Ha. I'm happy to hear someone else is foiled up! I'm foiled as well but rarely bring it anywhere.. usually just puts a giant bullseye on you at smaller tourneys. Perfect for a GP though! Are you going to Hartford this spring as well or just Toronto?
I know what you mean.. I rarely get to play locally and if I do i get hated out hard.. I think Bogles is a great large event deck and I rode it last year to my only day 2 ever at an SCG.. I won't be in Hartford.. a little out of my range (live across the border from detroit). Will for sure be at both Toronto s and Detroit and hopefully Richmond so i can play my beloved Enchantress in some legacy... I'm actually thinking Bogles will line up nicely for the team trios.. I haven't had luck with it in unified as Infect and Ad Naus always seem to be super present..
Ha. I'm happy to hear someone else is foiled up! I'm foiled as well but rarely bring it anywhere.. usually just puts a giant bullseye on you at smaller tourneys. Perfect for a GP though! Are you going to Hartford this spring as well or just Toronto?
I know what you mean.. I rarely get to play locally and if I do i get hated out hard.. I think Bogles is a great large event deck and I rode it last year to my only day 2 ever at an SCG.. I won't be in Hartford.. a little out of my range (live across the border from detroit). Will for sure be at both Toronto s and Detroit and hopefully Richmond so i can play my beloved Enchantress in some legacy... I'm actually thinking Bogles will line up nicely for the team trios.. I haven't had luck with it in unified as Infect and Ad Naus always seem to be super present..
Cool. Yeah, I think it's a great choice for a GP. The only part I don't like about bringing it to a tournament with that many rounds is that it inevitably malfunctions for a round or two. That pretty much means you have to win every winnable match.. but I guess that's true of any deck to an extent. Good luck in Toronto and let me know how it goes. There was a small bogle group in Spain this weekend. Pretty stock lists. A few of them did pretty well.
Thanks to all for the feedback! Excited to see all the fellow Bogles players in Toronto this weekend.I tested Gryff's Boon in place of Spirit Mantle, currently I like Spirit Mantle better because it's the best evasion and protective aura in the game, even at 2 CMC. I don't really like Dissenter's Deliverance because it doesn't get rid of enchants, mostly Blood Moon who neutralizes the deck entirely : still an interesting choice in an a artifact based meta. The card I'm most interested in running right now is Spirit Link : I would cut my Cartouche and a Mantle for it. I still need to test it more though, as Cartouche is very helpful against LotV and Edict effects. I'm currently running a singleton of Ledgewalker to give more creature to the deck : most of the times, you're playing the game against your opening hand and one more creature gives us one more chance to not Mulligan. Have a good day all! *written from.my cell phone
Thanks to all for the feedback! Excited to see all the fellow Bogles players in Toronto this weekend.I tested Gryff's Boon in place of Spirit Mantle, currently I like Spirit Mantle better because it's the best evasion and protective aura in the game, even at 2 CMC. I don't really like Dissenter's Deliverance because it doesn't get rid of enchants, mostly Blood Moon who neutralizes the deck entirely : still an interesting choice in an a artifact based meta. The card I'm most interested in running right now is Spirit Link : I would cut my Cartouche and a Mantle for it. I still need to test it more though, as Cartouche is very helpful against LotV and Edict effects. I'm currently running a singleton of Ledgewalker to give more creature to the deck : most of the times, you're playing the game against your opening hand and one more creature gives us one more chance to not Mulligan. Have a good day all! *written from.my cell phone
Do you mean running a MB Spirit Link as opposed to a SB copy, because I noticed in your initial list you already have one in the side? I agree with your take on Spirit Mantle; Gryff's Boon is a perfectly acceptable aura to run in the deck, but I don't think of it as a replacement for Mantle. Same deal with Deliverance; it would be an instant SB add if it took care of enchantments as well, but instead I've ended up mixing and matching artifact/enchant hate and currently run a single Deliverance. The only suggestion I'd give based on your list is that you may want to re-consider your ratio of Spiritdancers/Totem Armor auras. Spiritdancer can be amazing if she's allowed to do her thing, but that requires her to dodge removal. Even though I only play two Spiritdancers nowadays, I still want to MB at least 7 Totem Armor effects; IMO, you may have a hard time protecting her while running 4 copies and 6 Totem Armor effects. Otherwise, have fun and good luck out there!
One thing I'm about to test is Dromoka's Command in place of Path to Exile. It gives us a TON of mainboard tech against many decks in the format, even when they have no creatures.
Against Burn: Counter a Deflecting Palm and fight a creature, or put a counter on our lifelink creature and have it fight to gain a ton of life.
Against Control: Force them to sac Search for Azcanta or Blood Moon
Just two examples I thought would get the conversation going.
One thing I'm about to test is Dromoka's Command in place of Path to Exile. It gives us a TON of mainboard tech against many decks in the format, even when they have no creatures.
