If the Cartouche of Strength would cost 2 mana instead of 3 I would slam dunk them into my Deck. As is, it's really hard. I mean it can be: "Cast this, fight your Spellskite to death, attack with trample." But it could also be worse. Maybe as a one-of?
Hey, guys, I think with Cartouche of Solidarity we can start to re-evaluate our 1-drop auras. Has anyone been overly impressed with Spider Umbra? I've found them to be phenomenal vs Affinity, but I feel against the rest of the field a free body (plus First Strike in case we don't have Eth or Hyena) is better than Totem Armor.
With that in mind, I'm planning on doing some testing post-AMK with the following list:
Previously, I had been running 4 Spiders main, and 4 Glistener Elf side. After a few events where the Elves just felt like a gamble against opponents boarding out removal, I decided the main purpose of the Elves (shortening the clock against uninteractive combo) just wasn't worth taking up a quarter of the board. In their place, I'm moving back to 2x Gaddock Teeg, which I feel is a house against non-Eldrazi Tron, as well as having the option for a third Cartouche, and a second Spirit Link, which I always want to have access to against Burn or Dredge, but until now haven't been able to find the room for.
Anyone else planning on playing around with the Cartouche of Solidarity? I'm interested in blue splashes getting a cantripping Gryff's Boon, but ultimately I feel our 2 mana auras just need to do more than evasion. I'd be interested in seeing someone find a spot for the Cartouche of Strength, but I feel 3 is just way too slow for the deck (I don't even run Unflinching Courage). If anything, like some have mentioned already, Cartouche of Strength feels like a nice sideboard card against Spellskite, but again, 3 mana is huge in this deck.
Hi there, I haven't kept in touch with the deck for quite a while but I think that as a one-of Cartouche of Strenght could be ok, especially with an Open the Armory in the deck. Back when OtA was new people tried Gelid Shackles, what are your opinions on the card? Better than Cartouche as a removal? Is Gelid Shackles an alternative to Path to Exile?
I'm a believer that the speed of the deck is one of its strongest attributes (lack of interactivity being the other), and Cartouche of Strength basically is a worse Rancor (one of our best cards) that costs more for the option of doubling as removal. If we're doing things right, we don't care what creatures the opponent has. If you're running a list with more than 1 Open the Armory, I might consider a miser's Cartouche of Strength simply to be tutored up, but the issue is that most of the time you won't have the mana to tutor and play the Cartouche in the same turn, and if you're not in a position to tutor up an Ethereal Armor and just win that turn, you're probably in a bad spot.
I'm only running one OtA, however, so I doubt I'll be testing Cartouche of Strength at all.
I definitely don't think we'll be seeing Gelid Shackles in many lists any time soon. Soft-removal is something control decks use against pesky permanents. We deal with permanents by winning before they impact us. One of the most polarizing aspects of Path is that it forces us to leave up a mana, sometimes meaning we need to forgo playing another aura, which usually equates to 2-4 extra power. Granted, against the decks we absolutely need answers to, e.g. Death's Shadow, it's totally worth it to have a maindeck answer to what otherwise becomes a viable racing card (minus lifegain on our side). For Gelid Shackles to deal with attackers, moreover, it requires snow mana, which means essentially you're forcing yourself into playing snow-lands and fetching them instead of Temple Gardens, hindering your color fixing, as well as forcing yourself to leave that Path to Exile mana up each and every turn just to make sure that creature doesn't attack. If you had Pathed it in the first place, that would have saved you multiple mana, which is several power worth of auras if you have them in hand.
Feel free to try out Shackles if you want, I just don't think it's worth it.
Heck, I didn't see the Spellskite proof. I thought of the cartouche as a sideboard option, but yes, I guess, you could play it mainboard.
I didn't realize it at first glance either. I'm hoping they do a full cycle of these auras, at least one per color; seems like there's definitely some potential there if any 'cartouche' aura has the caveat of the target being a creature you control.
Edit: The rest of the cartouche auras look pretty underwhelming. The green one would be ok if it didn't have a 3 cmc.
Yup. Looks like we got skunked. I agree with you. The green one is decent until you look at the cost. You would need an almost perfect scenario to get value off the 3 cmc price tag. I'll take Unflinching Courage all day long if I'm going to jam an aura at 3 mana. Oh well. Kind of strange they made the first cartouche so much better and more efficient than the rest. I just happy we got something. I really think the cartouche of strength is going to be effective.
