tom, with 20 lands and 4 fetches, it seems you would be more dependent with at least 1 mana rock to go off in time. I'm curious to know if you have encountered losses via mana screws in situations wherein you are expecting a lotus bloom to come off suspend but an opponent casts a well-timed chalice of the void for 0 (or destroying your pentad prism) the turn before going off or maybe a stony silence? since peer through depths also doesn't allow you to get a land or even a mana rock to accelerate.
i'm asking this since I also want to try your fetchland-mystical build but I'm torn with the cash I need to spend with the shocks and fetches and oboro. does the 2/2 split of polluted delta and flooded strand matter?
how often do you transmute and what do you usually transmute for in your matches? slaughter pact, negation, lotus bloom? boseiju / different land?
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plays Ad Nauseam and Amulet Bloom in Modern
"He traded sand for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand."
—Afari, Tales
Also, how frequently does it occur that you don't have enough lands left in your deck to actually kill with Lightning Storm? Seems like it could get dicey if a game goes long.
Barring circumstances beyond your control (Spoils of the Vault), you can avoid this situation from happening by simply planning ahead and not playing out your lands past a certain point.
@ tw0_fac3 : I never faced mana issues with my manabase. It's conceived to be balanced and helps against bad matchups : BG/x with Oboro, Palace in the Clouds and Mikokoro, Center of the Sea for discard against Liliana and IoK / Thoughtseize. This helps a lot, more than Nephalia Academy. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth helps with fetches becase they become Swamp and this helps with situation where you're at 1 life and can't fetch ; same thing with Gemstone Mine when they are at 1 counter.
In regards of the fetches, a split 2/2 is good against Pithing Needle and for basics also. You can't fetch for Esper lands with only 4 Polluted Delta or 4 Flooded Strand
@ moxruby : I don't miss lands often, it happens 2 or 3 times out of more than like 900 games. It just doesn't happen because Conflagrate deals with that issue. It happened a lot more times when I was running Spoils of the Vault for like 3 months before making up my build with tech lands and Peer-Teachings.
I don't understand the Conflagrate remark. Is the Lighting Storm in the deck supposed to be a Conflag? I don't see it in your 75. It does look like your missing a card though 20 + 4 + 35 = 59
I don't understand the Conflagrate remark. Is the Lighting Storm in the deck supposed to be a Conflag? I don't see it in your 75. It does look like your missing a card though 20 + 4 + 35 = 59
I haven't updated the numbers in the list I ran. Here's my go-to list for most of the times :
I ran Laboratory Maniac main for a couple of months, but I prefer having him in the side. So that's pretty much the list I tuned for the year in order to find the perfect list for me. I just win through most stuff except Infect (because I don't want 4 Gut Shot and 4 Lose Hope to deal with it) and sometimes BG/x (but it's close to 50/50 with my list and all the tech lands + sideboard dedicated to it).
I didn't really listen to anyone about Lab Man : it was a sideboard choice for 13 of the 16 months I played the deck. He jumped in the main 60 when Coco was a thing mostly. Now, it's not useful for most of the reasons I stated pages ago.
this was the list I was running and my matchups were as follows.
Round 1 - Skred Red - Win - 2-0
Game 1 I combo'd out on turn 4 without an issue.
Game 2 Opponent kept a extremely loose hand which ended up punishing him in the long run.
Round 2 - Jund - Loss - 0-2
This matchup is difficult, my sideboard plan was to bring all the leylines, both Grave Titans along with some number of thoughtseizes (2 for this particular round).
Game 1 Liliana just took the game over and I could never recover from her.
Game 2 Opponent just had the nuts, turn 1 IoK taking my Angel's Grace, Turn 2 thoughtseize hitting Ad Nauseam then followed up with Surgical Extration on Ad Naus, turn 3 thoughtseize again hitting Grave Titan. I feel like I should've mulled until I hit a Leyline safe hand. But I felt pretty confident in my opponent not having the hand they actually had.
Round 3 - Soul Sisters - Win - 2-0
Game 1 and 2 were just going through the motions with Lab Man for the wins
Round 4 - G/W Tron - Win - 2-0
Glad I packed the thoughtseizes for this event after running into this matchup for the next two rounds.
Game 1 Simple win on turn 4 without my opponent had zero interaction with me
Game 2 it got a little more difficult but the thoughseize in my opening hand helped me get the win. Opponent kept a hand with only one way to find tron in which I ended up choking him on. Took the Sylvan Scrying from his hand and left him stranded with a Karn, Ancient Stirrings and zero eggs to help him fish for the additional tron pieces.