Against Burn: Counter a Deflecting Palm and fight a creature, or put a counter on our lifelink creature and have it fight to gain a ton of life.
Against Control: Force them to sac Search for Azcanta or Blood Moon
Just two examples I thought would get the conversation going.
I think Dromoka's Command seems much better in theory than it actually plays out. The scenarios where it shines are pretty narrow. I tested it last year for a bit. I think you'll be happier with Path. Just cleaner and more efficient. I don't love path but it's easily the best white/green has to offer. I think killing something with Path that doesn't HAVE to be killed is a mistake a lot of people make when they first pick up the deck. Accelerating Merfolk or Humans or Jund on turn 2,3,4 is not where you want to be. I don't cast Path unless I absolutely have to.
Spirit Link is a great card but comes with the downside of not buffing the creature. I usually play one in the main and one in the board. It's def not a card you want to see a ton of.. but it can turn things massively in your favor against fast creature decks (affinity, merfolk, humans, goblins...). It's just almost completely dead against things like Tron, Strom, and Lantern.
One thing I'm about to test is Dromoka's Command in place of Path to Exile. It gives us a TON of mainboard tech against many decks in the format, even when they have no creatures.
Against Burn: Counter a Deflecting Palm and fight a creature, or put a counter on our lifelink creature and have it fight to gain a ton of life.
Against Control: Force them to sac Search for Azcanta or Blood Moon
Just two examples I thought would get the conversation going.
I think Dromoka's Command seems much better in theory than it actually plays out. The scenarios where it shines are pretty narrow. I tested it last year for a bit. I think you'll be happier with Path. Just cleaner and more efficient. I don't love path but it's easily the best white/green has to offer. I think killing something with Path that doesn't HAVE to be killed is a mistake a lot of people make when they first pick up the deck. Accelerating Merfolk or Humans or Jund on turn 2,3,4 is not where you want to be. I don't cast Path unless I absolutely have to.
Spirit Link is a great card but comes with the downside of not buffing the creature. I usually play one in the main and one in the board. It's def not a card you want to see a ton of.. but it can turn things massively in your favor against fast creature decks (affinity, merfolk, humans, goblins...). It's just almost completely dead against things like Tron, Strom, and Lantern.
Of course. I've piloted Bogles for years now and tested a wide range of different choices. However, at the very least Command is not dead in as many matchups as Path is. It also doesn't have the major downside of ramping your opponent, so it can get rid of an incidental creature while giving an incidental advantage. Think of the matchups where Path is dead or just a bad decision:
Control
Tron
Humans
Against control it gets rid of BM/Search, can remove Snap without making you feel like you just gave them a free Rampant Growth, and at the VERY least can grow your creature. Path is better against Tron, to be sure, as preventing them from getting Wurmcoil value is key. Against Humans, or any creature-based deck, getting lifegain from the fight and just growing the creature is doing far more than Path ever does. Don't forget the ORIGINAL reason why Bogles picked up Path. We did it so that we could fight against Splinter Twin. Since then, people just run them anyway. Honestly, NOT running removal mainboard at all could in fact yield a lot of success. Coming from someone who playtested Cartouche of Strength against Storm, Mardu Pyromancer, Affinity, and Tron and been COMPLETELY satisfied, I think that we shouldn't sleep on Dromoka's Command so quickly.
On the topic of Spirit Link, I find that for every case where it would be good, Cartouche of Solidarity is better. For every instance where it WOULD be useful, about half the time it's just a "win-more" card. Cartouche gives stats, is a strictly better Hyena Umbra in 70% of cases, gains life in the form of a blocker, and gives more damage in the form of your free attacker. Replacing Spirit Link with it also adds redundancy so that edict effects mean nothing. Finally, in the matchups where it shines, we already are highly favored to win. Drawing one in a scenario where it actually gives you a distinct advantage over Cartouche happens once in a blue moon. I believe that it works better in a world where we don't run mainboard Leylines, where we don't desperately need our auras to give stats.
One thing I'm about to test is Dromoka's Command in place of Path to Exile. It gives us a TON of mainboard tech against many decks in the format, even when they have no creatures.
Against Burn: Counter a Deflecting Palm and fight a creature, or put a counter on our lifelink creature and have it fight to gain a ton of life.
Against Control: Force them to sac Search for Azcanta or Blood Moon
Just two examples I thought would get the conversation going.
I think Dromoka's Command seems much better in theory than it actually plays out. The scenarios where it shines are pretty narrow. I tested it last year for a bit. I think you'll be happier with Path. Just cleaner and more efficient. I don't love path but it's easily the best white/green has to offer. I think killing something with Path that doesn't HAVE to be killed is a mistake a lot of people make when they first pick up the deck. Accelerating Merfolk or Humans or Jund on turn 2,3,4 is not where you want to be. I don't cast Path unless I absolutely have to.
