MTG Salvation

Exploring the discard thing seems like something that should be talked about. I feel like it crept into lists without much discussion.

I tried an liked duress enough--I like that it doesn't cost life and I found myself wanting discard in general against decks duress basically would hit anything I was after post-board--I've never aimed a seize at a creature unless I was going to miss otherwise.

Seize hits more--but costs two life and I don't know what creatures I ever really need to take... hatebears but...

The question though is this: What's wrong with inquisition? What am I actually taking that costs more than 3? I don't see any hardcast leylines, I don't see cryptic being something I need to deal with via discard, I'm not worried about 4 drop creature threats--I'm not beating infect by taking a become immense anyway. IOK seems pretty ideal, especially in a fast meta.

---Right now I'm playing ANT in legacy--I'm thinking about running 4 gemstones and 4 city and playing a playset of abrupt decay in my sideboard. Will test and get back to you guys with some thoughts.

As far as IOK vs Duress; IOK can't hit Nahiri, Karn, Slaughter Games, Scapeshift, Through the Breach, Cryptic. I think that's pretty much it as far as cards that cost 4 or more that you'd potentially want to discard.

Inquisition seems much weaker vs Bant Eldrazi than Thoughtseize since you cant' take Thought-Knot Seer or Eldrazi Smasher.

This is exactly my point--all those can be hit by duress--but also I'm not scared enough of them to be bringing in discard anyway to deal with them.

Then--discarding vs bant eldrazi is also not what I want to be doing. Thoughtknot is annoying--but I'd rather just bring in the leylines against them.

I am scared of: abrupt decay, liliana, k-command, dispel, vendillion clique, destructive revelry, maelstrom pulse, sin collector, tidehollow sculler, hatebears in general, ect.

I played Ad Nauseam last weekend at a local LCQ for the RPTQ. I went 4-2 losing to Suicide Zoo and Lantern. The Suicide Zoo games were whatever, I had combo hands low on mana and kept on the hope of top decking blue sources in both. Draw no lands, win no games. The lantern matchup however was very interesting. I'd never played it before and I feel like I don't know how I'm supposed to side. I run a typical Spoils build with 4 Unlife on the main. My side looks like this:


Given that sideboard, how would you side for the Lantern matchup and why?

Also, I feel like Ad Nauseam is starting to pick up in popularity as more players come to the realisation this is a strong choice for the current meta. I haven't yet played a mirror, but I feel horribly unprepared for one. If you were going to side ANY 4 cards in post-board, what would you want?

Peeking at this thread again after a few months of trying to make a go of Esper Draw-Go. I've been playing this list at FnM for the last few months and getting generally decent results with it. The meta is full of Burn, 8-Whack, Co-Co (of all flavours), Titan Shift, and the occasional Tier-1 deck like Infect, Robots, Dredge or Jund. I've pretty much swapped out the Sleight of Hands for Glittering Wishes, and the Spoils of the Vaults for Bring to Lights, then fixed the mana base accordingly. Honestly, the deck runs amazingly smoothly. That said, my meta is largely devoid of control players, and discard spells of any kind are rare. My only really consistent loss usually comes from the one Infect player in my meta who doesn't show up often.



On the subject of the mirror match, my go-to would be Wishing for Slaughter Games, naming Ad Nauseam. If I'm playing the Esper List, the win will come to whoever can resolve the combo via Phyrexian Unlife first. Combo out, play Lab Maniac, end the turn and go to discards keeping all of your Pact of Negations, and all of your Angel's Graces. Pre-board, their ONLY out is to also have Phyrexian Unlife AND Ad Nauseam, AND have more Pacts than us in hand to stop ours. They could theoretically combo out and Lightning Storm us now, since our Angel's Graces won't stop the Infect damage. Post-board, bring in Leyline of Sanctity, and maybe run a 1-of Sudden Death? If we begin with Leyline, they NEED the Lab Man to win. We kill it with Sudden Death, and I think they just lose on the spot.

I'm usually playing the Esper Spoils list, but I'm also working on a Wish List to play for fun (and why not, in competitive environment)

This is what I've brewed so far:




Your approach is interesting, 3 BtL main and 1 in the side. I have tried something like that before, but I believe is better to grab at least 7 cantrips in order to set up the combo or find the mana rock in the very first turns of the game. But that's my personal opinion/impression.

About sideboard choices and silver bullets:
How necessary is Fracturing Gust? (in the current meta)
Is Manamorphose a sideboard option?
I have thought about Sigarda as well, or any 5CMC that could be BtL'd.
Anguished Unmaking is just a test card, it can deal with anything (with a life cost), but seems pretty flexible.
Now I think I should include Laboratory Maniac and Slaughter Games in the sideboard, I forgot about that...

