Hey guys, my buddy just pulled Ad Nauseum out of nowhere, caught me off guard, and I lost horribly. I checked their primer, and understand the deck a bit better, but the only deck they mentioned having trouble with was BG/x. What, if anything, can we do about this deck? Is it just use Karn to keep them off of mana? Any advice on this matchup is appreciated. It's not that I mind losing, but he is newer to the game. I don't want to give him an inferior run
Ad Nauseum is our worst MU, way worst then Burn or any other aggro, just get used to lose to it lol, the best "answer" is TKS to disrupt and Karn, but both tun 3...
tron MU from worst to best goes by combo (twin, adnauseum, living end, storm, jeskai ascendancy, scapeshift.... ad nauseum being the worst because it cant be countered by warping wail because most of them are instant) > aggro (burn, infect, zoo) > midrange > control.
I tried and gave up on TKS to answer the combo MU, it's just not that many in any given meta, I still wins if I get nut draws or they hands get clunky. Also, with limited spots, you need to trade spellskite or wurmcoil to add more TKS.
Instead, my strategy is to focus on most tier 1 decks of the meta which is burn, infect, coco and spellskite works better for me.
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MODERN
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
Hey guys, my buddy just pulled Ad Nauseum out of nowhere, caught me off guard, and I lost horribly. I checked their primer, and understand the deck a bit better, but the only deck they mentioned having trouble with was BG/x. What, if anything, can we do about this deck? Is it just use Karn to keep them off of mana? Any advice on this matchup is appreciated. It's not that I mind losing, but he is newer to the game. I don't want to give him an inferior run
One possibility is to thwart their win condition. A Pithing Needle shuts down Lightning Storm. The problem is they often board into something else, so don't put too much stock into cards like that. Then again, I won a game against Ad Nauseam thanks to Spellskite, as they didn't board into anything different and thus between Spellskite and the two lands in my hand, I was able to overcome Lightning Storm (well, the two Spellskites, as the first lost to Slaughter Pact). Basically, having something to stop Lightning Storm can work, but it's not a 100% certainty because they might be going off with something else.
The real key card is Ad Nauseam. If you can stop that, they can't combo off. Slaughter Games is amazing, but it also requires a bit of a commitment, as you need the Llanowar Wastes and also to use up several slots in the sideboard for a card that's fairly mediocre right now. Still, that's your best way to beat them.
Beyond that, your goal is to get rid of their ramp via Karn or Nature's Claim. Ad Nauseam does cost 5 mana plus 1 for Angel's Gace (though if Phyrexian Unlife is in play it's only 5), so if you can stop Prophetic Prisms and Lotus Blooms you can slow them down, though unfortunately they can try to go off at Instant speed in response to Nature's Claim on a Lotus Bloom. Nature's Claim can also take out a Phyrexian Unlife.
Note that if you plan to do something like destroying the Phyrexian Unlife to thwart their plan, you need to do it BEFORE Ad Nauseam resolves. Once it resolves they'll have all the Pact of Negations necessary to stop whatever your answer is.
I guess this was a bit rambly, but Ad Nauseam is sort of a deck where you just kind of have to toss a few things at it and hope it sticks. Though it sure is satisfying when they cast Spoils of the Vault and only find their target 22 cards later. Your best bet is Slaughter Games for Ad Nauseam, but as noted that has its issues. Beyond that, you can try to bring in some hate for their possible win conditions in the hope you hit the right one, and be sure to try to slow down their ramp if at all possible. Thought-Knot Seer can possibly disrupt them as well.
Use karn to hit their mana sources, thought knot-seer for some hand disruption that can keep them off the combo. Still not the best matchup although you can also pithing needle lightning storm to keep them off one win condition
Sweet, I don't run TKS, but I did not realize Needle did that, thanks!
Glad to help! Also Natures Claim's are key in destroying pentad prism's and lotus blooms
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Hey guys, my buddy just pulled Ad Nauseum out of nowhere, caught me off guard, and I lost horribly. I checked their primer, and understand the deck a bit better, but the only deck they mentioned having trouble with was BG/x. What, if anything, can we do about this deck? Is it just use Karn to keep them off of mana? Any advice on this matchup is appreciated. It's not that I mind losing, but he is newer to the game. I don't want to give him an inferior run
The biggest reason Ad Nauseam decks lose game 2/3 is due to artifact hate. You want to use nature's claims on their pentad prism or lotus blooms. If they have a phryexian unlife out, you will want to wait to use natures claim on it until they try to cast ad nauseam. Ad Nauseam can't afford to stall against Tron as a resolved Karn or Ulamog is likely game over in most situations (exceptions include them having double lotus bloom on suspend turn 1, them having both pentad prisms and lotus bloom; really any way that ensures they have six mana even if you use disruption on them). Also keep in mind that if they have six mana when their lotus bloom comes off suspend, they can combo off in response to you trying to destroy it; also be wary of when they are at five mana as they can use a simian spirit guide from their hand to combo off as well. Hand Disruption is strong against Ad Nauseam, so Thought Knot Seer is quite good against them, especially considering that they don't have ways to remove it so it becomes a clock as well. Beyond those two cards, Tron doesn't have a lot of answers to Ad Nauseam, so I would consider hard mulling to natures claim + green source if your hand doesn't include either turn 3 tron on the play with either karn/thought or turn 2 thought knot. World Breaker is also a relevant threat if you play them.
