blood moon does nothing to the twin varient in most cases, most of the cycling is red colored. 1 basic island and your good for a blood moon. if anything blood moon helps the deck by turning on double red. sure we lose the black and green in a lot of cases, but in that version of the deck only 1 of each is ever necessary for 1 moment.
"Oops, i win" is a strong part of any deck. Being able to win out of no where is something i love. The fact we run so many cyclers is the reason i think twin works well with the deck.
I'm not saying the Twin version is better than the normal, im just saying that it is actually pretty good. One of the reasons i have been playing it is to branch out from the normal list and to have fun doing it. I found the deck hilarious. The fact that i have done pretty well with it where i am is just a bonus.
Saying that I am going to try and make it to a PPTQ tomorrow and i will be playing the original living end list. My Architects of Will still havent arrived... I will most likely post that list up soon.
I think you have it summarized pretty nicely here. No one is making the claim that one is "better" than the other. They're just "different." Play what you like, both builds are still good.
Also, good luck at the PPTQ! Tournament reports are mandatory
So do you guys expect Living End to go up in price at all if it doesn't see a reprint in MM15? I am thinking about building this deck (the LSV version with the Twin combo), and I am wondering if I should buy Living End now or wait to see if it makes it into MM15.
Living End itself is rather cheap at about $5 now I believe and I doubt it'll go up unless it starts top 8ing some tournaments. The cards that might be worth a wait are splinter twin and fulminator mage which are both getting MM15 rare reprints which will hopefully drop their price, if only slightly. As for fetches, Khans fetches are the cheapest they'll ever be and I can only assume zendikar fetches will get a reprint since that's where the next set is.
I will be joining the Living End crew guys: I'll order this deck and will most probably receive my cards in a week or so. The only cards I will wait to get are the 3 Fulminator Mage with MM2. Here's what I'll be playing.
I'll post my tournament results for sure. Also, I'll need your help with matchup analysis and sideboarding in order to be competitive (as I am a completely new player with this deck).
I will be joining the Living End crew guys: I'll order this deck and will most probably receive my cards in a week or so. The only cards I will wait to get are the 3 Fulminator Mage with MM2. Here's what I'll be playing.
~snip~
I'll post my tournament results for sure. Also, I'll need your help with matchup analysis and sideboarding in order to be competitive (as I am a completely new player with this deck).
Cheers!
18 lands might be cutting it a little close with only 3 landcyclers, even with the full set of Simian Spirit Guide. I'd look into squeezing a 19th land in there.
Personally, I prefer it be 2 Jungle weavers and 4 pale recluse. Though with the rise of tasigur, I may be behind the times.
Also, I generally think some mainboard interaction is good, but 2 shriekmaw might be overkill. I don't know your meta though
Thanks for the response, I don't like Pale Recluse cause he only fixes my mana and I want the 2 more Cyclers.
My Meta is full of GBx Shells (Jund,Abzan,Liege,Podless Pod). Many Oozes hanging around.
Maybe a cut one Shriekmaw MD for a 3rd Pale Recluse.
Doing that would make your list very close to what I run. (My MD is -2 Architects, +1 SSG, +1 land) I never have trouble with GB/x decks. Damping Matrix can be helpful in those matchups for stopping Scavenging Ooze and friends, but be wary of Abrupt Decay.
Also, I echo the same concerns about your list as I do with TomCourtenay's - too few mana sources.
18 lands might be cutting it a little close with only 3 landcyclers, even with the full set of Simian Spirit Guide. I'd look into squeezing a 19th land in there.
Thanks for the info. I'll add 1 Swamp in there and cut 1 Pale Recluse.
That reminds me, I've been meaning to add a subsection to the primer that deals exclusively with the Splinter Twin version of the deck. There are two small problems with this:
1. I haven't played that version of the deck at all, so me writing about it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.
2. I work a lot and can't find the time to do a full writeup anyway.
If someone in the thread wants to take a crack at it, submit it to me via PM and I'll put it in the primer with your name on it.
So I played FNM on Friday came third, the two most interesting games was my top table loss to RGTron of all things and my first round victory over living twin. 1St game he had no lands through my destroying them, second game will be remembered for my opponent finally managing to play exarch through a barrage of land hate, hmm so I asked him why he's on this course of LE rather than traditional build. His answer was basically the same as every one else's on here, it's fun, it's an alternative win con, it's hard to defeat two different combos etc. So I showed him the error in his thinking, beasted his exarch, violent outburst, job done!! Living twin is cute, I guess if your opponent has no interaction it may work but as a deck, in my opinion it's awful.