What do you think?

@Checkmate1988: isn't better Sudden Shock than Sudden Death?

Fracturing Gust might not be absolutely relevant in the pro meta, but there's a dude who's been threatening to bring Lantern Control to FnM, and there's one or two Robots players at my shop. It's something I've been meaning to take out for Boseiju, Who Shelters All but keep forgetting to. In defense of the 3 BtL main, I got to thinking what I dig for with Sleight of Hand. I almost always dig for Ad Nauseam, and figured it would just be more efficient to run 3 more copies of Ad Nauseam instead of things that dig for Ad Nauseam. It may not be correct, but I've gotten pretty lucky with it so far. As well, I once died to my own Spoils of the Vault when I 20'd myself digging for a combo piece. Never again. I think Anguished Unmaking is fine, though depending on the matchup, the life loss may be relevant. I would run Detention Sphere over it personally.

While those I can see I may be wrong in my decision, one thing I have to 100% recommend is running Laboratory Maniac in the main deck. They may be fringe cases now, but at one point my meta was flooded with Melira Pod (Now Melira Co-Co), and my opponent gaining infinite life was not uncommon. Realistically, we can never do more than 39ish damage with Lightning Storm. Even fringe players who have a Soul Sisters, Martyr Life, or the Thing Ascension deck with Rest for the Weary, have the potential to just get out of burn range and Lab Man gives us an out vs them. The weakness to life gain, Deflecting Palm, Burrenton Forge-Tender, or even Pithing Needle and Spellskite demands a secondary win-con that does not involve damage.

...and you're absolutely right; Sudden Shock would probably be better. I was just thinking Sudden Death may be easier for the Esper list to cast, as it has more ready access to black mana than red.

interested to know which land you replace in your main deck when you put boseiju? i usually cut a basic plains for it. anyone had a match with UR kiln fiend they'd like to share? how was the match up? any other new decks you guys are having difficulties dealing with - aside from the usual infect, BGx and affinity matchups?

I had one vs a Grixis Kiln Fiend deck a few months back. It was unbelievably fun, as my opponent was easily the saltiest loser I'd ever faced. Game 1 was a loss straight out. Temur Battle Rage got me hard on turn 3. Games 2 and 3 were pretty easy, bringing in 3 Holy Day. I kept a hand full of Angel's Grace and Holy Day and a Prism. The guy killed me so quick in game 1, he didn't know I was on Ad Nauseam, so he went for the same trick and blew all his pump spells straight into Holy Day. His clock wasn't fast enough after that. By the time he drew more damage, I was able to fog multiple turns in a row, play Unlife, and combo out. Game 3 was pretty much the same. The dude got visibly angry that his super-tier deck was thwarted by a 25 cent common. He got on tilt, played bad, and lost. It was so satisfying.

As for BGx, I dunno. Stick a Leyline to deal with Thoughtseize, and try to get there before they resolve Liliana? I've found it pretty hard to deal with them after they establish their board, so my usual strat is "try to be faster than them"?

I know it's strange but I have 8-0 record against Jund on mtgo. Playing Ad Nauseam for value was extremely good play, especially pre sideboard. After side with Leyline in opening it becomes easy to play. Only Liliana + Fulminator without any Lotus Blooms can be hard to overcome. But overall I think match up is closer to 50-50 than everybody think.

Quote from Checkmate1988 »

I had one vs a Grixis Kiln Fiend deck a few months back. It was unbelievably fun, as my opponent was easily the saltiest loser I'd ever faced. Game 1 was a loss straight out. Temur Battle Rage got me hard on turn 3. Games 2 and 3 were pretty easy, bringing in 3 Holy Day. I kept a hand full of Angel's Grace and Holy Day and a Prism. The guy killed me so quick in game 1, he didn't know I was on Ad Nauseam, so he went for the same trick and blew all his pump spells straight into Holy Day. His clock wasn't fast enough after that. By the time he drew more damage, I was able to fog multiple turns in a row, play Unlife, and combo out. Game 3 was pretty much the same. The dude got visibly angry that his super-tier deck was thwarted by a 25 cent common. He got on tilt, played bad, and lost. It was so satisfying.

As for BGx, I dunno. Stick a Leyline to deal with Thoughtseize, and try to get there before they resolve Liliana? I've found it pretty hard to deal with them after they establish their board, so my usual strat is "try to be faster than them"?

