With gitaxian probe and golgari grave-troll gone I expect that more decks such as Bant Eldrazi and Titan Shift/Titan valakut get more popular. Both of these matches can be decently hard, how do you guys see re-configuring sideboard slots to beat these matches?
Wait, Bant Eldrazi is a hard matchup? I'll admit I haven't played against it much, but I was under the impression it was seen as a good one for us.
Titan Shift is a major pain, though. Slaughter Games can be powerful, but it requires a double splash and you can still lose if you name the wrong card (it was more effective against RUG Scapeshift). Maybe it's time to reconsider Leyline of Sanctity, especially now that so many builds are running White now?
Ok, I've been playing Tron since Modern started, and I've been playing Bant Eldrazi for most of a year.... It's an even matchup in my opinion.
Bant can't make use of obvious cards, we can't either with Ugin. However, Bant Eldrazi can turn 2 TKS away wincons. Bant Eldrazi can drop a turn 2 Stony Silence or Chalice, which shuts down a good part of the deck. But in all seriousness, it's a rough matchup, and I give either side even odds to win. They need less resources to actually beat Tron.
Also, Bant Eldrazi runs blue and is notorious for casting negates, spell pierce, and other spells too.
If infect and deaths shadow have taken a hit in terms of speed, aren't we better generally going back to RG tron, and covering our bases with pyroclasm again?
If those decks are a little slower on average to close out a game, we can use pyroclasm to sweep any turn 1 or 2 plays, and rely more favourably on o-stone to get us there in the mid-game. Pyro was never meant to be our ultimate sweeper, just something to get us through the first couple of turns against highly aggressive weenie decks. I think it still does that in the majority of situations, right?
Other considerations:
I've been having enormous consistency issues in terms of finding a game-winning bomb once the mana starts flowing. As such, I decided to take a leaf out of a slightly older build of the deck when it was tier 1 and run 3 ulamog, in order to draw them more frequently. This has meant dropping a world breaker down to 1 but i'm fine with that, the card has never impressed me whenever I cast it.
So yeah; witu bant Eldrazi take a nosedive in meta share, aggressive decks losing some currency and who knows what filling the gap, is plain old RG tron better? I'm assuming that most spikey players will have dumped dredge at this point, to avoid playing a nerfed version of a once-great deck.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
If infect and deaths shadow have taken a hit in terms of speed, aren't we better generally going back to RG tron, and covering our bases with pyroclasm again?
If those decks are a little slower on average to close out a game, we can use pyroclasm to sweep any turn 1 or 2 plays, and rely more favourably on o-stone to get us there in the mid-game. Pyro was never meant to be our ultimate sweeper, just something to get us through the first couple of turns against highly aggressive weenie decks. I think it still does that in the majority of situations, right?
Other considerations:
I've been having enormous consistency issues in terms of finding a game-winning bomb once the mana starts flowing. As such, I decided to take a leaf out of a slightly older build of the deck when it was tier 1 and run 3 ulamog, in order to draw them more frequently. This has meant dropping a world breaker down to 1 but i'm fine with that, the card has never impressed me whenever I cast it.
So yeah; witu bant Eldrazi take a nosedive in meta share, aggressive decks losing some currency and who knows what filling the gap, is plain old RG tron better? I'm assuming that most spikey players will have dumped dredge at this point, to avoid playing a nerfed version of a once-great deck.
I personally dropped Clasm for Bolt and/or Spout long time ago and never come back. Red is really good, but Black looks promising, specially with SB cards we can add to fight the combo decks we fear.
But ofc, that is just my opinion.
If infect and deaths shadow have taken a hit in terms of speed, aren't we better generally going back to RG tron, and covering our bases with pyroclasm again?
If those decks are a little slower on average to close out a game, we can use pyroclasm to sweep any turn 1 or 2 plays, and rely more favourably on o-stone to get us there in the mid-game. Pyro was never meant to be our ultimate sweeper, just something to get us through the first couple of turns against highly aggressive weenie decks. I think it still does that in the majority of situations, right?
Other considerations:
I've been having enormous consistency issues in terms of finding a game-winning bomb once the mana starts flowing. As such, I decided to take a leaf out of a slightly older build of the deck when it was tier 1 and run 3 ulamog, in order to draw them more frequently. This has meant dropping a world breaker down to 1 but i'm fine with that, the card has never impressed me whenever I cast it.
So yeah; witu bant Eldrazi take a nosedive in meta share, aggressive decks losing some currency and who knows what filling the gap, is plain old RG tron better? I'm assuming that most spikey players will have dumped dredge at this point, to avoid playing a nerfed version of a once-great deck.
I personally dropped Clasm for Bolt and/or Spout long time ago and never come back. Red is really good, but Black looks promising, specially with SB cards we can add to fight the combo decks we fear.
But ofc, that is just my opinion.
So in terms of black (which does excite me), what 4-of would we run maindeck in order to deal with quick starts? Collective brutality does hit cards in hand which is a nice bonus but in terms of creatures it has the same issues, only worse because it only hits one target. Out of the two, pyroclasm is better.
If we are talking about fatal push, it's very similar to path to exile, but better in the early game (I honestly never liked path in tron because you want your coloured removal to be your earliest interaction, to allow you to stabilise with o-stone, and path ramps your opponent) so I can see it working. We'll get the trigger plenty because of all the chromatics and map etc. Seems OK to me.
