heavy BGx meta (which I play in) over lab man. Usually I don't run lab man at all--since I never see leylines, and too rarely see infinite life.
If your all in on storm/conflagrate you can always auto side in 1x scorn. I'm still using lab man personally (won 2 games with him tonight) but I have tried the 2x burn spell version and I like its resilience to spoils shenanigans.
Any news for GP Vancouver or Brisbane? I know that Joe Lam is not on Bring to Light Ad Nauseam for the tournament (Death's Shadow instead) and I don't think Wedges (Matthew Hare) is up there even tough he's from down under.
About Vancouver, I don't know who drove there. I didn't go, wasn't able to make it this year.
I usually play scorn--but often I'm bringing it in for surprise killing a stony silence or either of the playable eidelons--leylines just aren't that common to face in my experience. Scorn for leyline specifically is wasting a slot on a problem card that 'doesn't exist'. The last time I saw leyline of sanctity was GP pittzburg like two years ago, and I only saw it against one opponent (who I did bring in scorn against so it was fine).
1)Latley i struggle vs rg breach and rg titanshift .decks. (As well als grixis reanimator and rb reanimator but i dont see much hope in these mu)
What is ur SB plan against them? any specail techs or just Leylines and Thoughtseize
2)In an open and unknown meta what would be a gut add as my 15th sideboard card.
1)Latley i struggle vs rg breach and rg titanshift .decks. (As well als grixis reanimator and rb reanimator but i dont see much hope in these mu)
What is ur SB plan against them? any specail techs or just Leylines and Thoughtseize
2)In an open and unknown meta what would be a gut add as my 15th sideboard card.
Have you considered a 1-of Surgical Extraction or Slaughter Games type of card? I personally run a 1-of Collective Brutality to support my 2x Thoughtseize.
Dont meantion that card please.
Surgical extraction has been a nightmare for me lately. Turn 1 seize, pay 2 life surgical ad nauseum is absurd, and we just lose on turn 1
I played my first league on MTGO the other day. I decided to go with Ad Nauseam and the first two decks had Surgical Extraction which destroyed me. I tried to hold on but I couldn't land a hand with Pact + Grace. I ended up going 0-3 my first three games since it was nothing but the latter card, Eidolon of Rhetoric, discard and Kataki, War's Wage. I won my last two matches but man it was brutal.
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Edit: Ignore that last suggestion. I blame sickness. Didn't realize it only affected creatures and pws, and theres little reason for our deck to have put either in their graveyard.
the player who taps out without representing white mana for angel's grace will definitely lose IF they go with the lightning storm kill. so you don't just slam unlife on turn 3 and leave yourself exposed (unless you have a pact of negation). since whoever successfully resolves ad nauseam first is the clear winner being able to sculpt the perfect 7 to stop the opposing player from comboing. now you're both waiting who will cast ad nauseam first. of course you can just cast ad nauseam while on the stack and then get your 4 pacts. the monkeys represent the clock wherein you are forcing the opponent to combo with whatever he has in his hand even if that takes 10+ turns. the creeping tar pits help since they can just trade off their monkeys with yours and the tar pit gives you 1 more threat (which is also unblockable) and a faster clock. i just included the tar pit since knowing i would be facing a lot of BGX decks and a fellow ad nauseam player.
"He traded sand for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand."
—Afari, Tales
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=111046
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
Creatures
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Enchantments
4 Phyrexian Unlife
Instants
4 Ad Nauseam
4 Angel's Grace
1 Lightning Storm
3 Pact of Negation
3 Spoils of the Vault
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Plains
Lands
3 City of Brass
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Dreadship Reef
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Seachrome Coast
4 Temple of Deceit
1 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Echoing Truth
2 Holy Day
1 Pact of Negation
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Wear
2 Crovax, Ascendant Hero
2 Thoughtseize
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
I know it's common knowledge by now but I figured I would share my input. I don't really see anything that needs to altered and I really like Spoils of the Vault. It's killed me a few times but it still adds a really interesting dynamic to the deck. High risk and high reward. Ironically enough this is my first combo deck. I started playing Magic two years ago but mostly stuck with Pauper and preferred aggro decks. I only play on MODO since there isn't an LGS for a few hours of me but I am planning on doing some leagues this year.
URGifts StormUR
URBlue MoonUR
URKiln FiendUR
BURStormBUR
I like this list, pretty stock, but I don't like the 2 Crovax, Ascendant Hero in sideboard, You will face a lot of BGx deck on MODO so Grave Titan seems much better
don't be afraid of make league, personally I never make less than 3-2 So I can again replay the league for free.
RG Titan Scapeshift GR
UBWAd Nauseam WBU
CEldrazi TronC
I love thinking about the mirror match, I remember going into a 4th round at a GP side event 4-0 and getting the mirror match and in game 3 I cast unlife on turn 4 leaving 1 white open as a bluff and holding 2 pact of negation, 1 slaughter pact and 1 Ad Nauseam in my hand, he had already used 1 pact and more than likely sided one out so I was most likely going to win next turn.
