It's not just about making Geist unblockable. Its 4 for 4 power. 4 for 3 creatures, 2 of which are flying. It helps stabilize the board against aggro. Who cares if they kill one token off, you get the unblockable ability once no matter what, and with the amount of damage spells in the deck, sometimes all you need is one clean attack with geist. Writ of passage does nothing other than make geist unblockable and is a dead card in your hand otherwise. Whirler Rogue actually acts more similar to Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the deck. There are advantages to using either card, I like Whirler more because of better immediate defense and Restoration Angel.
Whirler Rogue actually acts more similar to Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the deck.
You should just be running Elspeth is the thing though. Elspeth is harder for other decks to handle, being that she's a planeswalker, and still helps to stabilize against aggro, as well as making your Geists hit harder, and helping your Snapcasters be real threats when attacking.
Tron depends on your deck. Sideboarding Crumble To Dust helps post-board and Stony Silence helps post-board which you'll probably run for Affinity. Path is good against Wurmcoil and if you run Spell Piece that hits Planeswalkers like Kahn or something like a map on the play. Spell Snare can hit a bunch of cards in the deck as well. Decks heavier on Control will do better against Tron, decks heavier on creatures will struggle more.
Well, I'll be on something very much like JulsSkogs' list. I was thinking of getting a Crumble into the board already, so that seems good.
Whirler Rogue actually acts more similar to Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the deck.
You should just be running Elspeth is the thing though. Elspeth is harder for other decks to handle, being that she's a planeswalker, and still helps to stabilize against aggro, as well as making your Geists hit harder, and helping your Snapcasters be real threats when attacking.
Yeah, that was pretty much where I was going with it all.
I picked up a Duel Deck Elspeth, Sun's Champion for the sideboard, so I think I own everything I am looking to run. JulsSkogs, what changes (if any) are you thinking of considering the recent bans?
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That might be true, I haven't tested it enough to argue against that, but 2 colorless flyers is huge defense against Affinity. I think Elspeth is better against mid-range, Whirler against aggro.
Elspeth does work well with Geist. I've always preferred that particular combination in Bant though. Noble Heirarch is really good with Geist. Geist is in that 3 CMC or less range for CoCo as well. Green also gives you Gavony Township which aside from pumping Geist permanently can pump the Angel if you use it at instant speed after declaring attackers.
That might be true, I haven't tested it enough to argue against that, but 2 colorless flyers is huge defense against Affinity. I think Elspeth is better against mid-range, Whirler against aggro.
But we're already good against the aggressive decks, so making that matchup better isn't really important.
Has anyone tried splashing a Breeding Pool for a sideboarded Gaddock Teeg? What were your results?
Seems like a non-bo with a lot of the cards the deck could be playing, like Cryptic and Rev. And a lot of decks are gonna be playing Blood Moon to try and hose the Eldrazi decks, which we'd be extremely vulnerable to.
Now that Twin is out of the meta, I see myself more comfortably tapping out for a strong threat Game 1, like Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Lightning Angel. Similarly, with the loss of Twin from the meta, I suspect a rise in Tron and Bx Eldrazi, which is the reason for the 1 maindeck Aven Mindcensor. Even if not against those two decks, Aven Mindcensor can just be a flash disrupter/beater and a higher density of creatures plays well with the planeswalker. The removal/burn suite is standard and something I don't think should change at all for nearly all builds.
A decision I have made is to cut the Serum Visions. Even though it was good casting the card at times, I find that in many cases I'd just rather have a higher density of actual spells. I imagine this will vary from list to list or playstyle to playstyle, but I don't personally like the card all that much. It was great in the slow matchups like vs. Twin or Grixis Control where you know they have a counterspell up and doing something is better than nothing, but I suspect a drop in blue in the meta.