Thing is, on turn two, what is bolting a single creature going to achieve in terms of drawing the game out, when things like mutagenic growth exist, and what you're weak against is players going wide. The whole point of the deck running pyroclasm for years was that it covered an early weakness, and did it very well. It's a 2+ for 1, against the decks that we care about, and anything else doesn't really matter that much, because o-stone gets us there. Pyroclasm was never meant to be the main sweeper of the deck.
Things that pyroclasm hits which I personally think we should care about beating:
Eidolon of the great revel
Goblin guide
Monastery swiftspear
Young pyromancer (and tokens)
Wild nacatl (if you're on the play and dropping pyro on curve)
Snapcaster mage
Every elf
Nearly every merfolk (if played early enough)
Tarmogoyf (if running relic of progenitus)
Bob
Delver of secrets
Vendilion clique
Nearly everything in affinity
Nearly everything in infect
Nearly every kind of token you see in modern
Thalia/leonin arbiter/flickerwisp
Basically the whole kiki-chord deck
Every mana dork that's played in modern
Narcomoeba/bloodghast (caveat here is obvious but it's a good staller)
That's a very long list which isn't complete, and includes a huge swathe of tier 1 and 2. Many notable don't-hits become hits when you have 2 pyros in your hand (which happens fairly often). E.g. Wild nacatl after turn 2, or thought-knot seer.
The only notable definite-misses and virtual misses from the most played early creatures are:
Reality smasher
Tasigur
Gurmag angler
Death's shadow (most of the time)
Primeval titan
Prized amalgam
Anything else is slow enough that o-stone deals with it (or karn, or ugin). Right?
Anyway, without a million prized amalgam running around, and with bant Eldrazi losing 5% of its metagame share in the last month or two, I feel like pyroclasm represents the statistically best option in terms of dealing with early threats, in a 2-for-1 capacity, allowing you to more reliably transition into your actual control cards like o-stone. I can see the draw for cards like firespout, as it fills a similar niche, but being a turn slower can allow decks to put their defenses up and deal with a sweeper more effectively. If you are on the draw, killing their turn 1 and 2 plays with a single spell is what allows you to get there and win the game. Waiting for them to have a third turn, hold up some interaction, or maybe even start disrupting you, doesn't fit with what the pyroclasm slot is actually for.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I haven't had much problems against Bant Eldrazi with my RG list, i could usually stabilize quite well against them. It helped to play bolts to remove Nobles and such, and it kills the white eldrazi. Sometimes they've been stuck with eldrazi temples and the white eldrazi in hand plus nobles and stirrings (but that happens to me as well like last night, had my three bolts and sideboarded pyros in hand but no Groves in play and i never drew sphere's/stars).
EDIT:
And i agree with purklefluff, i don't really like my second Worldbreaker, gonna fit an Emrakul in its place. I goldfished with the deck and i managed to ger her down to a casting cost of 9 pretty frequently.
So im gonna run this as my creature base:
2 Newlamog
1 Emrakul, the promised End
1 world breaker
3 wurmcoil engine
1 Conduit of Ruin
Then as Planeswalkers im gonna run the usual:
4 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
How many threats do you guys usually run? Atm i have 13 of them and something i've noticed lately is that we don't have de shuffle back into library triggers anymore in our decks and tutoring up the threats are more difficult. Is it enough with 13?
Its been working so far for me, but im just wondering.
EDIT: Or maybe just add an additional Ugin instead of worldbreaker Ulamog/Emrakul?
Its in the sweetspot of between them ^ and its another wrath and wincon. But i do love the mostly guaranteed value of the cast triggers.
I've seen some tron lists only run a single ugin. How important overall is ugin in the current meta game? Is there any justification to run less than 2?
If infect and deaths shadow have taken a hit in terms of speed, aren't we better generally going back to RG tron, and covering our bases with pyroclasm again?
If those decks are a little slower on average to close out a game, we can use pyroclasm to sweep any turn 1 or 2 plays, and rely more favourably on o-stone to get us there in the mid-game. Pyro was never meant to be our ultimate sweeper, just something to get us through the first couple of turns against highly aggressive weenie decks. I think it still does that in the majority of situations, right?
Other considerations:
I've been having enormous consistency issues in terms of finding a game-winning bomb once the mana starts flowing. As such, I decided to take a leaf out of a slightly older build of the deck when it was tier 1 and run 3 ulamog, in order to draw them more frequently. This has meant dropping a world breaker down to 1 but i'm fine with that, the card has never impressed me whenever I cast it.
So yeah; witu bant Eldrazi take a nosedive in meta share, aggressive decks losing some currency and who knows what filling the gap, is plain old RG tron better? I'm assuming that most spikey players will have dumped dredge at this point, to avoid playing a nerfed version of a once-great deck.
In the games I've played with GW I have also noticed the problem getting any threat once the mana starts flowing (damn Eye ban). I think maybe upping a creature may be better as it can also be found off of sanctum as well. Ugin is amazing and can be gotten off stirrings, but that small % point from sanctum may give a creature the edge.
