I've been testing Sanctum of Ugin on MTGO for the (likely) ban of Eye. Its not awful, but you already need to have a 7+ drop in hand and cast it to get the trigger off of it. It does give you that inevitability of finding Emrakul if you want it though.
Still, I'm not sure its something I'll ultimately end up using.
Who names fetchlands though? Sounds like the mark of an amateur if I do say so myself (sorry if that sounds mean). Virtually every deck has a target for Pithing Needle, but it takes true prowess and knowing your meta to know where and when Pithing Needle is needed. Merfolk, for example, has plenty of targets for Pithing Needle (Aether Vial mainly since Cursecatcher would likely be sided out), but you'd be a fool for siding it in over Chalice of the Void and Nature's Claim. Adversely, Pithing Needle is often the ONLY thing that can save me from Borborygmos Enraged in Grishoalbrand until I can stabilize.
IMO Chalice of the Void is a star SB card in the current meta because it hoses Affinity, Infect, Ad Nauseam, Living End, Storm, Merfolk, and Burn.
Merfolk doesn't come close to hosing Merfolk; in fact, Merfolk is one of the worst decks to bring it in against. The card is actually pretty decent in Merfolk, in fact.
The problem is that Merfolk isn't particularly affected by it, especially if we're the ones playing it (no way to get it out on turn 1), because they don't have that many 1-drops and more importantly, the 1-drops they have are fairly weak if you don't get them out on turn 1 or at least on turn 2. What I mean is, suppose you cast Chalice of the Void at 1 on turn 2. That turns off Aether Vial and Cursecatcher. The problem is that them being unable to cast Aether Vial doesn't matter that much because if they had it they already cast it (as the card needs to be cast on turn 1 or at latest turn 2 to be any good) and if they drew it, it wouldn't be that good to them anyway. And if they had a Cursecatcher in hand they already cast it anyway. And if they had Aether Vial and Cursecatcher, they'd cast Aether Vial and then throw the Cursecatcher into play next turn anyway. So you're shutting off cards that, at that point, aren't that particularly great for them anyway.
In contrast, we have a lot of 1-drops. The Chromatics, Ancient Stirrings, and Expedition Map are 16 cards in total. Merfolk runs maybe 10 1-drops in contrast (4x Cursecatcher 4x Aether Vial and maybe 2 one-mana removal spells), so you're hitting more of your own cards than you're hitting of theirs. But even worse, unlike Merfolk, those 1-drops of yours retain value past the first few turns. Chromatics let you dig through your deck, Expedition Map searches up useful lands, and Ancient Stirrings is... Ancient Stirrings. So by casting Chalice of the Void against Merfolk, you're not only hitting more cards in your deck than in theirs, you're turning off cards that don't matter to them at that point anyway, while turning off cards in your deck that do matter.
I guess Chalice of the Void can hurt those Lords of theirs if you get it out with X=2, but by the time you can do that they'll have already cast one (and that's the best case scenario of being on the play and getting Tron on turn 3; if you're on the draw and/or get Tron on turn 4 then Chalice is even worse), and Chalice of the Void does nothing to stop them from throwing them into play with Aether Vial or from casting them off a Cavern of Souls.
Long story short, Chalice of the Void hurts you considerably more than it hurts the Merfolk player. I'd absolutely bring Pithing Needle in against Merfolk over Chalice of the Void (though not over Nature's Claim). Actually, I don't think I'd bring in Chalice of the Void at all against Merfolk. But the thing is that Pithing Needle actually does stop cards you worry about. Naming Aether Vial slows them down considerably and naming Mutavault takes out a pesky card that can persist through a Pyroclasm. It does something positive for you, unlike Chalice of the Void, which does less against their deck and also has the effect of hurting your deck.
Also, I don't think Borborygmos Enraged is the right card to name against Grishoalbrand with Pithing Needle. Griselbrand himself should be the target. To get the combo going they need to draw all of those cards, and without Griselbrand that doesn't work. Not only that, but them being able to draw card after card after card gives them a much better chance to find a way to get rid of that Pithing Needle so they can then just kill you with Borborygmos.
It would be more sensible to ban Eldrazi Temple. Eye of Ugin is easier to shutdown as it is a legendary land(can only have one on board), and banning it would hurt Tron too.
In order to maintain some form of a threat tutor, I've already replaced eye with Conduit of Ruin . Imo I definitely wouldn't replace eye with anything but some form of tutor replacement
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(Modern)
RG RG Titanshift RG WUBR Affinity WUBR x Eldrazi Tron x UG Tropical Merfolk UG
It would be more sensible to ban Eldrazi Temple. Eye of Ugin is easier to shutdown as it is a legendary land(can only have one on board), and banning it would hurt Tron too.
