Someone enlighten me but why do I see lists with 1x kari zev's expertise?
I understand we can cast a LE off it if we naturally draw a LE during game. Sure stealing an opponent's dude at any given point of the game isn't a useless ability. But I feel like if people are including it for just the "oh crap I just top decked a LE *sadface*" insurance... I don't see it being that good?
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Standard // nRG Aggro
Modern // Burn (main) and Living End (secondary) now Jund.
For fun check out my janky combo primer: Turn 3 Grixis Combo
"Can't beat em' Jund em'!"
If you want to use As foretold, you likely want to abuse it's ability to play 0 mana stuff so you would want, at the least Ancestral Visions. As soon as you do that you really should cut all the cascade from your list. It fundamentally changes the list.
4 As foretold
3 Kari Zev's Expertise
4 Living End
That will be your core package, and now the deck requires you have those cards together in your hand, and you lose instant speed
Since you are using As fortold, you now want other cards to abuse. Likely it's:
4 Ancestral Visions
You still need ramp to make sure you can start doing this early on:
4 SSG
And then you need cyclers. The deck is now base blue red so you start there:
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Desert Cerodon
4 street wraith
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Architects of Will
And Fulminator is still red, so you really should play it
4 Fulminator mage
And just like that, your deck is basically already built short of land. Now answer me this. With this configuration:
What are the benefits of this list over Living End? Let me list out what you lose:
Instant speed wrath / LE
All purpose removal, land denial, and token generation with beast within
The need to only have 1 card in your hand to combo instead of 2.
Some better cyclers (the Horror) over Architechts
-If you drop the cascades spell you no longer need 3CMC cards.
-Just add some black and you got all the removal you want and play the horror.
-You dont need the token produce by beast within if you dont olay démo ic dread.
Im not sold to as foretold...just somethings I saw from what you write
Exactly! But I dont wanna go this way, I think the cascade is still the best way to do LE, but what I get from this list for me is better set of creatures.
the only time i consider splashing blue is back when splinter twin was legal. other than that you risk running into consitency issues. having to fetch and shock with steam vents or watery grave is scary especially in the death's shadow meta right now.
Emma Handy know nothing about living end. Good living end player know most of the games are won on the back of violent outburst so replacing it with sorcery speed card like ardent plea and as foretold, removing beast within and relying on drake haven as alternative win condition is totally ludicrous
i would say that the build that run 1 kari zev's expertise are the most optimal build in an unknown meta. if you want to play the full blown cascade list run the most recent Twoo list (although he admit it to be somewhat lackluster).
TL,DR: running blue is sub optimal, violent outburst is still the king, full blown cascade doesnt always win the game, just stick to the proven standard stock list until something really good comes around.
You guys are still talking about splashing and consistency but Im trying to say its a new build, new colours, so blue is not really a splash. Heck, that Emma Handy build, I think As Foretold is in the just to show it of. I dont want it in. You can take those 3 copies out and put lands in and I think its still competitive build. Why? Lets talk it through:
1) Dismember instead of Beast Within
You got 2 (or 3, since you can take 4th LE out if we are not playing As Foretold) instead of Beast within. What does it mean? No land destruction and making tokens for demonic dread. You still got your fulminators you got your land denial plan going, if you want more, you can always get in avalanche riders. No token for Dread is also ok, since you got second cascade which doesnt need targets. Also, you can always play one Dryad arbor if you are worried about this. PROs: you got quicker interaction in certain hurtful matchups. Turn 1 on the draw can kill ooze before it eats your graveyard, turn 2 can kill Thalia, so you can LE next turn. etc. which Beast within without SSG cant do.
2)Better creatures IMHO
You lose those clunky minoutaurs that always shoot you faeries and got your new curator, you play 4 architects which most of you do anyway and can hardcast them all the time with no sweat, you lose those slow spiders who would always got chumped anyways and got new brutal archfiends.
Sooo...you now got 8 freaking flyers maindeck!!!! This lets you fly over anything LE might bring back from you opponents graveyard and win.
Also, I would personally swap carabids for the new Horrors. Its always so sad to see carabid running and dieing crashing against super-big goyf. This would certainly be an upgrade. But maybe we want to keep focus on blue/red so one land can cycle all our creatures, so you can still upgrade carabids for Desert cerodons. Still, overall, this makes better army than our current rooster.
3)Drake haven IS good sideboard plan.