Also, with Push coming into the format, I'm going to be switching to GB. Brutality is insane and push kills TKS without netting them a land, while having similar anti-creature utility as bolt
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EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
So spot removal in tron is kind of a recent trend. I don't think it fits with the core of what the deck needs, insofar as we're a ramp deck. This means maybe a third of our deck is "do nothing", and many of our powerful sweepers require tron to be active in the first instance, so whatever fast interaction we have is generally limited to a couple of, or maybe just one card, for our opponent's whole hand. With this, we must stall out a fast go-wide opponent until o-stone comes online. can't really function with one-for-ones. This is why pyroclasm was the only answer for years and why I still keep going back when the metagame allows it (such as maybe now after the bans). It's there to plug a specific weakness in the deck and it's the best at what it does.
It's very metagame dependant. Generally when the metagame says pyroclasm is dead in 80% of game 1s then I tend to swap to a different deck rather than try to nurse tron forward with spot removal. Now it looks like pyroclasm is back on top, I'm interested in digging out my old favourite deck lol.
So spot removal in tron is kind of a recent trend. I don't think it fits with the core of what the deck needs, insofar as we're a ramp deck. This means maybe a third of our deck is "do nothing", and many of our powerful sweepers require tron to be active in the first instance, so whatever fast interaction we have is generally limited to a couple of, or maybe just one card, for our opponent's whole hand. With this, we must stall out a fast go-wide opponent until o-stone comes online. can't really function with one-for-ones. This is why pyroclasm was the only answer for years and why I still keep going back when the metagame allows it (such as maybe now after the bans). It's there to plug a specific weakness in the deck and it's the best at what it does.
It's very metagame dependant. Generally when the metagame says pyroclasm is dead in 80% of game 1s then I tend to swap to a different deck rather than try to nurse tron forward with spot removal. Now it looks like pyroclasm is back on top, I'm interested in digging out my old favourite deck lol.
@purklefluff
It was just that, most threats i faced had 3 toughness and pyro did almost nothing, and bolt can kill lilianas or go to the face. I still used to run 1 pyro main and then i swapped for firespout, then went back to 1 pyro instead because it does take care of birds and nobles. I tried out bolt and it has been working well but i understand what you mean, and i chose to stick to GR Tron for the time being.
@Dizdo
For me, i cut down to 1 because my meta was too fast at the time and i played more spellskites/Thoughtknot Seers to block and such, taking out problematic cards. Having 1 ugin just stuck with me since i don't know what to cut for it, but im still thinking if i should add that second ugin.
im gonna try GB Tron, same land packages and swapping with GB mana.
I will try 3 fatal push, 3 collective brutality (still thinking and testing), 3 ostone main.. my idea is to increase spot removal against aggro, infect and pump my creature decks. the collective brutality concept from Joe's build helps combo matchup specially ad nauseum, though i might put it to SB and add relics main.
i will also try 1 planar bridge and add 1 old emmy and cut 1 ulamog and 1 world breaker, since the bridge is like an additional copy. let me see how it works and consistency.
any thoughts?
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MODERN
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
Guys, I think planar bridge is a turning point for this deck. If you slam it on turn three against most decks in modern, you are winning that game. First you fetch ugin, sweep the board, then you fetch Emrakul EoT and crunch in for 15 with annihilator. Right? If they aren't putting on any pressure, just go straight for Emrakul in your opponent's end step. That's a very fast and convincing win, with multiple avenues/options to enable sweeping the board or taking control in another fashion. You could even just chain wurmcoil engines like we used to be able to do, right? But from turn 4 onwards that's faster than we used to be able to manage.
The ability to run Emrakul again is not to be understated, as well. There aren't many holes you can find yourself in which Emrakul won't dig you out of - and at instant speed, no less! Wow!
I'm going to start with either 3 or 4 maindeck bridges and cut back until I have the right number, but I'm expecting 3 to be where it's at.
Guys, I think planar bridge is a turning point for this deck. If you slam it on turn three against most decks in modern, you are winning that game. First you fetch ugin, sweep the board, then you fetch Emrakul EoT and crunch in for 15 with annihilator. Right? If they aren't putting on any pressure, just go straight for Emrakul in your opponent's end step. That's a very fast and convincing win, with multiple avenues/options to enable sweeping the board or taking control in another fashion. You could even just chain wurmcoil engines like we used to be able to do, right? But from turn 4 onwards that's faster than we used to be able to manage.
The ability to run Emrakul again is not to be understated, as well. There aren't many holes you can find yourself in which Emrakul won't dig you out of - and at instant speed, no less! Wow!
I'm going to start with either 3 or 4 maindeck bridges and cut back until I have the right number, but I'm expecting 3 to be where it's at.
I am pretty excited for the card too. I hate losing games that I would have won if Eye of Ugin was still legal.
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Modern RGTron UGInfect URStorm WUBRAd Nauseam BRGrishoalbrand URGScapeshift WBGAbzan Company WUBRGAmulet Titan BRGLiving End WGBogles
So I took GW Tron to my LGS for modern tonight (this exact list). I've just put it together and don't usually play modern at my store (I'm at the store every week but I mainly play modern online)so I didn't know the meta going in. I was wondering about the colour to play alongside green. Red, black or white? I stuck with white because of the sideboard options.
I had these match ups:
Match 1 vs Dredge
Game 1 on the play, he did lots of the things that dredge does, I played t3 wurmcoil engine, t4 world breaker which kept his creatures at bay. Wiped his board with o stone and exiled his graveyard with relic. Game over.