I run Elves, they're fantastic fun, can be incredibly fast, T 2 very possible but they share the same problem as twinning end, if your opponent had the smallest amount of interaction to the combo, your stuffed and the ten cards you've wasted in those slots may as well be lands!!
You can't judge the deck off the result of one matchup. What was the Living Twin player's record for the tournament?
awesome! always great to see new people picking up the deck. This reprint is realy gonna help with me foiling out the deck. Now if only they would reprint Simian Spirit Guide
Very glad to have picked up the deck and I'll post all my results when I'll begin playing it competitively in June : I'll playtest with a friend before and get the 3 Fulminator Mage after May 22nd!
Yeah for Fulminator Mage's!!! This was first my legit deck that I built for Modern but I didn't want to spend $40 plus on the Mages at the time so I played without them. I quickly realized though that you really need them to compete against the top decks in the meta. Anyway, I'm picking up the Mages when they reprinted and I'll have to dust off my Living End deck sitting in my binder.
What do you people think of Living End/Splinter Twin deck that Top'd 8 this past weekend SCG? Thanks!
Yeah for Fulminator Mage's!!! This was first my legit deck that I built for Modern but I didn't want to spend $40 plus on the Mages at the time so I played without them. I quickly realized though that you really need them to compete against the top decks in the meta. Anyway, I'm picking up the Mages when they reprinted and I'll have to dust off my Living End deck sitting in my binder.
What do you people think of Living End/Splinter Twin deck that Top'd 8 this past weekend SCG? Thanks!
Awesome that you join the Living End crew!
Living Twin is interesting I think. There's three build I saw of it:
- The first one is Sprayquaza on MTGO, March 18th, going 3-1.
- The third one is Colten Anderson at SCG Modern Premier IQ Portland.
In my opinion, Living Twin should not run Pestermite and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. I'm fine dealing with 4 Splinter Twin and 4 Deceiver Exarch. I think it's a great alternate win condition that isn't going againt the main game plan, which is cascading into Living End. Knowing we're going down as tier 3, I think that we'll have to see with the GP in May and June to see if Living Twin is viable (which I think is ; it needs to be polished). Eventually, if Living Twin is viable, we'll have to adjust and we'll be back as a force in tier 2.
Also, something really intersting about it I read by Lars Thomas Bremnes:
Cycling as a mechanic itself effectively lets you pay mana to have a reduced deck size, which is great for combo decks. This means that when you cycle the creatures, not only do you help set up the Living End combo, you also get to dig for the Twin combo. That means that this deck gets to circumvent the common problem with double combo decks where you get half the cards you need for each combo. Furthermore, the combos themselves can't be stopped by the same cards for the most part: graveyard hate cancels Living End but does nothing against Twin and spot removal is usually good against Twin but subpar against Living End. Wrath effects are good against both, but they cost a lot of mana and if you get to cast Living End again you're in business.
So to me at this point, this could be a viable Living Twin deck :
Here are 4 reasons not to main deck Twin cards, but people still will. Path to exileAbrupt DecaydismemberCombust or the new one I can't recall its name at the moment, pretty much every decent deck that doesn't work by lockdown runs one of these in the main board. Twin decks can protect their twin cards, we can't so why give them a target and make 8-10 cards in your deck redundant. The worst thing is these cards are so bloody cheap to cast and instant speed. If twin decks couldn't protect their combo they wouldn't see play because tapping Four mana for your opponent to remove the target of Splinter twin for one mana in your turn, would probably put you in a losing position. But hey, I seem to be a lone voice on here.
Twinning End protects its combo by using a different combo. (btw, the card you're thinking of is Rending Volley.)
And you're not the only Living End "purist" around here - I don't play Twin cards in my list either. But rather than try to rationalize my decision not to play them by championing my own style or pissing on Twin players, I acknowledge the merits and flaws of one strategy vs. another.
I'd say we need to see GPs in and more MTGO play about Living Twin, but still I'm more a ''purist'' as you said about the deck. I think it might evolve into incorporating Twin cards, but it's to soon to say so.
Here are 4 reasons not to main deck Twin cards, but people still will. Path to exile Abrupt Decay dismember Combust or the new one I can't recall its name at the moment, pretty much every decent deck that doesn't work by lockdown runs one of these in the main board. Twin decks can protect their twin cards, we can't so why give them a target and make 8-10 cards in your deck redundant. The worst thing is these cards are so bloody cheap to cast and instant speed. If twin decks couldn't protect their combo they wouldn't see play because tapping Four mana for your opponent to remove the target of Splinter twin for one mana in your turn, would probably put you in a losing position. But hey, I seem to be a lone voice on here.