Spirit Link is a great card but comes with the downside of not buffing the creature. I usually play one in the main and one in the board. It's def not a card you want to see a ton of.. but it can turn things massively in your favor against fast creature decks (affinity, merfolk, humans, goblins...). It's just almost completely dead against things like Tron, Strom, and Lantern.
Of course. I've piloted Bogles for years now and tested a wide range of different choices. However, at the very least Command is not dead in as many matchups as Path is. It also doesn't have the major downside of ramping your opponent, so it can get rid of an incidental creature while giving an incidental advantage. Think of the matchups where Path is dead or just a bad decision:
Control
Tron
Humans
Against control it gets rid of BM/Search, can remove Snap without making you feel like you just gave them a free Rampant Growth, and at the VERY least can grow your creature. Path is better against Tron, to be sure, as preventing them from getting Wurmcoil value is key. Against Humans, or any creature-based deck, getting lifegain from the fight and just growing the creature is doing far more than Path ever does. Don't forget the ORIGINAL reason why Bogles picked up Path. We did it so that we could fight against Splinter Twin. Since then, people just run them anyway. Honestly, NOT running removal mainboard at all could in fact yield a lot of success. Coming from someone who playtested Cartouche of Strength against Storm, Mardu Pyromancer, Affinity, and Tron and been COMPLETELY satisfied, I think that we shouldn't sleep on Dromoka's Command so quickly.
On the topic of Spirit Link, I find that for every case where it would be good, Cartouche of Solidarity is better. For every instance where it WOULD be useful, about half the time it's just a "win-more" card. Cartouche gives stats, is a strictly better Hyena Umbra in 70% of cases, gains life in the form of a blocker, and gives more damage in the form of your free attacker. Replacing Spirit Link with it also adds redundancy so that edict effects mean nothing. Finally, in the matchups where it shines, we already are highly favored to win. Drawing one in a scenario where it actually gives you a distinct advantage over Cartouche happens once in a blue moon. I believe that it works better in a world where we don't run mainboard Leylines, where we don't desperately need our auras to give stats.
D-Command was something that was tested a few years ago, but the meta has certainly changed a lot since then, so I'd be interested to see how it performs in the current environment.
In regards to the statement claiming Cartouche is strictly better than Hyena Umbra, I think that's a stretch at best. They both give +1/+1 and first strike and that's where the similarities end; each card serves a different function and there are plenty of scenarios where you'd want one over the other.
I personally have not played this deck a TON, per se, but this is something I have more or less thrown together to get my brother back into MTG.
This being said, I just have a few (hopefully) quick questions as to deck options:
--I've been seeing a lot of Seal of Primordiums in sideboard lists, but I've also seen Disenchant and Deglamer/other 2-drop instants of the like. What are the particular benefits of running the instants over Seal? The only benefits I can think of for Seal is that you don't have to pop it straight up (saves mana for later turns and avoids discard) and pumps up Ethereal Armor, but I feel like Disenchant would be better here.
--When I've used this deck, I seem to rely very heavily on Dryad Arbor as a backup Bogle on a regular basis. Is this considered more correct, or should you generally wait for more creatures to draw in normal circumstances?
--I think I know the answer to this one, but is there any decent answer to discard that isn't Leyline of Sanctity? I have a playset, but I'm using them in my deck, which needs them equally as much (Ad Nauseam). The best I've come up with are Noxious Revival and Aegis of the Gods, but these are a stretch at best.
--Until I can acquire Horizon Canopy copies, how should I adjust a deck to compensate? Do I just cut a land or two and throw in some more enchantments?
--What spice have any of you thrown into your decks? My brother on more than one occasion has used his 1-of Mana Tithe and loved every second of it, and if I can find something else to throw in there, that would be awesome. Even just a singleton in the sideboard is good to know.
Thank you guys in advance, this seems like a nice homely community that really knows the deck well. Look forward to the responses!
1) I prefer Seal.. I don't like to hold up mana when I play to be responsive. I like to apply pressure and playing out a seal allows me to just keep deploying the threats from my hand.. If dissenters hit enchantment it would prob be my choice for the cycling..
2)I tend to only use my Dryad arbor to play around sac effects and as an emergency chump blocker.. if I'm loading up on the Arbor it's cause I had to from either a mull to oblivion or recover after a late game board wipe.. but I will admit I'm a little to various with it's usage..
3) no.. leylines or bust...
4) I wouldn't cut land... I would up the fetch count to provide more thinning prob.. the best way to compensate is keen sense.. but I'm not a huge fan.. Canopies are worth the eventual investment..
5) some interesting spice I've seen is Intervention Pact or Triclopean Sight.. I used to hose people by open the armory'ing for detainment spell back when spellskite was around.. that was fun...
