After not having been able to make it to my local LGS on a regular basis for some time (back when infect was a big deal), I have built my paper GW Tron deck on MTGO. However I'm not up on new takes on the deck or what the meta game looks like at the moment. I know about grixis death's shadow and E Tron (and i keep losing to storm) but that's about it. My sideboard is undoubtedly outdated and I was wondering if people would mind suggesting upgrades to the main and sideboard. Back in the day I would have tried it all myself and tested different things but unfortunately family life doesn't allow for that kind of thing.
On first glimpse i would make these changes:
-4 Temple Garden; +3 Brushland
They are painless and if you need an untapped white/green source later in the game you can always search up the Brushland.
-1 or 2 Relics
They are not as good as they used to. A 1-of relic MD can prove useful though as it is never dead. I would suggest running the 4th path or 3rd Wurmcoil for it.
SB:
-Spatial Contortion
You can better run a Condemn or other removal if you feel like you need it but Contortion does not do much in the meta.
-2 Stony Silence. Period.
Stony Silence is a card that you don't want to play. You board them in and potentially kill 17 (!) cards in your MD with 8 of them being essential to your engine (Stars/Spheres). I guess a good metaphor would be trying to run a marathon with shoes made of lead. It does not essentially kill you but it hinders you more than your opponent (unless it's affinity you're playing against)
Thanks, the stony silence are in there for affinity but I'm not sure how prevalent it is at the moment. Is there anything we can do about Storm? I know they find rest in peace troublesome.
Affinity is a lot like Tron a "cycling" deck. It's good when artifact hate is low and bad when it's high. Nontheless it does not justify disabling your own deck like that in my opinion.
Against Storm there's not much we can so. RIP is one of the better cards. Alternatively some others and i have been dabbling with Orbs of Warding. It's only really good if you're on the play, get turn 3 tron and they have no Remand in hand.
It shuts down Empty the Warrens as well as Gifts Ungiven and Grapeshot.
It has some other appliances in MUs like all Valakut Decks and some stuff like 8-Whack...
Combo is just a genrally bad MU for Tron so it's something you just have to get used to i guess.
Commune with Dinosaurs, omg is that card good! Any land, not just basics, 5 cards of digging...heck, if they print a Dino we want...nah, that's just greedy
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I just started playing GB tron. I left Skred to come over to the dark side. I went 3-1 for 4th at my FNM last week and am hoping to do better this week, now that I know some of the meta. We have a Ponza deck, naya burn, eldrazi tron, traditional jund, a few grixis DS. Those were what I saw in the tables around me. The main board is the same as Hoogland's list in the gathering magic article he wrote a few weeks back (but I changed the mana base up a bit and put in 4x llanowar wastes). This is my SB:
Is that a decent list? I was thinking I want Pithing Needles in there but honestly don't know what to take out for them. My only loss last week was to naya burn due to shrine of burning rage. There's also a PPTQ coming up that I want to do that I have no idea about the meta and would love to do well there. Any help from you guys would be fantastic.
Wow I want the heck out of that new o-stone art! And glad I didn't go all in on groves. Been picking them up real slow when I see excellent deals and now I can just wait it out for the 4th.
So, after years running GR w/Groves I started playtesting a GB list. I'm testing the standard split of 3x Blooming Marsh + 1x Llanowar Wastes, and I'm running Brutality MB with Push in the SB. And I'm not happy with the Fastlands. They being ETB tapped when you have Tron out can really mess up some sequencing, in particular when you're going for a T4 O-Stone and Ugin.
With that in mind, here's a question for those of you playing a similar list: Have you tested running just Painlands instead of a Pain/Fastlands mix? I imagine Brutality MB helps offset some of the life loss from Painlands, while making Burn a lot less scary.
So, after years running GR w/Groves I started playtesting a GB list. I'm testing the standard split of 3x Blooming Marsh + 1x Llanowar Wastes, and I'm running Brutality MB with Push in the SB. And I'm not happy with the Fastlands. They being ETB tapped when you have Tron out can really mess up some sequencing, in particular when you're going for a T4 O-Stone and Ugin.