Pithing Needle and Spellskite are weak against Ad Nauseam as they will often run Labratory Maniac in the mainboard, making both fairly useless.
Jeskai Control (2-0) - Game 1, T3 Karn into T4 ulamog, T5 breaker, it was just the nuts - concedes with nothing on board. Slow start game 2, but conduit into world breaker, world breaker ends it. Eldrazi Temple brings it home, I never assembled tron this game.
Mono Blue Tron (2-0) - Game 1, keep a possible T3 Tron hand. Succeed at T3 Karn, but condescended. Next turn, I have breaker, and a decision - His board is Plant, Tower, (tapped)Tec Edge, Map. Target T-Edge. If he hadn't tapped that for map, he could have knocked me off tron. Condescends breaker, but a slew of lands allow me to recur and cast multiple breakers, chewing through his lands. Mull to 6 g2, he stumbles on mana while I go natural tron, conduit, ulamog, game.
Jund (2-0) Game 1 was insane. On the draw, mull to FOUR, on the back of two no land mulligans. Hand is forest,forest, stirrings, wastes. T1 Thougtseize snatches Stirrings, and I'm salty thinking this is game. Sylvan Scrying into map gets me on tron, while he just plays lands. I crack map to get third piece on endstep, knowing full well he's going to ghost quarter it. I wanted gq out so I could play the temple without fear, and get my conduit going. Once again temple is mvp, giving me conduit into breaker, and keeping pressure until I could get third piece and play ulamog. Game 2 was short - he mulled to 5, plays catacombs, pass. I play Plant->Map, he scoops? Dunno why.
Jeskai Control (2-0) Game 1 Turn 4 Karn, dies to snap-bolt. T5 Karn dies to bolt again, but he's running out of resources. 2x TKS strips the rest of his action to pave the way for ulamog. G2 highlights why this match is virtually unwinnable for them - Mull to four again, with Breaker, Stirrings, Forest, Scrying, and scry conduit to the bottom. Manage to scratch together T4 tron into breaker. Next turn, go for Conduit, remanded, but ulamog on top. He untaps, Crumble to Dust my Towers. Eldrazi Temple to the rescue! I chew through his removal with breaker, conduit, breaker, karn. Managed to stick a breaker for the win.
Jeskai Control (again! 2-0) Game 1 mull to 5 on the draw, still manage to assemble T3 tron into TKS, which he immediately paths, with the exile trigger still on the stack. So I get a land, he draws a card, then I get to exile Mana Leak, paving the way for Karn next turn. Turn after is ulamog to win. Game two he concedes after a string of TKS with a Karn waiting.
Overall - Further proves this list is stellar against typical tron favorites. People must really be pushing to find a Jeskai list that works, which is great for us. Temple has virtually eliminated my fear of land destruction, it's no longer game breaking, but just a minor setback. The practice matches against aggro (burn and goblins so far) have shown that as long as we don't stumble the first few turns, we can be dropping must-answer threats fast enough to keep them focused on the threats and not your life total.
Im back and i've gotten a few new cards and i managed to play in 1 modern tournament lately. Would love some feedback on my current list im planning to play in the next
next modern tournament, whenever the hell that is.
I've cut 2 Karns just because he was and is kinda bad in my meta, just too slow. I added the TKS to handle combo and annoying cards, i think im gonna get another TKS to replace the Spellskite but i like having 1 offs.
World Breaker is amazing, just amazing and i want more copies.
Conduit of Ruin has been good, definetly swung the game in my favour a couple of times but it kinda hosed me once or twice.
What do you guys think about the 1 off Eldrazi Temple in my list? Could it be a better land? Its the only one i got but i kinda like having it.
Im thinking about playing a 1 off Ugin again but i don't know what to cut since if i have TKS out its nice to be able to wrath the board and not letting the opponent draw cards from me killing my TKS.
So what do you guys think of my list? i would love to get some feedback!
What is your best supplement for Eye of Ugin? I played a 10-player event today, finished 2-2. I lost 3 games (that's why I wen't 2-2) because I flooded with a dead Sanctum in play. That's when I would have won directly by the Eye. However, Conduit of Ruin doesn't get me excited, and Time of Need seems even worse. Though I'm going to try the Conduit. But I'm going to Frankfurt MKM Series next weekend, and therefore I could use some more suggestions. Sea Gate Wreckage seems worthy a test, too, but when I flooded, I was not going hellbent at all.
