Does anyone stream regularly? I would love to see some of these new ideas in action. Or a YouTube playlist.
I may be picking up the deck soon. I am looking to get out of Affinity and want a deck of similar cost that I don't have to spend additional tix on. If I do I can stream.
This deck went 7-1 at the SCG invitational this week-end. It appears the more successful lists are foregoing wurmcoils entirely (as noted in the above lists) for more worldbreakers. Another interesting thing about the list is the increased number of sanctums. The increased number of sanctums along with all of the threats triggering it, as apposed to the feels bad wurmcoil nonbo,
Played 24 games against burn to test the matchup as well as sideboard option.
Winrate against burn: 62.5%
This winrate surprised me as I was expecting the matchup against burn to be very bad due to the lack of cheap board wipes, but it seemed like the deck had enough ways to handle the burn matchup.
There are several variations of this sideboarding plan depending on what type of burn deck you are up against. A more burn heavy burn deck would have you add a third nature's claim and remove an all is dust. The plan with this sideboard is to remove most of your late game threats in favors of giving yourself ways to mitigate the damage burn deals to you until you can play kozilek. Kozilek effectively wins you the game against burn in most situations, I will explain more about this later.
Things to note about card choices.
1. Kozilek, the Great Distortion was easily the MVP against the burn matchup. Out of all sideboard games I won, 7/10 of them were because of Kozilek. Kozilek gives you a mostly consistent way to stabilize against burn, as it prevents them from casting any of their burn spells. In conjunction with some of the other sideboard options, I was able to consistently cast it against burn. Burn has no way to stop Kozilek once it enters the battlefield meaning it is effectively an emrakul for the burn matchup. The only problem with Kozilek is that it has some consistency issues as to whether or not you get a two CMC card, although I only had this problem occur once.
2. Thragtusk is arguably the second most useful card in the burn matchup. It gives a way to both stabilize your life total against burn and gives board presence. Thragtusk gives you enough time to stall until you can stabilize with kozilek and it can sometimes win the game on its own against burn, 4/10 sideboard games that I won were won because of thragtusk (note, there is some overlap between thragtusk and kozilek, as both were responsible in one matche). One thing to note is to be cautious when playing thragtusk unless you know they don't or can't cast skullcrack/atarka command.
3. Thought Knot Seer is also arguably the second most useful card in this matchup. Being able to cast it on turn 3 most of the time, it gives you both a body that can block their small burn creatures as well as removing a burn spell from their hand. Burn rarely is able to remove this card, meaning its presence alone gives you time. Thought Knot Seer also gives you the ability to see whether or not your opponent has a skull crack before you cast thragtusk. This card is arguably the reason we can win game 1 against burn.
4. Nature's claim has some use in this matchup due to its ability to gain life on your artifacts. It can also be used in conjunction with your spellskite in order to prevent cards like destructive revelry from dealing damage to you; you can also mitigate the card disadvantage from using nature's claim on yourself by using it on a spellskite that was about to be destroyed through other means as well.
5. Spellskite served as a card that observed a lightning bolt or blocked, but it is necessary to be careful when casting this card as it can enable the burn players artifact hate spells, cards that would otherwise be dead if you didn't. One other thing to note is that you should be careful when casting map/chromatic sphere on turn 1 when on the draw for this reason.
1. Kozilek, the Great Distortion was easily the MVP against the burn matchup. Out of all sideboard games I won, 7/10 of them were because of Kozilek. Kozilek gives you a mostly consistent way to stabilize against burn, as it prevents them from casting any of their burn spells. In conjunction with some of the other sideboard options, I was able to consistently cast it against burn. Burn has no way to stop Kozilek once it enters the battlefield meaning it is effectively an emrakul for the burn matchup. The only problem with Kozilek is that it has some consistency issues as to whether or not you get a two CMC card, although I only had this problem occur once.