Round 5 - G/W Tron - Win - 2-0
Game 1 natural turn 3 win this game
Game 2 played through a Karn and ended up winning through a Lab Man.
Round 6 - Draw to make top 8
Quarterfinals - Merfolk - Win - 2-0
Game 1 opponent tapped out which allowed me to win during my following turn
Game 2 was a little more difficult, Opponent brought in several cards to help battle through the instant win. They were stuck on 1 island and was trying to figure out how they could get to Kira to help with Lightning Storm. I ended up having 2 Ad Nauseams to play through double Cursecatcher, 1 Ad Naus was cast on opponents turn when they were trying to float double blue with a Merrow Reejerey to help cast the Kira. Forced opponent to sac both cursecatchers with my pitching a SSG to the first one. Following turn I cast the second Ad Naus for the win.
Semifinals - Burn - Loss - 1-2
This was my round 6 opponent who I drew in with. I felt confident in this round because Burn is generally pretty easy for this deck.
Game 1 I just get blown out by my opponent and not running into a Unlife.
Game 2 I have double leyline and a Unlife in play, my opponent gets me down to 2 life before I draw into the Ad Nauseam to win the game
Game 3 I kept a extremely loose hand knowing that my opponent had destructive revelry in their deck. Kept 4 lands double Unlife and a Angel's Grace just hoping to draw into cantrips and combo pieces. Drew nothing but lands for 4 turns in a row while my opponent drew everything they needed.
Overall it was a great run with the deck, I've been playing the deck for a little over 2 years now.
Couple of questions regarding a few tiny tweaks you've made to the deck that I'd love to hear more about:
1, 21 lands, one of each basic, and then 5 temples w/ a tolaria instead?
2. A slaughter pact main over another spoils/peer/teachings?
3. Any guide to how you sideboard against some common match ups? You've got a very clean concise board--do you feel like there's a 16th card you'd want?
1. I've been running 21 lands for the past year, I need to switch it back to 20 seeing as the blue decks have been down lately. I used Tolaria west to help me out with find pacts if I needed them. 1 of each basic was sort of a last minute thing, I packed a swamp instead of a Mikokoto for the event to see how it would pan out for me, the reasoning for this was because I haven't seen a lot of Jund in my area the past couple of months so I thought I was safe(obviously not).
2. I like having the 1 slaughter pact in the main because it does help me a little with some of the quicker aggro decks, and seeing as I've been on the peers over spoils as of late I feel like it's a smart move or at least my games before hand felt fine with the one slaughter pact in the main, maybe it's incorrect but it hasn't really shown to be a problem for me yet.
3. I can post a sideboard guide soon(currently at work) but as far as a 16th card I could potentially want it would be a hurkyls recall. Lucky for me I dodged all the affinity in the room that day.
I made Top 4 of an event in my area yesterday (I'm in Japan and Christmas isn't a big deal here so yeah).
I played a carbon copy of the maindeck from the GP Winner, but I messed around with the sideboard.
This is what I played in my Sideboard:
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Ethereal Haze
1 Silence
1 Gigadrowse
1 Pure Intentions
1 Disenchant
1 Echoing Truth
2 Mystical Teachings
4 Leyline of Sanctity
I'm not an experienced Ad Nauseam player and I barely play Modern, so I imagine I could have made a better board. As it stands, there is usually one Infect player in my area, and there's a lot of discard. I hate losing to discard so I warped my board pretty badly to fight it. That being said, holy crap I did not understand how powerful Mystical Teachings is. My discard opponents were basically helpless if I was able to draw it.
I ultimately lost in the Semifinals to my friend playing an RUG Kiki-Jiki deck with Traverse the Ulvenwald that he brewed up (I mulliganed to 5 and couldn't recover).
One thing I do want to ask though is this: ...Is the Tron matchup *really* that good? I keep hearing people say that they just don't sideboard or even address the matchup in any way because it's that easy, but I always get messed up bad any time I play against the deck. It seems like my opponents always have Tron early and their threats are always disruptive in ways that line up perfectly with what I'm doing. I'm not sure I could say I'm super unlucky, so is there something about the matchup that you believe a new player may be doing wrong that can cause issues here?