Game 2 on the draw I went t2 rest in peace, t3 wurmcoil, t4 Karn for the win.
Match 2 vs Lantern Control
Game 1 on the play T3 Karn exile a land and he scooped next turn.
Game 2 on the draw was a more drawn out game with him controlling my library a bit more, he had a bridge keeping my wurmcoil and world breaker at bay. I played Ulamog, fetched another with sanctum and blew up his bridge. He scooped the next turn.
Match 3 vs Grixis Control
Game 1
On the draw, played a T3 Wurmcoil to eat a counter then played Karn on T4 for the win.
Game 2 On the draw I stumbled and got hit by crumble to dust. Died to snap casters and GDD.
Game 3 on the play I never got tron. Attempted to cast Karn for the full 7 mana on t8 but it eat a cryptic command and I died to bolt snap bolt.
Match 4 vs Infect
Game 1
On the play I played a T4 Ugin and he scooped.
Game 2
On the draw I played T3 Karn but he had the blossoming defence and killed me next turn.
Game 3
On the play he didn't draw the pump spells after a mull to six, I wiped his board with o stone on t4 then played ulamog t5 to exile his creature and a land, to which he scooped.
So I went 3-1 which I'm quite happy with. I feel like I got a little unlucky in game 3 vs Grixis but a bit lucky in game 3 vs infect so it balanced out.
I feel like in my meta, white is definitely the way to go but I like that it's quite easy to change to another colour if the meta shifts.
A lot of the people at my store were saying that they think if Tron becomes dominant now that the meta is going to slow down, then something will be banned from the deck. Most suggesting Ugin. What do you guys think?
The key difference being that Eye of Ugin is a land we cold fetch for reliably, whereas Planar Bridge is an artifact we have to be lucky enough to hit. Playing other potential blanks into faster metas like Emmy 1.0 for the hope of a gross payoff is a serious trap. At least another immediate threat instead of the Bridge could both trigger and be searched for by a Sanctum.
Guys, I think planar bridge is a turning point for this deck. If you slam it on turn three against most decks in modern, you are winning that game. First you fetch ugin, sweep the board, then you fetch Emrakul EoT and crunch in for 15 with annihilator. Right? If they aren't putting on any pressure, just go straight for Emrakul in your opponent's end step. That's a very fast and convincing win, with multiple avenues/options to enable sweeping the board or taking control in another fashion. You could even just chain wurmcoil engines like we used to be able to do, right? But from turn 4 onwards that's faster than we used to be able to manage.
The ability to run Emrakul again is not to be understated, as well. There aren't many holes you can find yourself in which Emrakul won't dig you out of - and at instant speed, no less! Wow!
I'm going to start with either 3 or 4 maindeck bridges and cut back until I have the right number, but I'm expecting 3 to be where it's at.
3 or 4 is too much, we cant have multiples in our starting hand and we only need 1 in play. I think the max is 2 but needs to be tested. the immediate problem i see is that if we play that on turn 3, play land and pass turn 4, tutor end of villain turn 4 and attack on turn 5... we pretty much gave them 2 turns which in a fast meta could be fatal.
and one more thing i forgot, if emmy is in our hand we cant tutor and play it and no way to discard it.
Guys, I think planar bridge is a turning point for this deck. If you slam it on turn three against most decks in modern, you are winning that game. First you fetch ugin, sweep the board, then you fetch Emrakul EoT and crunch in for 15 with annihilator. Right? If they aren't putting on any pressure, just go straight for Emrakul in your opponent's end step. That's a very fast and convincing win, with multiple avenues/options to enable sweeping the board or taking control in another fashion. You could even just chain wurmcoil engines like we used to be able to do, right? But from turn 4 onwards that's faster than we used to be able to manage.
The ability to run Emrakul again is not to be understated, as well. There aren't many holes you can find yourself in which Emrakul won't dig you out of - and at instant speed, no less! Wow!
I'm going to start with either 3 or 4 maindeck bridges and cut back until I have the right number, but I'm expecting 3 to be where it's at.
3 or 4 is too much, we cant have multiples in our starting hand and we only need 1 in play. I think the max is 2 but needs to be tested. the immediate problem i see is that if we play that on turn 3, play land and pass turn 4, tutor end of villain turn 4 and attack on turn 5... we pretty much gave them 2 turns which in a fast meta could be fatal.
and one more thing i forgot, if emmy is in our hand we cant tutor and play it and no way to discard it.
So maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, I apologise.
If you're under pressure and have slammed a turn 3 bridge, you just use it to get (and activate) an Ugin on turn 4, which is just as quick as normal. Then you are free to chain bombs or just go for Emrakul at your leisure. There would be no reason to hamstring yourself by mindlessly going for Emrakul in the face of some quick pressure. Oh wait, that's exactly what I said before..... I'm not sure what you meant. Uhm. Don't play badly? Pass. You'll have to tell me the answer lol
I think hitting a turn 3 bridge is more game-winning than every other non-karn play in the deck, it's also basically a turn 4 ugin, right? Or just a surprise Emrakul as a blocker. Or wurmcoil at instant speed against aggro. Honestly it seems really good.
Oh and if you hit turn 3 bridge but draw Emrakul you can just bridge out an Ugin. Karn, Ulamog or wurmcoil, or o-stone, OR A LAND every single turn until you can cast Emrakul as normal, right?