Did you mean to say the Cartouche of Solidarity? I'm definitely going to test out two of them and see how they perform. I agree in regards to the design for each cartouche; the second one that I saw spoiled was the red which also had a cmc of 1, so I got my hopes up for the others. However, the cartouche of knowledge isn't too bad for those who are still experimenting with blue in their lists; it's more/less a Gryff's Boon that costs 1 more and cantrips.
Yeah, yeah. My bad. I meant Solidarity. I don't think Cartouche of strength is playable.
Hey, guys, I think with Cartouche of Solidarity we can start to re-evaluate our 1-drop auras. Has anyone been overly impressed with Spider Umbra? I've found them to be phenomenal vs Affinity, but I feel against the rest of the field a free body (plus First Strike in case we don't have Eth or Hyena) is better than Totem Armor.
With that in mind, I'm planning on doing some testing post-AMK with the following list:
Previously, I had been running 4 Spiders main, and 4 Glistener Elf side. After a few events where the Elves just felt like a gamble against opponents boarding out removal, I decided the main purpose of the Elves (shortening the clock against uninteractive combo) just wasn't worth taking up a quarter of the board. In their place, I'm moving back to 2x Gaddock Teeg, which I feel is a house against non-Eldrazi Tron, as well as having the option for a third Cartouche, and a second Spirit Link, which I always want to have access to against Burn or Dredge, but until now haven't been able to find the room for.
Anyone else planning on playing around with the Cartouche of Solidarity? I'm interested in blue splashes getting a cantripping Gryff's Boon, but ultimately I feel our 2 mana auras just need to do more than evasion. I'd be interested in seeing someone find a spot for the Cartouche of Strength, but I feel 3 is just way too slow for the deck (I don't even run Unflinching Courage). If anything, like some have mentioned already, Cartouche of Strength feels like a nice sideboard card against Spellskite, but again, 3 mana is huge in this deck.
Why 4 Hyena Umbra and not Spider umbra ? I don't think you meant that split. Too may first strike cards since you're adding cartouche.
Otherwise, I'm going to play a similar ratio of auras.
Agreed. I'm reluctant to cut any umbra as it is, but if I were to trim down then I'd drop a Hyena over the Spider 9 times out of 10 for that exact reason; a standard list plus a single cartouche would bring the number of first-strike auras to 13 (x4 Hyena, x4 Coronet, x4 Ethereal, & x1 cartouche). Even if you take coronet out of the equation considering it's usually our win-con, that's still 9 cards granting first-strike. In addition to totem armor being a powerful yet underrated effect, Spider Umbra's ability to grant our Bogle Reach is more impactful than having a redundant amount of first-strike auras, imo.
My thought process was that more often the First Strike will be a more relevant ability than Reach, so it makes sense to overload on it. I could understand swapping the ratio, though. Definitely worth testing.
I almost never needed the reach ability. If we would play more auras with vigilance in the deck, I would agree, but as is, first strike is more relevant. In fact, the spider umbras are always the first thing I take out while boarding.
I guess. I'd still go at least 3-3 even with your logic. Also I seriously doubt you "always" side them out first. Vs delver? Vs esper board wipes? Vs stormbreath ponza? Doubt it.
I almost never needed the reach ability. If we would play more auras with vigilance in the deck, I would agree, but as is, first strike is more relevant. In fact, the spider umbras are always the first thing I take out while boarding.
Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. I look at it from the angle where Reach may not be relevant in many games, but it's worth having around for the games where it's an all star. Even you replaced Reach with some other average/niche ability (e.g. Forestwalk), I'd probably still favor it because it's not First-Strike. I believe First-Strike is hands down the better ability, but I suppose I just prefer to have diversity instead of redundancy.
Had a great laugh playing Bogles at last FNM and went 4-0. I have been playing Bogles for a year but have recently been playing dredge. I knew the local meta was going to be full of burn, grixis death's shadow and BW token strategies and people would be expecting me to bring dredge so I reverted to bogles forte surprise factor.
Congrats on the finish; your report is a testament to how the deck can wreak havoc on an unsuspecting field. I haven't had the time to get out to FNM much lately, but when I do I've been playing Cheeri0s or Elves so I can shake the stigma of "Bogles guy" and hopefully find success similar to yours when I end up going back to Bogles.
I guess. I'd still go at least 3-3 even with your logic. Also I seriously doubt you "always" side them out first. Vs delver? Vs esper board wipes? Vs stormbreath ponza? Doubt it.
You are right. I don't side them out against Delver, but the last time I saw that deck in my area was 2 years ago, the other two I never ever saw. Our Meta consists mostly of Burn, Dredge and Combo-Decks.
This is a bit off-topic and I apologize. However, I've had this idea kicking around in my head and I'd like to know what you guys think.
