any tips for control matchups if running a BTL list?
I feel that I don't get to ramp Extremely fast; therefore, my opponents always have hand full of counters when I try to resolve a scapeshift.
not sure what to do here....
I've got a sideboard plan that includes Ranger of Eos and x2 Dragonmaster Outcast. BTL for the ranger, or naturally draw one of the three cards. After a ranger and reveal you can usually put them down next turn with counter backup, and this also means the counter is there to protect them and they need two removals if you can land both or you're making dragons, and who doesn't like dragons
Interesting. I run the black variant of BtL Scapeshift and this is the first thing I've seen to make me question that and switch to white. What exactly does your list look like?
The guy I was talking to said I had "revolutionized" Scapeshift, and while I'm not sure that's true, the list is incredibly solid. I figured it'd be a waste not to share it.
Your listt seems awesome! Have you tested more with it? Can you tell us how it performs against some more archetypes?
Great job on that list
Thanks!
I haven't done a whole lot of testing with that version of Scapeshift, as I'm a devout Esper Control player -- that's actually where I got the idea to play Think Twices. I've been preparing for an upcoming local SCGOpen, so I've been putting 90% of my time into Esper. Thus, I unfortunately don't have a whole lot to say about matchups. I know for sure that I would play it over the ramp version, though. Maybe it's just a playstyle preference?
However, I can say this:
- In one of the earlier drafts of the deck, I had a sideboard Thragtusk. In my brief testing, I found Thrag to be very good -- especially against BGx. I'd put it back in over the Relic of Progenitus in the side.
- I've been considering testing out a pair of Gifts Ungiven and a Noxious Revival in there over a Scapeshift and the 2 Anticipates. Don't know yet how it'd work out, but it's definitely worth thinking about -- especially since I already run a split of Anger/Firespout for mana reasons.
Anyways, I can pick up the list as a priority if you'd like further input.
I've got a sideboard plan that includes Ranger of Eos and x2 Dragonmaster Outcast. BTL for the ranger, or naturally draw one of the three cards. After a ranger and reveal you can usually put them down next turn with counter backup, and this also means the counter is there to protect them and they need two removals if you can land both or you're making dragons, and who doesn't like dragons
Interesting. I run the black variant of BtL Scapeshift and this is the first thing I've seen to make me question that and switch to white. What exactly does your list look like?
The deck is from Heibing, was watching him stream and picked it up. Swap an Ojutai's Command for another Izzet Charm and that's the list, I also swapped out the Glen Elendra Archmage for a Supreme Verdict, more because I could not find one before some events I've been going to. The Supreme verdict is rough to cast but is doable. The black comes in for the plains if you're needing to go for Slaughter Games. http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/356496#online
How is Dragonmaster Outcast working for everyone? I currently run Obsinate Baloths and a Surrak Dragonclaw in my sideboard. I just feel like although it gives a lot of value, isn't it hard to protect being a 1/1?
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Modern GU Infect | x Affinity | RWG Naya Burn | W Death and Taxes | U Merfolk | BURG BTL Scapeshift | WUUW Titan | R Goblins | BURGW Suicide Zoo
How is Dragonmaster Outcast working for everyone? I currently run Obsinate Baloths and a Surrak Dragonclaw in my sideboard. I just feel like although it gives a lot of value, isn't it hard to protect being a 1/1?
Game 2 is usually an 'awkward' blowout. I seem and here from my opponent as we either complete the game or go to game 3 depending on the 1st game results that they 'took all their removal out' or had so little that when I land 1 - 2 of them they're praying for their removal and not their main game plan. Being thoughtseized and my opponent seeing Dragonmaster and Slaughter Games was torn between the two (I went super greedy boarding in white and black, which I would not recommend) Usually with a counter or two you'll at least have a 5/5 flier by the next turn. If both resolve and both exist, it is usually lights out. The fliers are great and get around sometimes the ground armies that our baloth cannot get around. That being said, there are a few match ups that I wish I had a 2nd baloth or something else to 'gain life' in which case I've considered Timely Reinforcements as well, attempting to stay in the more 'white' realm of things.
My alternate wincon is Nissa, Vastwood Seer/Nissa, Sage Animist. She can be fetched with BtL, flips the same turn she lands, can help stabilize the board with a 4/4 fatty, and tick up for amazing card advantage and an eventual blowout turn.