The only downside is that it opens you up to artifact removal. Otherwise it would appear to be the most powerful tron card printed for some time.
I have not read the previous chatter about Bridge but here's my 2 cents:
Bridge allows you to win the game on Turn 4 if you play it in Turn 3. Even if it only gets you a Karn or Ugin it's still bonkers. It basically increases the count of every permanent in the deck by X where X is the amount of Bridges you play. Heck you can even use it to keep Tron online in response to a GQ.
I will be going to a modern tournament this sunday and test this bridge in the new meta. My list will look like this or similar to this:
Something along these lines. I will keep relic in the board due to Goyf decks and i don't think dredge is as dead as everyone thinks. Also GQ Surgical and Fulminator Surgical is quite popular recently.
The Geier Reach Sanitarium is in there to avoid bricking with Emrakul in hand and a Bridge on the board. Discarding her to shuffle the GY back in can be quite dece.
2 Newlamog to have playable bombs without Bridge on the board. I was thinking about cutting down to one because there is no Sanctum in my list, that's what i am still thinking about. Maybe add a 3rd Wurmcoil to the list for survivability.
On a sidenote i also thought about going RG with this build again to have access to Pyroclasm. That needs some more testing though.
Played some RG tron yesterday at a local tournament. Have to say I feel I cracked the code, so far as inconsistency goes (had ongoing issues with the deck since the eye of ugin ban).
The answer was to run 3 ulamog, drop down to 1 world breaker, and run the full 4 o-stone.
I also decided to try running 4 pyroclasm again and it did wonders against Affinity and death&taxes, and tokens, and delver (and jund, with relic)
Fairly standard I'm sure you'll agree. It's got game against most stuff. Certainly did well against Affinity.
Speaking of affinity, I'm expecting an uptick in robots over the next few weeks. Going wide is a better defense against the new favourite spot removal than trying to get through with infect creatures.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I have not read the previous chatter about Bridge but here's my 2 cents:
Bridge allows you to win the game on Turn 4 if you play it in Turn 3. Even if it only gets you a Karn or Ugin it's still bonkers. It basically increases the count of every permanent in the deck by X where X is the amount of Bridges you play. Heck you can even use it to keep Tron online in response to a GQ.
I will be going to a modern tournament this sunday and test this bridge in the new meta. My list will look like this or similar to this:
Something along these lines. I will keep relic in the board due to Goyf decks and i don't think dredge is as dead as everyone thinks. Also GQ Surgical and Fulminator Surgical is quite popular recently.
The Geier Reach Sanitarium is in there to avoid bricking with Emrakul in hand and a Bridge on the board. Discarding her to shuffle the GY back in can be quite dece.
2 Newlamog to have playable bombs without Bridge on the board. I was thinking about cutting down to one because there is no Sanctum in my list, that's what i am still thinking about. Maybe add a 3rd Wurmcoil to the list for survivability.
On a sidenote i also thought about going RG with this build again to have access to Pyroclasm. That needs some more testing though.
I think planar bridge is a win-more card. I played RG tron for a year or so.
I think a threat would be better like more wurmcoil engine. leonin bladetrap is also a removal option.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
I have not read the previous chatter about Bridge but here's my 2 cents:
Bridge allows you to win the game on Turn 4 if you play it in Turn 3. Even if it only gets you a Karn or Ugin it's still bonkers. It basically increases the count of every permanent in the deck by X where X is the amount of Bridges you play. Heck you can even use it to keep Tron online in response to a GQ.
I will be going to a modern tournament this sunday and test this bridge in the new meta. My list will look like this or similar to this:
Something along these lines. I will keep relic in the board due to Goyf decks and i don't think dredge is as dead as everyone thinks. Also GQ Surgical and Fulminator Surgical is quite popular recently.
The Geier Reach Sanitarium is in there to avoid bricking with Emrakul in hand and a Bridge on the board. Discarding her to shuffle the GY back in can be quite dece.
2 Newlamog to have playable bombs without Bridge on the board. I was thinking about cutting down to one because there is no Sanctum in my list, that's what i am still thinking about. Maybe add a 3rd Wurmcoil to the list for survivability.
On a sidenote i also thought about going RG with this build again to have access to Pyroclasm. That needs some more testing though.
I think planar bridge is a win-more card. I played RG tron for a year or so.
I think a threat would be better like more [card]wurmcoil engine]/card]. leonin bladetrap is also a removal option.
Think about it though: if you play bridge on turn 3 (when 40 cards in the deck are lands and ways to get them into play, it seems fair to assume that you can make this play fairly often), you have turn 4 ugin perfectly on curve no matter where it is in your deck, turn 4 wurmcoil if you need it, turn 4 Emrakul as an instant-speed blocker and then win on the backswing, or whatever you need. It can also get a tron land (it gets lands as well, people have missed this) in response to a ghost quarter or it can fetch your ghost quarter at instant speed to kill an inkmoth nexus. The amount of play to it is insane.
I don't see how it's a win-more card, when it can be literally anything you need in the most direct toolbox way I've seen in a card since chord of calling. In any situation (with tron online) bridge becomes the perfect avenue to victory in exactly the order you want, at instant speed and uncounterable, rather than relying on topdecks. It also (also!) allows you to keep threats stocked in your hand while tutoring ones from your library, so that if your opponent can deal with them, you just play out what's in your hand.