That was the most bizarre of things that I've seen in Magic (I was his opponent when this happened). I've been playing Kozilek against burn as well (see previous page) in a variety of decks through the Eldrazi Winter and in the games that I resolved him, I never had a mismatched CMC. So I think we can hopefully write that off as a rare anomaly. But I am stoked that I am finally not the only person that can attest to Kozilek's power. And I can say from being on the other side as well that Kozi is oppressive because by the time he comes down, the burn player has whittled their advantage down to the point where burn players can't just throw spells and hope one sticks (with a like less than 1% exception) because burn will run out of cards before Kozilek.
I have a recommendation moving forward that I would like to repeat. Replace one All is Dust with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. He's Dust on steroids not because he exiles but because he can follow up with sweeping the field by Ghostfire'ing any follow-up or the opponent's face. He may even be worthy of a two-of if you like him a lot, and the ultimate can happen from time to time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Played 24 games against burn to test the matchup as well as sideboard option.
Winrate against burn: 62.5%
This winrate surprised me as I was expecting the matchup against burn to be very bad due to the lack of cheap board wipes, but it seemed like the deck had enough ways to handle the burn matchup.
There are several variations of this sideboarding plan depending on what type of burn deck you are up against. A more burn heavy burn deck would have you add a third nature's claim and remove an all is dust. The plan with this sideboard is to remove most of your late game threats in favors of giving yourself ways to mitigate the damage burn deals to you until you can play kozilek. Kozilek effectively wins you the game against burn in most situations, I will explain more about this later.
Things to note about card choices.
1. Kozilek, the Great Distortion was easily the MVP against the burn matchup. Out of all sideboard games I won, 7/10 of them were because of Kozilek. Kozilek gives you a mostly consistent way to stabilize against burn, as it prevents them from casting any of their burn spells. In conjunction with some of the other sideboard options, I was able to consistently cast it against burn. Burn has no way to stop Kozilek once it enters the battlefield meaning it is effectively an emrakul for the burn matchup. The only problem with Kozilek is that it has some consistency issues as to whether or not you get a two CMC card, although I only had this problem occur once.
2. Thragtusk is arguably the second most useful card in the burn matchup. It gives a way to both stabilize your life total against burn and gives board presence. Thragtusk gives you enough time to stall until you can stabilize with kozilek and it can sometimes win the game on its own against burn, 4/10 sideboard games that I won were won because of thragtusk (note, there is some overlap between thragtusk and kozilek, as both were responsible in one matche). One thing to note is to be cautious when playing thragtusk unless you know they don't or can't cast skullcrack/atarka command.
3. Thought Knot Seer is also arguably the second most useful card in this matchup. Being able to cast it on turn 3 most of the time, it gives you both a body that can block their small burn creatures as well as removing a burn spell from their hand. Burn rarely is able to remove this card, meaning its presence alone gives you time. Thought Knot Seer also gives you the ability to see whether or not your opponent has a skull crack before you cast thragtusk. This card is arguably the reason we can win game 1 against burn.
4. Nature's claim has some use in this matchup due to its ability to gain life on your artifacts. It can also be used in conjunction with your spellskite in order to prevent cards like destructive revelry from dealing damage to you; you can also mitigate the card disadvantage from using nature's claim on yourself by using it on a spellskite that was about to be destroyed through other means as well.
5. Spellskite served as a card that observed a lightning bolt or blocked, but it is necessary to be careful when casting this card as it can enable the burn players artifact hate spells, cards that would otherwise be dead if you didn't. One other thing to note is that you should be careful when casting map/chromatic sphere on turn 1 when on the draw for this reason.
Dont know if you realize but your lowest CMC creature (Thought-Knot Seer) activates Feed the Clan. Everytime i resolve this spell for 10 hp against Burn or any fast Zoo, i win the game. You should test it more. No Burn deck can comeback from a resolved TKS turn 2 followed by a FTC.
Ill go an test it as soon as possible as well, but i am alerady in love with Thought Knot Seer.
Are all the eggs and search cards required or can we cut some to ad Reliq of Progenitus to main oder sideboard?
maybe better in SB with -1 spellskite -1Kozilek +2 Relic?