With that in mind, here's a question for those of you playing a similar list: Have you tested running just Painlands instead of a Pain/Fastlands mix? I imagine Brutality MB helps offset some of the life loss from Painlands, while making Burn a lot less scary.
as you briefly touched, our bad MUs are aggro decks (combo decks as well of course but few life loss is not necessary a big thing), specially burn and affinity. Yes I tried all pain lands and yes, the conclusion is indeed painful specially when you just need 1 more life to cast ostone or ugin on turn 4. Also, when you're hand is a little clunky and you need to play stirrings turn 1 and scrying turn 2, with pain lands, you will lose 2 life which is critical to survive. The best combination based on my experience on both GW and GB variant is 2 fast lands and 1 pain land (more for the turn 4 play), also if you are gonna do a turn 4 ugin, ostone or world breaker, play the fast land on turn 3 and the last tron piece on turn 4 (adds abit of bluff that you dont have it), unless you are casting karn or wurmcoil turn 3.
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Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
So, after years running GR w/Groves I started playtesting a GB list. I'm testing the standard split of 3x Blooming Marsh + 1x Llanowar Wastes, and I'm running Brutality MB with Push in the SB. And I'm not happy with the Fastlands. They being ETB tapped when you have Tron out can really mess up some sequencing, in particular when you're going for a T4 O-Stone and Ugin.
With that in mind, here's a question for those of you playing a similar list: Have you tested running just Painlands instead of a Pain/Fastlands mix? I imagine Brutality MB helps offset some of the life loss from Painlands, while making Burn a lot less scary.
Most of the recent lists (Hoogland, the T8 list in Sao Paulo) have been 19-land builds with 12 Tron + 1 Sanctum + 1 Wastes + 2 basics + 1 flex (generally GQ, Scavenger Grounds in Sao Paulo) + 2 fastlands.
Just painlands is a little scary because each pain activation is about half a shock, and shocks are super-painful (obviously). I definitely agree in shaving 3 -> 2, though.
So, after years running GR w/Groves I started playtesting a GB list. I'm testing the standard split of 3x Blooming Marsh + 1x Llanowar Wastes, and I'm running Brutality MB with Push in the SB. And I'm not happy with the Fastlands. They being ETB tapped when you have Tron out can really mess up some sequencing, in particular when you're going for a T4 O-Stone and Ugin.
With that in mind, here's a question for those of you playing a similar list: Have you tested running just Painlands instead of a Pain/Fastlands mix? I imagine Brutality MB helps offset some of the life loss from Painlands, while making Burn a lot less scary.
I find it extremely rare for the Blooming Marshes to mess up the sequencing of Oblivion Stone or Ugin. Because if you might be casting those, then you should play the GW land before your third Tron land. The only times this doesn't work is if if you want turn 3 Tron to play a Karn or Wurmcoil Engine (or less commonly, a World Breaker if you have a Chromatic available), but if you're able to do that then an Oblivion Stone or Ugin is generally less urgent. Really, the only times for the purpose of an O-Stone or Ugin that the fastlands mess up sequencing is if:
1) You have the Blooming Marsh in hand (if you don't have any, then it doesn't matter).
2) You have an Oblivion Stone or Ugin in hand (again, if you don't have them available, it doesn't matter).
3) You have the ability to achieve turn 3 Tron.
4) You have a Karn or Wurmcoil Engine you want to cast, so you can't play Blooming Marsh before your fourth turn.
5) You don't have any other land in hand you can play on turn 4, like another Tron land, Sanctum of Ugin, or Llanowar Wastes.
It isn't all that common that all of these line up. I suppose there's also the situation that you draw the Blooming Marsh on your fourth turn and don't have another land to play, but again, everything lining up for it to be an actual problem still isn't that likely.
I don't think there's necessarily one variant that is above the other right now. I've been playing around with all of them and personally, I've found that GB feels exceedingly strong and fun to pilot. The discard MB can really be clutch, and fatal pushing bobs/goyfs/shadows etc feels so much better than PtE and ramping your opponent.
That being said, GW is really amazing with its options coming out of the sideboard. Leyline is strong right now, blessed alliance is really solid on the life gain both for yourself or against things like grixis shadow (2 for 1'ing a couple death's shadows by giving their health a bump is dirty), and rest in peace speaks for itself.
GR is also still a very real option, but only if you have the 4 groves in my opinion. They're more relevant than ever in keeping opponents life up when they want it low, and as said above their ability to x for 1 a little army of creatures will never not be good.
went 2-2 last night at fnm. beat abzan pretty easily as well as boggles (ugin = all star). then i played 2 GDS decks and could not get ahead of them either game. i'm pretty much still playing hoogland's last list from his article.