Seriously, history should have taught us that a card which is effectively any threat you want it to be, is better than just loading up on different threats and hoping to draw the right ones in the right order.
The card has issues, it gets hit by stony silence, and kolaghans command. But then you just side it out in those matchups.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
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Ok, I've been playing Tron since Modern started, and I've been playing Bant Eldrazi for most of a year.... It's an even matchup in my opinion.
Bant can't make use of obvious cards, we can't either with Ugin. However, Bant Eldrazi can turn 2 TKS away wincons. Bant Eldrazi can drop a turn 2 Stony Silence or Chalice, which shuts down a good part of the deck. But in all seriousness, it's a rough matchup, and I give either side even odds to win. They need less resources to actually beat Tron.
Also, Bant Eldrazi runs blue and is notorious for casting negates, spell pierce, and other spells too.
If those decks are a little slower on average to close out a game, we can use pyroclasm to sweep any turn 1 or 2 plays, and rely more favourably on o-stone to get us there in the mid-game. Pyro was never meant to be our ultimate sweeper, just something to get us through the first couple of turns against highly aggressive weenie decks. I think it still does that in the majority of situations, right?
Other considerations:
I've been having enormous consistency issues in terms of finding a game-winning bomb once the mana starts flowing. As such, I decided to take a leaf out of a slightly older build of the deck when it was tier 1 and run 3 ulamog, in order to draw them more frequently. This has meant dropping a world breaker down to 1 but i'm fine with that, the card has never impressed me whenever I cast it.
So yeah; witu bant Eldrazi take a nosedive in meta share, aggressive decks losing some currency and who knows what filling the gap, is plain old RG tron better? I'm assuming that most spikey players will have dumped dredge at this point, to avoid playing a nerfed version of a once-great deck.
Wild Nacatl, Kird Ape, Mutagenic Growth, Inkmoth Nexus are all still out there, also the new additions to the aggro decks, Narnam Renegade and Greenwheel Liberator are clasm proof too. Would be better to wait and see what is going to happen now with the new metta.
I personally dropped Clasm for Bolt and/or Spout long time ago and never come back. Red is really good, but Black looks promising, specially with SB cards we can add to fight the combo decks we fear.
But ofc, that is just my opinion.
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
So in terms of black (which does excite me), what 4-of would we run maindeck in order to deal with quick starts? Collective brutality does hit cards in hand which is a nice bonus but in terms of creatures it has the same issues, only worse because it only hits one target. Out of the two, pyroclasm is better.
If we are talking about fatal push, it's very similar to path to exile, but better in the early game (I honestly never liked path in tron because you want your coloured removal to be your earliest interaction, to allow you to stabilise with o-stone, and path ramps your opponent) so I can see it working. We'll get the trigger plenty because of all the chromatics and map etc. Seems OK to me.
Thing is, on turn two, what is bolting a single creature going to achieve in terms of drawing the game out, when things like mutagenic growth exist, and what you're weak against is players going wide. The whole point of the deck running pyroclasm for years was that it covered an early weakness, and did it very well. It's a 2+ for 1, against the decks that we care about, and anything else doesn't really matter that much, because o-stone gets us there. Pyroclasm was never meant to be the main sweeper of the deck.
Things that pyroclasm hits which I personally think we should care about beating:
Eidolon of the great revel
Goblin guide
Monastery swiftspear
Young pyromancer (and tokens)
Wild nacatl (if you're on the play and dropping pyro on curve)
Snapcaster mage
Every elf
Nearly every merfolk (if played early enough)
Tarmogoyf (if running relic of progenitus)
Bob
Delver of secrets
Vendilion clique
Nearly everything in affinity
Nearly everything in infect
Nearly every kind of token you see in modern
Thalia/leonin arbiter/flickerwisp
Basically the whole kiki-chord deck
Every mana dork that's played in modern
Narcomoeba/bloodghast (caveat here is obvious but it's a good staller)
That's a very long list which isn't complete, and includes a huge swathe of tier 1 and 2. Many notable don't-hits become hits when you have 2 pyros in your hand (which happens fairly often). E.g. Wild nacatl after turn 2, or thought-knot seer.
The only notable definite-misses and virtual misses from the most played early creatures are:
Reality smasher
Tasigur
Gurmag angler
Death's shadow (most of the time)
Primeval titan
Prized amalgam
Anything else is slow enough that o-stone deals with it (or karn, or ugin). Right?
Anyway, without a million prized amalgam running around, and with bant Eldrazi losing 5% of its metagame share in the last month or two, I feel like pyroclasm represents the statistically best option in terms of dealing with early threats, in a 2-for-1 capacity, allowing you to more reliably transition into your actual control cards like o-stone. I can see the draw for cards like firespout, as it fills a similar niche, but being a turn slower can allow decks to put their defenses up and deal with a sweeper more effectively. If you are on the draw, killing their turn 1 and 2 plays with a single spell is what allows you to get there and win the game. Waiting for them to have a third turn, hold up some interaction, or maybe even start disrupting you, doesn't fit with what the pyroclasm slot is actually for.