I prefer her to Dragonmaster Outcast because she doesn't need a whole turn to become effective, only takes up a single slot in the sideboard, and can be useful in long, grindy match-ups where Scapeshift is still available.
Hi, just passing by with a question. Now that my deck is dead (bloom) I had seen a RG scapeshift deck a few months back. Do that deck has his own tread or it is discused here? I like combodecks and I like titans so...that will be the way to go.
I wanna share a FNM report of mine.
I'm using Jeff's RUG/b BTL list with a twist of adding "mom and dad" in my SB.
I went 4-0 (2:1, 2:0, 2:1, 2:0) against Jund, B/U discard, UW control, UR twin.
1st round, Jund (2:1)
1st game drew no answer and die to Liliana's ultimate.
2nd game I ramp up to 8 lands and at lethal turn cryptic commend bounce draw in BTL and scapeshift combo out.
3rd game used board in Baloth to tempo out and then later scapeshift combo win.
2nd round, B/U discard (2:0)
weird deck. first game i had no idea what he is playing at the beginning but his discard spell kinda limited himself too....so I get to play 7 lands and combo win.
2nd game I got surgical extraction my scapeshift. But since I have boarded in 4 Baloth, I just pressured him with creatures and won.
3rd round, U/W control (2:1)
1st game he was mana screwed so I tempo and ramped kinda smoothly. scapeshift at 8 lands.
2nd game back and forth counter battles. Lost to double restoration angels and a geist.
3rd game long ass game. SB in lots of creatures to stable and pressure the board. Won a snapcaster flashback counter battle and drew 2 scapeshifts for backup combo.
4th round, UR twin (2:0)
1st game is all about ramp and BTL combo timing. I enjoy some of the tempo play in respond to his fetches and got to kill some of his creatures with izzet charms.
2nd game I SB in 3 Baloth and a "mom and dad" (my opponents laughed hard when I call the card mom and dad XD). with using creatures pressuring him, I cot to waste some of his counters and won a counter battle of he casting twin. Got to combo out at the next turn
To sum up, I like this list A LOT! I also enjoy boarding in creatures in control matchups (and SB out most of the BTL). Response to fetches is a good tempo play since he will be lack of one land.
If Scapeshift becomes popular, won't RG Tron just dedicate 3 or 4 Slaughter Games in the SB? Why wouldn't they, they just freed up 8 to 9 pieces from Twin
If Scapeshift becomes popular, won't RG Tron just dedicate 3 or 4 Slaughter Games in the SB? Why wouldn't they, they just freed up 8 to 9 pieces from Twin
They will.
IMO, Scapeshift is one of the decks, which benefit from the ban the most. Since we (I have played Shift back in the days and started playing it again a couple of months ago) can run MD sweeper vs all those aggro decks, which will pop up, only the dedicated Combo decks are a problem (at least, what my experience showed).
Heck, it might even turn out, that Scapeshift can become the "new" policing deck in Modern (which I would love).
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Now it looks like there's endless tron and eldrazi decks to prey on.
So lately I was trying some Twin variants, now I guess I can try Scapeshift again ...I think it might be tier 1 again, but I kind of fear the eldrazi deck. How is that matchup guys? I can't really imagine we would prey on a deck with a bilion of discard and "when you cast" effects that can't be countered
I honestly think that playing Think Twice in the main is the first step, because there are so many discard spells and Lilis going around. Mainboard Anger/Firespout or Electrolyze deals with Blight Herder (somewhat), but as for OSower, I guess we just ignore the ability and counter the creature half.
My thoughts are to run Mana Leak, counter the giant bodies, and pick off whatever's left over.
Now it looks like there's endless tron and eldrazi decks to prey on.
So lately I was trying some Twin variants, now I guess I can try Scapeshift again ...I think it might be tier 1 again, but I kind of fear the eldrazi deck. How is that matchup guys? I can't really imagine we would prey on a deck with a bilion of discard and "when you cast" effects that can't be countered
I honestly think that playing Think Twice in the main is the first step, because there are so many discard spells and Lilis going around. Mainboard Anger/Firespout or Electrolyze deals with Blight Herder (somewhat), but as for OSower, I guess we just ignore the ability and counter the creature half.