The sideboard is fully equipped to handle a lot of different decks and have a lot of cards that work in many matchups. Keranos, God of Storms and Elspeth, Sun's Champion are the grind package against fair decks. The second Aven Mindcensor, Molten Rain, and Crumble to Dust is the anti-Tron/Bx Eldrazi package with incidental upside of having Molten Rain be a pro-active spell to use against other fair decks like Jund or Junk to gain some tempo. With Twin out of the meta, I feel comfortable siding down to 1 Dispel in the SB as it can still hit a fair amount of decks like Grixis Control, Jund (Kolaghan's Command), other control decks, Kiki-Chord (Chord of Calling), Naya Zoo/Burn (Collected Company or instant-speed burn spells), and many other potential decks. Negate, similar to Dispel, is just a very versatile counterspell to combat against combo decks, Tron, and Jund/Junk to combat a T3 Liliana of the Veil. Wear // Tear is still an incredibly versatile card, being able to destroy opposing Blood Moon, Choke, Lantern Control cards, Cranial Plating, Boggles Enchantments, and more. Celestial Purge is still a strong card these days, handling most of the delve creatures and burn creatures, as well as being an immediate answer for a Liliana of the Veil or even Blood Moon. Engineered Explosives helps against a lot of the aggressive decks in the format like Zoo or Affinity, as does Anger of the Gods. Last but not least, Timely Reinforcements is our single anti-burn card because we generally have a good matchup against them anyways. Being able to flash it back with Snapcaster Mage is the reason I play it over cards like Kor Firewalker, which are also bad when you're very far behind unlike Timely.
Some notes, questions, and concerns below.
1) I am not running Cryptic Command in the current list above. I would love peoples' thoughts on the card's viability at the moment. I think it can also be very strenuous on the manabase, forcing us to limit the amount of off-color utility lands such as Ghost Quarter, Eiganjo Castle, or Desolate Lighthouse. Unless the format proves to become a very grindy affair, I think I feel okay leaving home without Cryptic Command at the moment.
2) My counterspell suite seems a bit all over the place. Personally, I would feel more confident with a playset of Remand. I think 1 Spell Snare is a good number because there are a lot of decks that it just won't do well against. This leaves us with an odd 3-2 split between Remand and Mana Leak. I wonder if Mana Leak is even well-positioned in the format right now. It can hit Tron's tapout on T3, as well as hit the fair decks fairly well too, but I wonder if a more aggressive approach such as Spell Pierce might be stronger. The downside is that Mana Leak can hit opposing annoying creature spells, such as Tarmogoyf, Kitchen Finks, Scavenging Ooze and more. I'm not sure what I favor at the moment, but I do know that a playset of Remand is likely where I want to be so finding room for that would be helpful.
3) I would also love to find room for a second Ghost Quarter somewhere in the main because it can play very nicely with Aven Mindcensor in the main and can also be an aggressive and disruptive play against Tron and Bx Eldrazi as well as manlands from Affinity, Infect, and Jund/Junk. Also, I think a single Needle Spires could be great with maindeck Elspeth, Knight-Errant. While it is very prone to removal, it can be extremely explosive and close out games quickly in a race or top-deck mode.
4) I wouldn't mind having a Spellskite somewhere in the sideboard, but not sure what should be cut. My first thoughts on a cut are a Wear // Tear or a Celestial Purge.
5) Manabase. What is exactly is the optimal number of fetches and which ones should they be? I've seen a full playset of Flooded Strand and Scalding Tarn in a lot of lists, but if the list doesn't run Cryptic Command or other T1 blue spells, I imagine a split between Arid Mesa and Scalding Tarn could be good. Thoughts?
Summary: I think what is great about UWr Midrange is that there are a lot of different ways to approach the deck and it has yet to be optimized. I think a big part of that is how it is a very meta-dependent deck and the card choices will vary widely. I think the deck could be very favored in the upcoming meta and I would love to see all of us collaborate and find a tuned list that we can take to upcoming tournaments in the new meta.
Check out some Magic Gameplay and Commentary videos here, including Modern Grixis, Jeskai, and Esper videos as well as some Standard and Drafts too: My YouTube Channel!
Just a funny note. I've been playing a casual paper UWR Midrange deck with playsets of Snappy, Geist, and Mirran Crusader. I threw in three Angelic Destiny to add on something. Watch your opponent cry when you have dispel backup!
