MTG Salvation

After SB, they make it awkward for people, because they can be punishing if people dont keep in some paths or terminates or whatever, but those cards are not very good against us in the first place.

Well Path will stay post-SB in any deck that plays them. PtE is the best spot removal spell VS LE by definition. We agree that H-1 is better post-SB as an early play though.

Gemstone caverns I thought about, and it seems nice for the deck, but the problem is colorless mana is not very useful for this deck. So drawing it or having it on the play would be bad. Not sure what the odds are on building a deck with 4 caverns, and always choosing to draw, and maybe sometimes exile one cavern to the other. But it seems like you would just end up drawing a lot of useless caverns though.

Well your UW variant is the best one at tolerating this land, since you run only 2 colors. It's not a strong argument to say it's not "useful" to generate colorless, in comparison to the tempo boost it can provide.
Also, FYI, decks that run G Cavern usually run 1-2 copies only.

Like I said before, I'm going to need to see Hollow One do something before I'm ready to try him. All the anecdotal stuff like getting a 4/4 on turn 2 to get a blocker out or provide some early pressure is honestly not compelling to me at all.

Against creature decks, I'd much rather have my cyclers draw me into a Cascade spell than churn out a Hollow One, because writhing the board and returning 3 creatures is just better. Against disruptive decks, he is a magnet for Path/Terminate and can be an easy Thoughtseize target if you do have a broken draw. He is even a nombo with Ingot Chewer, which was enough reason for me to never plays Architects of Will.

Finally, one of the best things about our deck is that we are very, very consistent. Hollow One throws a wrench into that plan, not in a strictly bad way, but in a way that could alter play away from ideal (i.e. discussion on using a SSG to play a Hollow One).

Removing hose definitely changesy deck, but I think it really hurts it rather than helps.

I can have a pair of land cyclers (which matchup with my sideboard Blood Moon) or a couple 4/4s.

I can have a flexible answer to Scavenging Ooze, Jace, Tarmogoyf, Noble Hierarch, or Birds of Paradise or a 4/4.

I can have a way to kill main deck Chalice, Relic, Steel Overseer or X/2s as well as recur Fulminator Mages/cyclers or a 4/4.

I basically every instance, I would much rather have my flexible answers rather than a vanilla 4/4. Maybe someone will write u a tournament report that helps me see the light, because all the cards you mentioned me removing have been very good for me to the point where I consider them necessary bullets.

Quote from Morimacil »

If you like your deck as-is, and dont want to change any cards, dont.
Nobody is going to force you to test new cards.

But saying he makes the deck less consistent is not true (if anything, it is just another cycler)
Saying he makes the deck vulnerable to thoughtseize is again not really true, since every other card we are considering for the spot is just as vulnerable to thoughtseize if not more.

If you want the analysis to be helpful, you have to show the other side too.

If you prefer to run shriekmaw, thats fine.
But it is a flexible answer to Scavenging Ooze, Jace, Tarmogoyf, Noble Hierarch, or Birds of Paradise, that is kind of dead vs affinity, classic tron, uw control, scapeshift, RG titan, deaths shadow, and dredge for example. Vs a 4/4 that goes from amazing to meh, but never useless.

If you want to compare the 2 cards, you have to compare them across the board, not just in scenarios where shriekmaw is good.

Same with with the rest. If you prefer to run 2 landcyclers, you have to not only compare how good a landcycler to get your correct mana is vs how good a 4/4 beatstick is when you have someone locked under blood moon, but also compare think about all the times you dont have a blood moon out, and then also try to compare whether being able to get a land for sure out of your 2 mana cycler is worth more than it cycling for random cards, but sometimes being able to cast it for free.

Quote from Morimacil »

If you like your deck as-is, and dont want to change any cards, dont.
Nobody is going to force you to test new cards.

But saying he makes the deck less consistent is not true (if anything, it is just another cycler)
Saying he makes the deck vulnerable to thoughtseize is again not really true, since every other card we are considering for the spot is just as vulnerable to thoughtseize if not more.

If you want the analysis to be helpful, you have to show the other side too.

If you prefer to run shriekmaw, thats fine.
But it is a flexible answer to Scavenging Ooze, Jace, Tarmogoyf, Noble Hierarch, or Birds of Paradise, that is kind of dead vs affinity, classic tron, uw control, scapeshift, RG titan, deaths shadow, and dredge for example. Vs a 4/4 that goes from amazing to meh, but never useless.

If you want to compare the 2 cards, you have to compare them across the board, not just in scenarios where shriekmaw is good.

Same with with the rest. If you prefer to run 2 landcyclers, you have to not only compare how good a landcycler to get your correct mana is vs how good a 4/4 beatstick is when you have someone locked under blood moon, but also compare think about all the times you dont have a blood moon out, and then also try to compare whether being able to get a land for sure out of your 2 mana cycler is worth more than it cycling for random cards, but sometimes being able to cast it for free.

I brought up those Shriekmaw targets because you labeled it as 'good against small creatures' like a 4/4 is. Skriekmaw is a situational card but that is also why he is a 1-of.

