If treasure keeper didn't die for its ability to trigger and instead just triggered off of leaving the battlefield, then there might be a case for using it against leyline of the void and rest in peace.
I'm new to modern and ive been tolling around with this deck ive noticed its very suicidal, what with all the dual lands and fetches, im usually at 10 life when i go off, how do i get around this
Won't cast anything but living end though since it's 2 cmc or less
The ability is not the worst thing in the world even if you do not have a LE in hand, since it is real possible they have some high value target like an eldrazi or something you can yoink for benefit. I think this card COULD be a 1 of in a list as a way to purge a LE out of your hand, perhaps as a sideboard option for control matches. It being mono red is nice too as it allows you to cast from under a blood moon.
It's almost like they knew we were desperate for a good card out of this cycle, and decided to make it "cmc 2 or less" just to piss us off. lol
I was wondering that myself, they just want to taunt the cascade decks with cards like expertise and treasure keeper.....
If only there were something like jace, vryn's prodigy ability for getting double use out of a living end, that would be an improvement.
So Gravetroll just got banned... I can only assume this is great for us in that less dredge means less dredge hate means less cards that hurt us.
That being said I cant help but feel like the dredge deck will still be ok with dredge 5 cards still in supply and the key win-cons (narco and Prized) still being available. But crossing my fingers.
That's a red herring because most GY hate in the GGT meta was graf cage.
The banning of git probe is far better for us because it nerfs storm, infect, death shadow zoo, and delver variants which are all decks that either don't care about our decks or go hyper aggro (usually with probe as their safety net)
Yes I am so excited that Probe got banned. I am playing 2 Shriekmaw Main and 2 SB at the moment because my Meta is full of Hyperaggro decks. I can finally go back to a more standard list again.
I think Dredge got a little bit slower which gives us a bit of breathing room.
Dredge is nerfed that decks done its great news for us as the grave hate will decrease. Graf cage is the worst grave hate vs dredge so I am not sure I agree with that statement Raver. GGT vs graf cage means they can still cast a huge GGT on t5 to put huge pressure out and have a regeneration creature. GGT being banned ruins a bunch of match ups for dredge just in the fact that GGT isn't castable as a creature now. Dredge will fall off the radar without GGT.
I'm testing out 3 kitchen finks main right now anyone done any testing recently with them and have any insights to share?
Dredge I think is far from dead, if anything I think it will become more all-in after this shift. It loses Grave troll but it still has other combos that have not seen much play as a result such as Golgari brownscale + street wraith (which I'm shocked is not staple in many lists.)
Graf cage is the worst grave hate vs dredge so I am not sure I agree with that statement Raver.
Wut.
Just because they cast a GGT on T5 doesn't mean cage failed. Dredge was nuts because it could go off as soon as T2 and cage stops that. A T5 GGT in modern is laughable.
Ever since dredge became a known quantity, cage's usage and price spiked like crazy.. The ability to just slam it turn 1 and not need another mana gave it an edge over relic and the fact that it could be used in any deck due to it being colorless meant it was a universal answer to dredge over the likes of RiP or Leyline. And not just stopping dredge, it also hits a slew of other strategies like flashback, combo company/chord, storm, and Nahiri.
The point still remains, Dredge got nerf out quite a bit and as such it will decrease it's relevancy in the overall meta, which will as a reaction decrease the amount of graveyeard hate we get. But we shouldn't care because a good Living End player isn't stopped by a measly relic of progenitus. You should also count out at YOUR meta, because Dredge is a really fun deck to play and i don't think this ban is going to stop greatly it's powerlevel.
Like someone said in the other page, we should get exited about the banning of Gitaxian Probe because it's slows Infect, Storm, Death's Shadow, Kiln fiend decks and other Prowess/Jeskai decks that are arguably fast and get a lot of damage. Although Death's Shadow personally, the few games i've played with them never gave me much trouble. Much more troublesome were the prowess decks altough were fringe.