Unfortunately i forgot to note down how exactly i sideboarded but i will try to put it all together as good as i can from memory.
Round 1 vs. Classic Abzan (no Shadow)
Game 1 i was on a mull to 5 with a super slow potential Tron but not knowing what my opponent was playing i decided to keep and see how it goes. He went T1 Discard, T2 Goyf, T3 Lili. After a mull to 5 there was not much i could do anymore. Got stomped by Goyfs and Rhinos.
Board: +2 Thragtusk, +1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, +1 Relic// -1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, -2 Wurmcoil Engine, -1 Pyroclasm
Game 2 i kept a solid T3 Tron hand with a Karn. He had no discard the first couple turns and i jammed Karn into Ugin which was enough for him to concede.
Game 3 was more of a battle. He had tons of discard but no gas and i had no ways to hit Tron. After i finally got to Tron i hit Kozilek in the Stirrings. Drawing 4 cards when you're in a grindy MU just feels amazing! Kozilek then beat down for 2 turns winning it for me.
Round 2 vs. WR Taxes
Game 1 my opponent started with basic Plains and passed. Already figured i was in for a Taxes MU and was pretty happy i kept a hand with Pyroclasm and Kozilek's Return. He played T2 Leonin Arbiter but had no GQ to go along with it. He then went Turn 3 Flickerwisp and T4 "big" Thalia Thalia, heretic cathar. Felt pretty amazing to cast EOT Kozilek's Return eating his whole board. Managed to stabilize easily with an Ulamog after that and he scooped it.
Game 2 he mulled to 5 trying to find some hate, got stuck on 2 lands while i jammed Karn into Ugin... Not much to say here.
Round 3 vs. Affinity
Game 1 was super weird. I was on the play and started with a Mine into Star and had to explain the cards to him. He played a Darksteel Citadel and passed. Turn 2 i cracked for green, played a Power Plant and picked up a Tower with Sylvan Scrying. He played Glimmervoid and a Steel Overseer. Then i realized he's on affinity but still super confused about the incredible slow start... In the end i took one or two hits from Overseer before i got to do my thing.
Game 2 he again kept a slow hand with no real gas for the first three turns. He played a turn 2 Ethersworn Canonist which i exiled with a turn 3 Karn. He had to sac his Glimmervoid as he had no artifacts in play anymore, that's when he conceded.
Round 4 vs. Mardu Tokens
Game 1 he was on the play, started with a Thoughtseize off a Shockland and audibly sighed when he saw Ulamog and Ugin in my hand. He took the Ugin, obviously. The next turns he played his Token Generators in Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor which beat me down to 4. I managed to stick an Ulamog the previous turn before i was dead on board. Drew O-Stone off the top and swung for the win.
Game 2: On the play. Well. It's still Burn. Saw no lifegain at all.
Round 6 vs. Esper Death's Shadow
Game 1: Very close game. He saw none of his big threats at all. He beat me down with some Tokens from Lingering Souls but my sweeper handled these. After that it was pretty easy beatdown.
Game 2: I was overrun by a turn 2 Angler which he rode to victory with tons of counterspell backup. Not much to do here...
Game 3: Same as Game 2, only the Angler was on Turn 3. He showed me how he boarded and he had a whole playset of Ceremonious Rejection... Jeez i start hating that card...
Round 7 vs. Scapeshift (no breach)
Game 1: I hit Turn 4 Ulamog on the play, eating 2 of his 4 Lands. Immediately conceded.
Game 2: I was sitting comfortably behind an Orbs of Warding shutting off his Valakuts with an Ulamog waiting to finish the game. I connected once and he was down to 21 cards in his library. He looked through the exiled cards saying "We can shortcut this, if there are no more outs i concede" and then he said he still had one out in the deck, a Nature's Claim. Which he drew right off the top to blow up my Orbs and then Scapeshifted. That was such a crazy game, i can't even be mad about it!
Game 3: I was on the play again and chained Turn 4 Ulamog into Turm 5 Ulamog which got the job done.
Round 8 vs Storm
Game 1: On the draw. Storm.
Board: +2 Orbs of Warding, +2 Relic, +2 Nature's Claim//-2 Pyroclasm, -2 Kozilek's Return, -2 Karn (In hindsight i should have kept in some sweepers...)
Game 2: On the play. It's still Storm. Got killed by Goblins.