In order to maintain some form of a threat tutor, I've already replaced eye with Conduit of Ruin . Imo I definitely wouldn't replace eye with anything but some form of tutor replacement
It would be more sensible to ban Eldrazi Temple. Eye of Ugin is easier to shutdown as it is a legendary land(can only have one on board), and banning it would hurt Tron too.
In order to maintain some form of a threat tutor, I've already replaced eye with Conduit of Ruin . Imo I definitely wouldn't replace eye with anything but some form of tutor replacement
I like this idea!
It's worked pretty well, honestly there were a good portion of wins previously where I never saw Eye of Ugin...and most of the games I used it to tutor something, I probably would have won anyways. Not that it's not a great card, it is...but I wholeheartedly disagree with people saying tron will be "unplayable" without it. The tutor aspect of Conduit of Ruin is obviously why I put it in the deck, and that has worked just fine. And the great thing on top of that is you get a 5/5 body on the battlefield AND a reduction of casting cost for ANY creature on the first creature spell u cast each turn...it's been a win/win so far in the games I've played w/ it
Also, to the person who said Eldrazi Temple should be banned over Eye of Ugin: yeah it would be nice if we would be able to keep Eye, but I just don't see that happening. It's never been a format-killing card since Worldwake, until low-costed Eldrazi started getting printed. It's reasonable when you're talking about casting an Ulamog or Emrakul...but it's a different ballgame when you throw 2 cmc and up Eldrazi into the mix. Honestly I would be fine w/o having eye...it's a huge problem in Eldrazi and Tron is more than capable of carrying on w/o it.
It would be more sensible to ban Eldrazi Temple. Eye of Ugin is easier to shutdown as it is a legendary land(can only have one on board), and banning it would hurt Tron too.
In order to maintain some form of a threat tutor, I've already replaced eye with Conduit of Ruin . Imo I definitely wouldn't replace eye with anything but some form of tutor replacement
Wanting to turn eye into a tutor makes sense, but you can't tutor up your tutor anymore. We usually run many ways to find eye so in a long game, you'll have about a 50/50 chance to topdeck a threat, or a tutor for your tutor.
Running one conduit doesn't seem at all to fill that void; nothing will. I think I will test out adding another basic forest, and exchanging emrakul for a second ulamog, since he is so relevant in most matchups. The conduit to tutor up seems like it might be nice, but I think just running 2 ulamog would work for me.
Eye of Ugin is banned.
Ancestral Vision is unbanned.
Sword of the Meek is unbanned.
From their reasoning they really didn't feel like powering us down, but felt it was a better option than banning Temple since it allowed a more "fair" Eldrazi deck to keep existing.
Now that it is official we will see where Tron goes from here. The ability to tutor for a tutor made our deck incredibly strong against control, jund and the like.
I will try out some Eldrazi Temples along with TKS in the MD. Higher density of threats and interaction to ensure we get to the lategame we want.
Their reasoning is solid, I'm just bummed we're getting hit by other deck's sins. Losing Eye hurts all our positive matchups (midrange and control), right at a point where control will be coming back full-force.
Hopefully we can find a way to make this deck competitive without changing it completely, because all things combined I think we went down a whole Tier today. And my love for this deck is the only reason I'm still sticking with Modern.
Hello everyone, dropping by from the Deck Creation sub-forum.
I am very sorry that you must pay for the crimes of another deck. I can only hope that your noble sacrifice leads to a better format that you all can enjoy with the rest of us, even if your deck is not as powerful as before. I pray you find a decent replacement soon.
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Vorthos-y Johnny. All will be One
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
I am very sorry that you must pay for the crimes of another deck. I can only hope that your noble sacrifice leads to a better format that you all can enjoy with the rest of us, even if your deck is not as powerful as before. I pray you find a decent replacement soon.
Thank you This honestly means a lot to me, as I face having to tell my daughter that Eye of Ugin was banned when she comes home from school.
Been testing eldrazi tron with green splash and it seems better now that the meta will likely turn to control. The deck has a higher threat density meaning that counterspells and removal does less against it, it also means that we have less dead draws in the late game. The numbers of some of the threats however may need some adjusting depending on what is good. We lose pyroclasm and red sideboard support, but gain more consistent early game in return as well as a way to deal with no eye of ugin. If this list works, it will be ironic in a sense as wizards prediction of preserving the eldrazi as a deck would be wrong, as I would see little reason to play eldrazi without tron if this works. Any thoughts on this list? What should I include in the sideboard?