D-Command was something that was tested a few years ago, but the meta has certainly changed a lot since then, so I'd be interested to see how it performs in the current environment.
In regards to the statement claiming Cartouche is strictly better than Hyena Umbra, I think that's a stretch at best. They both give +1/+1 and first strike and that's where the similarities end; each card serves a different function and there are plenty of scenarios where you'd want one over the other.
I didn't say that Cartouche of Solidarity was strictly better, I said it was in 70% of cases. That's not incorrect, as in most matchups Hyena Umbra's totem armor doesn't offer anything. Totem armor does little to nothing against Affinity, Burn, Storm, Humans and Mardu Pyromancer, whereas Cartouche of Solidarity does. While there are some scenarios where you want the totem armor, hence why we run the card in the first place, there are many others where all it does is give +1/+1 and first strike.
I have an off question for you though. In the Pro Tour Rivals of Ixalan, neither Bogles list ran Suppression Field. That's always been a weird question of mine, as I've just used it to counter Lilianas or as additional copies of Stony Silence. I also understand that it's another old sideboard card that we used to fight Twin that just stuck after it was banned. What are the ramifications of running it in our current meta, and do you believe that it would be better to run something like Worship, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Ethersworn Canonist or additional sideoboard card copies?
I personally have not played this deck a TON, per se, but this is something I have more or less thrown together to get my brother back into MTG.
This being said, I just have a few (hopefully) quick questions as to deck options:
--I've been seeing a lot of Seal of Primordiums in sideboard lists, but I've also seen Disenchant and Deglamer/other 2-drop instants of the like. What are the particular benefits of running the instants over Seal? The only benefits I can think of for Seal is that you don't have to pop it straight up (saves mana for later turns and avoids discard) and pumps up Ethereal Armor, but I feel like Disenchant would be better here.
--When I've used this deck, I seem to rely very heavily on Dryad Arbor as a backup Bogle on a regular basis. Is this considered more correct, or should you generally wait for more creatures to draw in normal circumstances?
--I think I know the answer to this one, but is there any decent answer to discard that isn't Leyline of Sanctity? I have a playset, but I'm using them in my deck, which needs them equally as much (Ad Nauseam). The best I've come up with are Noxious Revival and Aegis of the Gods, but these are a stretch at best.
--Until I can acquire Horizon Canopy copies, how should I adjust a deck to compensate? Do I just cut a land or two and throw in some more enchantments?
--What spice have any of you thrown into your decks? My brother on more than one occasion has used his 1-of Mana Tithe and loved every second of it, and if I can find something else to throw in there, that would be awesome. Even just a singleton in the sideboard is good to know.
Thank you guys in advance, this seems like a nice homely community that really knows the deck well. Look forward to the responses!
-- Seal of Primordium is good if you're running into something that will have Blood Moon/Chalice as well as counterspells to back them up. You can cast Seal as soon as shield are down to keep Moon off the table. It's easier to slip in past counters. Personally I've been running Krosan Grip as there has been a pesky Nahiri Prison player in my meta who gets Chalice on one AND two faster than I can say "why do you always have Simian Spirit Gui--- *CHALICED*"
-- It sounds as though you need to get used to mulligans a bit more. That's usually what I see people leaning on when they don't mull aggressively enough. Could be wrong, it's just my impression
-- In a different deck I've enjoyed Nephalia Academy as a counter to discard...but that's useless in this deck. I wish there was another answer.
-- I used Brushland. I will stress that Canopy gives the deck SO much extra reach. Bogles with Canopy is 100%, without it you're running at 80% efficiency.
-- OOH, OOH, I CAN ANSWER THIS ONE! Let's see, I've run Cartouche of Strength before! It once got me out from under triple Deflecting Palm by lifelinking me to safety. It's a really great card, and I've used it to counter our Skred player's Stormbreath Dragons.
There's Open the Armory, which technically adds copies of Daybreak Coronet, Rancor, and Ethereal Armor while allowing you to run a jank toolbox sideboard with things like Wheel of Sun and Moon as silver bullet graveyard hate.
I personally have not played this deck a TON, per se, but this is something I have more or less thrown together to get my brother back into MTG.
This being said, I just have a few (hopefully) quick questions as to deck options:
--I've been seeing a lot of Seal of Primordiums in sideboard lists, but I've also seen Disenchant and Deglamer/other 2-drop instants of the like. What are the particular benefits of running the instants over Seal? The only benefits I can think of for Seal is that you don't have to pop it straight up (saves mana for later turns and avoids discard) and pumps up Ethereal Armor, but I feel like Disenchant would be better here.
--When I've used this deck, I seem to rely very heavily on Dryad Arbor as a backup Bogle on a regular basis. Is this considered more correct, or should you generally wait for more creatures to draw in normal circumstances?