Tron MU is realy good indeed. But as allways its looseable if tron is otp and just slams t3 karn AND afterwards another karn or ulamog. And u....just dont have discard, blooms coming or overall a bad hand.
If you get opening hand with Lotus Bloom it's hard to lose. If not things can get worse. Tron has tools to attack mana, fast Karn without Blooms is already really hard to recover, with Ulamog and Nature's Claims post side to stop Pentad Prism Tron can steal games. My plan is to be more aggressive with mulligans to find Lotus Bloom.
Went 5-0 with something different than what I play usually, so (1) 8 temples, (2) 4 fetches with (3) Peer Through Depths and Mystical Teachings. 2-1 (on the play) against Dredge, 2-0 (on the draw) against RG Tron, 2-1 on the draw against UW Control, 2-1 on the play against Merfolk and 2-0 on the play against Affinity.
3 2 Mystical Teachings and 1 Peer Through Depths and very different than a 2 Peer / 1 Teachings. It's not that slow, it's very powerful to tutor for anything needed. If feel that with the aggro meta, it's not a bad call to have 2 even if it seems slower than Peer. It's great agaisnt BG/x because the game gets longer and it's a great tech against them.
5 In the sideboard, 2 Lingering Souls is great to fight Infect and all aggro decks to stall the game. It's a great card and I took out Laboratory Maniac for the mainboard and took one fog out (Ethereal Haze).
Cheers and congrats to Namida and for the IQ top 8, great report!
One thing I do want to ask though is this: ...Is the Tron matchup *really* that good? I keep hearing people say that they just don't sideboard or even address the matchup in any way because it's that easy, but I always get messed up bad any time I play against the deck. It seems like my opponents always have Tron early and their threats are always disruptive in ways that line up perfectly with what I'm doing. I'm not sure I could say I'm super unlucky, so is there something about the matchup that you believe a new player may be doing wrong that can cause issues here?
I dont really think theres something to do here to be honest. Youre just super unlucky, just like me
Well i mean, if sideboards were 30 cards i would put something against tron, but we jut have 15 so we need to adress the worst matchups (exception being infect wich is too bad to even bother), and tron is clearly one of the best matchups (the RG version). Their interaction is very little and actually in g1 i dont even think they have a single instant spell in their deck. Of course being unlucky means, most rounds you face them they get tron on turn 3 and just destroy you with a karn on the pentad or land. But you cant buy luck, sadly
For me RG Tron tends to go like this: Did they get turn 3 Karn? If no, I win. If yes, did I suspend a bloom and have 3 lands on the table and an extra land/ssg in my hand or drawn on turn 4? If yes, I still win, if not, GG tron player. I will board in a thoughtseize to try and prevent turn three Karn but I believe we are heavily favored in this matchup. Another line of play is to pact their turn three karn and win on turn 4. Sometimes they will simply have early karn and you don't have what you need to fight through it but the simple fact that they can have the perfect hand and still lose shows how favorable the match is for us.
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Modern: UBWAd NauseamWBU URStormRU
EDH: BMikaeus the UnhallowedB RWAurelia, the WarleaderWR
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i'm asking this since I also want to try your fetchland-mystical build but I'm torn with the cash I need to spend with the shocks and fetches and oboro. does the 2/2 split of polluted delta and flooded strand matter?
how often do you transmute and what do you usually transmute for in your matches? slaughter pact, negation, lotus bloom? boseiju / different land?
"He traded sand for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand."
—Afari, Tales
Tolaria West helps with transmute for Pact of Negation, Slaughter Pact, Boseiju, Who Shelters All and Lotus Bloom mostly depending on the situation. In slow matchups, tranmute for Lotus Bloom can be useful on turn 2 with Simian Spirit Guide or turn 3. Against aggro, Slaughter Pact is great (Affinity for example or Zoo). Against control, transmute for Boseiju, Who Shelters All means an auto-win!
In regards of the fetches, a split 2/2 is good against Pithing Needle and for basics also. You can't fetch for Esper lands with only 4 Polluted Delta or 4 Flooded Strand
@ moxruby : I don't miss lands often, it happens 2 or 3 times out of more than like 900 games. It just doesn't happen because Conflagrate deals with that issue. It happened a lot more times when I was running Spoils of the Vault for like 3 months before making up my build with tech lands and Peer-Teachings.