EDIT:
And i agree with purklefluff, i don't really like my second Worldbreaker, gonna fit an Emrakul in its place. I goldfished with the deck and i managed to ger her down to a casting cost of 9 pretty frequently.
So im gonna run this as my creature base:
2 Newlamog
1 Emrakul, the promised End
1 world breaker
3 wurmcoil engine
1 Conduit of Ruin
Then as Planeswalkers im gonna run the usual:
4 Karn Liberated
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
How many threats do you guys usually run? Atm i have 13 of them and something i've noticed lately is that we don't have de shuffle back into library triggers anymore in our decks and tutoring up the threats are more difficult. Is it enough with 13?
Its been working so far for me, but im just wondering.
EDIT: Or maybe just add an additional Ugin instead of worldbreaker Ulamog/Emrakul?
Its in the sweetspot of between them ^ and its another wrath and wincon. But i do love the mostly guaranteed value of the cast triggers.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
In the games I've played with GW I have also noticed the problem getting any threat once the mana starts flowing (damn Eye ban). I think maybe upping a creature may be better as it can also be found off of sanctum as well. Ugin is amazing and can be gotten off stirrings, but that small % point from sanctum may give a creature the edge.
Also, with Push coming into the format, I'm going to be switching to GB. Brutality is insane and push kills TKS without netting them a land, while having similar anti-creature utility as bolt
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
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RIP Twin
It's very metagame dependant. Generally when the metagame says pyroclasm is dead in 80% of game 1s then I tend to swap to a different deck rather than try to nurse tron forward with spot removal. Now it looks like pyroclasm is back on top, I'm interested in digging out my old favourite deck lol.
@purklefluff
It was just that, most threats i faced had 3 toughness and pyro did almost nothing, and bolt can kill lilianas or go to the face. I still used to run 1 pyro main and then i swapped for firespout, then went back to 1 pyro instead because it does take care of birds and nobles. I tried out bolt and it has been working well but i understand what you mean, and i chose to stick to GR Tron for the time being.
@Dizdo
For me, i cut down to 1 because my meta was too fast at the time and i played more spellskites/Thoughtknot Seers to block and such, taking out problematic cards. Having 1 ugin just stuck with me since i don't know what to cut for it, but im still thinking if i should add that second ugin.
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
im gonna try GB Tron, same land packages and swapping with GB mana.
I will try 3 fatal push, 3 collective brutality (still thinking and testing), 3 ostone main.. my idea is to increase spot removal against aggro, infect and pump my creature decks. the collective brutality concept from Joe's build helps combo matchup specially ad nauseum, though i might put it to SB and add relics main.
i will also try 1 planar bridge and add 1 old emmy and cut 1 ulamog and 1 world breaker, since the bridge is like an additional copy. let me see how it works and consistency.
any thoughts?
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
LEGACY
Turbo Depths
Big Eldrazi
The ability to run Emrakul again is not to be understated, as well. There aren't many holes you can find yourself in which Emrakul won't dig you out of - and at instant speed, no less! Wow!
I'm going to start with either 3 or 4 maindeck bridges and cut back until I have the right number, but I'm expecting 3 to be where it's at.
I am pretty excited for the card too. I hate losing games that I would have won if Eye of Ugin was still legal.
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
So I took GW Tron to my LGS for modern tonight (this exact list). I've just put it together and don't usually play modern at my store (I'm at the store every week but I mainly play modern online)so I didn't know the meta going in. I was wondering about the colour to play alongside green. Red, black or white? I stuck with white because of the sideboard options.
I had these match ups:
Match 1 vs Dredge
Game 1 on the play, he did lots of the things that dredge does, I played t3 wurmcoil engine, t4 world breaker which kept his creatures at bay. Wiped his board with o stone and exiled his graveyard with relic. Game over.
Game 2 on the draw I went t2 rest in peace, t3 wurmcoil, t4 Karn for the win.
Match 2 vs Lantern Control
Game 1 on the play T3 Karn exile a land and he scooped next turn.
Game 2 on the draw was a more drawn out game with him controlling my library a bit more, he had a bridge keeping my wurmcoil and world breaker at bay. I played Ulamog, fetched another with sanctum and blew up his bridge. He scooped the next turn.
Match 3 vs Grixis Control
Game 1
On the draw, played a T3 Wurmcoil to eat a counter then played Karn on T4 for the win.
Game 2 On the draw I stumbled and got hit by crumble to dust. Died to snap casters and GDD.
Game 3 on the play I never got tron. Attempted to cast Karn for the full 7 mana on t8 but it eat a cryptic command and I died to bolt snap bolt.
Match 4 vs Infect
Game 1
On the play I played a T4 Ugin and he scooped.
Game 2
On the draw I played T3 Karn but he had the blossoming defence and killed me next turn.
Game 3
On the play he didn't draw the pump spells after a mull to six, I wiped his board with o stone on t4 then played ulamog t5 to exile his creature and a land, to which he scooped.
So I went 3-1 which I'm quite happy with. I feel like I got a little unlucky in game 3 vs Grixis but a bit lucky in game 3 vs infect so it balanced out.
I feel like in my meta, white is definitely the way to go but I like that it's quite easy to change to another colour if the meta shifts.
A lot of the people at my store were saying that they think if Tron becomes dominant now that the meta is going to slow down, then something will be banned from the deck. Most suggesting Ugin. What do you guys think?