I think the deck will be fine overall without Eye of Ugin after the shock fades.
My gut thoughts of the direction of Eye of Uginless RG Tron
There will still be viable options for tutoring late game action include the following.
Sanctum of Ugin
Conduit of Ruin
My testing is going to lean towards a more Conduit heavy version due to the appeal of the cast trigger against the coming ancestral vision control decks that will pop up.
Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger will continue be the go to finisher over Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Without the consistency of tutoring for Eye of Ugin and turning that into an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, I think Emrakul just gets the cut finally. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger works more efficiently with Conduit of Ruin and still in most cases wins on the spot.
If there is a rise of blue attrition decks then Emrakul's stock will skyrocket, right? Can't win a game if all your bigs get countered. And even if Conduit gets countered you can still tutor up emmy.
I'll keep her in the side for now.
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Modern: -UBG Lantern Control-GW or RG or R Tron - G Stompy - C KCI Combo-
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
Mmm, ban doesn't surprise me. It's obviously not good for us, but it could be worse. I've been planning around this, so I have a handful of ideas of where to take my builds post-Eye.
I'm probably going to try two things: upping my Ulamog count to 2 or 3, and I want to slot some Thought-Knot Seers into the deck. I think the one thing we can't do anymore is play Emrakul, which makes me very sad.
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Legacy UBRDelver
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Still, I'm not sure its something I'll ultimately end up using.
Currently Playing:
Modern:
Tron
Titan-Shift
The problem is that Merfolk isn't particularly affected by it, especially if we're the ones playing it (no way to get it out on turn 1), because they don't have that many 1-drops and more importantly, the 1-drops they have are fairly weak if you don't get them out on turn 1 or at least on turn 2. What I mean is, suppose you cast Chalice of the Void at 1 on turn 2. That turns off Aether Vial and Cursecatcher. The problem is that them being unable to cast Aether Vial doesn't matter that much because if they had it they already cast it (as the card needs to be cast on turn 1 or at latest turn 2 to be any good) and if they drew it, it wouldn't be that good to them anyway. And if they had a Cursecatcher in hand they already cast it anyway. And if they had Aether Vial and Cursecatcher, they'd cast Aether Vial and then throw the Cursecatcher into play next turn anyway. So you're shutting off cards that, at that point, aren't that particularly great for them anyway.
In contrast, we have a lot of 1-drops. The Chromatics, Ancient Stirrings, and Expedition Map are 16 cards in total. Merfolk runs maybe 10 1-drops in contrast (4x Cursecatcher 4x Aether Vial and maybe 2 one-mana removal spells), so you're hitting more of your own cards than you're hitting of theirs. But even worse, unlike Merfolk, those 1-drops of yours retain value past the first few turns. Chromatics let you dig through your deck, Expedition Map searches up useful lands, and Ancient Stirrings is... Ancient Stirrings. So by casting Chalice of the Void against Merfolk, you're not only hitting more cards in your deck than in theirs, you're turning off cards that don't matter to them at that point anyway, while turning off cards in your deck that do matter.
I guess Chalice of the Void can hurt those Lords of theirs if you get it out with X=2, but by the time you can do that they'll have already cast one (and that's the best case scenario of being on the play and getting Tron on turn 3; if you're on the draw and/or get Tron on turn 4 then Chalice is even worse), and Chalice of the Void does nothing to stop them from throwing them into play with Aether Vial or from casting them off a Cavern of Souls.
Long story short, Chalice of the Void hurts you considerably more than it hurts the Merfolk player. I'd absolutely bring Pithing Needle in against Merfolk over Chalice of the Void (though not over Nature's Claim). Actually, I don't think I'd bring in Chalice of the Void at all against Merfolk. But the thing is that Pithing Needle actually does stop cards you worry about. Naming Aether Vial slows them down considerably and naming Mutavault takes out a pesky card that can persist through a Pyroclasm. It does something positive for you, unlike Chalice of the Void, which does less against their deck and also has the effect of hurting your deck.
Also, I don't think Borborygmos Enraged is the right card to name against Grishoalbrand with Pithing Needle. Griselbrand himself should be the target. To get the combo going they need to draw all of those cards, and without Griselbrand that doesn't work. Not only that, but them being able to draw card after card after card gives them a much better chance to find a way to get rid of that Pithing Needle so they can then just kill you with Borborygmos.