If graveyard hate is prominent in your local meta, or globally anyway, drake haven is great card to play around that. you no longer need to sandbag you cyclers hoping to draw beast to kill RiP. Now you can have Havens, 2 other hate removal cards, heck even SB Le out and laugh histerically at their graveyard hate. you just cycle, make drakes, then get curator and archfiend out and kill them. OR just switch haven for Faith of the devoted and just drain them out. This would be really funny if death shadow player gets dangerously low on life and you just kill them with two cyclers :DDDD
4) Im little worried about that White mana. But adding those 3 lands instead of As foretold and little tweaking, it should be ok and reliable.
To end this, this is all just speculations. But when i finally have time this weekend, this list as I talked about it is first I will be heavily testing and expect positive results. Still, that doesnt mean that the old and tested build is suddenly bad or something. its still great, even though I strongly suggest sacking carabids and minotaurs for beasts and horrors. But i think this build provides fresh perspective and experience and maybe is less hateable.
Someone enlighten me but why do I see lists with 1x kari zev's expertise?
I understand we can cast a LE off it if we naturally draw a LE during game. Sure stealing an opponent's dude at any given point of the game isn't a useless ability. But I feel like if people are including it for just the "oh crap I just top decked a LE *sadface*" insurance... I don't see it being that good?
That and Remand matchups. Also, can be sometimes surprise kill against death shadow, tron, or something which finishes with big creatures. But i personally would bother with it unless i was playing Blood moon main package
You got 2 (or 3, since you can take 4th LE out if we are not playing As Foretold) instead of Beast within. What does it mean? No land destruction and making tokens for demonic dread. You still got your fulminators you got your land denial plan going, if you want more, you can always get in avalanche riders. No token for Dread is also ok, since you got second cascade which doesnt need targets. Also, you can always play one Dryad arbor if you are worried about this. PROs: you got quicker interaction in certain hurtful matchups. Turn 1 on the draw can kill ooze before it eats your graveyard, turn 2 can kill Thalia, so you can LE next turn. etc. which Beast within without SSG cant do.
I strongly disagree with Dismember being a fitting replacement for Beast Within. Beast Within is still our only enchantment removal (and it is even MB) and I think you are underestimating the value of land destruction and token production. I have played so many games, which were decided by right amount of land destruction.
It's simply a flexible option to have as both living end enabler and game closer. It's especially relevant in long grindy games where drawing living ends is far more likely but it also affects the few times where we open with a hand that has a living end in it but is more palatable to keep because of kari zev's.
Goldfish testing shows that 6 cascade + 1 Expertise doesn't really mess with the ability to resolve living end when you need it to. I still have yet to do extensive testing in an environment of targeted discard removal so that remains to be seen. I'd imagine bumping it up to 7 cascade + 1 expertise is fine, especially since most lists are already on 7 cascades to begin with.
Kari Zev's is just very situational, it's definitely worse than Demonic Dread if you play against anything without Remand, and even then it's not great. Playing Kari Zev's as a 9th enabler is fine but playing it before the 4th or even the 3rd Demonic Dread seems wrong. Kari Zev needs LE in hand and it even gets fizzled by removals/sac of any kind. It's just not good.
About the Cascadeless list, I'm pretty sure you should run 4 Faithless Looting, 4 Cathartic Reunion and maybe even Goblin Lore or Serum Visions in this kind of deck. And you don't need any cycler, you could play any kind of fun creatures.
The Major problem of this kind of list is the lack of consistency: You need to draw a Living End, an Enabler, and Cyclers/Discard enablers.
You got 2 (or 3, since you can take 4th LE out if we are not playing As Foretold) instead of Beast within. What does it mean? No land destruction and making tokens for demonic dread. You still got your fulminators you got your land denial plan going, if you want more, you can always get in avalanche riders. No token for Dread is also ok, since you got second cascade which doesnt need targets. Also, you can always play one Dryad arbor if you are worried about this. PROs: you got quicker interaction in certain hurtful matchups. Turn 1 on the draw can kill ooze before it eats your graveyard, turn 2 can kill Thalia, so you can LE next turn. etc. which Beast within without SSG cant do.
I strongly disagree with Dismember being a fitting replacement for Beast Within. Beast Within is still our only enchantment removal (and it is even MB) and I think you are underestimating the value of land destruction and token production. I have played so many games, which were decided by right amount of land destruction.