TKS performed just great, I will never cut it again. I think about putting 2 of 3 in the SB for 2 Ugin (who would also have been useful today), and binning Emrakul for now.
Also, have you any experiences with Warping Wail, main or side? I saw a list with 3 WW, 2 Kozilek's Return and 0 Clasm MB. I have the Returns, but I am not sure about that. But just the versatility of WW already got me by it's value in Standard.
My MUs were:
Round 1 vs Affinity
Game 1 he starts slowly, I get him with O-Stone.
Game 2 I loose because I kept a nice-looking one-lander that killed me.
Game 3 is like game 1, easy going.
Round 2 vs Eggs
Game 1 I loose to the combo.
Game 2 I win via TKS into Relic, Game 3 again.
Round 3 vs RG Eldrazi
Game 1 I win with Karn t3 into O-Stone and another Karn.
Game 2 I loose because I flood away.
Game 3 I loose because I flood away.
Both games with a dead Sanctum in play.
Round 4 vs Elves
Game 1 I win in a tight game with Wurmcoil and Ulamog.
Game 2 I loose because I never see a removal, and he just goes crazy.
Game 3 I am flooded with a dead Sanctum again. I have 3 Clasms, my opponent's board is emptied every 2nd turn. But I never see gas, and he slowly grinds me to death.
I'm taking this to a TCG tournament on Saturday and this is the first big tournament that I have played in. Any feedback on anything would be appreciated.
Just picked up the rest of what I need to convert my old RG Tron over to a more Eldrazi-Tron. I've seen a lot of lists play a 2/2 split of World Breaker/Ulamog, and this seems to be where the most success has been had. Is there any agreeance on this split? It really seems like everyone on this thread is doing their own thing..
Just picked up the rest of what I need to convert my old RG Tron over to a more Eldrazi-Tron. I've seen a lot of lists play a 2/2 split of World Breaker/Ulamog, and this seems to be where the most success has been had. Is there any agreeance on this split? It really seems like everyone on this thread is doing their own thing..
That is the right call now + 2x Wurmcoil, the rest is metta. I'm using 2x Ulamog, WBreaker, Wurmcoil and 3 TKSeer. SKite is SB now fo me.
What is your best supplement for Eye of Ugin? I played a 10-player event today, finished 2-2. I lost 3 games (that's why I wen't 2-2) because I flooded with a dead Sanctum in play. That's when I would have won directly by the Eye. However, Conduit of Ruin doesn't get me excited, and Time of Need seems even worse. Though I'm going to try the Conduit. But I'm going to Frankfurt MKM Series next weekend, and therefore I could use some more suggestions. Sea Gate Wreckage seems worthy a test, too, but when I flooded, I was not going hellbent at all.
TKS performed just great, I will never cut it again. I think about putting 2 of 3 in the SB for 2 Ugin (who would also have been useful today), and binning Emrakul for now.
Also, have you any experiences with Warping Wail, main or side? I saw a list with 3 WW, 2 Kozilek's Return and 0 Clasm MB. I have the Returns, but I am not sure about that. But just the versatility of WW already got me by it's value in Standard.
My MUs were:
Round 1 vs Affinity
Game 1 he starts slowly, I get him with O-Stone.
Game 2 I loose because I kept a nice-looking one-lander that killed me.
Game 3 is like game 1, easy going.
Round 2 vs Eggs
Game 1 I loose to the combo.
Game 2 I win via TKS into Relic, Game 3 again.
Round 3 vs RG Eldrazi
Game 1 I win with Karn t3 into O-Stone and another Karn.
Game 2 I loose because I flood away.
Game 3 I loose because I flood away.
Both games with a dead Sanctum in play.
Round 4 vs Elves
Game 1 I win in a tight game with Wurmcoil and Ulamog.
Game 2 I loose because I never see a removal, and he just goes crazy.
Game 3 I am flooded with a dead Sanctum again. I have 3 Clasms, my opponent's board is emptied every 2nd turn. But I never see gas, and he slowly grinds me to death.
Greetings
If you're running this version, you should really be running Sea Gate Wreckage and not Sanctum (at least, from my testing). Sanctum only really shines when you're running lots of 7+ drops. When you're running only 6 (4 Karn, 2 Ulamog) it won't trigger nearly enough to save you from the flood. Sea Gate has some issues with not always drawing into gas, but it's a relatively consistent Library of Alexandria as long as you pay mind to when you crack your Eggs and Maps.
I feel this deck is going in two directions right now; a version like the one above that runs Sea Gate and lots of Thought-Knots, and another version that runs World Breaker, Ugin, and Sanctum. At my previous two tournaments, I've gone 3-1 with two different lists with my only losses to Burn (still looking for options to shore this up). Even post-board, I felt it was hard to make it any better than 50/50 (which is rough when G1 is very hard to win, especially if you're going in blind). Sideboards are in flux, but I'll put in what I remember:
This one is the more conventional of the two, and largely inspired by Thenarus's list. Possible change is -1 GQ +1 Grove for more consistent mana; GQ hasn't been a huge performer for me in the new meta. Other than that, not much to say. Sea Gate Wreckage only puts in work in the grindy MUs, but in those MUs it puts in a lot of work.