And I don't mean to derail, so like I said, I will wait to see the list that goes deep in a tournament with him and re-evaluate. I'm just not buying that a 4/4 on turn 2 or 3 is what we want to be doing in place of cycling or blowing up lands.

I went 3-2 in my first league, and despite facing a lot of hate and drawing a large number of Living Ends, I was quite pleased with its performance. During the 3 matches I won, I didn't have to do a whole lot of thinking, and I lost the two where I did.

My matches were
Grixis DS 2-0
Eldrazi Tron 2-1
Superfriends Tron (CRAZY Deck) 2-1
UW Control 0-2
Merfolk 1-2

I am mainly here to talk about the role that I take on, particularly games 2 and 3, and cards that are most likely to be sided out.

So against Merfolk, I think I way overboarded. I thought Shriekmaw, Dead/Gone, the Chewers were all relevant, and my opponent had a lot of Negates too, targets for Ricochet Trap.
He played 3 Negates and 4 Cursecatchers in games 2 and 3, but I also just got outplayed. He correctly played minimal pressure, and I wasn't hitting lands. At what point should I have decided that he is sandbagging creatures and holding a counter and stopped cycling creatures to play fatties on my fifth land drop?


Also, I really wanted Deadshot Minotaur instead of Architects most of my games. Am I off-base in making this swap? Post-sideboard games, I was hurting for castable threats.

No Fulminator and Win Eldrazi TroN! Good joB!

Quote from drinkard »

I went 3-2 in my first league, and despite facing a lot of hate and drawing a large number of Living Ends, I was quite pleased with its performance. During the 3 matches I won, I didn't have to do a whole lot of thinking, and I lost the two where I did.

My matches were
Grixis DS 2-0
Eldrazi Tron 2-1
Superfriends Tron (CRAZY Deck) 2-1
UW Control 0-2
Merfolk 1-2

I am mainly here to talk about the role that I take on, particularly games 2 and 3, and cards that are most likely to be sided out.

GlauberT's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
18 lands (Catacombs, fastlands base) 4 Ceradon 2 Archfiend 4 Horror 4 Carabid 4 Street Wraith 4 Architects 2 Faerie 4 SSG	3 LE 3 Beast Within 8 Cascade Side 1 Faerie 1 LotV 3 Ingot Chewer 2 Shriekmaw 3 Ricochet Trap 3 Boar 2 Dead/Gone

So against Merfolk, I think I way overboarded. I thought Shriekmaw, Dead/Gone, the Chewers were all relevant, and my opponent had a lot of Negates too, targets for Ricochet Trap.
He played 3 Negates and 4 Cursecatchers in games 2 and 3, but I also just got outplayed. He correctly played minimal pressure, and I wasn't hitting lands. At what point should I have decided that he is sandbagging creatures and holding a counter and stopped cycling creatures to play fatties on my fifth land drop?


Also, I really wanted Deadshot Minotaur instead of Architects most of my games. Am I off-base in making this swap? Post-sideboard games, I was hurting for castable threats.

Decisions made while siding against Merfolk are often far from cut and dry (I find this to be true with most decks, not just LE).

I agree with the above poster: be leery of overboarding in game 2. Some Merfolk players will be packing multiple Relics and perhaps even a Chalice to go with their Vials; others won't bring in many artifacts at all, instead accessing counterspells and creatures like Tidebinder Mage.

Shriekmaw is the only nailed-on choice for game 2, IMO. He's great if they try to race you, and he's great if they try to slow-roll it with counter magic, Cursecatchers, and Mutavault beats.

Beast Within has massive utility in this matchup, so leave those in until (and perhaps even after) you know exactly what they're up to. Beast can pop Relics and Chalices (or Vials if they're stuck on 1-2 land). It can destroy your own land that's been enchanted with Spreading Seas. This is especially nice post-LE, when they think they're about to casually Islandwalk past your massive board for lethal. After attackers are declared, blow up the offending Island, and suddenly the fishmen are all blockable, and you have a 3/3 token to join the fun.

Merfolk and Faeries are two of my least favorite matchups.

With all these notes on what to bring in, what are the least needed cards in the main?

I'm pretty sure Monoblue Merfolk runs 2-4 Relics more than 90% of the time. The white-blue Merfolk land doesn't mean they're playing white, though, some Merfolk player just run it as a Choke insurance. If you see something like Seachrome Coast or Hallowed Fountain though, their hate is probably going to include RiPs. So Against Monoblue, I'd always bring at least 3 Chewers. Ricochet Trap is more questionable though here, and I wouldn't bring more than 1 in for G2. but G3 if you saw a lot of Negates/Unified Wills, I might bring 2-3. Shriekmaw is always great.
Against Monoblue, Fulminator is really poor (around 10 targets, but you won't ever color screw them and they play vial). It's slightly better against UW, but still not great at all. Faerie Macabre isn't great either, even though not fully useless. Beast Within is somewhat slow, but it's decent. I'd probably side it out against UW. As always, if you side Ingot Chewer, you might want to cut Architects of Will, even though blue cycling cost can be useful.

Don't forget you can Fulminator your Spreading Sea'ed land to turn off Island Walk, and that Phantasmal Image comes back as a 0/0.