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Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Has anyone tried this deck yet against Eldrazi?
Eldrazi is very hyped right now..Twin was one of its bad matchups so im guessing there will be an Eldrazi invasion coming...
My experience was that its quite bad main board. Lingering souls kill Geist and well, Eldrazi do not care much for Lightning... <---Oh yes, 2 Tags 1 word !
I really like this deck. Since i expect a meta of Aggro, jund/junk, Tron/Eldrazi, i've changed the sideboard quite alot.
Added:
2x Blood Moon: Affects Tron, Eldrazi Jund/Junk.
1x Crumble to Dust: Tron, ELdrazi.
2x Leyline of Sanctity: Burn obviously. Jund, Junk to keep your geist safe from lili and IoK. Eldrazi, Oblivion Sower cant do jack (besides being big..).
2x Stony Silence: Tron, Eldrazi for maps eggs and relics. Affinity and Latern control (Although thats not likely).
What Do you guys think? (about Eldrazi, my sideboard choices and the 2 mainboard additions.)
That Eldrazi deck is a pain for UWR midrange. It goes over the top of midrange quickly, just like Tron, except it's a little more resilient to land destruction or Crumble to Dust. And yes, Lingering Souls. We'll have to see how the meta shakes out. It seems like Infect/Affinity might be able to beat that deck down consistently enough that it keeps it the Eldrazi from getting out of control.
Blood Moon is ok, but it was at its best vs Amulet. It shuts off our Colonnades, which are critical wincons against everyone, including Tron, Eldrazi, and BGx.
Crumble to Dust seems like a good option against Tron, but it feels slow vs Eldrazi. I'm trying out a couple Molten Rains. They feel similar to Fulminator Mages.
Leyline is interesting, but I've had good success with Kor Firewalker and Kitchen Finks against Burn. Timely Reinforcements is also solid. I don't think Leyline is necessary, but it's probably worth a try for the other applications if you're dealing with the other decks consistently.
I've always run 2 Stony Silence and have always liked them. They do some good work against Affinity, Tron, and Lantern Control. Not everyone's a big fan, but I am.
I may mess around with Monastery Mentor soon since I've been hearing so many good things.
Aven Mindcensor has been weak imo. I'm taking it out after the banning of Summer Bloom. I love Vendilion Clique as a flash flyer, but it looks like I'm in the minority. Clique picks out problematic cards against many decks and puts a nice clock on the opponent. I think it is particularly strong vs Tron, and I'd rather have it over Mindcensor. 3 power and 2 power are incredibly different. Also, it's important to note that Mindcensor doesn't shut off Ancient Stirrings, and it doesn't stop Ulamog/Karn/Ugin once Tron (or Eldrazi ramp) is assembled. It randomly gets fetches once in a while, but not always--the opponent won't play around it game 1, but will games 2-3. It's really much better when your whole strategy revolves around effects that get a big boost from Mindcensor, like Modern Death & Taxes.
Now that Twin is out of the meta, I see myself more comfortably tapping out for a strong threat Game 1, like Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Lightning Angel. Similarly, with the loss of Twin from the meta, I suspect a rise in Tron and Bx Eldrazi, which is the reason for the 1 maindeck Aven Mindcensor. Even if not against those two decks, Aven Mindcensor can just be a flash disrupter/beater and a higher density of creatures plays well with the planeswalker. The removal/burn suite is standard and something I don't think should change at all for nearly all builds.
A decision I have made is to cut the Serum Visions. Even though it was good casting the card at times, I find that in many cases I'd just rather have a higher density of actual spells. I imagine this will vary from list to list or playstyle to playstyle, but I don't personally like the card all that much. It was great in the slow matchups like vs. Twin or Grixis Control where you know they have a counterspell up and doing something is better than nothing, but I suspect a drop in blue in the meta.