Sure, but I dont think MB enchantment removal is really that necessary. And SBwise, you got better options thanks to white. And as I said, you still got fulminators and you can get Avalanche riders, but in my experience, if your not going down the blood moon path, fulminators as land destruction are more than enough. Also, Im sure we all played games that were decided by that, but also many which werent. Heck, I even remember games where I got killed only by my own beast token.... but that doesnt mean Beast within is bad card, but it also doesnt mean that you cannot play and win without it. Sure, it is certainly most universal card but right now Im curious what spicy white hate cards can be used in its place
EDIT: like this, Wispmare. its probably a ***** card, but it can be used and it goes with LE philosophy.
Went 3-0-1 in a tourney last night with a list that's all-in on land hate (2x Blood Moon, 2x Avalanche Riders, and 4x Fulminators in the main). I've also been running Domri Rade as a fun-of, but I never saw him last night.
2-1 vs. Affinity: the ability to Cascade at instant speed via Outburst really saved my bacon in this matchup (and in others later on). People saying that we can cut green without losing much are dreaming, IMO. Game 3 got really grindy, with his insane start forcing me to SSG into a turn 2 Outburst with only a lone Carabid to bring back. As the game drew on, the utility of the LE archetype really shone. Blood Moon turned off his Nexuses (Nexii?), Ingot Chewer and Beast Withins stripped protection from his Etched Champions and eventually killed a Champ outright, and playing Demonic Dread and Kari Zev's on the same turn for their secondary effects allowed me to finally punch through for lethal. Fun matchup.
1-1-1 against Mono-U Tron. Unlike other Tron decks, they have maindeck options for dealing with a resolved Blood Moon. Between that and Relic of Progenitus, the matchup feels tough, but I could be wrong--first time facing U Tron. The games were so long and grindy that we went to turns and finished with a draw.
2-0 against Jeskai Aggro. My T2 SSG-powered Blood Moon hosed him pretty well in the first game. Outburst's instant speed Cascade was the only reason I survived game 2, with an honorable mention to the Architects, whose EtB effect saved me from a Bolt-related demise.
2-1 against Naya Zoo. I couldn't quite handle the perfect progression he came out with in game two despite Brindle Boar's valiant efforts, but otherwise this matchup suits us just fine. Yet again, Outburst at instant speed was crucial.
I'm having an incredible time piloting this deck. Can't wait for the Amonkhet lads to join the ranks.
Everyone talks about the new cyclers, but now im wondering, Is anyone trying out fuse cards with the new rule change on the CMC of them? We could now run some cmc 1 or 2 cards that arent cascading instead of living end.
I don't play this deck, but I feel like this opens up some great possibilities now. Breaking // Entering now counts as an 8 drop in your library, and could be used to fill the 'yard with creatures the turn before casting a cascade spell. Mouth // Feed has the potential to draw buttloads of cards, and Insult // Injury would make for some crazy fast kills.
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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Sure, but I dont think MB enchantment removal is really that necessary. And SBwise, you got better options thanks to white. And as I said, you still got fulminators and you can get Avalanche riders, but in my experience, if your not going down the blood moon path, fulminators as land destruction are more than enough. Also, Im sure we all played games that were decided by that, but also many which werent. Heck, I even remember games where I got killed only by my own beast token.... but that doesnt mean Beast within is bad card, but it also doesnt mean that you cannot play and win without it. Sure, it is certainly most universal card but right now Im curious what spicy white hate cards can be used in its place
EDIT: like this, Wispmare. its probably a ***** card, but it can be used and it goes with LE philosophy.
Mainboard enchantment removal is really important, especially if this deck becomes more popular. Keep in mind it also kills things that aren't just hate but things that kill you outright, like Pyromancers ascension and Urzatron pieces and Karn and Ugin. Because beast within does so much more though, it also clears up room in your sb for more specific answers. I would far rather be in a match up where I could side out beast for something I specifically needed in the match up, like life gain against burn, than have to start moving cyclers to the board to make room. I have also won with the token quite a few times, it is a 3/3 body when you need one.
Just for context, most of the time this card is a better vindicate for this list, and vindicate is a card that would see play in modern for sure.
"I'm considering Crime // Punishment againt Affinity, but not sure if it's good in this deck"
I like it too but I think it has more uses than just against affinity. I think it might be good against most fast-starting aggro decks (perhaps not Burn) somewhat like an after the fact chalice or a better maelstrom. It's good for destroying ramp creatures and mana rocks and plays into our mana disruption/control game buying us time. It can also off the GY hate. For the record I'm playing the Mooning End version of the deck.