Round 9 vs Grixis Delver (no shadow)
Game 1: On the play. I hit a turn 3 Karn followed by Turn 4 Ugin. He had no Mana Leak or other interaction so i got the superfriends to win the game.
Board: +1 Kozilek, +1 Relic, +1 Thragtusk//-1 Ulamog, -1 Wurmcoil, -1 World Breaker (I had no idea what to expect from his board. I decided to test my luck and wait and see if he runs Blood Moons or Crumble and then board accordingly)
Game 2: Pretty grindy game but i had answers to all his threats. In the end Kozilek drew me a bunch of cards and i managed to cast both Kozilek and Ulamog in one turn but he was already dead on board by then. Still the games were super fun because my opponent was such a great guy!
If you guys have any questions please ask
Also a huge thank you to Thenarus for his help with the list!
Unfortunately i forgot to note down how exactly i sideboarded but i will try to put it all together as good as i can from memory.
Round 1 vs. Classic Abzan (no Shadow)
Game 1 i was on a mull to 5 with a super slow potential Tron but not knowing what my opponent was playing i decided to keep and see how it goes. He went T1 Discard, T2 Goyf, T3 Lili. After a mull to 5 there was not much i could do anymore. Got stomped by Goyfs and Rhinos.
Board: +2 Thragtusk, +1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, +1 Relic// -1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, -2 Wurmcoil Engine, -1 Pyroclasm
Game 2 i kept a solid T3 Tron hand with a Karn. He had no discard the first couple turns and i jammed Karn into Ugin which was enough for him to concede.
Game 3 was more of a battle. He had tons of discard but no gas and i had no ways to hit Tron. After i finally got to Tron i hit Kozilek in the Stirrings. Drawing 4 cards when you're in a grindy MU just feels amazing! Kozilek then beat down for 2 turns winning it for me.
Round 2 vs. WR Taxes
Game 1 my opponent started with basic Plains and passed. Already figured i was in for a Taxes MU and was pretty happy i kept a hand with Pyroclasm and Kozilek's Return. He played T2 Leonin Arbiter but had no GQ to go along with it. He then went Turn 3 Flickerwisp and T4 "big" Thalia Thalia, heretic cathar. Felt pretty amazing to cast EOT Kozilek's Return eating his whole board. Managed to stabilize easily with an Ulamog after that and he scooped it.
Game 2 he mulled to 5 trying to find some hate, got stuck on 2 lands while i jammed Karn into Ugin... Not much to say here.
Round 3 vs. Affinity
Game 1 was super weird. I was on the play and started with a Mine into Star and had to explain the cards to him. He played a Darksteel Citadel and passed. Turn 2 i cracked for green, played a Power Plant and picked up a Tower with Sylvan Scrying. He played Glimmervoid and a Steel Overseer. Then i realized he's on affinity but still super confused about the incredible slow start... In the end i took one or two hits from Overseer before i got to do my thing.
Game 2 he again kept a slow hand with no real gas for the first three turns. He played a turn 2 Ethersworn Canonist which i exiled with a turn 3 Karn. He had to sac his Glimmervoid as he had no artifacts in play anymore, that's when he conceded.
Round 4 vs. Mardu Tokens
Game 1 he was on the play, started with a Thoughtseize off a Shockland and audibly sighed when he saw Ulamog and Ugin in my hand. He took the Ugin, obviously. The next turns he played his Token Generators in Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor which beat me down to 4. I managed to stick an Ulamog the previous turn before i was dead on board. Drew O-Stone off the top and swung for the win.
Game 2: On the play. Well. It's still Burn. Saw no lifegain at all.
Round 6 vs. Esper Death's Shadow
Game 1: Very close game. He saw none of his big threats at all. He beat me down with some Tokens from Lingering Souls but my sweeper handled these. After that it was pretty easy beatdown.
Game 2: I was overrun by a turn 2 Angler which he rode to victory with tons of counterspell backup. Not much to do here...
Game 3: Same as Game 2, only the Angler was on Turn 3. He showed me how he boarded and he had a whole playset of Ceremonious Rejection... Jeez i start hating that card...
Round 7 vs. Scapeshift (no breach)
Game 1: I hit Turn 4 Ulamog on the play, eating 2 of his 4 Lands. Immediately conceded.
Game 2: I was sitting comfortably behind an Orbs of Warding shutting off his Valakuts with an Ulamog waiting to finish the game. I connected once and he was down to 21 cards in his library. He looked through the exiled cards saying "We can shortcut this, if there are no more outs i concede" and then he said he still had one out in the deck, a Nature's Claim. Which he drew right off the top to blow up my Orbs and then Scapeshifted. That was such a crazy game, i can't even be mad about it!