Why not play Ethereal Haze over Holy Day?

Gotta play around all the Hisoka's Defiance in the meta.

Hey fellow Ad Nauseam players, I have been playing Ad Nauseam for just over a year now using a fairly stock build with a slightly edited main and side for personal preferences but not much which hasn't been done before. I have recently started foiling it out as well as in modern Ad Nauseam is my favorite deck to play.

I've been watching this thread for several months now and have grown very interested in EPDT'S Glittering Wish variant of Ad Nauseam and have recently got hold of most of the cards I needed to adjust to this build but would like to know what it hits which stock Ad Nauseam does not hit and how much more or less consistent it is.

I plan to take Ad Nauseam to GP Birmingham (UK) next August and am just trying to get prepared as early as possible as it will be the first GP I'll be at where I won't need to drop to play modern (I get bored of standard and sealed after a few hours even if I'm doing good, not enough combo's at the moment)

Harry

Went 1-2-1 at FNM this week.

Round 1: Draw vs Lantern Control:
G1:He won a long game one after exiling my Mystical Teachings with a Pyxis.
G2:I won Game 2 after he kept a Leyline hand without a lot of hand disruption. I eventually cast a value Ad Nauseam with a second copy in hand and won shortly after hardcasting a Leyline of my own.
G3:Clock ran out on his turn 1 of game 3.

Round 2: 2-0 W vs Jund:
G1:Won an easy game 1 comboing on Turn 4. He only had a single Inquisition to disrupt me.
G2:Game 2 I kept a 7 with Dreadship Reef, 2 Scrylands, and a bunch of cantrips. I build enough mana into the Reef kill on Turn 5.

Round 3: 0-2 L vs BG Rock:
G1 He had a Inquisition, Lily and a clutch Collective Brutality to strip my Ad Nauseam the turn before I could go off.
G2: I kept a 7 with 1 land, leyline,cantrip,cantrip and combo. I find a second land, but stumble to find lands for the following turns. He then started to chain Fulminator Mages on my lands and resolved a Lily. Got crushed.

Round 4: 1-2 L vs Knight Company:
G1:I win an incredibly easy Game 1. He has never played against Ad Nauseam before and had to read all my cards.
G2: He resolves a Stony Silence to shut off my Lotus Bloom and has a Qausali Pridemage to destroy my Unlife with me at negative life. I stumble on lands in this game and couldn't find the necessary second black source to cast Ad Naseaum
G3: I have an Echoing Truth in hand to bounce his Stony Silence that is shutting off my 1 in play Bloom. I have a second Bloom coming into play on my turn. I have Ad Nauseam in hand and all I need is to find Angel's Grace to win. I cast my 1 of Spoils of the Vault at 12 facing down a lethal attack the following turn to search for the Angel's Grace. I don't find a single copy until card 26 and lose. Felt bad.


Pretty poor performance against some bad matchups. Manabase is definitely wrong. I 100% need the 4th Temple of Deceit over the 3rd Temple of Enlightenment. That was a stupid change by me. I'm also on the fence about having 2 basic lands in the deck. I like having 1 just to have some Ghost Quarter protection, but don't think 2 is necessary. The Plains lets me have access to Wear/Tear against Blood Moon, but Island gives me access to Echoing Truth and lets me cast cantrips if I draw it. Leaning towards just playing the Island.

Quote from Tanukimo »

Why not play Ethereal Haze over Holy Day?

Because I don't own any.

I finished 9th at the Open in Montreal, having a 6-2 records and not making it to top 8 because of tie-breakers. Lost to Infect and Merfolk... Won against Affinity, Jund, Zoo, Burn, UW Control and RG Tron. Here's the classic list I ran :



Nothing to change, all good things and hoping to do best at the next big tournament in January (3K or 5k I think)!

Cheers!

How are you liking the one Oboro? I feel like I'd probably want the security of another fetchable blue source rather than the utility that Oboro brings to the table. Has that ever come up?

Do you guys think this deck would be viable without the simian spirit guides? I'm considering picking up the stuff I'm missing to build the deck but I'm worried that, should ssg get banned come AER update, it would all go to waste. :/

Quote from moxruby »

How are you liking the one Oboro? I feel like I'd probably want the security of another fetchable blue source rather than the utility that Oboro brings to the table. Has that ever come up?

Oboro is one of my favorite tech land. It's great providing blue mana untapped, can be used against BG/x for discard and can fix mana also. You always fetch for the shock lands or basics when facing Blood Moon, so no need for that.

Cheers!

The deck is totally dead if Simian Spirit Guide is banned.