The Burn MU was difficult. Even after SBing in Feeds, Claims, and Thragtusks, I lost both the preboard and postboard games in relatively quick fashion. Wurmcoils get Skullcracked easily/block+burned relatively easily. Thought-Knot puts in a little work as a blocker, but it's still not great.
I'll explain the differences in this list (largely inspired by a list that went 7-1 at the last SCG Invi). First of all, this list has a whopping 11 cards that cost 7 or more mana (5 of which are colorless Eldrazi creatures). This makes Sanctum relatively easy to trigger, unlike the other lists where it's inconsistent (in more conventional Tron, I strongly dislike the card). I've found that you're able to use it relatively aggressively vs Burn etc, which makes it a far more powerful card.
Additionally, running 5 colorless Eldrazi creatures means that you can trigger Koz Return's flashback with relative consistency; while the card looks clunkier than Clasm on paper, I've found the exact opposite in testing. It heavily disrupts instants that effect the opponent's board; you can blow up your opponent's board after eot Chords and Companies, blow out their creatures in response to Atarka's Commands, gets around Burrington Forge-Tender and Etched Champion, can be fetched by Stirrings, and turns 5 more of your cards into full-blown Wrath effects. While it requires some dedication to really make it work, I've found the card to be very powerful.
Speaking of aggressive decks, you'll probably notice the distinct lack of Wurmcoils; these have been moved to the SB. While it may seem unconventional and awkward at first, you'll be surprised to hear that in my testing this deck was far more viable against Burn. It picked up a G1 win, and won more postboard games in non-tourney testing. The key here is that with 7 7-drops that exile lands and trigger Sanctums to find Ulamogs, exiling all your opponents' lands is relatively easy, and severely limits their topdecks once you're at 3-6 life. Additionally, postboard your Sanctum target changes to the 1 Kozilek Distortion from the SB, which as others have mentioned really blows out the MU.
I've personally felt like most Tron builds take one of these two routes, and then there are some like Lossett's that straddle the lines and play splits of Wurmcoils/World Breakers with Sanctums but no Koz's Returns. Those seem pretty popular, and use the advantage of Stirrings' powerful card selection, but I don't like how they don't let you abuse Sanctum/Return like the second list does while still running those cards. I've either liked going all-in on big threats and Returns, or playing the "smaller" version with Clasms, Wreckage, and lots of Thought-Knots. YMMV, though.
I've found the Eldrazi Temple builds to be very underwhelming; while it sounds like a reasonable backup plan to Tron, it's relatively slow and clunky, and cutting red out of your manabase just ruins your aggressive MUs. Additionally, threats like Reality Smasher aren't very good in Tron, as we put no pressure on their life total, giving our opponents plenty of time to deal with these threats. Eldrazi outside of World Breaker, Newlamog, and Thought-Knot are much better fits in the post-ban Eldrazi decks than they are in the Tron decks, that put more pressure on the opponent's life total in all stages of the game.
In other news: While the primer is now several banlists old, I'm finding it difficult to put in any kind of analysis in such a new metagame. I can put in what I have above as a placeholder, but I'm not confident in the state of the lists, with only a limited selection of high-profile events to work off of.
I would suggest some Pulse of Murasa in the SB of your first version (as there is 4 slots left) for the Burn MU. Besides the obvious reason to gain 6 life at instant speed for 3 mana, it also has nice versatility in returning countered threats to your hand that were countered/discarded early on. Because the Eye is gone, and the reshuffling ability is no longer present, Pulse can be a reasonable 2-of or more.
Greetings
Edit: an updated Primer is great, I guess. Eye of Ugin, Pod and Twin gone, Eldrazi decks and Thopter combo becoming a thing in Modern etc pp.
I agree with you completely, Slivortal, regarding the merits of both lists, especially on your comments about SGW vs. Sanctum. I've updated the list in my sig; I pulled the Surgicals and Warping Wails out for three Relics (once again) and a single World Breaker. I've had better luck against Burn running the list you have, with the following sideboardling lines:
IN: 2x Feed the Clan, 3x Spellskite, 4x Nature's Claim
I keep Ulamog in because I have plenty to do in the earlier turns, and when he sticks, it takes them out of the game much harder than Karn does. It is perfectly reasonable to just leave a Karn or two in and remove the Ulamogs instead, depending on preference or whether or not you're on the play. Since I pack a single World Breaker in my side, I could bring that in, and leave the Ghost Quarter. Thing is, the tempo loss from dropping and cracking GQ within the first few turns makes it too slow.