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I haven't updated the numbers in the list I ran. Here's my go-to list for most of the times :
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Lands (20)
2 City of Brass
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Temple of Deceit
2 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Plains
1 Tolaria West
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
4 Ad Nauseam
4 Angel's Grace
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Pact of Negation
3 Phyrexian Unlife
2 Peer Through Depths
1 Conflagrate
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Lightning Storm
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Ethereal Haze
2 Thoughtseize
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Echoing Truth
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Patrician's Scorn
1 Silence
1 Supreme Verdict
I ran Laboratory Maniac main for a couple of months, but I prefer having him in the side. So that's pretty much the list I tuned for the year in order to find the perfect list for me. I just win through most stuff except Infect (because I don't want 4 Gut Shot and 4 Lose Hope to deal with it) and sometimes BG/x (but it's close to 50/50 with my list and all the tech lands + sideboard dedicated to it).
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=110460
this was the list I was running and my matchups were as follows.
Round 1 - Skred Red - Win - 2-0
Game 1 I combo'd out on turn 4 without an issue.
Game 2 Opponent kept a extremely loose hand which ended up punishing him in the long run.
Round 2 - Jund - Loss - 0-2
This matchup is difficult, my sideboard plan was to bring all the leylines, both Grave Titans along with some number of thoughtseizes (2 for this particular round).
Game 1 Liliana just took the game over and I could never recover from her.
Game 2 Opponent just had the nuts, turn 1 IoK taking my Angel's Grace, Turn 2 thoughtseize hitting Ad Nauseam then followed up with Surgical Extration on Ad Naus, turn 3 thoughtseize again hitting Grave Titan. I feel like I should've mulled until I hit a Leyline safe hand. But I felt pretty confident in my opponent not having the hand they actually had.
Round 3 - Soul Sisters - Win - 2-0
Game 1 and 2 were just going through the motions with Lab Man for the wins
Round 4 - G/W Tron - Win - 2-0
Glad I packed the thoughtseizes for this event after running into this matchup for the next two rounds.
Game 1 Simple win on turn 4 without my opponent had zero interaction with me
Game 2 it got a little more difficult but the thoughseize in my opening hand helped me get the win. Opponent kept a hand with only one way to find tron in which I ended up choking him on. Took the Sylvan Scrying from his hand and left him stranded with a Karn, Ancient Stirrings and zero eggs to help him fish for the additional tron pieces.
Round 5 - G/W Tron - Win - 2-0
Game 1 natural turn 3 win this game
Game 2 played through a Karn and ended up winning through a Lab Man.
Round 6 - Draw to make top 8
Quarterfinals - Merfolk - Win - 2-0
Game 1 opponent tapped out which allowed me to win during my following turn
Game 2 was a little more difficult, Opponent brought in several cards to help battle through the instant win. They were stuck on 1 island and was trying to figure out how they could get to Kira to help with Lightning Storm. I ended up having 2 Ad Nauseams to play through double Cursecatcher, 1 Ad Naus was cast on opponents turn when they were trying to float double blue with a Merrow Reejerey to help cast the Kira. Forced opponent to sac both cursecatchers with my pitching a SSG to the first one. Following turn I cast the second Ad Naus for the win.
Semifinals - Burn - Loss - 1-2
This was my round 6 opponent who I drew in with. I felt confident in this round because Burn is generally pretty easy for this deck.
Game 1 I just get blown out by my opponent and not running into a Unlife.
Game 2 I have double leyline and a Unlife in play, my opponent gets me down to 2 life before I draw into the Ad Nauseam to win the game
Game 3 I kept a extremely loose hand knowing that my opponent had destructive revelry in their deck. Kept 4 lands double Unlife and a Angel's Grace just hoping to draw into cantrips and combo pieces. Drew nothing but lands for 4 turns in a row while my opponent drew everything they needed.
Overall it was a great run with the deck, I've been playing the deck for a little over 2 years now.
Couple of questions regarding a few tiny tweaks you've made to the deck that I'd love to hear more about:
1, 21 lands, one of each basic, and then 5 temples w/ a tolaria instead?
2. A slaughter pact main over another spoils/peer/teachings?
3. Any guide to how you sideboard against some common match ups? You've got a very clean concise board--do you feel like there's a 16th card you'd want?
2. I like having the 1 slaughter pact in the main because it does help me a little with some of the quicker aggro decks, and seeing as I've been on the peers over spoils as of late I feel like it's a smart move or at least my games before hand felt fine with the one slaughter pact in the main, maybe it's incorrect but it hasn't really shown to be a problem for me yet.