Also strong against tokens including your own beastly ones.
For what it's worth, Emma Handy posted a list that might interest you: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/34914_The-Living-End-As-Foretold.html. It is comparable to your list and provides some rationale for inclusions and exclusions, which should help you as you brew. It does look like you want to run all four copies of Living End since you have more ways to cast it out of your hand than you do through cascade.
Thanks for the link and the tip! I'm not sure about her plan of adding another win condition in the drakes but it's an interesting build for sure.
Went 3-0-1 in a tourney last night with a list that's all-in on land hate (2x Blood Moon, 2x Avalanche Riders, and 4x Fulminators in the main). I've also been running Domri Rade as a fun-of, but I never saw him last night.
I'm thinking for my main building of going all in LD too. What do you think abSBB 1-2 copies Boom // Bust main or sbb starting tomorrow with the split change?
Someone enlighten me but why do I see lists with 1x kari zev's expertise?
I understand we can cast a LE off it if we naturally draw a LE during game. Sure stealing an opponent's dude at any given point of the game isn't a useless ability. But I feel like if people are including it for just the "oh crap I just top decked a LE *sadface*" insurance... I don't see it being that good?
You should read Tim Cheng's rationale for it and tournament report from GP Brisbane where he placed 4th (see farkqu2's posts on page 227 of this primer.) In general, it is, as you say, Living End draw insurance with, as others have said, some other situational applications. At this point it's a matter of (a) preference and (b) your meta, not dogma.
It makes sense to me to run it, though, and the cost of running a singleton copy is low. There are plenty of games I've lost after drawing Living End in multiples with no time to suspend. And I've won games by casting Kari Zev's Expertise and just swinging with my team + the abductee without casting a Living End from hand.
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Went 3-0-1 in a tourney last night with a list that's all-in on land hate (2x Blood Moon, 2x Avalanche Riders, and 4x Fulminators in the main). I've also been running Domri Rade as a fun-of, but I never saw him last night.
I'm thinking for my main building of going all in LD too. What do you think abSBB 1-2 copies Boom // Bust main or sbb starting tomorrow with the split change?
I've never played the card, so take this with a grain of salt:
Boom seems interesting. Good, even. Boom in multiples probably necessitates playing more lands than LE lists typically do--so between adding lands and new cards, I'd be curious to see what comes out--but it's worth exploring.
I'm not sure how to rate Bust. It's a huge hoser following a resolved LE, but it's rather counterintuitive when you're curving up toward it with spot removal on enemy lands via Fulminator and Riders. I'm not condfident that this is what we want in context of our usual LD plan. As a SB option in place of the usual plan, on the other hand, it seems more promising (but still obviously worse than Fulminator/Riders/Beast Within/Blood Moon).
Deck 2 dident perform at all over 6 games, missed all land destruction in all games. Run really poorly but thats the varience the deck have.
But i think this is the safest pick if going to a tournament.
That is some ***** luck there my friend. Variance is straight murder sometimes, but I am curious what your mulligan/keep decisions looked like after losing 6 games. I also feel like sometimes platforms like Cockatrice and Xmage get a little funky with randomization, so there's that.
For a sidenote i fear that Street Wraith is in consideration for baning to soften up Deaths shadow.
I don't think this will happen any time soon and in fact will undertake to kiss everyone here's ass if they ban Street Wraith in the near term. I think the consensus is: Death's Shadow is certainly a competitive and prevalent deck and seems to be the best performing deck at present, but it isn't nearly as oppressive as the top decks in other recent meta games. So, be cool my babies.
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I'm thinking for my main building of going all in LD too. What do you think abSBB 1-2 copies Boom // Bust main or sbb starting tomorrow with the split change?
It is hard to say without knowing what your list and meta looks like. I love the LD element of Living End, but you may be straying into the territory of overkill. Avalanche Riders is great because it destroys a land, attacks the turn it comes down, and then conveniently goes into the graveyard of its own accord and thereby supports the main plan while boosting our secondary plan. While Blood Moon does not contribute to the main plan, it is definitely powerful enough that it can bump a land and a flex spot in the main without me getting squeamish. Anything beyond that and it gets significantly more painful to make cuts.