Thragtusk is also a beast, but it's lacking against Burn, where the five mana cost and sorcery-speed make it awkward in both our own lines, and against Skullcrack/Atarka's Command. I find that Spellskite walls well enough, and it helps Nature's Claim save our bacon more often. Either way, this match is still one of our worst, along with the fast combo lists we have a tough time interacting with. What have your ins and outs been, and what builds of Burn have you been playing against?
I know my list lacks some delicious-looking main-deck bombs like Ugin and World Breaker. For the way I play, I really like to run low to the ground; you'll notice my average mana cost is lower than some other lists. Now that Tron is billed as top tier again, we can reasonably expect more land destruction to come in against us. TKS and O-Stone are still very realistically castable even if something as gutting as Crumble to Dust has stuck. Ghost Quarter is present enough in the meta to keep me on the two Forests and not go too big pre-board. So many decks that beat us race us hard as well, so I do everything I can to be able to have game against them.
Chalupacabra and I worked out sideboarding lines against the listed tier one and two field for both my Tron build and his BW Eldrazi and Taxes list; once he sends me a copy, I'll dump the Tron portion here for you to enjoy/critique. My 75 feels good, although Pithing Needle and Warping Wail are never far from my land destruction-paranoid mind going into the Indy Open.
I'm just now collecting the cards to build this deck, finally starting to try to break into modern. I'm curious, and sorry if this question has been discussed before, but there are a LOT of pages in this thread. What is the plan against infect? I know it would be a bad matchup, but have you all experienced in that match up to work and not work against it, since unlike burn life gain isn't game over for them?
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Ad Nauseum is our worst MU, way worst then Burn or any other aggro, just get used to lose to it lol, the best "answer" is TKS to disrupt and Karn, but both tun 3...
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
I tried and gave up on TKS to answer the combo MU, it's just not that many in any given meta, I still wins if I get nut draws or they hands get clunky. Also, with limited spots, you need to trade spellskite or wurmcoil to add more TKS.
Instead, my strategy is to focus on most tier 1 decks of the meta which is burn, infect, coco and spellskite works better for me.
Tron variants
Eldrazi variants
Burn
Infect
Living End
Bloodwalkers
RG Ponza
LEGACY
Turbo Depths
Big Eldrazi
The real key card is Ad Nauseam. If you can stop that, they can't combo off. Slaughter Games is amazing, but it also requires a bit of a commitment, as you need the Llanowar Wastes and also to use up several slots in the sideboard for a card that's fairly mediocre right now. Still, that's your best way to beat them.
Beyond that, your goal is to get rid of their ramp via Karn or Nature's Claim. Ad Nauseam does cost 5 mana plus 1 for Angel's Gace (though if Phyrexian Unlife is in play it's only 5), so if you can stop Prophetic Prisms and Lotus Blooms you can slow them down, though unfortunately they can try to go off at Instant speed in response to Nature's Claim on a Lotus Bloom. Nature's Claim can also take out a Phyrexian Unlife.
Note that if you plan to do something like destroying the Phyrexian Unlife to thwart their plan, you need to do it BEFORE Ad Nauseam resolves. Once it resolves they'll have all the Pact of Negations necessary to stop whatever your answer is.
I guess this was a bit rambly, but Ad Nauseam is sort of a deck where you just kind of have to toss a few things at it and hope it sticks. Though it sure is satisfying when they cast Spoils of the Vault and only find their target 22 cards later. Your best bet is Slaughter Games for Ad Nauseam, but as noted that has its issues. Beyond that, you can try to bring in some hate for their possible win conditions in the hope you hit the right one, and be sure to try to slow down their ramp if at all possible. Thought-Knot Seer can possibly disrupt them as well.
Glad to help! Also Natures Claim's are key in destroying pentad prism's and lotus blooms
RBU
Splinter Twin (RIP)/DelverRBUUUUMono U TronUUU
GRGGR TronGRG
GWURKnight FallGWUR
Legacy
GWBDark MaverickGWB
--> EDH <--
BWUErtai, the CorruptedBWU
The biggest reason Ad Nauseam decks lose game 2/3 is due to artifact hate. You want to use nature's claims on their pentad prism or lotus blooms. If they have a phryexian unlife out, you will want to wait to use natures claim on it until they try to cast ad nauseam. Ad Nauseam can't afford to stall against Tron as a resolved Karn or Ulamog is likely game over in most situations (exceptions include them having double lotus bloom on suspend turn 1, them having both pentad prisms and lotus bloom; really any way that ensures they have six mana even if you use disruption on them). Also keep in mind that if they have six mana when their lotus bloom comes off suspend, they can combo off in response to you trying to destroy it; also be wary of when they are at five mana as they can use a simian spirit guide from their hand to combo off as well. Hand Disruption is strong against Ad Nauseam, so Thought Knot Seer is quite good against them, especially considering that they don't have ways to remove it so it becomes a clock as well. Beyond those two cards, Tron doesn't have a lot of answers to Ad Nauseam, so I would consider hard mulling to natures claim + green source if your hand doesn't include either turn 3 tron on the play with either karn/thought or turn 2 thought knot. World Breaker is also a relevant threat if you play them.
