How does one actually use Karn Liberated in a deck. I was excited because he was my first planes-walker, (and apparently a good one) and then an't a clue how to have enough to protect him whilst needing him.
In this deck your not to worried about protecting him, usually you use him for what ever you need. That being either for targeted destruction or discard.
RDW/Burn I need to test more against, but I am pretty sure the board is Leyline Of Santity (if you have it), Trinisphere/Thorn Of Amethyst, Krosan Grip (for Blood Moon), and Rule Of Law (if you have it)
Game 1 I know is a race if you can turn 3 Wurmcoil at around 10 life you can easily outrace their burn, Karn can work if they are stuck on 1-2 lands, Goblin Guide can help accelerate your plan by finding Tron Pieces. Post board your hate should slow them down enough to land Wurmcoil and bring your life total high enough so it doesn't matter
Overall it is very favorable after board, they don't have Sowing Salt as it is to mana intensive for the deck and K. Grip can easily handle Blood Moon
Martyr Proc and B/W Tokens I'll proxy up and test with and against to see what to do
Most decks rune Nature's Claim in sb which can handle Blood Moon quite easily. I haven't seen to many with K Grip in board.
Most decks rune Nature's Claim in sb which can handle Blood Moon quite easily. I haven't seen to many with K Grip in board.
Claim works as well, as does Seal Of Primordium, K Grip and Blood Moon effectively come down the same turn, the advantage to grip is not being counterable which is relevant vs the WUR Delver variant that sometimes runs Blood Moon in the board
As for Karn you are not really protecting him, usually he is a turn 3 super Vindicate, or turn 3 Night Terrors, if you untap with Karn active you have probably won
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
How does one actually use Karn Liberated in a deck. I was excited because he was my first planes-walker, (and apparently a good one) and then an't a clue how to have enough to protect him whilst needing him.
To go more into depth on this. Karn works because we curve perfectly into him, and he either gives you discard or removal that gets around protection. He also can help break stalemates if it comes up.
Also in activating his last ability (if you end up doing so), any creature you have can attack that turn as Karn puts it into play before the new game even begins... so yea, ending the new game with your opponent at 5 and your still at 20... just. simply. evil.
I have tested it against Scapeshift and RUG Delver. It total dismantled the decks.
As work the Sundering titan combo, would this not be more efficient its 1 mana less cost, buts gets rid of every land and anything they have.
True, I don't run the Sundering Titan combo personally, just the Titan (which I feel should be in the main over a wurmcoil it pushes Jund that much further in your favor same for Pod decks), but the advantage to Prismatic Omen is not relying on cantrip artifacts or Grove for colored sources and Omen can be cast without Tron active, but a one sided Obliterate is quite fun
I also really like Explore in R/G Tron I have gotten games where I have gotten turn 2 Tron into turn 3 Sundering Titan blowing up all my opponents lands, I am probably cutting the Battlesphere for another Titan
On another note has anyone tested the Twin match-up in depth? I don't own the pieces to Twin (yet missing Pestermites and Kikis) and I am not entirely sure how to approach it, I know what to board, but game 1 seems like turn 3 Karn eat a land, untap Sundering Titan another land, etc
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
Twin is a hard matchup, because they usually just hold onto the combo until they got it. Our best chance is Combust. Or destroying their lands like you states above.
Twin is a hard matchup, because they usually just hold onto the combo until they got it. Our best chance is Combust. Or destroying their lands like you states above.
Sideboard out pyroclasm but keep 4 oblivion stone main. They can't combo with that in play lol. I don't find this a hard matchup since you bring in nature's claim and combust. You can't really lose....
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Legacy Decks:
Elves
Loam Depths
Goblin Stompy
Kobold Aggro
GB Nic Fit
Pod Nic Fit
12 Post
Pattern Combo
Squirrel Stompy
Modern Decks:
Amulet of Vigor Combo
Restore Balance
Cascade Swans
Mono U Tron
Through the Breach
Elves
Mono Red Control
Tooth and Nail Tron
Leviathans
My board is not built to beat the mirror at all. At most, I'll shove in the Wurmcoil and Batterskull and board out Pyroclasm. Maybe I'll get in Slaughter Games if I'm feeling lucky (boarding out the rest of the Pyroclasms, maybe O. Stone?) and think I can take out opposing Emrakul/Karn/Ulamog/etc.