What my opponent did next really surprised me considering I had an unlife on the board, he went for ad nauseam (no idea why I didn't counter it) and cast lightning storm... I didn't need to use a single pact. He just scooped up his cards and that was it...
How does an Ad Nauseam player miss an unlife on the board? :/
Decks
Standard:
GBGB EnergyGB
GRGR EnergyGR
Modern:
RBUWAd NauseamRBUW
GRGR TitanshiftGR
UBLUE STEEEEEELU
UR StormU Turbo Turnsagreed
if you are not using monkeys you are doing it wrong.
another mu worth considering the monkey way is against mill imo
Otherwise Leylines in game 2 and 3 is almost GG for them
Decks
Standard:
GBGB EnergyGB
GRGR EnergyGR
Modern:
RBUWAd NauseamRBUW
GRGR TitanshiftGR
UBLUE STEEEEEELU
UR StormU Turbo TurnsCopying this post I also put on reddit, covers Crovax and the other commonly used beaters out of the Sideboard:
Crovax: Solely for the Infect matchup. Unlike something like Night of Souls' Betrayal he can actually beat them to death and is nearly impossible for them to answer. Night just eats a Nature's Claim (which they always bring in against your Unlife, Prism, Bloom and possible Spellskites) and they rebuild/kill you with Inkmoth.
Grave Titan: Solely for the Jund/GBx matchup, in addition to what everyone else said he's resilient to a Liliana -2 and is just bigger than anything they're doing. Again, can win the game on his own.
Dromoka: People bring it in against control. Unlike the other two, though, if he eats a removal spell on their upkeep you didn't get any value out of him + he's harder to cast in a traditional spoils build. (You can probably tell I'm not a fan. Bring in Boseiju instead.)
The dirty secret: The problem with all of these cards is that their mana costs are prohibitive, and will require you to cash in Artifact mana to cast them while they're relevant. This can put your mana development so far behind that you'll basically never be able to combo out and now must rely on these creatures to win you the game. It's definitely a risk to rely on them, and you really need to know when to go "all in" on creature beats to win an otherwise unwinnable game.
Infect is hands down the hardest matchup you'll face. Crovax + Darkness/Ethereal Haze give you a fighting chance, but some people just write it off as hopeless and pray to dodge it.
Looking over the results from Regionals you see exactly 1 Infect deck made a top 8 anywhere, while 9 Jund decks did. If you're running any of these creatures in your board right now I would put my faith in Grave Titan.
I don't just jam an unlife turn 3 without knowing the opponent doesn't have the mana to go off--but I did know that I was safe a full turn unless he used multiple simians to fuel the ad nauseam.
I really think that unlife/lab man is the combo you've got to go for--everything else is just an inefficient way to win. You need 5 lands to swing with a tarpit once given that you need the white up too still, and simians just don't get there unless your opponent combos off with an unlife and somehow can't put together a win after you've already done the hard work of bringing yourself into the negatives.
My opponent brought in thoughtseizes and I did not--I think that given the number of cantrips we both run its not actually worth it because its so easy to keep multiple graces in hand or still have/find one unless the thoughtseizing player is seeing if the coast is clear AND has enough mana just in case I did have two graces. If you seize it should be on the turn you win or set up 'the lab man/stacked hand' lock.
I was also advantaged against him as I was on spoils--in our game 2 I spoils'd for my second pact when he tried to resolve a lab man earlier than after the full combo turn and he couldn't win afterwards.
You mean you won because you had Laboratory Maniac in the sideboard and not the main deck?
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
GRWNaya BurnGRW
GRWJundGRW
CAffinityC
UGUG EldraziUG
GRWBushwhacker ZooGRW
UBWRAd NauseamUBWR
Legacy
RBurnR
UBSneak & ShowUB
CEldrazi AggroC
About Vancouver, I don't know who drove there. I didn't go, wasn't able to make it this year.
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
1)Latley i struggle vs rg breach and rg titanshift .decks. (As well als grixis reanimator and rb reanimator but i dont see much hope in these mu)
What is ur SB plan against them? any specail techs or just Leylines and Thoughtseize
2)In an open and unknown meta what would be a gut add as my 15th sideboard card.
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Ad Nauseam
4 Angel's Grace
3 Pact of Negation
2 Spoils of the Vault
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Lightning Storm
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
2 Darkslick Shores
4 Seachrome Coast
2 Temple of Deceit
2 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Plains
4 Leyline of Sancitiy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ethernal Haze
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Disenchant
1 Echoing Truth
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Nephalia academy
1 Slaughter Pact
1 ???
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Have you considered a 1-of Surgical Extraction or Slaughter Games type of card? I personally run a 1-of Collective Brutality to support my 2x Thoughtseize.
Surgical extraction has been a nightmare for me lately. Turn 1 seize, pay 2 life surgical ad nauseum is absurd, and we just lose on turn 1
URGifts StormUR
URBlue MoonUR
URKiln FiendUR
BURStormBUR