Infect being a big weight off our backs because we can now use up some slots in our SB. Having two/one Dismembers just for the Infect matchup is ridiculous in my opinion when you are mainboarding two shriekmaws already. Overall I think that those two bannings will probably be helpful for our overall success in the Meta, probably this Primer will get moved into the Tier 2 Sub.
The modern bans affect these two Tier 1 decks, Dredge and Infect in the way that they now won't get an upperhand at turn 2. Golgari Grave Troll won't give Dredge in turn 2 the amazing graveyeard it normally boasts and Infect won't have a T2 killshot. It'ts funny because these are the only two "new top decks" that have been dominating the format, so they now get to be nerfed. I think they want to always have the two reining champions decks: Burn and Affinity, at the top of the food chain and the rest just have to adjust to that.
Go read the dredge thread to see where dredge stands. Grafdiggers is the worst hate against dredge by far and always has been I mained dredge for about 6months I think I lost once due to a grafdiggers it doesn't do enough to stop the deck. Trust me casting a GGT is a big part of dredges plan for its resilience. Either way the bans are great for LE as Tron will come back into T1 and hey who doesn't like their tron match up?
Infect loses very little and is still getting T2 and T3 kills. You won't be dropping Infect hate from your sideboard. Leyline of the Void is already $3 cheaper for the M11 printing than it was before the B&R. Golgari Thug is far worse than Troll, both as a dredger and as a viable threat when cast. If Dredge drops off tho, I've been predicting LE will see a return in popularity. Anger also becomes a bit less great in the meta with less dredge since everything except Troll died to it and if decks like Tron gain more in the meta, that card won't help much.
One of the best parts of B&R announcements is the speculation and deep diving into how decks work to determine which strategies become better and worse
what abou distended mindbender? maindeck or side? Don´t worth? would be pretty nice to resolve a living end, them attack with everything sacrifice a carabid or wraith (by emerge cost) very soon... can help against counterspells matchups? bad as scapeshift or ad nauseam..
The point still remains, Dredge got nerf out quite a bit and as such it will decrease it's relevancy in the overall meta, which will as a reaction decrease the amount of graveyeard hate we get. But we shouldn't care because a good Living End player isn't stopped by a measly relic of progenitus. You should also count out at YOUR meta, because Dredge is a really fun deck to play and i don't think this ban is going to stop greatly it's powerlevel.
Like someone said in the other page, we should get exited about the banning of Gitaxian Probe because it's slows Infect, Storm, Death's Shadow, Kiln fiend decks and other Prowess/Jeskai decks that are arguably fast and get a lot of damage. Although Death's Shadow personally, the few games i've played with them never gave me much trouble. Much more troublesome were the prowess decks altough were fringe.
Infect being a big weight off our backs because we can now use up some slots in our SB. Having two/one Dismembers just for the Infect matchup is ridiculous in my opinion when you are mainboarding two shriekmaws already. Overall I think that those two bannings will probably be helpful for our overall success in the Meta, probably this Primer will get moved into the Tier 2 Sub.
The modern bans affect these two Tier 1 decks, Dredge and Infect in the way that they now won't get an upperhand at turn 2. Golgari Grave Troll won't give Dredge in turn 2 the amazing graveyeard it normally boasts and Infect won't have a T2 killshot. It'ts funny because these are the only two "new top decks" that have been dominating the format, so they now get to be nerfed. I think they want to always have the two reining champions decks: Burn and Affinity, at the top of the food chain and the rest just have to adjust to that.
infect is hardly slowed by it. where they ran gitaxian probe they will switch out for street wraith (if they are smart)!
suicide zoo death's shadow didn't loose much in the way of gitaxian probe either.
all of those sorts of decks still trip hard if we pull well timed shriekmaw and living end.
Dredge is still going to be a deck in the meta in some form. we will retain a hard match up with them regardless, just because of the combo design. keep your faerie macabre in the mainboard.
You're not accounting for the information that git probe provides.