The sideboard is fully equipped to handle a lot of different decks and have a lot of cards that work in many matchups. Keranos, God of Storms and Elspeth, Sun's Champion are the grind package against fair decks. The second Aven Mindcensor, Molten Rain, and Crumble to Dust is the anti-Tron/Bx Eldrazi package with incidental upside of having Molten Rain be a pro-active spell to use against other fair decks like Jund or Junk to gain some tempo. With Twin out of the meta, I feel comfortable siding down to 1 Dispel in the SB as it can still hit a fair amount of decks like Grixis Control, Jund (Kolaghan's Command), other control decks, Kiki-Chord (Chord of Calling), Naya Zoo/Burn (Collected Company or instant-speed burn spells), and many other potential decks. Negate, similar to Dispel, is just a very versatile counterspell to combat against combo decks, Tron, and Jund/Junk to combat a T3 Liliana of the Veil. Wear // Tear is still an incredibly versatile card, being able to destroy opposing Blood Moon, Choke, Lantern Control cards, Cranial Plating, Boggles Enchantments, and more. Celestial Purge is still a strong card these days, handling most of the delve creatures and burn creatures, as well as being an immediate answer for a Liliana of the Veil or even Blood Moon. Engineered Explosives helps against a lot of the aggressive decks in the format like Zoo or Affinity, as does Anger of the Gods. Last but not least, Timely Reinforcements is our single anti-burn card because we generally have a good matchup against them anyways. Being able to flash it back with Snapcaster Mage is the reason I play it over cards like Kor Firewalker, which are also bad when you're very far behind unlike Timely.
Some notes, questions, and concerns below.
1) I am not running Cryptic Command in the current list above. I would love peoples' thoughts on the card's viability at the moment. I think it can also be very strenuous on the manabase, forcing us to limit the amount of off-color utility lands such as Ghost Quarter, Eiganjo Castle, or Desolate Lighthouse. Unless the format proves to become a very grindy affair, I think I feel okay leaving home without Cryptic Command at the moment.
2) My counterspell suite seems a bit all over the place. Personally, I would feel more confident with a playset of Remand. I think 1 Spell Snare is a good number because there are a lot of decks that it just won't do well against. This leaves us with an odd 3-2 split between Remand and Mana Leak. I wonder if Mana Leak is even well-positioned in the format right now. It can hit Tron's tapout on T3, as well as hit the fair decks fairly well too, but I wonder if a more aggressive approach such as Spell Pierce might be stronger. The downside is that Mana Leak can hit opposing annoying creature spells, such as Tarmogoyf, Kitchen Finks, Scavenging Ooze and more. I'm not sure what I favor at the moment, but I do know that a playset of Remand is likely where I want to be so finding room for that would be helpful.
3) I would also love to find room for a second Ghost Quarter somewhere in the main because it can play very nicely with Aven Mindcensor in the main and can also be an aggressive and disruptive play against Tron and Bx Eldrazi as well as manlands from Affinity, Infect, and Jund/Junk. Also, I think a single Needle Spires could be great with maindeck Elspeth, Knight-Errant. While it is very prone to removal, it can be extremely explosive and close out games quickly in a race or top-deck mode.
4) I wouldn't mind having a Spellskite somewhere in the sideboard, but not sure what should be cut. My first thoughts on a cut are a Wear // Tear or a Celestial Purge.
5) Manabase. What is exactly is the optimal number of fetches and which ones should they be? I've seen a full playset of Flooded Strand and Scalding Tarn in a lot of lists, but if the list doesn't run Cryptic Command or other T1 blue spells, I imagine a split between Arid Mesa and Scalding Tarn could be good. Thoughts?
Summary: I think what is great about UWr Midrange is that there are a lot of different ways to approach the deck and it has yet to be optimized. I think a big part of that is how it is a very meta-dependent deck and the card choices will vary widely. I think the deck could be very favored in the upcoming meta and I would love to see all of us collaborate and find a tuned list that we can take to upcoming tournaments in the new meta.
List looks pretty good! I am in favor of cutting a 4-drop to make room for another land, though. Cryptics or not, the deck's still very mana hungry: 6 4-drops, 4 Colonnades, Snapcasters. I'd jam a 2nd utility land (e.g. Ghost Quarter) and cut an Elspeth or something. (Also, see above for why I don't like Aven Mindcensor. I think I'm in the minority, though.)