--I think I know the answer to this one, but is there any decent answer to discard that isn't Leyline of Sanctity? I have a playset, but I'm using them in my deck, which needs them equally as much (Ad Nauseam). The best I've come up with are Noxious Revival and Aegis of the Gods, but these are a stretch at best.
--Until I can acquire Horizon Canopy copies, how should I adjust a deck to compensate? Do I just cut a land or two and throw in some more enchantments?
--What spice have any of you thrown into your decks? My brother on more than one occasion has used his 1-of Mana Tithe and loved every second of it, and if I can find something else to throw in there, that would be awesome. Even just a singleton in the sideboard is good to know.
Thank you guys in advance, this seems like a nice homely community that really knows the deck well. Look forward to the responses!
1. You're pretty much on point regarding Seal of Primordium, the reason to use it is to avoid having to keep mana up and that it boosts Ethereal Armor. If you'd rather run an instant I'd recommend Nature's Claim/Natural State over Disenchant and Deglamer.
2. Yes, the deck does rely heavily on Dryad Arbor and uses it as the prime aura target fairly frequently. Mulliganing heavily for a Bogle doesn't guarantee you'll get one, and there's also a risk that you get a Bogle but not enough lands and Auras to use it. In a discard heavy meta a single Bogle will often get discarded on the draw anyway, so it's often correct to keep a good 7 card hand without a Bogle on the draw.
3. Not really any other answers to discard no. Are you playing both decks at the same time? Otherwise it's fairly typical to be moving around cards depending on what you want to play in a particular tournament.
4. Just replace them with more Temple Gardens and green fetch lands or Brushlands. I wouldn't go below 20 lands, I'd recommend 21 with Canopies or 20 without.
5. I've used Mana Tithe in the past but it's at its best when there's a lot of instants and specifically blue decks with counterspells in the meta. I'm just not sure if this is the case now. If you do run it I would recommend maindeck rather than sideboard, as it's just way too weak in the sideboard compared to more specific answers. If you want sideboard "spice" some options include Guttoral Response and Gutshot, though again I'm not sure they're a great fit for the current meta.
Glad I got to see this in person.. I went 3-3 drop with virtually the same build.. had a blast though.. a lot of Bogles in the room.. atleast 10 decks day 1
Wow. That was tight. Such a good final. Congrats. Wasn't sure he was going to get there. Seemed like a potentially dangerous keep game 3! Here comes all the hate! Thanks a lot Dan! Haha.
I would also like to point out that Ethan Weber finished 28th with Bogles as well... he is a player from my local meta who I've discussed the deck with many times...
"What was the best card out of your sideboard, and why?
Dromoka’s Command. Chris Juliano said so!"
I CALLED IT! Dromoka's Command is good in Bogles!
Also: Jace unbanning seems to be fantastic news for us. By the time he lands we're well established on board, and he can't bounce a Bogle. If midrange becomes popular because of BBE, then we're also favored.
It will be interesting to see what happens. I'm not sure the unbanning will be good for any deck not named control or jund. The meta is perfect for hexproof right now. We can beat creatures and we can beat decks trying to kill creatures. Sideboard games against control weren't the greatest matchup in the world even without Jace. Counters keep the bogle fairly neutered and the brainstorming every turn will make digging to Supreme Verdict, EE, and Alliance pretty easy. I'm skeptical this is going to help us. I'm not making any predictions but I don't think it could get much better for Bogles than it is right now. We'll see!!
Played in a 12 person WNM. Today was Valentine's Day, so I'm presuming that's why it was light on attendance. 4 rounds.
Round 1 vs. Dredge. I lose game 1 to a lot of bodies and no lifelink. I win game 2 due to Gaddock Teeg and him having to use Abrupt Decay on Rest in Peace. I then cast Kor Spiritdancer and Spider Umbra on the same turn. I draw some Auras and win. In the next game, I do Bogle into Rest in Peace and he couldn't draw a 2nd land after Faithless Looting and Neonate, so he scooped. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Affinity. I lose a game 1 to Cranial Plating. I win a game 2 to a turn 2 Stony Silence. I win game 3 by Seal of Primordium on a Cranial Plating. He goes all-in on Arcbound Ravager after he top decked Engineered Explosives to wipe my board. A 10/10 Ravager attacks to kill my Bogle, but I rebuild with double Kor Spiritdancer and after I draw Spirit Mantle into Path to Exile, I win pretty easily. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Little Kid Bant. I got him in the first game with just enough pressure and Spirit Mantle to win. In the next game, I do Bogle into double Aura, but can't draw much after that. He gets enough bodies to swing through and a Noble Hierarch with 2 counters on it from Gavony Township finishes me off since I can't block 1 creature and am at 2 life. The final game is similar and he gets a Sigarda on turn 4, but I top deck Ethereal Armor. I forget to attack because I don't realize it's lethal (as it's my first Aura drawn in my last 5 draws). But he attacks with the Sigarda and it dies. He forgot that I had a Rest in Peace in play, which made my guy bigger, so lethal is easy next turn. Big punt by me not noticing that I top decked the card which gave exactly 9 lethal damage, but I still got there because it was too strong. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Humans. Paired down to a 2-1. I draw 2 Kor Spiritdancers and 2 Spirit Mantle in the first game. I'm able to put Gryff's Boon on 1 of them and he doesn't draw more than 1 Mantis Rider too late. I stabilize at 1 life and then wait until my Spiritdancer is lethal. In the next game, he gets some pressure, but I draw a 3rd land on turn 5 to cast Unflinching Courage on my double Ethereal Armored dude. That's game. 2-0.