Game 1 against Tron, I make Karn and Ulamog fire away at Tron pieces.
Is it possible to put in the primer what cards to take out in each matchup? I've heard both sides of karn being good and bad in the Jund matchup. Some clarity on taking things out would be awesome!
Infect: Horrible + Spellskite, + Melira, Sylvok Outcast, + Rule of Law, + Sudden Shock. Be prepared to loose game one most of the time to infect. Post-sideboard we stand a chance. You want to find that spellskite, if we get it out, it will stop infect in their tracks, stealing all their buffs. Other than that you want to get rid of their creatures as fast as possible (Pyroclasm, Sudden Shock). If we can control their creatures, and stop their buffs, we win.
I'm quite unsure why Chalice of the Void wasn't even included in the sideboard options. It hoses 2 of our worst matchups, INFECT and STORM
Here are the best Chalice of the Void conditions
vs Infect
- CoTV for 1 stops 26-30 of their cards (and all of their pump spells included)
vs Storm
- CoTV set to 2 cripples them as majority of their ritual effects and manamorphose cost 2 Mana and even their primary win condition (Grapeshot)
Is it possible to put in the primer what cards to take out in each matchup? I've heard both sides of karn being good and bad in the Jund matchup. Some clarity on taking things out would be awesome!
Thanks for the suggestions, once we get the first part of the match ups done. We will add this feature.
I'm quite unsure why Chalice of the Void wasn't even included in the sideboard options. It hoses 2 of our worst matchups, INFECT and STORM
Here are the best Chalice of the Void conditions
vs Infect
- CoTV for 1 stops 26-30 of their cards (and all of their pump spells included)
vs Storm
- CoTV set to 2 cripples them as majority of their ritual effects and manamorphose cost 2 Mana and even their primary win condition (Grapeshot)
I will add it tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion.
I actually like to run more Wurmcoils, maybe a Batterskull, and an Ulamog against Jund. That way I'm getting out more threats and all of those have value - Batterskull has to eat artifact removal and not creature removal, the wurmcoils will always spit out two tokens, and Ulamog is immune to most of Jund's creature removal (that, and it is a lot cheaper than Emrakul).
I'm by no means a pro, but this is generally what I tend to do when playing against jund. Karn is definitely good to keep in that matchup.
So why is Tron so on the downlow these days? Not seeming to have any top placing at GPs and such, but it seems like it's a really good deck with its better MUs being some of the more popular decks. Reading through here, it looks like you guys have also solved a lot of the worse match ups. I'm desperately trying to find a modern deck to build and learn by my PTQ in March. Tron greatly interests me.
So why is Tron so on the downlow these days? Not seeming to have any top placing at GPs and such, but it seems like it's a really good deck with its better MUs being some of the more popular decks. Reading through here, it looks like you guys have also solved a lot of the worse match ups. I'm desperately trying to find a modern deck to build and learn by my PTQ in March. Tron greatly interests me.
It actually has been doing fairly well recently since your Jund Match-Up is highly in your favor, Scapeshift is where you experience problems and Twin
I have a PTQ in January, Im thinking of playing G/R TRON; I need to do more research into how its faring at major tourneys and such. But Ill keep my eye on this thread and post my list, though I dont feel it is qiuet ready now.
Yeah I'm a little sketchy on committing to it, but I really like the way Tron plays. I wanna get the cards before Tron sees success at a GP again and the prices skyrocket.
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In this deck your not to worried about protecting him, usually you use him for what ever you need. That being either for targeted destruction or discard.
Most decks rune Nature's Claim in sb which can handle Blood Moon quite easily. I haven't seen to many with K Grip in board.