With the very much all-in style that DSZ and infect rely on, git probe is the insurance and a great opener for the chain to check for potential removal and tricks. If we leave up 2-3 mana open (like most LE players do), git probe allows the opponent to check for cascade, cascade + SSG, or beast within. If we don't have those, they do not get punished for the all-in, if they see one of the above, they don't commit.
There simply isn't a replacement on the level of git probe that provides perfect information and cantrip at 2 life, at best the decks either bring in more hexproof tricks (which we don't care about for the most part) or they bring in more card selection like serum visions which doesn't provide info on the cards we're holding.
You're not accounting for the information that git probe provides.
With the very much all-in style that DSZ and infect rely on, git probe is the insurance and a great opener for the chain to check for potential removal and tricks. If we leave up 2-3 mana open (like most LE players do), git probe allows the opponent to check for cascade, cascade + SSG, or beast within. If we don't have those, they do not get punished for the all-in, if they see one of the above, they don't commit.
There simply isn't a replacement on the level of git probe that provides perfect information and cantrip at 2 life, at best the decks either bring in more hexproof tricks (which we don't care about for the most part) or they bring in more card selection like serum visions which doesn't provide info on the cards we're holding.
some people are trying surgical extraction maindeck...
So im pretty new to Living End and have a question about the fetchlands (I usually play UW so im a bit of a noob with a 3 color manabase)
why do some lists run 4 bloodstained mire and some 4 verdant catacombs?
I really want to build this deck in paper, but the catacombs are crazy expensive so, can a manabase with 4 mires also work?
and if so, how would you put in together?
thanks
Look up for previous posts in this thread for a detailed response, but basically Verdants are better because they get you basics against Blood Moon, and Dryad Arbor if you are running it. You can still play it with Bloodstained Mires, 3 Shocklands, 2-3 basics, 7-8 Fastlands and a few more lands (depending of your SSG count). Also, this article can help you build manabases, just define clearly your mana requirements for each turn.
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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No infect list will run street wraith it isn't good for what infect wants to do. Nothing compares to Git Probe which is why its banned I think a lot us were just so used to git probe that we didn't actually realise how awesome this card was. Its much more obvious now when trying to replace it just how good it was lol.
Here is an idea for the deck:
Obviously, due to the cascade shell, the deck is pretty similar to restore balance.
The cascade spells, SSG, and similar early interaction restricted by cost.
Fulminator mage, blood moon, and faerie macabre can all be pretty good in restore balance too.
After a bit of testing, it turns out that monstrous carabid and deadshot minotaur work within restore balance.
They are not amazing, but they work, they can either cycle early to find your pieces, or act as win conditions once you wiped everything.
In a similar way, adding a couple of PW to a living end list makes the plan a little less streamlined, but its not going against it.
So the 2 decks can have a super similar shell, but are hated on differently.
That sounds like the perfect place for a transformational SB?
~A deck or two~
Restore balance deck for game 2, once they bring in all their graveyard hate
Or the other way around maybe, balance for g1, living end for g2.
Even without the advantage of surprise, it would still make SBing awkward for a lot of opponents. Are you bringing in stony silence, or rest in peace? Both? Can you still survive people casting 5 mana 4/4s? Gargadons, blood moons and PW?
Obviously, the 2 decks I posted here are pretty rough drafts, just to help visualise what it could look like.
What do you think?
I think you'll fool your local meta exactly once. Kind of a funny idea, but not one I would investigate as a solution. The biggest question to answer is: does Balance do well against strategies that Living End struggles against?
Obviously, the 2 decks I posted here are pretty rough drafts, just to help visualise what it could look like.
What do you think?
I think you'll fool your local meta exactly once. Kind of a funny idea, but not one I would investigate as a solution. The biggest question to answer is: does Balance do well against strategies that Living End struggles against?
Dredge is one.
I actually put restore balance together on the 8th just for dredge and monday the 9th they nerf dredge.
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ya that works, I forgot about them. better to use them than any of the expertise spells. sucks that they are 5cc.