If this were ever made, I feel like it would drastically improve the consistency of our deck. Edict effects would be less harmful, and drawing into a Bogle hurts a lot less. The card would also allow us to give our Kor Spiritdancer hexproof without having to change the core of the deck to do so!
This is a bit off-topic and I apologize. However, I've had this idea kicking around in my head and I'd like to know what you guys think.
If this were ever made, I feel like it would drastically improve the consistency of our deck. Edict effects would be less harmful, and drawing into a Bogle hurts a lot less. The card would also allow us to give our Kor Spiritdancer hexproof without having to change the core of the deck to do so!
Thoughts?
If that were a real card, I'd be all about it. Looks like the love child that would come from Scout and Alpha Authority / Aspect of Mongoose
If that were a real card, I'd be all about it. Looks like the love child that would come from Scout and Alpha Authority / Aspect of Mongoose
I think that I'm going to play around with it as a sub for Slippery Bogle among my friends. I guess that I'm just poking around to see why it hasn't been performing as well as it has lately both in my meta, and the competitive scene as a whole. I feel like it's received buff after buff (compare Reid Duke's list to what we run now), but it still under-performs.
If that were a real card, I'd be all about it. Looks like the love child that would come from Scout and Alpha Authority / Aspect of Mongoose
I think that I'm going to play around with it as a sub for Slippery Bogle among my friends. I guess that I'm just poking around to see why it hasn't been performing as well as it has lately both in my meta, and the competitive scene as a whole. I feel like it's received buff after buff (compare Reid Duke's list to what we run now), but it still under-performs.
Going back to that Reid Duke list, the deck has always been one that relies on the "surprise factor". We're very susceptible to hate, so if you've been playing it as your go-to deck, I'm sure there are some players in your meta who've caught on. When I was getting back into the game, I pretty much ran Bogles exclusively and it wasn't long until Back to Nature started popping up every other game. That led me to build different Modern decks and bring back Bogles whenever it's not expected or when it's the right meta call.
Also, I'd be interested to see what deck list you're running. Mostly because the majority of lists that pop up are incredibly similar to Reid's 2013 list, sideboard not withstanding. I feel like we've actually gotten very little throughout that duration as far as buffs go; Ledgewalker sees play, but that was already around. Gryff's Boon sees the occasional 1 or 2 of. Open the armory seems to be 50/50 with half of players' lists having zero and those who do play it, usually have no more than 1 or 2. Etc.
After playing this deck for so long, I should know better by now, but anybody interested in Gift of Paradise? Basically reminds me of a utopia sprawl that costs 3cmc to net you 3 life, tap enchant land for two mana of any color, and unlike, sprawl, it can hang with blood moon. I'm not too sure when I'd have the time to brew with it, but it could possibly be a missing link for those players who are trying to play G/W/R or G/W/U. I can be tutored for by OtA (again, a total 5cmc to cast both on same turn isn't ideal), but it struck me as something that's worth testing out in 3 color+ decks.
I now run 2 MB Leyline and 2 SB, due to the meta call and I really do like it. I just moved 1 Path to the SB, and took out my Gryff's Boon (was never really a fan of it).
I killed someone by activating gryff's boon post attacks on one of my 2x Kor Spiritdancer through an ensnaring bridge the other day so it definitely has it's uses... I also run 2MB Leyline atm. Has worked a treat!
Gryff's Boon can only be activated as a sorcery, so that was a Game Rule Violation.
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Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge
With that in mind, I'm planning on doing some testing post-AMK with the following list:
4x Gladecover Scout
2x Silhana Ledgewalker
2x Kor Spiritdancer
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Hyena Umbra
4x Rancor
2x Cartouche of Solidarity
2x Gryff's Boon
2x Spider Umbra
1x Spirit Link
4x Daybreak Coronet
1x Spirit Mantle
1x Open the Armory
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
1x Plains
3x Temple Garden
4x Horizon Canopy
4x Razorverge Thicket
4x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Gaddock Teeg
1x Spirit Link
1x Cartouche of Solidarity
4x Leyline of Sanctity
3x Seal of Primordium
2x Stony Silence
2x Suppression Field
Previously, I had been running 4 Spiders main, and 4 Glistener Elf side. After a few events where the Elves just felt like a gamble against opponents boarding out removal, I decided the main purpose of the Elves (shortening the clock against uninteractive combo) just wasn't worth taking up a quarter of the board. In their place, I'm moving back to 2x Gaddock Teeg, which I feel is a house against non-Eldrazi Tron, as well as having the option for a third Cartouche, and a second Spirit Link, which I always want to have access to against Burn or Dredge, but until now haven't been able to find the room for.