1. I'm not running Cryptic either. Trying to stay low to the ground. If aggro dominates the new meta, it's better not to have it. Also it usually isn't that great vs blue decks that pack Dispels, but it is amazing if Jund/Abzan come back up in popularity. It seems like a nice card for some reach vs Tron/Eldrazi, but I'm not sure about this.
2. No one ever agrees on the counterspells... Seems fine, though.
3. I'd cut a 4-drop for a Ghost Quarter if you want it. I don't think Needle Spires activation cost is worth it. Celestial Colonnade just seems way better for one extra mana. (Well, it also has vigilance, so it's actually the same amount of mana when attacking.) With only 2 Elspeths, it seems like Magical Christmasland to have Elspeth and Needle Spires out with 4 mana to activate the Spires and to have time to cast it.
4. Spellskite seems great. Celestial Purge is imo too powerful vs BGx to cut. Wear//Tear is cuttable esp. since there'll be less Blood Moon. Boggles will be a thing, but Spellskite gets those, too. I'd rather cut Aven Mindcensor out of the board, though.
5. I think Flooded Strand/Scalding Tarn are still the fetchlands to pick. I only ran Cryptics briefly, but I've settled on 4 Flooded Strand/3 Tarns/1 Arid Mesa. Could see cutting a Flooded Strand or two for more red fetches if aggro picks up to the point that T1 Bolt is something you really need shock-free. Blue and white are still the main colors in the deck by a fair amount, and if Blood Moon sticks around somewhere, Flooded Strand gives more Blood Moon insurance than red fetches.
How do people feel about Grim Lavamancer as a 1 or 2 of? It seems like a solid card for a tempo build, which is kind of what we are. A buddy was running them over Restoration Angel, and said it was doing good for him. I hadn't tried it in this deck, but Lavaman is a card I have liked in the past.
I think Resto provides more utility for the deck than Lavaman can. Lavamancer is good against aggro decks, but we're already good against those. It's a strong card, but I think we have better options than a 1/1 that can ping for 2
I wouldn't personally run them over Restoration Angel. That was just the biggest difference between his list and mine. I was actually thinking about cutting Cryptic down to a 1 of for a 1 of Lavaman.
I'm a Twin player trying to find a new home and I'm going to be giving this list a try. I feel it has good game against aggressive decks and fingers-crossed combo for Tron. Haven't been able to test much against Eldrazi, but I feel like the long list of must-kill threats helps. It has a lot of elements of the Twin deck, in the sense that I can attack from several angles depending on board state and game state. No idea if it will ACTUALLY be good, but if the meta gets flooded with non-interactive linear decks, it should be good. I don't know how I feel about Blood Moon in the side. I have two and ran two in Twin, but I don't know how effective it would be in hurting the other deck without also hurting myself. There are definitely slots to move things around.
Now that Twin is out of the meta, I see myself more comfortably tapping out for a strong threat Game 1, like Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Lightning Angel. Similarly, with the loss of Twin from the meta, I suspect a rise in Tron and Bx Eldrazi, which is the reason for the 1 maindeck Aven Mindcensor. Even if not against those two decks, Aven Mindcensor can just be a flash disrupter/beater and a higher density of creatures plays well with the planeswalker. The removal/burn suite is standard and something I don't think should change at all for nearly all builds.
A decision I have made is to cut the Serum Visions. Even though it was good casting the card at times, I find that in many cases I'd just rather have a higher density of actual spells. I imagine this will vary from list to list or playstyle to playstyle, but I don't personally like the card all that much. It was great in the slow matchups like vs. Twin or Grixis Control where you know they have a counterspell up and doing something is better than nothing, but I suspect a drop in blue in the meta.