My thoughts are to run Mana Leak, counter the giant bodies, and pick off whatever's left over.
I think our biggest problems against the Eldrazi deck are Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Oblivion Sower. Game One you just have to hope they don't have it/ hope they don't hit your lands as it feels like you can ignore everything else that they do. For sideboard games, I've found that Leyline of Sanctity does a really good job at crippling them as their creatures are slow enough that they don't pose much of a threat. Black has less options but I always bring in slaughter games and typically name Oblivion Sower and that usually buys me enough time to find Scapeshift for the win.
I may be crazy but I'm testing 1-2 Voidslimes maindeck. At worst it's a Cancel but I really like the clutchness of being able to counter Oblivion Sower and Ulamog's triggers. Additionally, being able to counter Ghost Quarters and Tectonic Edges will be nice as we will probably be seeing an uptick in land destruction effects.
Mistys are dominant in the deck because we don't necessarily want all of our mountains out before we play scapeshift, mostly having access to green and blue mana early game for stuff like search for tomorrow or the 3 blue it takes for cryptic command. Is it necessary probably not and you could sub it for something like scalding tarn but it does set up better because it gives us the mana we need earlier.
so after the twin ban im looking for a new deck. i own pretty much all cards for scapeshift but i do not have misty rainforest - So how important are mistys for the deck, can you substitute them with other fetches and if yes which?
Same . I used to play shift and have the cards but dumped my Mistys a while ago. Going to use Tarns and Foothills instead.
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I feel that I don't get to ramp Extremely fast; therefore, my opponents always have hand full of counters when I try to resolve a scapeshift.
not sure what to do here....
Interesting. I run the black variant of BtL Scapeshift and this is the first thing I've seen to make me question that and switch to white. What exactly does your list look like?
Thanks!
I haven't done a whole lot of testing with that version of Scapeshift, as I'm a devout Esper Control player -- that's actually where I got the idea to play Think Twices. I've been preparing for an upcoming local SCGOpen, so I've been putting 90% of my time into Esper. Thus, I unfortunately don't have a whole lot to say about matchups. I know for sure that I would play it over the ramp version, though. Maybe it's just a playstyle preference?
However, I can say this:
- In one of the earlier drafts of the deck, I had a sideboard Thragtusk. In my brief testing, I found Thrag to be very good -- especially against BGx. I'd put it back in over the Relic of Progenitus in the side.
- I've been considering testing out a pair of Gifts Ungiven and a Noxious Revival in there over a Scapeshift and the 2 Anticipates. Don't know yet how it'd work out, but it's definitely worth thinking about -- especially since I already run a split of Anger/Firespout for mana reasons.
Anyways, I can pick up the list as a priority if you'd like further input.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
The deck is from Heibing, was watching him stream and picked it up. Swap an Ojutai's Command for another Izzet Charm and that's the list, I also swapped out the Glen Elendra Archmage for a Supreme Verdict, more because I could not find one before some events I've been going to. The Supreme verdict is rough to cast but is doable. The black comes in for the plains if you're needing to go for Slaughter Games.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/356496#online
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (30)
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Repeal
1 Farseek
4 Izzet Charm
4 Remand
1 Anger of the Gods
4 Search for Tomorrow
4 Cryptic Command
1 Hunting Wilds
3 Scapeshift
3 Bring to Light
1 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Grove
2 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Dispel
2 Dragonmaster Outcast
2 Swan Song
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Slaughter Games
1 Swamp
GU Infect | x Affinity | RWG Naya Burn | W Death and Taxes | U Merfolk | BURG BTL Scapeshift | WUUW Titan | R Goblins | BURGW Suicide Zoo
Game 2 is usually an 'awkward' blowout. I seem and here from my opponent as we either complete the game or go to game 3 depending on the 1st game results that they 'took all their removal out' or had so little that when I land 1 - 2 of them they're praying for their removal and not their main game plan. Being thoughtseized and my opponent seeing Dragonmaster and Slaughter Games was torn between the two (I went super greedy boarding in white and black, which I would not recommend) Usually with a counter or two you'll at least have a 5/5 flier by the next turn. If both resolve and both exist, it is usually lights out. The fliers are great and get around sometimes the ground armies that our baloth cannot get around. That being said, there are a few match ups that I wish I had a 2nd baloth or something else to 'gain life' in which case I've considered Timely Reinforcements as well, attempting to stay in the more 'white' realm of things.