Pithing Needle and Spellskite are weak against Ad Nauseam as they will often run Labratory Maniac in the mainboard, making both fairly useless.
To read more about the monthly MTGS metagame update and its data, check out the post below:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/566735-modern-metagame-discussion-thread-updated-1-15?comment=1186
Currently Playing:
Modern:
Tron
Titan-Shift
But that's the fun !!! Fight there guns agains't us
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Forest
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
1x Wastes
Artifact (12)
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Chromatic Star
4x Expedition Map
3x Conduit of Ruin
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3x World Breaker
Sorcery (9)
2x All Is Dust
4x Ancient Stirrings
3x Sylvan Scrying
Planeswalker (5)
4x Karn Liberated
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2x Fog
2x Feed the Clan
2x Gut Shot
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4x Nature's Claim
2x Oblivion Stone
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Spellskite
Jeskai Control (2-0) - Game 1, T3 Karn into T4 ulamog, T5 breaker, it was just the nuts - concedes with nothing on board. Slow start game 2, but conduit into world breaker, world breaker ends it. Eldrazi Temple brings it home, I never assembled tron this game.
Mono Blue Tron (2-0) - Game 1, keep a possible T3 Tron hand. Succeed at T3 Karn, but condescended. Next turn, I have breaker, and a decision - His board is Plant, Tower, (tapped)Tec Edge, Map. Target T-Edge. If he hadn't tapped that for map, he could have knocked me off tron. Condescends breaker, but a slew of lands allow me to recur and cast multiple breakers, chewing through his lands. Mull to 6 g2, he stumbles on mana while I go natural tron, conduit, ulamog, game.
Jund (2-0) Game 1 was insane. On the draw, mull to FOUR, on the back of two no land mulligans. Hand is forest,forest, stirrings, wastes. T1 Thougtseize snatches Stirrings, and I'm salty thinking this is game. Sylvan Scrying into map gets me on tron, while he just plays lands. I crack map to get third piece on endstep, knowing full well he's going to ghost quarter it. I wanted gq out so I could play the temple without fear, and get my conduit going. Once again temple is mvp, giving me conduit into breaker, and keeping pressure until I could get third piece and play ulamog. Game 2 was short - he mulled to 5, plays catacombs, pass. I play Plant->Map, he scoops? Dunno why.
Jeskai Control (2-0) Game 1 Turn 4 Karn, dies to snap-bolt. T5 Karn dies to bolt again, but he's running out of resources. 2x TKS strips the rest of his action to pave the way for ulamog. G2 highlights why this match is virtually unwinnable for them - Mull to four again, with Breaker, Stirrings, Forest, Scrying, and scry conduit to the bottom. Manage to scratch together T4 tron into breaker. Next turn, go for Conduit, remanded, but ulamog on top. He untaps, Crumble to Dust my Towers. Eldrazi Temple to the rescue! I chew through his removal with breaker, conduit, breaker, karn. Managed to stick a breaker for the win.
Jeskai Control (again! 2-0) Game 1 mull to 5 on the draw, still manage to assemble T3 tron into TKS, which he immediately paths, with the exile trigger still on the stack. So I get a land, he draws a card, then I get to exile Mana Leak, paving the way for Karn next turn. Turn after is ulamog to win. Game two he concedes after a string of TKS with a Karn waiting.
Overall - Further proves this list is stellar against typical tron favorites. People must really be pushing to find a Jeskai list that works, which is great for us. Temple has virtually eliminated my fear of land destruction, it's no longer game breaking, but just a minor setback. The practice matches against aggro (burn and goblins so far) have shown that as long as we don't stumble the first few turns, we can be dropping must-answer threats fast enough to keep them focused on the threats and not your life total.
RG Tron promoted to Tier 1 from Tier 2
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Im back and i've gotten a few new cards and i managed to play in 1 modern tournament lately. Would love some feedback on my current list im planning to play in the next
next modern tournament, whenever the hell that is.
well anywho, here it is!
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Conduit of Ruin
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 World Breaker
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Spellskite
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Pyroclasm
2 Kozilek’s Return
2 Karn Liberated
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Oblivion Stone
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Urza’s Power Plant
4 Urza’s Mine
4 Urza’s Tower
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Eldrazi Temple
1 Sanctum of Ugin
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Feed the Clan
1 Life from the Loam
3 Nature’s Claim
1 Kozilek’s Return
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Thragtusk
1 Spellskite
2 Pithing Needle
1 Warping Wail
I've cut 2 Karns just because he was and is kinda bad in my meta, just too slow. I added the TKS to handle combo and annoying cards, i think im gonna get another TKS to replace the Spellskite but i like having 1 offs.