In order to maintain some form of a threat tutor, I've already replaced eye with Conduit of Ruin . Imo I definitely wouldn't replace eye with anything but some form of tutor replacement
(Modern)
RG RG Titanshift RG
WUBR Affinity WUBR
x Eldrazi Tron x
UG Tropical Merfolk UG
(Pauper)
G Elves G
WURG Affinity WURG
I like this idea!
It's worked pretty well, honestly there were a good portion of wins previously where I never saw Eye of Ugin...and most of the games I used it to tutor something, I probably would have won anyways. Not that it's not a great card, it is...but I wholeheartedly disagree with people saying tron will be "unplayable" without it. The tutor aspect of Conduit of Ruin is obviously why I put it in the deck, and that has worked just fine. And the great thing on top of that is you get a 5/5 body on the battlefield AND a reduction of casting cost for ANY creature on the first creature spell u cast each turn...it's been a win/win so far in the games I've played w/ it
Also, to the person who said Eldrazi Temple should be banned over Eye of Ugin: yeah it would be nice if we would be able to keep Eye, but I just don't see that happening. It's never been a format-killing card since Worldwake, until low-costed Eldrazi started getting printed. It's reasonable when you're talking about casting an Ulamog or Emrakul...but it's a different ballgame when you throw 2 cmc and up Eldrazi into the mix. Honestly I would be fine w/o having eye...it's a huge problem in Eldrazi and Tron is more than capable of carrying on w/o it.
(Modern)
RG RG Titanshift RG
WUBR Affinity WUBR
x Eldrazi Tron x
UG Tropical Merfolk UG
(Pauper)
G Elves G
WURG Affinity WURG
I like the idea as it can be found with Ancient Stirrings. A shame you cannot fetch it with Expedition Map or Sylvan Scrying like you can with Eye of Ugin.
Running one conduit doesn't seem at all to fill that void; nothing will. I think I will test out adding another basic forest, and exchanging emrakul for a second ulamog, since he is so relevant in most matchups. The conduit to tutor up seems like it might be nice, but I think just running 2 ulamog would work for me.
(Modern)
RG RG Titanshift RG
WUBR Affinity WUBR
x Eldrazi Tron x
UG Tropical Merfolk UG
(Pauper)
G Elves G
WURG Affinity WURG
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/banned-and-restricted-announcement-2016-04-04
Eye of Ugin is banned.
Ancestral Vision is unbanned.
Sword of the Meek is unbanned.
From their reasoning they really didn't feel like powering us down, but felt it was a better option than banning Temple since it allowed a more "fair" Eldrazi deck to keep existing.
Now that it is official we will see where Tron goes from here. The ability to tutor for a tutor made our deck incredibly strong against control, jund and the like.
I will try out some Eldrazi Temples along with TKS in the MD. Higher density of threats and interaction to ensure we get to the lategame we want.
BRGJundGRB
GCTronCG
WBRMardu PyromancerRBW
Legacy:
GElvesG
Hopefully we can find a way to make this deck competitive without changing it completely, because all things combined I think we went down a whole Tier today. And my love for this deck is the only reason I'm still sticking with Modern.
I am very sorry that you must pay for the crimes of another deck. I can only hope that your noble sacrifice leads to a better format that you all can enjoy with the rest of us, even if your deck is not as powerful as before. I pray you find a decent replacement soon.
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
Nope. I'm not even trying to, let someone else try to figure out what to do now. I'll come back in a month and see if I like the new decklists.
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Forest
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Oblivion Sower
2 World Breaker
4 Karn Liberated
My gut thoughts of the direction of Eye of Uginless RG Tron
There will still be viable options for tutoring late game action include the following.
Sanctum of Ugin
Conduit of Ruin
My testing is going to lean towards a more Conduit heavy version due to the appeal of the cast trigger against the coming ancestral vision control decks that will pop up.
Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger will continue be the go to finisher over Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Without the consistency of tutoring for Eye of Ugin and turning that into an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, I think Emrakul just gets the cut finally. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger works more efficiently with Conduit of Ruin and still in most cases wins on the spot.
My 2 cents
I'll keep her in the side for now.
EDH: -UG Ezuri-UGZegana-BRMogis-WUBRGRamos-WBREdgar-URLocust God-WUBRBreya-BMacar-WUBrago-WEvra-
It works well and the nut-draw will get you Ulamong T4
Get your playsets while they are still 2$ each.
I'm probably going to try two things: upping my Ulamog count to 2 or 3, and I want to slot some Thought-Knot Seers into the deck. I think the one thing we can't do anymore is play Emrakul, which makes me very sad.
Modern
RGTron
Legacy
UBRDelver
Also Playing:
Dragon Ball Z TCG