This was my first 4-0 at this LGS in at least 2 months, so it felt really good. I had some awkward draws, but managed to draw slightly better than my opponents in all 4 rounds.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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I know what you mean.. I rarely get to play locally and if I do i get hated out hard.. I think Bogles is a great large event deck and I rode it last year to my only day 2 ever at an SCG.. I won't be in Hartford.. a little out of my range (live across the border from detroit). Will for sure be at both Toronto s and Detroit and hopefully Richmond so i can play my beloved Enchantress in some legacy... I'm actually thinking Bogles will line up nicely for the team trios.. I haven't had luck with it in unified as Infect and Ad Naus always seem to be super present..
Cool. Yeah, I think it's a great choice for a GP. The only part I don't like about bringing it to a tournament with that many rounds is that it inevitably malfunctions for a round or two. That pretty much means you have to win every winnable match.. but I guess that's true of any deck to an extent. Good luck in Toronto and let me know how it goes. There was a small bogle group in Spain this weekend. Pretty stock lists. A few of them did pretty well.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=18360&d=313990&f=MO&show_pts=Y
Do you mean running a MB Spirit Link as opposed to a SB copy, because I noticed in your initial list you already have one in the side? I agree with your take on Spirit Mantle; Gryff's Boon is a perfectly acceptable aura to run in the deck, but I don't think of it as a replacement for Mantle. Same deal with Deliverance; it would be an instant SB add if it took care of enchantments as well, but instead I've ended up mixing and matching artifact/enchant hate and currently run a single Deliverance. The only suggestion I'd give based on your list is that you may want to re-consider your ratio of Spiritdancers/Totem Armor auras. Spiritdancer can be amazing if she's allowed to do her thing, but that requires her to dodge removal. Even though I only play two Spiritdancers nowadays, I still want to MB at least 7 Totem Armor effects; IMO, you may have a hard time protecting her while running 4 copies and 6 Totem Armor effects. Otherwise, have fun and good luck out there!
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Against Burn: Counter a Deflecting Palm and fight a creature, or put a counter on our lifelink creature and have it fight to gain a ton of life.
Against Control: Force them to sac Search for Azcanta or Blood Moon
Just two examples I thought would get the conversation going.
I think Dromoka's Command seems much better in theory than it actually plays out. The scenarios where it shines are pretty narrow. I tested it last year for a bit. I think you'll be happier with Path. Just cleaner and more efficient. I don't love path but it's easily the best white/green has to offer. I think killing something with Path that doesn't HAVE to be killed is a mistake a lot of people make when they first pick up the deck. Accelerating Merfolk or Humans or Jund on turn 2,3,4 is not where you want to be. I don't cast Path unless I absolutely have to.
Spirit Link is a great card but comes with the downside of not buffing the creature. I usually play one in the main and one in the board. It's def not a card you want to see a ton of.. but it can turn things massively in your favor against fast creature decks (affinity, merfolk, humans, goblins...). It's just almost completely dead against things like Tron, Strom, and Lantern.
Of course. I've piloted Bogles for years now and tested a wide range of different choices. However, at the very least Command is not dead in as many matchups as Path is. It also doesn't have the major downside of ramping your opponent, so it can get rid of an incidental creature while giving an incidental advantage. Think of the matchups where Path is dead or just a bad decision:
Control
Tron
Humans
Against control it gets rid of BM/Search, can remove Snap without making you feel like you just gave them a free Rampant Growth, and at the VERY least can grow your creature. Path is better against Tron, to be sure, as preventing them from getting Wurmcoil value is key. Against Humans, or any creature-based deck, getting lifegain from the fight and just growing the creature is doing far more than Path ever does. Don't forget the ORIGINAL reason why Bogles picked up Path. We did it so that we could fight against Splinter Twin. Since then, people just run them anyway. Honestly, NOT running removal mainboard at all could in fact yield a lot of success. Coming from someone who playtested Cartouche of Strength against Storm, Mardu Pyromancer, Affinity, and Tron and been COMPLETELY satisfied, I think that we shouldn't sleep on Dromoka's Command so quickly.