Claim works as well, as does Seal Of Primordium, K Grip and Blood Moon effectively come down the same turn, the advantage to grip is not being counterable which is relevant vs the WUR Delver variant that sometimes runs Blood Moon in the board
As for Karn you are not really protecting him, usually he is a turn 3 super Vindicate, or turn 3 Night Terrors, if you untap with Karn active you have probably won
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
4 Vandalblast
2 Hurkyl's Recall
In my play testing with this it has done some amazing things. Let me know what you guys think.
To go more into depth on this. Karn works because we curve perfectly into him, and he either gives you discard or removal that gets around protection. He also can help break stalemates if it comes up.
Also in activating his last ability (if you end up doing so), any creature you have can attack that turn as Karn puts it into play before the new game even begins... so yea, ending the new game with your opponent at 5 and your still at 20... just. simply. evil.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyAgreed this sounds great, but I prefer Prismatic Omen + Sundering Titan as wonky fun combos with this deck
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyI have tested it against Scapeshift and RUG Delver. It total dismantled the decks.
As work the Sundering titan combo, would this not be more efficient its 1 mana less cost, buts gets rid of every land and anything they have.
True, I don't run the Sundering Titan combo personally, just the Titan (which I feel should be in the main over a wurmcoil it pushes Jund that much further in your favor same for Pod decks), but the advantage to Prismatic Omen is not relying on cantrip artifacts or Grove for colored sources and Omen can be cast without Tron active, but a one sided Obliterate is quite fun
I also really like Explore in R/G Tron I have gotten games where I have gotten turn 2 Tron into turn 3 Sundering Titan blowing up all my opponents lands, I am probably cutting the Battlesphere for another Titan
On another note has anyone tested the Twin match-up in depth? I don't own the pieces to Twin (yet missing Pestermites and Kikis) and I am not entirely sure how to approach it, I know what to board, but game 1 seems like turn 3 Karn eat a land, untap Sundering Titan another land, etc
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
Sideboard out pyroclasm but keep 4 oblivion stone main. They can't combo with that in play lol. I don't find this a hard matchup since you bring in nature's claim and combust. You can't really lose....
Elves
Loam Depths
Goblin Stompy
Kobold Aggro
GB Nic Fit
Pod Nic Fit
12 Post
Pattern Combo
Squirrel Stompy
Amulet of Vigor Combo
Restore Balance
Cascade Swans
Mono U Tron
Through the Breach
Elves
Mono Red Control
Tooth and Nail Tron
Leviathans
Krenko Combo
Jaya LD
Zirilan Dragons
Omnath
I bring in Wurmcoil, Batterskull, and Timely Reinforcements against RDW.
My board is not built to beat the mirror at all. At most, I'll shove in the Wurmcoil and Batterskull and board out Pyroclasm. Maybe I'll get in Slaughter Games if I'm feeling lucky (boarding out the rest of the Pyroclasms, maybe O. Stone?) and think I can take out opposing Emrakul/Karn/Ulamog/etc.
Game 1 against Tron, I make Karn and Ulamog fire away at Tron pieces.
I'm quite unsure why Chalice of the Void wasn't even included in the sideboard options. It hoses 2 of our worst matchups, INFECT and STORM
Here are the best Chalice of the Void conditions
vs Infect
- CoTV for 1 stops 26-30 of their cards (and all of their pump spells included)
vs Storm
- CoTV set to 2 cripples them as majority of their ritual effects and manamorphose cost 2 Mana and even their primary win condition (Grapeshot)
Thanks for the suggestions, once we get the first part of the match ups done. We will add this feature.
I will add it tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion.
I'm by no means a pro, but this is generally what I tend to do when playing against jund. Karn is definitely good to keep in that matchup.
:symr:RG Karn Tron:symg:
:symu:UR Storm:symr:
It actually has been doing fairly well recently since your Jund Match-Up is highly in your favor, Scapeshift is where you experience problems and Twin
Exactly
I would build the deck on MTGO, but Karn's and Grove's are
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
Yeah I'm a little sketchy on committing to it, but I really like the way Tron plays. I wanna get the cards before Tron sees success at a GP again and the prices skyrocket.