With StarcityGames States coming up next weekend I'd like to share my decklist to get some discussion going about the current state of Tron. First, I'd like to say that I've tried the Mono Green Eldrazi Tron on MTGO. Its a good deck, and I think most its Midrange/Control/Combo matchups are better than the stock Tron build, but I think its worst matchups are even worse. I expect a fair amount of Burn and Infect in my state, so I'm bringing this list:
Jaddi Offshoot has been my SB tech vs Burn/Aggro. It comes down turn 1 and pings lifegain instead of getting it all in one shot and leaving yourself open to a Skullcrack effect. Worst case scenario, they bolt it or you chump block a 3 power+ creature and you effectively gained 3 life. Best case, it gains you you a life each turn, and keeps a 2 power creature at bay every turn, "gaining" you anywhere from 5-10 life as long as the game goes on. Also great in multiples!
How's your deck been doing with no graveyard interaction? I mean are the warping wails enough against decks like living end for example?
I took up Living End today to see just that, and I can say the answer is definitely no. Grave hate is still as important as ever. Living End though still is one of our worst match ups because they run 8 land hate cards main. And it looks like it's catching on in the meta for the moment.
The best hope is honestly to race out as many Thought-Knot Seers as possible to pluck the land hate and cascade cards before they can use them.
Also, Relic disrupts the Sword/Thopter combo, Delve is still popular even without the blue cards, and there's always random things to hate out like Snapcaster Mage.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
I liked ur idea to cut Karn.
It feels like its more fun and effective to play a t3 Conduit of Ruin to have a creature in play and tutor Worldberaker for t4 than just slam Karn t3, exile something and let him die.
Maybe im to focus on my meta that contains alot of aggro.
How's your deck been doing with no graveyard interaction? I mean are the warping wails enough against decks like living end for example?
I took up Living End today to see just that, and I can say the answer is definitely no. Grave hate is still as important as ever. Living End though still is one of our worst match ups because they run 8 land hate cards main. And it looks like it's catching on in the meta for the moment.
The best hope is honestly to race out as many Thought-Knot Seers as possible to pluck the land hate and cascade cards before they can use them.
Also, Relic disrupts the Sword/Thopter combo, Delve is still popular even without the blue cards, and there's always random things to hate out like Snapcaster Mage.
I am considering replacing the warping wails for relics. Warping Wail didn't really perform that well in testing against Infect and most of the wins against infect were do to either turn 3 tron, thought knots, or spellskites. Seems that we might have to accept Infect as a bad matchup and instead choose a sideboard choice that covers more matchups.
Have you guys seen Joe losetts mono green tron list? He was streaming last night with it. I've been testing with it and I think I like it better than the aforementioned mono green list. I haven't like thought knot as much as i thought i would and having to chose between a urza land and a temple is just a pain in the ass. Also, I think ditching wurmcoil is a big no no.
This is the first time I m writing in this thread. I'm an experienced player and I play competitively a variety of formats. Modern is my least favorite one, but when i do play it I used to play Tron. In every big tournament I've always lost against burn and more specifically to one card: Molten Rain. How do you beat a card that kills your plan while you can execute yours efficiently?
Your list rocks. I like it and I will surely test it. Please give me some advice of how to fight that stupid card that wreaks our deck.
Cheers!
Haven't had major problems with that card, although I think that is due to the abundance of sideboard cards we have that work in the burn matchup. Our curve is lowered significantly in games 2 and 3 where our biggest creatures excluding kozilek cost 4, 5, or 6 mana. How you play against it really depends on whether or not you are on the play or the draw: if on the play, just cast thought knot on turn 3 if possible and take it from their hand. If on the draw or if you don't have a thought knot or a way to get it out fast enough, keep a hand with either a lot of redundancy in it (good number of maps, spheres, scryings, etc) or a hand with ways to preserve your life total cheaply (nature's claims or spellskite) so you can mitigate the loss of a land long enough to get something useful out (thragtusk or conduit). Alternative is getting tron on the play and casting thragtusk or conduit, but this is far less likely to occur than anything I mentioned above. I also recommend if you are on the draw to hold onto eldrazi temple (if you only have one copy) until you can use it to play thought-knot as this also helps to mitigate the damage molten rain does (this might be arguable if you have natural tron and an eldrazi temple on the draw but only if the burn player doesn't realize this.)