Game 3: I was on the play again and chained Turn 4 Ulamog into Turm 5 Ulamog which got the job done.
Round 8 vs Storm
Game 1: On the draw. Storm.
Board: +2 Orbs of Warding, +2 Relic, +2 Nature's Claim//-2 Pyroclasm, -2 Kozilek's Return, -2 Karn (In hindsight i should have kept in some sweepers...)
Game 2: On the play. It's still Storm. Got killed by Goblins.
Round 9 vs Grixis Delver (no shadow)
Game 1: On the play. I hit a turn 3 Karn followed by Turn 4 Ugin. He had no Mana Leak or other interaction so i got the superfriends to win the game.
Board: +1 Kozilek, +1 Relic, +1 Thragtusk//-1 Ulamog, -1 Wurmcoil, -1 World Breaker (I had no idea what to expect from his board. I decided to test my luck and wait and see if he runs Blood Moons or Crumble and then board accordingly)
Game 2: Pretty grindy game but i had answers to all his threats. In the end Kozilek drew me a bunch of cards and i managed to cast both Kozilek and Ulamog in one turn but he was already dead on board by then. Still the games were super fun because my opponent was such a great guy!
If you guys have any questions please ask
Also a huge thank you to Thenarus for his help with the list!
on storm matchups i always find bring in warping wail, it kills baral and counters past in flames.
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MODERN
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
Warping Wail is solid to against Storm to counter Past in Flames, exile Baral, or counter whatever storm spell they are trying to Remand and recast. It is very important to note, however, that Storm is a Blood Moon deck after sideboarding, which renders Warping Wail basically uncastable by typical Gx Tron decks.
Quote from PraiseTheKappa »
I have been to MCM Series Hamburg this Saturday, finishing 42nd out of 386 players with 6-3. (...) Also a huge thank you to Thenarus for his help with the list!
Hey man, you were the one who did the damage, congrats! Just glad I could help in any way. I love that old Kozilek came in so handy! I do have a few questions for you:
1. Now that you've had time to process everything, and have seen your local meta, what would you change your list to look like now?
2. Were there times that Orbs of Warding was just a turn too slow?
1. Now that you've had time to process everything, and have seen your local meta, what would you change your list to look like now?
2. Were there times that Orbs of Warding was just a turn too slow?
1. Honestly i don't know if i would change anything. The Wurmcoils were somewhat underwhelming but that may be just because i faced so many White decks with Path that it didn't get to do much work.
There was one occasion where i was thinking "Damn, wish i had an Urza's Factory" when i really needed blockers against the DS deck but i was really happy playing two Forests.
Other than that, Pithing Needle was not a huge player in my MUs so i would consider cutting them for a 3rd Thragtusk and maybe a 4th Relic in the SB.
2. Yeah, definitely. On the draw against Burn it felt pretty bad. Other than that it was genrally a good draw and fine card to find in a Stirrings, especially against the Scapeshift variants. With which i, personally, tend to have problems if they are on a fast draw. I will definitely continue running them.
Also about the Warping Wail countering Past in Flames, i remember i boarded them in but couldn't remember at all what i took out for them, sorry. I think i boarded in two Wails for the reasons you fellas mentioned.
im been losing a lot lately in modo because of terrible matchups (burn, D&T, storm) and i don't see a lot of our usual midrange preys, i noticed that the games i win are mostly those i have turn 3/4 tron and if not, almost 80-90% i will lose. tweaked and tested build but i guess its more on the meta and they really know how to play against us being linear in a way.
i think we need plan B or C, or maybe an early threat.
have anybody tested goyf? was thinking of thought-knot but it still expensive to cast under blood moon and goyf can provide some time to ramp to 6-7 mana. was thinking of cutting 2 relic and 2 worldbreakers for 4 goyfs.
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Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
LEGACY
Turbo Depths
Big Eldrazi
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After not having been able to make it to my local LGS on a regular basis for some time (back when infect was a big deal), I have built my paper GW Tron deck on MTGO. However I'm not up on new takes on the deck or what the meta game looks like at the moment. I know about grixis death's shadow and E Tron (and i keep losing to storm) but that's about it. My sideboard is undoubtedly outdated and I was wondering if people would mind suggesting upgrades to the main and sideboard. Back in the day I would have tried it all myself and tested different things but unfortunately family life doesn't allow for that kind of thing.