World Breaker is amazing, just amazing and i want more copies.
Conduit of Ruin has been good, definetly swung the game in my favour a couple of times but it kinda hosed me once or twice.
What do you guys think about the 1 off Eldrazi Temple in my list? Could it be a better land? Its the only one i got but i kinda like having it.
Im thinking about playing a 1 off Ugin again but i don't know what to cut since if i have TKS out its nice to be able to wrath the board and not letting the opponent draw cards from me killing my TKS.
So what do you guys think of my list? i would love to get some feedback!
Who needs Colours?
My most played EDH deck:
X Kozilek, the Great Distortion
UBR Nekusar, the Mindrazer
My list:
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Sanctum of Ugin
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Pyroclasm
4 Oblivion Stone
4 Karn Liberated
4 Nature's Claim
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Life from the Loam
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Spellskite
3 Boil
1 Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn
TKS performed just great, I will never cut it again. I think about putting 2 of 3 in the SB for 2 Ugin (who would also have been useful today), and binning Emrakul for now.
Also, have you any experiences with Warping Wail, main or side? I saw a list with 3 WW, 2 Kozilek's Return and 0 Clasm MB. I have the Returns, but I am not sure about that. But just the versatility of WW already got me by it's value in Standard.
My MUs were:
Round 1 vs Affinity
Game 1 he starts slowly, I get him with O-Stone.
Game 2 I loose because I kept a nice-looking one-lander that killed me.
Game 3 is like game 1, easy going.
Round 2 vs Eggs
Game 1 I loose to the combo.
Game 2 I win via TKS into Relic, Game 3 again.
Round 3 vs RG Eldrazi
Game 1 I win with Karn t3 into O-Stone and another Karn.
Game 2 I loose because I flood away.
Game 3 I loose because I flood away.
Both games with a dead Sanctum in play.
Round 4 vs Elves
Game 1 I win in a tight game with Wurmcoil and Ulamog.
Game 2 I loose because I never see a removal, and he just goes crazy.
Game 3 I am flooded with a dead Sanctum again. I have 3 Clasms, my opponent's board is emptied every 2nd turn. But I never see gas, and he slowly grinds me to death.
Greetings
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Forest
1 Sanctum of Ugin
Spells
4 Chromatic Star
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Oblivion Stone
3 All is Dust
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Conduit of Ruin
1 World Breaker
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Platinum Angel
1 Sundering Titan
1 Void Winnower
1 Reality Smasher
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Pithing Needle
4 Nature's Claim
I'm taking this to a TCG tournament on Saturday and this is the first big tournament that I have played in. Any feedback on anything would be appreciated.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
That is the right call now + 2x Wurmcoil, the rest is metta. I'm using 2x Ulamog, WBreaker, Wurmcoil and 3 TKSeer. SKite is SB now fo me.
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
I feel this deck is going in two directions right now; a version like the one above that runs Sea Gate and lots of Thought-Knots, and another version that runs World Breaker, Ugin, and Sanctum. At my previous two tournaments, I've gone 3-1 with two different lists with my only losses to Burn (still looking for options to shore this up). Even post-board, I felt it was hard to make it any better than 50/50 (which is rough when G1 is very hard to win, especially if you're going in blind). Sideboards are in flux, but I'll put in what I remember:
First list is:
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
2x Forest
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
Sorcery (12)
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Pyroclasm
4x Sylvan Scrying
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Chromatic Star
4x Expedition Map
4x Oblivion Stone
Creature (8)
3x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3x Wurmcoil Engine
Planeswalker (4)
4x Karn Liberated
4x Nature's Claim
2x Feed the Clan
2x Thragtusk
3x Relic of Progenitus
4x Other Cards
This one is the more conventional of the two, and largely inspired by Thenarus's list. Possible change is -1 GQ +1 Grove for more consistent mana; GQ hasn't been a huge performer for me in the new meta. Other than that, not much to say. Sea Gate Wreckage only puts in work in the grindy MUs, but in those MUs it puts in a lot of work.
The Burn MU was difficult. Even after SBing in Feeds, Claims, and Thragtusks, I lost both the preboard and postboard games in relatively quick fashion. Wurmcoils get Skullcracked easily/block+burned relatively easily. Thought-Knot puts in a little work as a blocker, but it's still not great.
The other, more experimental list is:
2x Forest
2x Sanctum of Ugin
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
Instant (3)
3x Kozilek's Return
Sorcery (8)
4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Sylvan Scrying
4x Chromatic Sphere
4x Chromatic Star
4x Expedition Map
3x Oblivion Stone
2x Relic of Progenitus
Creature (6)
1x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3x World Breaker
Planeswalker (6)
4x Karn Liberated
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4x Nature's Claim
2x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Other Cards
I'll explain the differences in this list (largely inspired by a list that went 7-1 at the last SCG Invi). First of all, this list has a whopping 11 cards that cost 7 or more mana (5 of which are colorless Eldrazi creatures). This makes Sanctum relatively easy to trigger, unlike the other lists where it's inconsistent (in more conventional Tron, I strongly dislike the card). I've found that you're able to use it relatively aggressively vs Burn etc, which makes it a far more powerful card.