As a sideboard card, sure, it seems ok, but what match ups are you conceding percentage points against to accommodate more land destruction? As a rule, Living End feels disadvantaged against control (somewhat), burn, faster combo, and decks that can run multiple pieces of hate and my sideboard, along with most sideboards, is specifically built against those decks. The generic list feels pretty good against decks where LD matters since it runs 7 pieces of LD main (x4 Fulminator Mage and x3 Beast Within) and the Brisbane list takes it to the next level without sacrificing too much of our main game plan (-1 Beast Within and -1 land is a very low cost.) I think you would necessarily be cutting out cards that fight our worst match ups for cards that are good against decks we're already good against.
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There is a lot of talk right now of SSG getting a ban. Some people say it's an essential four-of in our deck (I only run 3x) but what do you guys think if it gets banned?
Sidenote:
Woo, ordered my foil Horrors and Cerodons
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Standard // nRG Aggro
Modern // Burn (main) and Living End (secondary) now Jund.
For fun check out my janky combo primer: Turn 3 Grixis Combo
"Can't beat em' Jund em'!"
There is a lot of talk right now of SSG getting a ban. Some people say it's an essential four-of in our deck (I only run 3x) but what do you guys think if it gets banned?
I remain highly skeptical of a ban. I am trying to see what deck Simian Spirit Guide makes problematic at present and am whiffing. Perhaps you or someone could enlighten me as to the nature of this talk?
Certainly losing Simian Spirit Guide makes the few match ups where we want an early combo much worse. You also can't do shenanigans trying to bait your opponent into thinking you don't have the third mana source for a Violent Outburst and over committing or busting out a tricksy Ricochet Trap.
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I understand we can cast a LE off it if we naturally draw a LE during game. Sure stealing an opponent's dude at any given point of the game isn't a useless ability. But I feel like if people are including it for just the "oh crap I just top decked a LE *sadface*" insurance... I don't see it being that good?
Modern // Burn (main) and Living End (secondary) now Jund.
For fun check out my janky combo primer: Turn 3 Grixis Combo
"Can't beat em' Jund em'!"
Exactly! But I dont wanna go this way, I think the cascade is still the best way to do LE, but what I get from this list for me is better set of creatures.
You guys are still talking about splashing and consistency but Im trying to say its a new build, new colours, so blue is not really a splash. Heck, that Emma Handy build, I think As Foretold is in the just to show it of. I dont want it in. You can take those 3 copies out and put lands in and I think its still competitive build. Why? Lets talk it through:
1) Dismember instead of Beast Within
You got 2 (or 3, since you can take 4th LE out if we are not playing As Foretold) instead of Beast within. What does it mean? No land destruction and making tokens for demonic dread. You still got your fulminators you got your land denial plan going, if you want more, you can always get in avalanche riders. No token for Dread is also ok, since you got second cascade which doesnt need targets. Also, you can always play one Dryad arbor if you are worried about this. PROs: you got quicker interaction in certain hurtful matchups. Turn 1 on the draw can kill ooze before it eats your graveyard, turn 2 can kill Thalia, so you can LE next turn. etc. which Beast within without SSG cant do.
2)Better creatures IMHO
You lose those clunky minoutaurs that always shoot you faeries and got your new curator, you play 4 architects which most of you do anyway and can hardcast them all the time with no sweat, you lose those slow spiders who would always got chumped anyways and got new brutal archfiends.
Sooo...you now got 8 freaking flyers maindeck!!!! This lets you fly over anything LE might bring back from you opponents graveyard and win.
Also, I would personally swap carabids for the new Horrors. Its always so sad to see carabid running and dieing crashing against super-big goyf. This would certainly be an upgrade. But maybe we want to keep focus on blue/red so one land can cycle all our creatures, so you can still upgrade carabids for Desert cerodons. Still, overall, this makes better army than our current rooster.
3)Drake haven IS good sideboard plan.
If graveyard hate is prominent in your local meta, or globally anyway, drake haven is great card to play around that. you no longer need to sandbag you cyclers hoping to draw beast to kill RiP. Now you can have Havens, 2 other hate removal cards, heck even SB Le out and laugh histerically at their graveyard hate. you just cycle, make drakes, then get curator and archfiend out and kill them. OR just switch haven for Faith of the devoted and just drain them out. This would be really funny if death shadow player gets dangerously low on life and you just kill them with two cyclers :DDDD
4) Im little worried about that White mana. But adding those 3 lands instead of As foretold and little tweaking, it should be ok and reliable.