On the topic of Spirit Link, I find that for every case where it would be good, Cartouche of Solidarity is better. For every instance where it WOULD be useful, about half the time it's just a "win-more" card. Cartouche gives stats, is a strictly better Hyena Umbra in 70% of cases, gains life in the form of a blocker, and gives more damage in the form of your free attacker. Replacing Spirit Link with it also adds redundancy so that edict effects mean nothing. Finally, in the matchups where it shines, we already are highly favored to win. Drawing one in a scenario where it actually gives you a distinct advantage over Cartouche happens once in a blue moon. I believe that it works better in a world where we don't run mainboard Leylines, where we don't desperately need our auras to give stats.
D-Command was something that was tested a few years ago, but the meta has certainly changed a lot since then, so I'd be interested to see how it performs in the current environment.
In regards to the statement claiming Cartouche is strictly better than Hyena Umbra, I think that's a stretch at best. They both give +1/+1 and first strike and that's where the similarities end; each card serves a different function and there are plenty of scenarios where you'd want one over the other.
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I personally have not played this deck a TON, per se, but this is something I have more or less thrown together to get my brother back into MTG.
This being said, I just have a few (hopefully) quick questions as to deck options:
--I've been seeing a lot of Seal of Primordiums in sideboard lists, but I've also seen Disenchant and Deglamer/other 2-drop instants of the like. What are the particular benefits of running the instants over Seal? The only benefits I can think of for Seal is that you don't have to pop it straight up (saves mana for later turns and avoids discard) and pumps up Ethereal Armor, but I feel like Disenchant would be better here.
--When I've used this deck, I seem to rely very heavily on Dryad Arbor as a backup Bogle on a regular basis. Is this considered more correct, or should you generally wait for more creatures to draw in normal circumstances?
--I think I know the answer to this one, but is there any decent answer to discard that isn't Leyline of Sanctity? I have a playset, but I'm using them in my deck, which needs them equally as much (Ad Nauseam). The best I've come up with are Noxious Revival and Aegis of the Gods, but these are a stretch at best.
--Until I can acquire Horizon Canopy copies, how should I adjust a deck to compensate? Do I just cut a land or two and throw in some more enchantments?
--What spice have any of you thrown into your decks? My brother on more than one occasion has used his 1-of Mana Tithe and loved every second of it, and if I can find something else to throw in there, that would be awesome. Even just a singleton in the sideboard is good to know.
Thank you guys in advance, this seems like a nice homely community that really knows the deck well. Look forward to the responses!
WUBAd NauseamBUW
WBBW TokensBW
MUST. BUILD. ANTI-META BREWS.
1) I prefer Seal.. I don't like to hold up mana when I play to be responsive. I like to apply pressure and playing out a seal allows me to just keep deploying the threats from my hand.. If dissenters hit enchantment it would prob be my choice for the cycling..
2)I tend to only use my Dryad arbor to play around sac effects and as an emergency chump blocker.. if I'm loading up on the Arbor it's cause I had to from either a mull to oblivion or recover after a late game board wipe.. but I will admit I'm a little to various with it's usage..
3) no.. leylines or bust...
4) I wouldn't cut land... I would up the fetch count to provide more thinning prob.. the best way to compensate is keen sense.. but I'm not a huge fan.. Canopies are worth the eventual investment..
5) some interesting spice I've seen is Intervention Pact or Triclopean Sight.. I used to hose people by open the armory'ing for detainment spell back when spellskite was around.. that was fun...
I didn't say that Cartouche of Solidarity was strictly better, I said it was in 70% of cases. That's not incorrect, as in most matchups Hyena Umbra's totem armor doesn't offer anything. Totem armor does little to nothing against Affinity, Burn, Storm, Humans and Mardu Pyromancer, whereas Cartouche of Solidarity does. While there are some scenarios where you want the totem armor, hence why we run the card in the first place, there are many others where all it does is give +1/+1 and first strike.
I have an off question for you though. In the Pro Tour Rivals of Ixalan, neither Bogles list ran Suppression Field. That's always been a weird question of mine, as I've just used it to counter Lilianas or as additional copies of Stony Silence. I also understand that it's another old sideboard card that we used to fight Twin that just stuck after it was banned. What are the ramifications of running it in our current meta, and do you believe that it would be better to run something like Worship, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Ethersworn Canonist or additional sideoboard card copies?
-- Seal of Primordium is good if you're running into something that will have Blood Moon/Chalice as well as counterspells to back them up. You can cast Seal as soon as shield are down to keep Moon off the table. It's easier to slip in past counters. Personally I've been running Krosan Grip as there has been a pesky Nahiri Prison player in my meta who gets Chalice on one AND two faster than I can say "why do you always have Simian Spirit Gui--- *CHALICED*"
-- It sounds as though you need to get used to mulligans a bit more. That's usually what I see people leaning on when they don't mull aggressively enough. Could be wrong, it's just my impression
-- In a different deck I've enjoyed Nephalia Academy as a counter to discard...but that's useless in this deck. I wish there was another answer.