The sideboard is fully equipped to handle a lot of different decks and have a lot of cards that work in many matchups. Keranos, God of Storms and Elspeth, Sun's Champion are the grind package against fair decks. The second Aven Mindcensor, Molten Rain, and Crumble to Dust is the anti-Tron/Bx Eldrazi package with incidental upside of having Molten Rain be a pro-active spell to use against other fair decks like Jund or Junk to gain some tempo. With Twin out of the meta, I feel comfortable siding down to 1 Dispel in the SB as it can still hit a fair amount of decks like Grixis Control, Jund (Kolaghan's Command), other control decks, Kiki-Chord (Chord of Calling), Naya Zoo/Burn (Collected Company or instant-speed burn spells), and many other potential decks. Negate, similar to Dispel, is just a very versatile counterspell to combat against combo decks, Tron, and Jund/Junk to combat a T3 Liliana of the Veil. Wear // Tear is still an incredibly versatile card, being able to destroy opposing Blood Moon, Choke, Lantern Control cards, Cranial Plating, Boggles Enchantments, and more. Celestial Purge is still a strong card these days, handling most of the delve creatures and burn creatures, as well as being an immediate answer for a Liliana of the Veil or even Blood Moon. Engineered Explosives helps against a lot of the aggressive decks in the format like Zoo or Affinity, as does Anger of the Gods. Last but not least, Timely Reinforcements is our single anti-burn card because we generally have a good matchup against them anyways. Being able to flash it back with Snapcaster Mage is the reason I play it over cards like Kor Firewalker, which are also bad when you're very far behind unlike Timely.
Some notes, questions, and concerns below.
1) I am not running Cryptic Command in the current list above. I would love peoples' thoughts on the card's viability at the moment. I think it can also be very strenuous on the manabase, forcing us to limit the amount of off-color utility lands such as Ghost Quarter, Eiganjo Castle, or Desolate Lighthouse. Unless the format proves to become a very grindy affair, I think I feel okay leaving home without Cryptic Command at the moment.
2) My counterspell suite seems a bit all over the place. Personally, I would feel more confident with a playset of Remand. I think 1 Spell Snare is a good number because there are a lot of decks that it just won't do well against. This leaves us with an odd 3-2 split between Remand and Mana Leak. I wonder if Mana Leak is even well-positioned in the format right now. It can hit Tron's tapout on T3, as well as hit the fair decks fairly well too, but I wonder if a more aggressive approach such as Spell Pierce might be stronger. The downside is that Mana Leak can hit opposing annoying creature spells, such as Tarmogoyf, Kitchen Finks, Scavenging Ooze and more. I'm not sure what I favor at the moment, but I do know that a playset of Remand is likely where I want to be so finding room for that would be helpful.
3) I would also love to find room for a second Ghost Quarter somewhere in the main because it can play very nicely with Aven Mindcensor in the main and can also be an aggressive and disruptive play against Tron and Bx Eldrazi as well as manlands from Affinity, Infect, and Jund/Junk. Also, I think a single Needle Spires could be great with maindeck Elspeth, Knight-Errant. While it is very prone to removal, it can be extremely explosive and close out games quickly in a race or top-deck mode.
4) I wouldn't mind having a Spellskite somewhere in the sideboard, but not sure what should be cut. My first thoughts on a cut are a Wear // Tear or a Celestial Purge.
5) Manabase. What is exactly is the optimal number of fetches and which ones should they be? I've seen a full playset of Flooded Strand and Scalding Tarn in a lot of lists, but if the list doesn't run Cryptic Command or other T1 blue spells, I imagine a split between Arid Mesa and Scalding Tarn could be good. Thoughts?
Summary: I think what is great about UWr Midrange is that there are a lot of different ways to approach the deck and it has yet to be optimized. I think a big part of that is how it is a very meta-dependent deck and the card choices will vary widely. I think the deck could be very favored in the upcoming meta and I would love to see all of us collaborate and find a tuned list that we can take to upcoming tournaments in the new meta.
List looks pretty good! I am in favor of cutting a 4-drop to make room for another land, though. Cryptics or not, the deck's still very mana hungry: 6 4-drops, 4 Colonnades, Snapcasters. I'd jam a 2nd utility land (e.g. Ghost Quarter) and cut an Elspeth or something. (Also, see above for why I don't like Aven Mindcensor. I think I'm in the minority, though.)