GU Infect | x Affinity | RWG Naya Burn | W Death and Taxes | U Merfolk | BURG BTL Scapeshift | WUUW Titan | R Goblins | BURGW Suicide Zoo
I prefer her to Dragonmaster Outcast because she doesn't need a whole turn to become effective, only takes up a single slot in the sideboard, and can be useful in long, grindy match-ups where Scapeshift is still available.
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Twin was always the boogeyman for scapeshift, when I played it competitively. Now it looks like there's endless tron and eldrazi decks to prey on.
We can expect to see a rise of zoo, bogles, infect and affinity though, no mistake there. Those are the decks that beat tron and friends.
Should be an interesting metagame!
I'm using Jeff's RUG/b BTL list with a twist of adding "mom and dad" in my SB.
I went 4-0 (2:1, 2:0, 2:1, 2:0) against Jund, B/U discard, UW control, UR twin.
1st round, Jund (2:1)
1st game drew no answer and die to Liliana's ultimate.
2nd game I ramp up to 8 lands and at lethal turn cryptic commend bounce draw in BTL and scapeshift combo out.
3rd game used board in Baloth to tempo out and then later scapeshift combo win.
2nd round, B/U discard (2:0)
weird deck. first game i had no idea what he is playing at the beginning but his discard spell kinda limited himself too....so I get to play 7 lands and combo win.
2nd game I got surgical extraction my scapeshift. But since I have boarded in 4 Baloth, I just pressured him with creatures and won.
3rd round, U/W control (2:1)
1st game he was mana screwed so I tempo and ramped kinda smoothly. scapeshift at 8 lands.
2nd game back and forth counter battles. Lost to double restoration angels and a geist.
3rd game long ass game. SB in lots of creatures to stable and pressure the board. Won a snapcaster flashback counter battle and drew 2 scapeshifts for backup combo.
4th round, UR twin (2:0)
1st game is all about ramp and BTL combo timing. I enjoy some of the tempo play in respond to his fetches and got to kill some of his creatures with izzet charms.
2nd game I SB in 3 Baloth and a "mom and dad" (my opponents laughed hard when I call the card mom and dad XD). with using creatures pressuring him, I cot to waste some of his counters and won a counter battle of he casting twin. Got to combo out at the next turn
To sum up, I like this list A LOT! I also enjoy boarding in creatures in control matchups (and SB out most of the BTL). Response to fetches is a good tempo play since he will be lack of one land.
They will.
IMO, Scapeshift is one of the decks, which benefit from the ban the most. Since we (I have played Shift back in the days and started playing it again a couple of months ago) can run MD sweeper vs all those aggro decks, which will pop up, only the dedicated Combo decks are a problem (at least, what my experience showed).
Heck, it might even turn out, that Scapeshift can become the "new" policing deck in Modern (which I would love).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I honestly think that playing Think Twice in the main is the first step, because there are so many discard spells and Lilis going around. Mainboard Anger/Firespout or Electrolyze deals with Blight Herder (somewhat), but as for OSower, I guess we just ignore the ability and counter the creature half.
My thoughts are to run Mana Leak, counter the giant bodies, and pick off whatever's left over.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I think our biggest problems against the Eldrazi deck are Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Oblivion Sower. Game One you just have to hope they don't have it/ hope they don't hit your lands as it feels like you can ignore everything else that they do. For sideboard games, I've found that Leyline of Sanctity does a really good job at crippling them as their creatures are slow enough that they don't pose much of a threat. Black has less options but I always bring in slaughter games and typically name Oblivion Sower and that usually buys me enough time to find Scapeshift for the win.
I may be crazy but I'm testing 1-2 Voidslimes maindeck. At worst it's a Cancel but I really like the clutchness of being able to counter Oblivion Sower and Ulamog's triggers. Additionally, being able to counter Ghost Quarters and Tectonic Edges will be nice as we will probably be seeing an uptick in land destruction effects.
Bring to Light Scapeshift RUGB
Same . I used to play shift and have the cards but dumped my Mistys a while ago. Going to use Tarns and Foothills instead.