3 or 4 is too much, we cant have multiples in our starting hand and we only need 1 in play. I think the max is 2 but needs to be tested. the immediate problem i see is that if we play that on turn 3, play land and pass turn 4, tutor end of villain turn 4 and attack on turn 5... we pretty much gave them 2 turns which in a fast meta could be fatal.
and one more thing i forgot, if emmy is in our hand we cant tutor and play it and no way to discard it.
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
LEGACY
Turbo Depths
Big Eldrazi
So maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, I apologise.
If you're under pressure and have slammed a turn 3 bridge, you just use it to get (and activate) an Ugin on turn 4, which is just as quick as normal. Then you are free to chain bombs or just go for Emrakul at your leisure. There would be no reason to hamstring yourself by mindlessly going for Emrakul in the face of some quick pressure. Oh wait, that's exactly what I said before..... I'm not sure what you meant. Uhm. Don't play badly? Pass. You'll have to tell me the answer lol
I think hitting a turn 3 bridge is more game-winning than every other non-karn play in the deck, it's also basically a turn 4 ugin, right? Or just a surprise Emrakul as a blocker. Or wurmcoil at instant speed against aggro. Honestly it seems really good.
Oh and if you hit turn 3 bridge but draw Emrakul you can just bridge out an Ugin. Karn, Ulamog or wurmcoil, or o-stone, OR A LAND every single turn until you can cast Emrakul as normal, right?
The only downside is that it opens you up to artifact removal. Otherwise it would appear to be the most powerful tron card printed for some time.
Bridge allows you to win the game on Turn 4 if you play it in Turn 3. Even if it only gets you a Karn or Ugin it's still bonkers. It basically increases the count of every permanent in the deck by X where X is the amount of Bridges you play. Heck you can even use it to keep Tron online in response to a GQ.
I will be going to a modern tournament this sunday and test this bridge in the new meta. My list will look like this or similar to this:
2 Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Spellskite
3 Oblivion Stone
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Expedition map
2 Planar Bridge
4 karn Liberated
2 ugin, the spirit dragon
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
3 Razorverge Thicket
1 Brushland
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Spellskite
3 Warping Wail
3 Nature's Claim
3 Relic of Progenitus
Something along these lines. I will keep relic in the board due to Goyf decks and i don't think dredge is as dead as everyone thinks. Also GQ Surgical and Fulminator Surgical is quite popular recently.
The Geier Reach Sanitarium is in there to avoid bricking with Emrakul in hand and a Bridge on the board. Discarding her to shuffle the GY back in can be quite dece.
2 Newlamog to have playable bombs without Bridge on the board. I was thinking about cutting down to one because there is no Sanctum in my list, that's what i am still thinking about. Maybe add a 3rd Wurmcoil to the list for survivability.
On a sidenote i also thought about going RG with this build again to have access to Pyroclasm. That needs some more testing though.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
The answer was to run 3 ulamog, drop down to 1 world breaker, and run the full 4 o-stone.
I also decided to try running 4 pyroclasm again and it did wonders against Affinity and death&taxes, and tokens, and delver (and jund, with relic)
List is fairly straightforward:
2x ugin, the spirit dragon
2x wurmcoil engine
1x world breaker
3x ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
4x ancient stirrings
4x expedition map
4x sylvan scrying
4x chromatic star
4x chromatic sphere
4x Oblivion Stone
4x urza's tower
4x urza's mine
4x urza's power plant
2x forest
4x grove of the burnwillows
1x sanctum of ugin
1x ghost quarter
1x kozilek's return
2x pithing needle
2x relic of progenitus
2x boil (might not be a recommended choice but it wins games like no other)
3x Nature's Claim
2x thragtusk
1x spellskite
2x crumble to dust
Fairly standard I'm sure you'll agree. It's got game against most stuff. Certainly did well against Affinity.
Speaking of affinity, I'm expecting an uptick in robots over the next few weeks. Going wide is a better defense against the new favourite spot removal than trying to get through with infect creatures.
I think planar bridge is a win-more card. I played RG tron for a year or so.
I think a threat would be better like more wurmcoil engine.
leonin bladetrap is also a removal option.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Think about it though: if you play bridge on turn 3 (when 40 cards in the deck are lands and ways to get them into play, it seems fair to assume that you can make this play fairly often), you have turn 4 ugin perfectly on curve no matter where it is in your deck, turn 4 wurmcoil if you need it, turn 4 Emrakul as an instant-speed blocker and then win on the backswing, or whatever you need. It can also get a tron land (it gets lands as well, people have missed this) in response to a ghost quarter or it can fetch your ghost quarter at instant speed to kill an inkmoth nexus. The amount of play to it is insane.
I don't see how it's a win-more card, when it can be literally anything you need in the most direct toolbox way I've seen in a card since chord of calling. In any situation (with tron online) bridge becomes the perfect avenue to victory in exactly the order you want, at instant speed and uncounterable, rather than relying on topdecks. It also (also!) allows you to keep threats stocked in your hand while tutoring ones from your library, so that if your opponent can deal with them, you just play out what's in your hand.
Seriously, history should have taught us that a card which is effectively any threat you want it to be, is better than just loading up on different threats and hoping to draw the right ones in the right order.
The card has issues, it gets hit by stony silence, and kolaghans command. But then you just side it out in those matchups.