1. I'm not running Cryptic either. Trying to stay low to the ground. If aggro dominates the new meta, it's better not to have it. Also it usually isn't that great vs blue decks that pack Dispels, but it is amazing if Jund/Abzan come back up in popularity. It seems like a nice card for some reach vs Tron/Eldrazi, but I'm not sure about this.
2. No one ever agrees on the counterspells... Seems fine, though.
3. I'd cut a 4-drop for a Ghost Quarter if you want it. I don't think Needle Spires activation cost is worth it. Celestial Colonnade just seems way better for one extra mana. (Well, it also has vigilance, so it's actually the same amount of mana when attacking.) With only 2 Elspeths, it seems like Magical Christmasland to have Elspeth and Needle Spires out with 4 mana to activate the Spires and to have time to cast it.
4. Spellskite seems great. Celestial Purge is imo too powerful vs BGx to cut. Wear//Tear is cuttable esp. since there'll be less Blood Moon. Boggles will be a thing, but Spellskite gets those, too. I'd rather cut Aven Mindcensor out of the board, though.
5. I think Flooded Strand/Scalding Tarn are still the fetchlands to pick. I only ran Cryptics briefly, but I've settled on 4 Flooded Strand/3 Tarns/1 Arid Mesa. Could see cutting a Flooded Strand or two for more red fetches if aggro picks up to the point that T1 Bolt is something you really need shock-free. Blue and white are still the main colors in the deck by a fair amount, and if Blood Moon sticks around somewhere, Flooded Strand gives more Blood Moon insurance than red fetches.
I appreciate the response! Personally, I really like all of the 4 drops...the main reason I want to up the Remand count is to reliably cast it on T2 so that I have more chances to hit my land drops. I think 25 lands is too much for this list, even though I'd love a second Ghost Quarter in there somewhere. It's possible that I cut Aven Mindcensor from the mainboard for a 4th Remand. Why do you dislike Aven Mindcensor so much? Has it not done much for you when you used it? Too vulnerable or low impact for the new meta?
I'm a Twin player trying to find a new home and I'm going to be giving this list a try. I feel it has good game against aggressive decks and fingers-crossed combo for Tron. Haven't been able to test much against Eldrazi, but I feel like the long list of must-kill threats helps. It has a lot of elements of the Twin deck, in the sense that I can attack from several angles depending on board state and game state. No idea if it will ACTUALLY be good, but if the meta gets flooded with non-interactive linear decks, it should be good. I don't know how I feel about Blood Moon in the side. I have two and ran two in Twin, but I don't know how effective it would be in hurting the other deck without also hurting myself. There are definitely slots to move things around.
Nice to see a new take on the deck that I have personally wanted to try but haven't gotten around to testing. Let me know how it turns out for you in testing/tournaments/etc.
With that said, I do have a couple of recommendations. I think a single Cascade Bluffs will go a long way in your decklist, allowing you to reliably cast Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker without having to hurt yourself so much from fetch into shock. I would cut a Hallowed Fountain or Sacred Foundry for it. Also, it seems like a good idea for you to run at least 1 or 2 Celestial Colonnade in the decklist, too. While it doesn't play nicely with T1 Serum Visions, it allows you to play the role of the UWR Control deck when you can't seem to be comboing off or have nothing better to do with your mana in a grindy game.
Other non-manabase recommendations would be cutting a Jace, Vryn's Prodigy for something like a Pia and Kiran Nalaar, which plays very nicely your 4 copies of Restoration Angel. The reason I don't think you need 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is because aside from Serum Visions and your removal suite, you don't have that much to flashback proactively like an Inquisition of Kozilek and whatnot. It does help you dig, but it trades poorly with other removal spells and we tend to want to if not win on card advantage, at least win on tempo, something that a T2 Jace doesn't do well with. It's still a solid card which is why I think 3 should be enough. Other than that, I think you could do well with a third Lightning Helix in there to combat burn, but it isn't necessary as long as you at least add some sideboard tech to handle aggressive decks (Kor Firewalker, Timely Reinforcements, something).