1x Brushland
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Sanctum of Ugin
4x Temple Garden
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
Planeswalker (6)
4x Karn Liberated
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Chromatic Star
4x Expedition Map
3x Oblivion Stone
2x Relic of Progenitus
Creature (6)
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2x World Breaker
2x Wurmcoil Engine
Instant (3)
3x Path to Exile
Sorcery (8)
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Sylvan Scrying
3x Blessed Alliance
3x Nature's Claim
1x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
1x Spatial Contortion
2x Stony Silence
3x Warping Wail
GW Tron list - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-09-17-gw-tron/
Mono U Tron - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mono-u-tron-4/
-4 Temple Garden; +3 Brushland
They are painless and if you need an untapped white/green source later in the game you can always search up the Brushland.
-1 or 2 Relics
They are not as good as they used to. A 1-of relic MD can prove useful though as it is never dead. I would suggest running the 4th path or 3rd Wurmcoil for it.
SB:
-Spatial Contortion
You can better run a Condemn or other removal if you feel like you need it but Contortion does not do much in the meta.
-2 Stony Silence. Period.
Stony Silence is a card that you don't want to play. You board them in and potentially kill 17 (!) cards in your MD with 8 of them being essential to your engine (Stars/Spheres). I guess a good metaphor would be trying to run a marathon with shoes made of lead. It does not essentially kill you but it hinders you more than your opponent (unless it's affinity you're playing against)
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
GW Tron list - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-09-17-gw-tron/
Mono U Tron - http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mono-u-tron-4/
Against Storm there's not much we can so. RIP is one of the better cards. Alternatively some others and i have been dabbling with Orbs of Warding. It's only really good if you're on the play, get turn 3 tron and they have no Remand in hand.
It shuts down Empty the Warrens as well as Gifts Ungiven and Grapeshot.
It has some other appliances in MUs like all Valakut Decks and some stuff like 8-Whack...
Combo is just a genrally bad MU for Tron so it's something you just have to get used to i guess.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
1x Walking Ballista
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Swamp
1x Thoughtseize
4x Collective Brutality
2x Nature's Claim
2x Seal of Primordium
1x Devour Flesh
2x Thragtusk
Is that a decent list? I was thinking I want Pithing Needles in there but honestly don't know what to take out for them. My only loss last week was to naya burn due to shrine of burning rage. There's also a PPTQ coming up that I want to do that I have no idea about the meta and would love to do well there. Any help from you guys would be fantastic.
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
With that in mind, here's a question for those of you playing a similar list: Have you tested running just Painlands instead of a Pain/Fastlands mix? I imagine Brutality MB helps offset some of the life loss from Painlands, while making Burn a lot less scary.
as you briefly touched, our bad MUs are aggro decks (combo decks as well of course but few life loss is not necessary a big thing), specially burn and affinity. Yes I tried all pain lands and yes, the conclusion is indeed painful specially when you just need 1 more life to cast ostone or ugin on turn 4. Also, when you're hand is a little clunky and you need to play stirrings turn 1 and scrying turn 2, with pain lands, you will lose 2 life which is critical to survive. The best combination based on my experience on both GW and GB variant is 2 fast lands and 1 pain land (more for the turn 4 play), also if you are gonna do a turn 4 ugin, ostone or world breaker, play the fast land on turn 3 and the last tron piece on turn 4 (adds abit of bluff that you dont have it), unless you are casting karn or wurmcoil turn 3.
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
LEGACY
Turbo Depths
Big Eldrazi
Just painlands is a little scary because each pain activation is about half a shock, and shocks are super-painful (obviously). I definitely agree in shaving 3 -> 2, though.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
1) You have the Blooming Marsh in hand (if you don't have any, then it doesn't matter).
2) You have an Oblivion Stone or Ugin in hand (again, if you don't have them available, it doesn't matter).
3) You have the ability to achieve turn 3 Tron.
4) You have a Karn or Wurmcoil Engine you want to cast, so you can't play Blooming Marsh before your fourth turn.
5) You don't have any other land in hand you can play on turn 4, like another Tron land, Sanctum of Ugin, or Llanowar Wastes.
It isn't all that common that all of these line up. I suppose there's also the situation that you draw the Blooming Marsh on your fourth turn and don't have another land to play, but again, everything lining up for it to be an actual problem still isn't that likely.