3. I can post a sideboard guide soon(currently at work) but as far as a 16th card I could potentially want it would be a hurkyls recall. Lucky for me I dodged all the affinity in the room that day.
I played a carbon copy of the maindeck from the GP Winner, but I messed around with the sideboard.
This is what I played in my Sideboard:
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Ethereal Haze
1 Silence
1 Gigadrowse
1 Pure Intentions
1 Disenchant
1 Echoing Truth
2 Mystical Teachings
4 Leyline of Sanctity
I'm not an experienced Ad Nauseam player and I barely play Modern, so I imagine I could have made a better board. As it stands, there is usually one Infect player in my area, and there's a lot of discard. I hate losing to discard so I warped my board pretty badly to fight it. That being said, holy crap I did not understand how powerful Mystical Teachings is. My discard opponents were basically helpless if I was able to draw it.
I ultimately lost in the Semifinals to my friend playing an RUG Kiki-Jiki deck with Traverse the Ulvenwald that he brewed up (I mulliganed to 5 and couldn't recover).
One thing I do want to ask though is this: ...Is the Tron matchup *really* that good? I keep hearing people say that they just don't sideboard or even address the matchup in any way because it's that easy, but I always get messed up bad any time I play against the deck. It seems like my opponents always have Tron early and their threats are always disruptive in ways that line up perfectly with what I'm doing. I'm not sure I could say I'm super unlucky, so is there something about the matchup that you believe a new player may be doing wrong that can cause issues here?
Tron MU is realy good indeed. But as allways its looseable if tron is otp and just slams t3 karn AND afterwards another karn or ulamog. And u....just dont have discard, blooms coming or overall a bad hand.
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List :
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Laboratory Maniac
Spells (34)
4 Angel's Grace
4 Ad Nauseam
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
3 Phyrexian Unlife
2 Mystical Teachings
2 Pact of Negation
1 Lightning Storm
1 Peer Through Depths
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 City of Brass
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Tolaria West
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ethereal Haze
2 Lingering Souls
2 Thoughtseize
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Echoing Truth
1 Pact of Negation
1 Patrician's Scorn
1 Supreme Verdict
Notes:
1) 8 temples is great, better than 6, but not better or worse than 4.
2) I took out tech lands (Oboro, Palace in the Clouds and Mikokoro, Center of the Sea), they are the utility lands. Better to keep Tolaria West and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth .
3 2 Mystical Teachings and 1 Peer Through Depths and very different than a 2 Peer / 1 Teachings. It's not that slow, it's very powerful to tutor for anything needed. If feel that with the aggro meta, it's not a bad call to have 2 even if it seems slower than Peer. It's great agaisnt BG/x because the game gets longer and it's a great tech against them.
4 2 Pact of Negation instead of the usual 3 in the mainboard. The meta is not control-oriented, so Tolaria West + 2 Pacts is enough and if needed, Boseiju, Who Shelters All and 3rd Pact of Negation come after sideboarding.
5 In the sideboard, 2 Lingering Souls is great to fight Infect and all aggro decks to stall the game. It's a great card and I took out Laboratory Maniac for the mainboard and took one fog out (Ethereal Haze).
Cheers and congrats to Namida and for the IQ top 8, great report!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/whirofinvention.html
How likely could this be a 1-off or even 2-off in Ad Nauseam as a fetch for Lotus Bloom at the end of turn 3?!
(Apologies, spoiler season gets me hyped)
Decks
Standard:
GBGB EnergyGB
GRGR EnergyGR
Modern:
RBUWAd NauseamRBUW
GRGR TitanshiftGR
UBLUE STEEEEEELU
UR StormU Turbo TurnsI dont really think theres something to do here to be honest. Youre just super unlucky, just like me
Well i mean, if sideboards were 30 cards i would put something against tron, but we jut have 15 so we need to adress the worst matchups (exception being infect wich is too bad to even bother), and tron is clearly one of the best matchups (the RG version). Their interaction is very little and actually in g1 i dont even think they have a single instant spell in their deck. Of course being unlucky means, most rounds you face them they get tron on turn 3 and just destroy you with a karn on the pentad or land. But you cant buy luck, sadly
UBWAd NauseamWBU
URStormRU
EDH:
BMikaeus the UnhallowedB
RWAurelia, the WarleaderWR