Actually those are 4 good reasons to have the Twin combo MD. If the opponent sees Twin cards in G1 you can then trim that package while they side in a bunch of removal that really isn't very good against the Living End half of your deck. Running both combos allows for a lot of flexibility and can force many SB errors by the opponent.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I think you have it summarized pretty nicely here. No one is making the claim that one is "better" than the other. They're just "different." Play what you like, both builds are still good.
Also, good luck at the PPTQ!
Tournament reports are mandatoryYour ride is now officially off my Christmas card list.
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Street Wraith
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Architects of Will
2 Jungle Weaver
2 Pale Recluse
2 Shriekmaw
1 Twisted Abomination
Spells (14)
4 Demonic Dread
4 Violent Outburst
3 Living End
3 Beast Within
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Avalanche Riders
2 Boil
2 Faerie Macabre
I'll post my tournament results for sure. Also, I'll need your help with matchup analysis and sideboarding in order to be competitive (as I am a completely new player with this deck).
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Personally, I prefer it be 2 Jungle weavers and 4 pale recluse. Though with the rise of tasigur, I may be behind the times.
Also, I generally think some mainboard interaction is good, but 2 shriekmaw might be overkill. I don't know your meta though
18 lands might be cutting it a little close with only 3 landcyclers, even with the full set of Simian Spirit Guide. I'd look into squeezing a 19th land in there.
Doing that would make your list very close to what I run. (My MD is -2 Architects, +1 SSG, +1 land) I never have trouble with GB/x decks. Damping Matrix can be helpful in those matchups for stopping Scavenging Ooze and friends, but be wary of Abrupt Decay.
Also, I echo the same concerns about your list as I do with TomCourtenay's - too few mana sources.
Thanks for the info. I'll add 1 Swamp in there and cut 1 Pale Recluse.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
1. I haven't played that version of the deck at all, so me writing about it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.
2. I work a lot and can't find the time to do a full writeup anyway.
If someone in the thread wants to take a crack at it, submit it to me via PM and I'll put it in the primer with your name on it.
Living End will likely be demoted to tier 3 on Wednesday. He hasn't been played as much in the last weeks...
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
You can't judge the deck off the result of one matchup. What was the Living Twin player's record for the tournament?
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Very glad to have picked up the deck and I'll post all my results when I'll begin playing it competitively in June : I'll playtest with a friend before and get the 3 Fulminator Mage after May 22nd!
A foil deck is really nice
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
What do you people think of Living End/Splinter Twin deck that Top'd 8 this past weekend SCG? Thanks!
Awesome that you join the Living End crew!
Living Twin is interesting I think. There's three build I saw of it:
- The first one is Sprayquaza on MTGO, March 18th, going 3-1.
2 Shriekmaw
2 Fulminator Mage
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Deadshot Minotaur
1 Pale Recluse
4 Street Wraith
2 Jhessian Zombies
4 Deceiver Exarch
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Violent Outburst
4 Beast Within
Sorcery [6]
3 Living End
3 Demonic Dread
Enchantment [4]
4 Splinter Twin
Land [18]
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Copperline Gorge
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
- The second one is Luis Scott-Vargas (http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-lsv-modern-living-twin/).
- The third one is Colten Anderson at SCG Modern Premier IQ Portland.
In my opinion, Living Twin should not run Pestermite and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. I'm fine dealing with 4 Splinter Twin and 4 Deceiver Exarch. I think it's a great alternate win condition that isn't going againt the main game plan, which is cascading into Living End. Knowing we're going down as tier 3, I think that we'll have to see with the GP in May and June to see if Living Twin is viable (which I think is ; it needs to be polished). Eventually, if Living Twin is viable, we'll have to adjust and we'll be back as a force in tier 2.
Also, something really intersting about it I read by Lars Thomas Bremnes:
So to me at this point, this could be a viable Living Twin deck :
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Street Wraith
2 Architects of Will
1 Jungle Weaver
1 Twisted Abomination
Spells (14)
4 Splinter Twin
4 Violent Outburst
3 Demonic Dread
3 Living End
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Watery Grave
3 Beast Within
3 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Shriekmaw
2 Ricochet Trap
2 Slaughter Games
1 Dismember
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Twinning End protects its combo by using a different combo. (btw, the card you're thinking of is Rending Volley.)
And you're not the only Living End "purist" around here - I don't play Twin cards in my list either. But rather than try to rationalize my decision not to play them by championing my own style or pissing on Twin players, I acknowledge the merits and flaws of one strategy vs. another.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Actually those are 4 good reasons to have the Twin combo MD. If the opponent sees Twin cards in G1 you can then trim that package while they side in a bunch of removal that really isn't very good against the Living End half of your deck. Running both combos allows for a lot of flexibility and can force many SB errors by the opponent.