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
3 World Breaker
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
3 Oblivion Stone
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Kozilek's Return
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Torpor Orb
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Thragtusk
4 Nature's Claim
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
This deck went 7-1 at the SCG invitational this week-end. It appears the more successful lists are foregoing wurmcoils entirely (as noted in the above lists) for more worldbreakers. Another interesting thing about the list is the increased number of sanctums. The increased number of sanctums along with all of the threats triggering it, as apposed to the feels bad wurmcoil nonbo,
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Forest
Tutors and Color Fixing
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Conduit of Ruin
3 World Breaker
4 Karn Liberated
3 All is Dust
2 Creeping Corrosion
3 Thragtusk
3 Nature's Claim
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 Spellskite
3 Warping Wail
Played 24 games against burn to test the matchup as well as sideboard option.
Winrate against burn: 62.5%
This winrate surprised me as I was expecting the matchup against burn to be very bad due to the lack of cheap board wipes, but it seemed like the deck had enough ways to handle the burn matchup.
Sideboarding: SB: +3 Thragtusk, + 1 Kozilek, +3 Spellskite, +2 Nature's Claim, -4 Karn, -2 Ulamog, -3 World Breaker.
There are several variations of this sideboarding plan depending on what type of burn deck you are up against. A more burn heavy burn deck would have you add a third nature's claim and remove an all is dust. The plan with this sideboard is to remove most of your late game threats in favors of giving yourself ways to mitigate the damage burn deals to you until you can play kozilek. Kozilek effectively wins you the game against burn in most situations, I will explain more about this later.
Things to note about card choices.
1. Kozilek, the Great Distortion was easily the MVP against the burn matchup. Out of all sideboard games I won, 7/10 of them were because of Kozilek. Kozilek gives you a mostly consistent way to stabilize against burn, as it prevents them from casting any of their burn spells. In conjunction with some of the other sideboard options, I was able to consistently cast it against burn. Burn has no way to stop Kozilek once it enters the battlefield meaning it is effectively an emrakul for the burn matchup. The only problem with Kozilek is that it has some consistency issues as to whether or not you get a two CMC card, although I only had this problem occur once.
2. Thragtusk is arguably the second most useful card in the burn matchup. It gives a way to both stabilize your life total against burn and gives board presence. Thragtusk gives you enough time to stall until you can stabilize with kozilek and it can sometimes win the game on its own against burn, 4/10 sideboard games that I won were won because of thragtusk (note, there is some overlap between thragtusk and kozilek, as both were responsible in one matche). One thing to note is to be cautious when playing thragtusk unless you know they don't or can't cast skullcrack/atarka command.
3. Thought Knot Seer is also arguably the second most useful card in this matchup. Being able to cast it on turn 3 most of the time, it gives you both a body that can block their small burn creatures as well as removing a burn spell from their hand. Burn rarely is able to remove this card, meaning its presence alone gives you time. Thought Knot Seer also gives you the ability to see whether or not your opponent has a skull crack before you cast thragtusk. This card is arguably the reason we can win game 1 against burn.
4. Nature's claim has some use in this matchup due to its ability to gain life on your artifacts. It can also be used in conjunction with your spellskite in order to prevent cards like destructive revelry from dealing damage to you; you can also mitigate the card disadvantage from using nature's claim on yourself by using it on a spellskite that was about to be destroyed through other means as well.
5. Spellskite served as a card that observed a lightning bolt or blocked, but it is necessary to be careful when casting this card as it can enable the burn players artifact hate spells, cards that would otherwise be dead if you didn't. One other thing to note is that you should be careful when casting map/chromatic sphere on turn 1 when on the draw for this reason.
I have a recommendation moving forward that I would like to repeat. Replace one All is Dust with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. He's Dust on steroids not because he exiles but because he can follow up with sweeping the field by Ghostfire'ing any follow-up or the opponent's face. He may even be worthy of a two-of if you like him a lot, and the ultimate can happen from time to time.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Dont know if you realize but your lowest CMC creature (Thought-Knot Seer) activates Feed the Clan. Everytime i resolve this spell for 10 hp against Burn or any fast Zoo, i win the game. You should test it more. No Burn deck can comeback from a resolved TKS turn 2 followed by a FTC.