Anyone else planning on playing around with the Cartouche of Solidarity? I'm interested in blue splashes getting a cantripping Gryff's Boon, but ultimately I feel our 2 mana auras just need to do more than evasion. I'd be interested in seeing someone find a spot for the Cartouche of Strength, but I feel 3 is just way too slow for the deck (I don't even run Unflinching Courage). If anything, like some have mentioned already, Cartouche of Strength feels like a nice sideboard card against Spellskite, but again, 3 mana is huge in this deck.
I'm only running one OtA, however, so I doubt I'll be testing Cartouche of Strength at all.
I definitely don't think we'll be seeing Gelid Shackles in many lists any time soon. Soft-removal is something control decks use against pesky permanents. We deal with permanents by winning before they impact us. One of the most polarizing aspects of Path is that it forces us to leave up a mana, sometimes meaning we need to forgo playing another aura, which usually equates to 2-4 extra power. Granted, against the decks we absolutely need answers to, e.g. Death's Shadow, it's totally worth it to have a maindeck answer to what otherwise becomes a viable racing card (minus lifegain on our side). For Gelid Shackles to deal with attackers, moreover, it requires snow mana, which means essentially you're forcing yourself into playing snow-lands and fetching them instead of Temple Gardens, hindering your color fixing, as well as forcing yourself to leave that Path to Exile mana up each and every turn just to make sure that creature doesn't attack. If you had Pathed it in the first place, that would have saved you multiple mana, which is several power worth of auras if you have them in hand.
Feel free to try out Shackles if you want, I just don't think it's worth it.
Yeah, yeah. My bad. I meant Solidarity. I don't think Cartouche of strength is playable.
Otherwise, I'm going to play a similar ratio of auras.
Agreed. I'm reluctant to cut any umbra as it is, but if I were to trim down then I'd drop a Hyena over the Spider 9 times out of 10 for that exact reason; a standard list plus a single cartouche would bring the number of first-strike auras to 13 (x4 Hyena, x4 Coronet, x4 Ethereal, & x1 cartouche). Even if you take coronet out of the equation considering it's usually our win-con, that's still 9 cards granting first-strike. In addition to totem armor being a powerful yet underrated effect, Spider Umbra's ability to grant our Bogle Reach is more impactful than having a redundant amount of first-strike auras, imo.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge
Congrats on the finish; your report is a testament to how the deck can wreak havoc on an unsuspecting field. I haven't had the time to get out to FNM much lately, but when I do I've been playing Cheeri0s or Elves so I can shake the stigma of "Bogles guy" and hopefully find success similar to yours when I end up going back to Bogles.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
You are right. I don't side them out against Delver, but the last time I saw that deck in my area was 2 years ago, the other two I never ever saw. Our Meta consists mostly of Burn, Dredge and Combo-Decks.
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge
If this were ever made, I feel like it would drastically improve the consistency of our deck. Edict effects would be less harmful, and drawing into a Bogle hurts a lot less. The card would also allow us to give our Kor Spiritdancer hexproof without having to change the core of the deck to do so!
Thoughts?
If that were a real card, I'd be all about it. Looks like the love child that would come from Scout and Alpha Authority / Aspect of Mongoose
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I think that I'm going to play around with it as a sub for Slippery Bogle among my friends. I guess that I'm just poking around to see why it hasn't been performing as well as it has lately both in my meta, and the competitive scene as a whole. I feel like it's received buff after buff (compare Reid Duke's list to what we run now), but it still under-performs.
Going back to that Reid Duke list, the deck has always been one that relies on the "surprise factor". We're very susceptible to hate, so if you've been playing it as your go-to deck, I'm sure there are some players in your meta who've caught on. When I was getting back into the game, I pretty much ran Bogles exclusively and it wasn't long until Back to Nature started popping up every other game. That led me to build different Modern decks and bring back Bogles whenever it's not expected or when it's the right meta call.
Also, I'd be interested to see what deck list you're running. Mostly because the majority of lists that pop up are incredibly similar to Reid's 2013 list, sideboard not withstanding. I feel like we've actually gotten very little throughout that duration as far as buffs go; Ledgewalker sees play, but that was already around. Gryff's Boon sees the occasional 1 or 2 of. Open the armory seems to be 50/50 with half of players' lists having zero and those who do play it, usually have no more than 1 or 2. Etc.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
MODERN – LANTERN (aka Fateseal or Barbershop)
Primer – Subreddit – Facebook – Decklist – Gameplay
Thnkr's Content: Gameplay – Datasheet
Each eye sees a different possibility for tomorrow.
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