Additionally, running 5 colorless Eldrazi creatures means that you can trigger Koz Return's flashback with relative consistency; while the card looks clunkier than Clasm on paper, I've found the exact opposite in testing. It heavily disrupts instants that effect the opponent's board; you can blow up your opponent's board after eot Chords and Companies, blow out their creatures in response to Atarka's Commands, gets around Burrington Forge-Tender and Etched Champion, can be fetched by Stirrings, and turns 5 more of your cards into full-blown Wrath effects. While it requires some dedication to really make it work, I've found the card to be very powerful.
Speaking of aggressive decks, you'll probably notice the distinct lack of Wurmcoils; these have been moved to the SB. While it may seem unconventional and awkward at first, you'll be surprised to hear that in my testing this deck was far more viable against Burn. It picked up a G1 win, and won more postboard games in non-tourney testing. The key here is that with 7 7-drops that exile lands and trigger Sanctums to find Ulamogs, exiling all your opponents' lands is relatively easy, and severely limits their topdecks once you're at 3-6 life. Additionally, postboard your Sanctum target changes to the 1 Kozilek Distortion from the SB, which as others have mentioned really blows out the MU.
I've personally felt like most Tron builds take one of these two routes, and then there are some like Lossett's that straddle the lines and play splits of Wurmcoils/World Breakers with Sanctums but no Koz's Returns. Those seem pretty popular, and use the advantage of Stirrings' powerful card selection, but I don't like how they don't let you abuse Sanctum/Return like the second list does while still running those cards. I've either liked going all-in on big threats and Returns, or playing the "smaller" version with Clasms, Wreckage, and lots of Thought-Knots. YMMV, though.
I've found the Eldrazi Temple builds to be very underwhelming; while it sounds like a reasonable backup plan to Tron, it's relatively slow and clunky, and cutting red out of your manabase just ruins your aggressive MUs. Additionally, threats like Reality Smasher aren't very good in Tron, as we put no pressure on their life total, giving our opponents plenty of time to deal with these threats. Eldrazi outside of World Breaker, Newlamog, and Thought-Knot are much better fits in the post-ban Eldrazi decks than they are in the Tron decks, that put more pressure on the opponent's life total in all stages of the game.
In other news: While the primer is now several banlists old, I'm finding it difficult to put in any kind of analysis in such a new metagame. I can put in what I have above as a placeholder, but I'm not confident in the state of the lists, with only a limited selection of high-profile events to work off of.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
Greetings
Edit: an updated Primer is great, I guess. Eye of Ugin, Pod and Twin gone, Eldrazi decks and Thopter combo becoming a thing in Modern etc pp.
IN: 2x Feed the Clan, 3x Spellskite, 4x Nature's Claim
OUT: 1x Ghost Quarter, 4x Oblivion Stone, 4x Karn Liberated
I keep Ulamog in because I have plenty to do in the earlier turns, and when he sticks, it takes them out of the game much harder than Karn does. It is perfectly reasonable to just leave a Karn or two in and remove the Ulamogs instead, depending on preference or whether or not you're on the play. Since I pack a single World Breaker in my side, I could bring that in, and leave the Ghost Quarter. Thing is, the tempo loss from dropping and cracking GQ within the first few turns makes it too slow.
Thragtusk is also a beast, but it's lacking against Burn, where the five mana cost and sorcery-speed make it awkward in both our own lines, and against Skullcrack/Atarka's Command. I find that Spellskite walls well enough, and it helps Nature's Claim save our bacon more often. Either way, this match is still one of our worst, along with the fast combo lists we have a tough time interacting with. What have your ins and outs been, and what builds of Burn have you been playing against?
I know my list lacks some delicious-looking main-deck bombs like Ugin and World Breaker. For the way I play, I really like to run low to the ground; you'll notice my average mana cost is lower than some other lists. Now that Tron is billed as top tier again, we can reasonably expect more land destruction to come in against us. TKS and O-Stone are still very realistically castable even if something as gutting as Crumble to Dust has stuck. Ghost Quarter is present enough in the meta to keep me on the two Forests and not go too big pre-board. So many decks that beat us race us hard as well, so I do everything I can to be able to have game against them.
Chalupacabra and I worked out sideboarding lines against the listed tier one and two field for both my Tron build and his BW Eldrazi and Taxes list; once he sends me a copy, I'll dump the Tron portion here for you to enjoy/critique. My 75 feels good, although Pithing Needle and Warping Wail are never far from my land destruction-paranoid mind going into the Indy Open.