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
Ill go an test it as soon as possible as well, but i am alerady in love with Thought Knot Seer.
Are all the eggs and search cards required or can we cut some to ad Reliq of Progenitus to main oder sideboard?
maybe better in SB with -1 spellskite -1Kozilek +2 Relic?
www.magickeller.de
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4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Forest
2 Sanctum of Ugin
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Pyroclasm
2 Oblivion Stone
3 World Breaker
4 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Not a ton of surprises here. The Oblivion Stone count is lower than normal in favor of World Breaker. I may go back to a 3/2 split for Sunday.
And this is my sideboard
2 Spellskite
3 Nature's Claim
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Jaddi Offshoot
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Jaddi Offshoot has been my SB tech vs Burn/Aggro. It comes down turn 1 and pings lifegain instead of getting it all in one shot and leaving yourself open to a Skullcrack effect. Worst case scenario, they bolt it or you chump block a 3 power+ creature and you effectively gained 3 life. Best case, it gains you you a life each turn, and keeps a 2 power creature at bay every turn, "gaining" you anywhere from 5-10 life as long as the game goes on. Also great in multiples!
Thoughts?
Currently Playing:
Modern:
Tron
Titan-Shift
Ugin is bonkers, never take him out the 75.
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
I have him in the sideboard but I was just wondering since a lot of people have been taking him out of the deck
How's your deck been doing with no graveyard interaction? I mean are the warping wails enough against decks like living end for example?
The best hope is honestly to race out as many Thought-Knot Seers as possible to pluck the land hate and cascade cards before they can use them.
Also, Relic disrupts the Sword/Thopter combo, Delve is still popular even without the blue cards, and there's always random things to hate out like Snapcaster Mage.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
I liked ur idea to cut Karn.
It feels like its more fun and effective to play a t3 Conduit of Ruin to have a creature in play and tutor Worldberaker for t4 than just slam Karn t3, exile something and let him die.
Maybe im to focus on my meta that contains alot of aggro.
Here is something i brewed together:
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Forest
Tutors and Color Fixing
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Conduit of Ruin
3 World Breaker
2 Wurmcoil
Removal
3 Pyroclasm
2 Kozilek's Return
3 Feed the Clan
3 Nature's Claim
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Spellskite
3 Warping Wail
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Magickeller Hannover YOUTUBE Channel
I am considering replacing the warping wails for relics. Warping Wail didn't really perform that well in testing against Infect and most of the wins against infect were do to either turn 3 tron, thought knots, or spellskites. Seems that we might have to accept Infect as a bad matchup and instead choose a sideboard choice that covers more matchups.
Haven't had major problems with that card, although I think that is due to the abundance of sideboard cards we have that work in the burn matchup. Our curve is lowered significantly in games 2 and 3 where our biggest creatures excluding kozilek cost 4, 5, or 6 mana. How you play against it really depends on whether or not you are on the play or the draw: if on the play, just cast thought knot on turn 3 if possible and take it from their hand. If on the draw or if you don't have a thought knot or a way to get it out fast enough, keep a hand with either a lot of redundancy in it (good number of maps, spheres, scryings, etc) or a hand with ways to preserve your life total cheaply (nature's claims or spellskite) so you can mitigate the loss of a land long enough to get something useful out (thragtusk or conduit). Alternative is getting tron on the play and casting thragtusk or conduit, but this is far less likely to occur than anything I mentioned above. I also recommend if you are on the draw to hold onto eldrazi temple (if you only have one copy) until you can use it to play thought-knot as this also helps to mitigate the damage molten rain does (this might be arguable if you have natural tron and an eldrazi temple on the draw but only if the burn player doesn't realize this.)
www.magickeller.de
Facebook:
www.facebook.com/magickeller
Youtube:
Magickeller Hannover YOUTUBE Channel