To end this, this is all just speculations. But when i finally have time this weekend, this list as I talked about it is first I will be heavily testing and expect positive results. Still, that doesnt mean that the old and tested build is suddenly bad or something. its still great, even though I strongly suggest sacking carabids and minotaurs for beasts and horrors. But i think this build provides fresh perspective and experience and maybe is less hateable.
That and Remand matchups. Also, can be sometimes surprise kill against death shadow, tron, or something which finishes with big creatures. But i personally would bother with it unless i was playing Blood moon main package
I strongly disagree with Dismember being a fitting replacement for Beast Within. Beast Within is still our only enchantment removal (and it is even MB) and I think you are underestimating the value of land destruction and token production. I have played so many games, which were decided by right amount of land destruction.
Goldfish testing shows that 6 cascade + 1 Expertise doesn't really mess with the ability to resolve living end when you need it to. I still have yet to do extensive testing in an environment of targeted discard removal so that remains to be seen. I'd imagine bumping it up to 7 cascade + 1 expertise is fine, especially since most lists are already on 7 cascades to begin with.
About the Cascadeless list, I'm pretty sure you should run 4 Faithless Looting, 4 Cathartic Reunion and maybe even Goblin Lore or Serum Visions in this kind of deck. And you don't need any cycler, you could play any kind of fun creatures.
The Major problem of this kind of list is the lack of consistency: You need to draw a Living End, an Enabler, and Cyclers/Discard enablers.
Sure, but I dont think MB enchantment removal is really that necessary. And SBwise, you got better options thanks to white. And as I said, you still got fulminators and you can get Avalanche riders, but in my experience, if your not going down the blood moon path, fulminators as land destruction are more than enough. Also, Im sure we all played games that were decided by that, but also many which werent. Heck, I even remember games where I got killed only by my own beast token.... but that doesnt mean Beast within is bad card, but it also doesnt mean that you cannot play and win without it. Sure, it is certainly most universal card but right now Im curious what spicy white hate cards can be used in its place
EDIT: like this, Wispmare. its probably a ***** card, but it can be used and it goes with LE philosophy.
2-1 vs. Affinity: the ability to Cascade at instant speed via Outburst really saved my bacon in this matchup (and in others later on). People saying that we can cut green without losing much are dreaming, IMO. Game 3 got really grindy, with his insane start forcing me to SSG into a turn 2 Outburst with only a lone Carabid to bring back. As the game drew on, the utility of the LE archetype really shone. Blood Moon turned off his Nexuses (Nexii?), Ingot Chewer and Beast Withins stripped protection from his Etched Champions and eventually killed a Champ outright, and playing Demonic Dread and Kari Zev's on the same turn for their secondary effects allowed me to finally punch through for lethal. Fun matchup.
1-1-1 against Mono-U Tron. Unlike other Tron decks, they have maindeck options for dealing with a resolved Blood Moon. Between that and Relic of Progenitus, the matchup feels tough, but I could be wrong--first time facing U Tron. The games were so long and grindy that we went to turns and finished with a draw.
2-0 against Jeskai Aggro. My T2 SSG-powered Blood Moon hosed him pretty well in the first game. Outburst's instant speed Cascade was the only reason I survived game 2, with an honorable mention to the Architects, whose EtB effect saved me from a Bolt-related demise.
2-1 against Naya Zoo. I couldn't quite handle the perfect progression he came out with in game two despite Brindle Boar's valiant efforts, but otherwise this matchup suits us just fine. Yet again, Outburst at instant speed was crucial.
I'm having an incredible time piloting this deck. Can't wait for the Amonkhet lads to join the ranks.
I don't play this deck, but I feel like this opens up some great possibilities now. Breaking // Entering now counts as an 8 drop in your library, and could be used to fill the 'yard with creatures the turn before casting a cascade spell. Mouth // Feed has the potential to draw buttloads of cards, and Insult // Injury would make for some crazy fast kills.
Mainboard enchantment removal is really important, especially if this deck becomes more popular. Keep in mind it also kills things that aren't just hate but things that kill you outright, like Pyromancers ascension and Urzatron pieces and Karn and Ugin. Because beast within does so much more though, it also clears up room in your sb for more specific answers. I would far rather be in a match up where I could side out beast for something I specifically needed in the match up, like life gain against burn, than have to start moving cyclers to the board to make room. I have also won with the token quite a few times, it is a 3/3 body when you need one.