That being said, GW is really amazing with its options coming out of the sideboard. Leyline is strong right now, blessed alliance is really solid on the life gain both for yourself or against things like grixis shadow (2 for 1'ing a couple death's shadows by giving their health a bump is dirty), and rest in peace speaks for itself.
GR is also still a very real option, but only if you have the 4 groves in my opinion. They're more relevant than ever in keeping opponents life up when they want it low, and as said above their ability to x for 1 a little army of creatures will never not be good.
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
I have been to MCM Series Hamburg this Saturday, finishing 42nd out of 386 players with 6-3. Here's the list i ran:
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the spirit Dragon
2 Ulamog, the ceaseless Hunger
1 World Breaker
3 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Chromatic Sphere
3 Oblivion Stone
4 Expedition Map
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Pyroclasm
2 Kozilek's Return
2 Pithing Needle
3 Nature's Claim
2 Thragtusk
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
3 Warping Wail
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Orbs of Warding
Unfortunately i forgot to note down how exactly i sideboarded but i will try to put it all together as good as i can from memory.
Round 1 vs. Classic Abzan (no Shadow)
Game 1 i was on a mull to 5 with a super slow potential Tron but not knowing what my opponent was playing i decided to keep and see how it goes. He went T1 Discard, T2 Goyf, T3 Lili. After a mull to 5 there was not much i could do anymore. Got stomped by Goyfs and Rhinos.
Board: +2 Thragtusk, +1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, +1 Relic// -1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, -2 Wurmcoil Engine, -1 Pyroclasm
Game 2 i kept a solid T3 Tron hand with a Karn. He had no discard the first couple turns and i jammed Karn into Ugin which was enough for him to concede.
Game 3 was more of a battle. He had tons of discard but no gas and i had no ways to hit Tron. After i finally got to Tron i hit Kozilek in the Stirrings. Drawing 4 cards when you're in a grindy MU just feels amazing! Kozilek then beat down for 2 turns winning it for me.
Round 2 vs. WR Taxes
Game 1 my opponent started with basic Plains and passed. Already figured i was in for a Taxes MU and was pretty happy i kept a hand with Pyroclasm and Kozilek's Return. He played T2 Leonin Arbiter but had no GQ to go along with it. He then went Turn 3 Flickerwisp and T4 "big" Thalia Thalia, heretic cathar. Felt pretty amazing to cast EOT Kozilek's Return eating his whole board. Managed to stabilize easily with an Ulamog after that and he scooped it.
Board: +3 Nature's Claim, +1 Thragtusk//-1 Relic, -2 Wurmcoil, -1 World Breaker
Game 2 he mulled to 5 trying to find some hate, got stuck on 2 lands while i jammed Karn into Ugin... Not much to say here.
Round 3 vs. Affinity
Game 1 was super weird. I was on the play and started with a Mine into Star and had to explain the cards to him. He played a Darksteel Citadel and passed. Turn 2 i cracked for green, played a Power Plant and picked up a Tower with Sylvan Scrying. He played Glimmervoid and a Steel Overseer. Then i realized he's on affinity but still super confused about the incredible slow start... In the end i took one or two hits from Overseer before i got to do my thing.
Board: +3 Nature's Claim, +2 Pithing Needle//-2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, -1 Relic, -1 Ulamog, -1 Karn
Game 2 he again kept a slow hand with no real gas for the first three turns. He played a turn 2 Ethersworn Canonist which i exiled with a turn 3 Karn. He had to sac his Glimmervoid as he had no artifacts in play anymore, that's when he conceded.
Round 4 vs. Mardu Tokens
Game 1 he was on the play, started with a Thoughtseize off a Shockland and audibly sighed when he saw Ulamog and Ugin in my hand. He took the Ugin, obviously. The next turns he played his Token Generators in Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor which beat me down to 4. I managed to stick an Ulamog the previous turn before i was dead on board. Drew O-Stone off the top and swung for the win.
Board: +2 Orbs of Warding, +2 Thragtusk//-1 Relic, -1 Ulamog, -2 Wurmcoil
Game 2 he mulled to 6, i stuck a Turn 4 Ugin and he scooped.
Round 5 vs. Burn
Game 1: On the draw. Well. Burn.
Board: +2 Thragtusk, +3 Nature's Claim//-3 Karn, -1 Relic, -1 Ulamog
Game 2: On the play. Well. It's still Burn. Saw no lifegain at all.