That being said I cant help but feel like the dredge deck will still be ok with dredge 5 cards still in supply and the key win-cons (narco and Prized) still being available. But crossing my fingers.
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The banning of git probe is far better for us because it nerfs storm, infect, death shadow zoo, and delver variants which are all decks that either don't care about our decks or go hyper aggro (usually with probe as their safety net)
I think Dredge got a little bit slower which gives us a bit of breathing room.
I'm testing out 3 kitchen finks main right now anyone done any testing recently with them and have any insights to share?
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
Wut.
Just because they cast a GGT on T5 doesn't mean cage failed. Dredge was nuts because it could go off as soon as T2 and cage stops that. A T5 GGT in modern is laughable.
Ever since dredge became a known quantity, cage's usage and price spiked like crazy.. The ability to just slam it turn 1 and not need another mana gave it an edge over relic and the fact that it could be used in any deck due to it being colorless meant it was a universal answer to dredge over the likes of RiP or Leyline. And not just stopping dredge, it also hits a slew of other strategies like flashback, combo company/chord, storm, and Nahiri.
Draft My Cube!
Like someone said in the other page, we should get exited about the banning of Gitaxian Probe because it's slows Infect, Storm, Death's Shadow, Kiln fiend decks and other Prowess/Jeskai decks that are arguably fast and get a lot of damage. Although Death's Shadow personally, the few games i've played with them never gave me much trouble. Much more troublesome were the prowess decks altough were fringe.
Infect being a big weight off our backs because we can now use up some slots in our SB. Having two/one Dismembers just for the Infect matchup is ridiculous in my opinion when you are mainboarding two shriekmaws already. Overall I think that those two bannings will probably be helpful for our overall success in the Meta, probably this Primer will get moved into the Tier 2 Sub.
The modern bans affect these two Tier 1 decks, Dredge and Infect in the way that they now won't get an upperhand at turn 2. Golgari Grave Troll won't give Dredge in turn 2 the amazing graveyeard it normally boasts and Infect won't have a T2 killshot. It'ts funny because these are the only two "new top decks" that have been dominating the format, so they now get to be nerfed. I think they want to always have the two reining champions decks: Burn and Affinity, at the top of the food chain and the rest just have to adjust to that.
One of the best parts of B&R announcements is the speculation and deep diving into how decks work to determine which strategies become better and worse
infect is hardly slowed by it. where they ran gitaxian probe they will switch out for street wraith (if they are smart)!
suicide zoo death's shadow didn't loose much in the way of gitaxian probe either.
all of those sorts of decks still trip hard if we pull well timed shriekmaw and living end.
Dredge is still going to be a deck in the meta in some form. we will retain a hard match up with them regardless, just because of the combo design. keep your faerie macabre in the mainboard.
With the very much all-in style that DSZ and infect rely on, git probe is the insurance and a great opener for the chain to check for potential removal and tricks. If we leave up 2-3 mana open (like most LE players do), git probe allows the opponent to check for cascade, cascade + SSG, or beast within. If we don't have those, they do not get punished for the all-in, if they see one of the above, they don't commit.
There simply isn't a replacement on the level of git probe that provides perfect information and cantrip at 2 life, at best the decks either bring in more hexproof tricks (which we don't care about for the most part) or they bring in more card selection like serum visions which doesn't provide info on the cards we're holding.
some people are trying surgical extraction maindeck...
Look up for previous posts in this thread for a detailed response, but basically Verdants are better because they get you basics against Blood Moon, and Dryad Arbor if you are running it. You can still play it with Bloodstained Mires, 3 Shocklands, 2-3 basics, 7-8 Fastlands and a few more lands (depending of your SSG count). Also, this article can help you build manabases, just define clearly your mana requirements for each turn.
I think you'll fool your local meta exactly once. Kind of a funny idea, but not one I would investigate as a solution. The biggest question to answer is: does Balance do well against strategies that Living End struggles against?
Dredge is one.
I actually put restore balance together on the 8th just for dredge and monday the 9th they nerf dredge.