Just for context, most of the time this card is a better vindicate for this list, and vindicate is a card that would see play in modern for sure.
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I like it too but I think it has more uses than just against affinity. I think it might be good against most fast-starting aggro decks (perhaps not Burn) somewhat like an after the fact chalice or a better maelstrom. It's good for destroying ramp creatures and mana rocks and plays into our mana disruption/control game buying us time. It can also off the GY hate. For the record I'm playing the Mooning End version of the deck.
Also strong against tokens including your own beastly ones.
Thanks for the link and the tip! I'm not sure about her plan of adding another win condition in the drakes but it's an interesting build for sure.
I'm thinking for my main building of going all in LD too. What do you think abSBB 1-2 copies Boom // Bust main or sbb starting tomorrow with the split change?
You should read Tim Cheng's rationale for it and tournament report from GP Brisbane where he placed 4th (see farkqu2's posts on page 227 of this primer.) In general, it is, as you say, Living End draw insurance with, as others have said, some other situational applications. At this point it's a matter of (a) preference and (b) your meta, not dogma.
It makes sense to me to run it, though, and the cost of running a singleton copy is low. There are plenty of games I've lost after drawing Living End in multiples with no time to suspend. And I've won games by casting Kari Zev's Expertise and just swinging with my team + the abductee without casting a Living End from hand.
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life
I've never played the card, so take this with a grain of salt:
Boom seems interesting. Good, even. Boom in multiples probably necessitates playing more lands than LE lists typically do--so between adding lands and new cards, I'd be curious to see what comes out--but it's worth exploring.
I'm not sure how to rate Bust. It's a huge hoser following a resolved LE, but it's rather counterintuitive when you're curving up toward it with spot removal on enemy lands via Fulminator and Riders. I'm not condfident that this is what we want in context of our usual LD plan. As a SB option in place of the usual plan, on the other hand, it seems more promising (but still obviously worse than Fulminator/Riders/Beast Within/Blood Moon).
That is some ***** luck there my friend. Variance is straight murder sometimes, but I am curious what your mulligan/keep decisions looked like after losing 6 games. I also feel like sometimes platforms like Cockatrice and Xmage get a little funky with randomization, so there's that.
I don't think this will happen any time soon and in fact will undertake to kiss everyone here's ass if they ban Street Wraith in the near term. I think the consensus is: Death's Shadow is certainly a competitive and prevalent deck and seems to be the best performing deck at present, but it isn't nearly as oppressive as the top decks in other recent meta games. So, be cool my babies.
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life
It is hard to say without knowing what your list and meta looks like. I love the LD element of Living End, but you may be straying into the territory of overkill. Avalanche Riders is great because it destroys a land, attacks the turn it comes down, and then conveniently goes into the graveyard of its own accord and thereby supports the main plan while boosting our secondary plan. While Blood Moon does not contribute to the main plan, it is definitely powerful enough that it can bump a land and a flex spot in the main without me getting squeamish. Anything beyond that and it gets significantly more painful to make cuts.
As a sideboard card, sure, it seems ok, but what match ups are you conceding percentage points against to accommodate more land destruction? As a rule, Living End feels disadvantaged against control (somewhat), burn, faster combo, and decks that can run multiple pieces of hate and my sideboard, along with most sideboards, is specifically built against those decks. The generic list feels pretty good against decks where LD matters since it runs 7 pieces of LD main (x4 Fulminator Mage and x3 Beast Within) and the Brisbane list takes it to the next level without sacrificing too much of our main game plan (-1 Beast Within and -1 land is a very low cost.) I think you would necessarily be cutting out cards that fight our worst match ups for cards that are good against decks we're already good against.
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life
Sidenote:
Woo, ordered my foil Horrors and Cerodons
Modern // Burn (main) and Living End (secondary) now Jund.
For fun check out my janky combo primer: Turn 3 Grixis Combo
"Can't beat em' Jund em'!"
I remain highly skeptical of a ban. I am trying to see what deck Simian Spirit Guide makes problematic at present and am whiffing. Perhaps you or someone could enlighten me as to the nature of this talk?
Certainly losing Simian Spirit Guide makes the few match ups where we want an early combo much worse. You also can't do shenanigans trying to bait your opponent into thinking you don't have the third mana source for a Violent Outburst and over committing or busting out a tricksy Ricochet Trap.
Modern: GW Elves; Living End
Pauper: Stompy; RW Tokens
Beer: Miller High Life