Round 6 vs. Esper Death's Shadow
Game 1: Very close game. He saw none of his big threats at all. He beat me down with some Tokens from Lingering Souls but my sweeper handled these. After that it was pretty easy beatdown.
Board: +1 Kozilek, +2 Relic, +2 Thragtusk//-2 Pyroclasm, -1 Ugin, -1 Ulamog, -1 Karn
Game 2: I was overrun by a turn 2 Angler which he rode to victory with tons of counterspell backup. Not much to do here...
Game 3: Same as Game 2, only the Angler was on Turn 3. He showed me how he boarded and he had a whole playset of Ceremonious Rejection... Jeez i start hating that card...
Round 7 vs. Scapeshift (no breach)
Game 1: I hit Turn 4 Ulamog on the play, eating 2 of his 4 Lands. Immediately conceded.
Board: +2 Orbs of Warding, +3 Warping Wail//-2 Pyroclasm, -2 Kozilek's Return, -1 Ugin
Game 2: I was sitting comfortably behind an Orbs of Warding shutting off his Valakuts with an Ulamog waiting to finish the game. I connected once and he was down to 21 cards in his library. He looked through the exiled cards saying "We can shortcut this, if there are no more outs i concede" and then he said he still had one out in the deck, a Nature's Claim. Which he drew right off the top to blow up my Orbs and then Scapeshifted. That was such a crazy game, i can't even be mad about it!
Game 3: I was on the play again and chained Turn 4 Ulamog into Turm 5 Ulamog which got the job done.
Round 8 vs Storm
Game 1: On the draw. Storm.
Board: +2 Orbs of Warding, +2 Relic, +2 Nature's Claim//-2 Pyroclasm, -2 Kozilek's Return, -2 Karn (In hindsight i should have kept in some sweepers...)
Game 2: On the play. It's still Storm. Got killed by Goblins.
Round 9 vs Grixis Delver (no shadow)
Game 1: On the play. I hit a turn 3 Karn followed by Turn 4 Ugin. He had no Mana Leak or other interaction so i got the superfriends to win the game.
Board: +1 Kozilek, +1 Relic, +1 Thragtusk//-1 Ulamog, -1 Wurmcoil, -1 World Breaker (I had no idea what to expect from his board. I decided to test my luck and wait and see if he runs Blood Moons or Crumble and then board accordingly)
Game 2: Pretty grindy game but i had answers to all his threats. In the end Kozilek drew me a bunch of cards and i managed to cast both Kozilek and Ulamog in one turn but he was already dead on board by then. Still the games were super fun because my opponent was such a great guy!
If you guys have any questions please ask
Also a huge thank you to Thenarus for his help with the list!
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
on storm matchups i always find bring in warping wail, it kills baral and counters past in flames.
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
LEGACY
Turbo Depths
Big Eldrazi
Hey man, you were the one who did the damage, congrats! Just glad I could help in any way. I love that old Kozilek came in so handy! I do have a few questions for you:
1. Now that you've had time to process everything, and have seen your local meta, what would you change your list to look like now?
2. Were there times that Orbs of Warding was just a turn too slow?
1. Honestly i don't know if i would change anything. The Wurmcoils were somewhat underwhelming but that may be just because i faced so many White decks with Path that it didn't get to do much work.
There was one occasion where i was thinking "Damn, wish i had an Urza's Factory" when i really needed blockers against the DS deck but i was really happy playing two Forests.
Other than that, Pithing Needle was not a huge player in my MUs so i would consider cutting them for a 3rd Thragtusk and maybe a 4th Relic in the SB.
2. Yeah, definitely. On the draw against Burn it felt pretty bad. Other than that it was genrally a good draw and fine card to find in a Stirrings, especially against the Scapeshift variants. With which i, personally, tend to have problems if they are on a fast draw. I will definitely continue running them.
Also about the Warping Wail countering Past in Flames, i remember i boarded them in but couldn't remember at all what i took out for them, sorry. I think i boarded in two Wails for the reasons you fellas mentioned.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
i think we need plan B or C, or maybe an early threat.
have anybody tested goyf? was thinking of thought-knot but it still expensive to cast under blood moon and goyf can provide some time to ramp to 6-7 mana. was thinking of cutting 2 relic and 2 worldbreakers for 4 goyfs.
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
LEGACY
Turbo Depths
Big Eldrazi