Fulminator hitting Mutavault is a real thing. He is still worth it.

rptq qualifier report: 18 people, 5 round
i am putting up a good result, at least i got to top 8

round 1: dredge 2-1 win
game 1 is lopsided, i don't draw faerie macabre and it goes downhill when he dredge multiple stinkweed imp and golgari thug
game 2 i exiled his first 2 dredgers and resolve an early living end with 4 creature (2 street wraith), he scooped
game 3 i have leyline of the void in opening hand, he sighed and conceded after i cast a living end

round 2 : elves 0-2 loss
game 1 i didn't manage to draw any cascader, he resolved a collected company hitting 2 Dwynen's Elite and cast an Elvish Archdruid the next turn, i scooped
game 2 i punted so hard, he resolve devoted druid + vizier of remedies combo, create bazilion mana and cast chord of calling searching for walking ballista, he showed it to me and i snap scoop. after i scoop i realized that the ballista should be olny a 0/0 creature. well i need to brush up my game

round 3 : UW control 1-1 draw
the dreaded control matchup
game 1 he slipped up, he tapped out for gideon jura, use + 2 ability and i responded with casting violent outburst. then in my turn i cast beast within killing gideon and he got trampled by a horde of angry beast
game 2 the game dragged on, i missed a moment when i can successfully cast living end and got beaten with elspeth, sun's champion and celestial colonnade
game 3 drag on until times up

round 4 : UBR control 2-0 win
another control mathcup
game 1 i got screwed on mana but opponent punted by tapping out for torrential gearhulk which i promptly responded with a violent outburst. he scooped.
game 2 a ricochet trap killed him

round 5 : abzan
game 1 i managed to cast instant speed living end with several angry beast in my graveyard.
game 2 leyline of the void destroyed his entire gameplan.

i got to top 8 and paired with the same UW player that got me a draw.
the game is not interesting since control decks are living end's bad matchup

list i'm using is almost the same with the latest mtgo daily 5-0 winner with some minor changes.
moving forward i will try to make room for more ricochet trap in the sideboard (i only carry 2 this time around)
also i will try to use blood moon in the mainboard (i have ordered the card but it hasn't arrived)

Sounds like some hard games, but you rocked it.

I've brought the trap back into my board with a large sigh, it's shifting towards that meta again. Fortunately almost no one ever knows to play around it.

Grixis Control is a very easy matchup, and Jeskai is favorable for us. I never played UW, but it's not playing that many counterspells right now (around 6, including potential Mana leaks and Cryptic Command, which are fairly easy to play around). So G1 looks fairly easy on paper. Post side, they often have more counters, and some amount of RiP and Rule of Law. It's harder, but given they can rarely tap out, I'd say overall the matchup should be fairly even. Obviously Fulminator Mage is key here.

Took the deck to a 70ish person PPTQ and made top 4, only to lose to a pretty favorable matchup. I'll probably tune the board up a little more, as I was pretty happy with the pseudo stock 60. I plan on taking the deck for the next couple of weekends to more PPTQs and seeing if I can spike one. Also, I feel that Blood Moon is where I want to be right now given the meta.

What's your list and SB??

I'm torn between 4 macabre MB or playing deadshot over architects

So I have done some testing with Lurching Rotbeast in the place of Architects of Will (for those of you who are still running AoW) and it preformed as I expected it to.
Pros: Cycles for 1x the same way that AoW does yet when you top deck it post Living End you can still hard cast it if you are not running a Watery Grave in the main.
One more point of power than AoW.
Cons: Dies to bolt (so does AoW) and revolted push (so does AoW).
Doesn't have the useful ETB ability that AoW does.

Overall I will continue to test with it. I just feel in terms of raw power I'd much rather Living End back a Rotbeast than an AoW. I'm sure as time goes on and I find myself in longer grind-ier games I might find AoW's ETB ability more useful and switch back possibly. But for now that extra point of power and ability to actually hard cast it using a Jund mana base I find more appealing.

I'd rather it not get chumped by a Snapcaster or a Goblin Electromancer or a Dark confidant or any other 2 power dude.

Quote from kodieyost »

What's your list and SB??

I'm torn between 4 macabre MB or playing deadshot over architects

4 faerie macabre seems a bit much, 2 or 3 is ideal based on your metagame.
if you decided to run more faerie maybe its better to split between deadshot minotaur and architects of will. i only run 2 deadshot in the mainboard since i have 3 faerie mainboard.
about lurching rotbeast and architect, 1 power difference often didn't matter much. dying to burn spell or chum blocker is a problem.
most people run archfiend of ifnir these days but i never liked 2 cycler. if you want a castable 1 mana cycling creature without risking your BRGmana base just run deadshot minotaur.
another viable choice is hollow one.decent stats, castable, and have potential to be a freebie. has anybody tested it yet?

Hey guys, I'm new to modern and I've been messing with some Living End variants.

Would you critique this list? Or give me your first impression? I've only played a few matches vs Death's Shadow and Eldrazi Tron so far, with decent results.

If this is the wrong place for this kind of brew, I apologize. I figured that experienced Living End players might be able to tell me right away if I'm barking up the wrong tree.