-- I used Brushland. I will stress that Canopy gives the deck SO much extra reach. Bogles with Canopy is 100%, without it you're running at 80% efficiency.
-- OOH, OOH, I CAN ANSWER THIS ONE! Let's see, I've run Cartouche of Strength before! It once got me out from under triple Deflecting Palm by lifelinking me to safety. It's a really great card, and I've used it to counter our Skred player's Stormbreath Dragons.
There's Open the Armory, which technically adds copies of Daybreak Coronet, Rancor, and Ethereal Armor while allowing you to run a jank toolbox sideboard with things like Wheel of Sun and Moon as silver bullet graveyard hate.
1. You're pretty much on point regarding Seal of Primordium, the reason to use it is to avoid having to keep mana up and that it boosts Ethereal Armor. If you'd rather run an instant I'd recommend Nature's Claim/Natural State over Disenchant and Deglamer.
2. Yes, the deck does rely heavily on Dryad Arbor and uses it as the prime aura target fairly frequently. Mulliganing heavily for a Bogle doesn't guarantee you'll get one, and there's also a risk that you get a Bogle but not enough lands and Auras to use it. In a discard heavy meta a single Bogle will often get discarded on the draw anyway, so it's often correct to keep a good 7 card hand without a Bogle on the draw.
3. Not really any other answers to discard no. Are you playing both decks at the same time? Otherwise it's fairly typical to be moving around cards depending on what you want to play in a particular tournament.
4. Just replace them with more Temple Gardens and green fetch lands or Brushlands. I wouldn't go below 20 lands, I'd recommend 21 with Canopies or 20 without.
5. I've used Mana Tithe in the past but it's at its best when there's a lot of instants and specifically blue decks with counterspells in the meta. I'm just not sure if this is the case now. If you do run it I would recommend maindeck rather than sideboard, as it's just way too weak in the sideboard compared to more specific answers. If you want sideboard "spice" some options include Guttoral Response and Gutshot, though again I'm not sure they're a great fit for the current meta.
Glad I got to see this in person.. I went 3-3 drop with virtually the same build.. had a blast though.. a lot of Bogles in the room.. atleast 10 decks day 1
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Dromoka’s Command. Chris Juliano said so!"
I CALLED IT! Dromoka's Command is good in Bogles!
Also: Jace unbanning seems to be fantastic news for us. By the time he lands we're well established on board, and he can't bounce a Bogle. If midrange becomes popular because of BBE, then we're also favored.
Round 1 vs. Dredge. I lose game 1 to a lot of bodies and no lifelink. I win game 2 due to Gaddock Teeg and him having to use Abrupt Decay on Rest in Peace. I then cast Kor Spiritdancer and Spider Umbra on the same turn. I draw some Auras and win. In the next game, I do Bogle into Rest in Peace and he couldn't draw a 2nd land after Faithless Looting and Neonate, so he scooped. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Affinity. I lose a game 1 to Cranial Plating. I win a game 2 to a turn 2 Stony Silence. I win game 3 by Seal of Primordium on a Cranial Plating. He goes all-in on Arcbound Ravager after he top decked Engineered Explosives to wipe my board. A 10/10 Ravager attacks to kill my Bogle, but I rebuild with double Kor Spiritdancer and after I draw Spirit Mantle into Path to Exile, I win pretty easily. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Little Kid Bant. I got him in the first game with just enough pressure and Spirit Mantle to win. In the next game, I do Bogle into double Aura, but can't draw much after that. He gets enough bodies to swing through and a Noble Hierarch with 2 counters on it from Gavony Township finishes me off since I can't block 1 creature and am at 2 life. The final game is similar and he gets a Sigarda on turn 4, but I top deck Ethereal Armor. I forget to attack because I don't realize it's lethal (as it's my first Aura drawn in my last 5 draws). But he attacks with the Sigarda and it dies. He forgot that I had a Rest in Peace in play, which made my guy bigger, so lethal is easy next turn. Big punt by me not noticing that I top decked the card which gave exactly 9 lethal damage, but I still got there because it was too strong. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Humans. Paired down to a 2-1. I draw 2 Kor Spiritdancers and 2 Spirit Mantle in the first game. I'm able to put Gryff's Boon on 1 of them and he doesn't draw more than 1 Mantis Rider too late. I stabilize at 1 life and then wait until my Spiritdancer is lethal. In the next game, he gets some pressure, but I draw a 3rd land on turn 5 to cast Unflinching Courage on my double Ethereal Armored dude. That's game. 2-0.
This was my first 4-0 at this LGS in at least 2 months, so it felt really good. I had some awkward draws, but managed to draw slightly better than my opponents in all 4 rounds.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)