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I wouldn't personally run them over Restoration Angel. That was just the biggest difference between his list and mine. I was actually thinking about cutting Cryptic down to a 1 of for a 1 of Lavaman.
Are you short of direct damage? Not sure why we need extra shocks in this deck and it competes with Snapcaster for gy resources (and Logic Knot if you run that). I personally run zero copies of Cryptic - the mana base is kind of stretched as is and likely will be placed under increasing pressure as fulminator mage becomes almost maindeckable (likely a 4x sb card at least moving forward if its price is anything to go by and the speculation that eldrazi/tron will make up a huge chunk of the meta) for many builds that we may face.
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Modern
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
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You should just be running Elspeth is the thing though. Elspeth is harder for other decks to handle, being that she's a planeswalker, and still helps to stabilize against aggro, as well as making your Geists hit harder, and helping your Snapcasters be real threats when attacking.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
Well, I'll be on something very much like JulsSkogs' list. I was thinking of getting a Crumble into the board already, so that seems good.
Yeah, that was pretty much where I was going with it all.
I picked up a Duel Deck Elspeth, Sun's Champion for the sideboard, so I think I own everything I am looking to run. JulsSkogs, what changes (if any) are you thinking of considering the recent bans?
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
WB Eldrazi and Taxes BW
But we're already good against the aggressive decks, so making that matchup better isn't really important.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
Seems like a non-bo with a lot of the cards the deck could be playing, like Cryptic and Rev. And a lot of decks are gonna be playing Blood Moon to try and hose the Eldrazi decks, which we'd be extremely vulnerable to.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Restoration Angel
2 Lightning Angel
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Aven Mindcensor
Removal/Burn (14):
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Electrolyze
Counterspells (6):
3 Remand
2 Mana Leak
1 Spell Snare
Planeswalkers (2):
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Glacial Fortress
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Molten Rain
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Wear // Tear
1 Celestial Purge
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Timely Reinforcements
Now that Twin is out of the meta, I see myself more comfortably tapping out for a strong threat Game 1, like Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Lightning Angel. Similarly, with the loss of Twin from the meta, I suspect a rise in Tron and Bx Eldrazi, which is the reason for the 1 maindeck Aven Mindcensor. Even if not against those two decks, Aven Mindcensor can just be a flash disrupter/beater and a higher density of creatures plays well with the planeswalker. The removal/burn suite is standard and something I don't think should change at all for nearly all builds.
A decision I have made is to cut the Serum Visions. Even though it was good casting the card at times, I find that in many cases I'd just rather have a higher density of actual spells. I imagine this will vary from list to list or playstyle to playstyle, but I don't personally like the card all that much. It was great in the slow matchups like vs. Twin or Grixis Control where you know they have a counterspell up and doing something is better than nothing, but I suspect a drop in blue in the meta.
The sideboard is fully equipped to handle a lot of different decks and have a lot of cards that work in many matchups. Keranos, God of Storms and Elspeth, Sun's Champion are the grind package against fair decks. The second Aven Mindcensor, Molten Rain, and Crumble to Dust is the anti-Tron/Bx Eldrazi package with incidental upside of having Molten Rain be a pro-active spell to use against other fair decks like Jund or Junk to gain some tempo. With Twin out of the meta, I feel comfortable siding down to 1 Dispel in the SB as it can still hit a fair amount of decks like Grixis Control, Jund (Kolaghan's Command), other control decks, Kiki-Chord (Chord of Calling), Naya Zoo/Burn (Collected Company or instant-speed burn spells), and many other potential decks. Negate, similar to Dispel, is just a very versatile counterspell to combat against combo decks, Tron, and Jund/Junk to combat a T3 Liliana of the Veil. Wear // Tear is still an incredibly versatile card, being able to destroy opposing Blood Moon, Choke, Lantern Control cards, Cranial Plating, Boggles Enchantments, and more. Celestial Purge is still a strong card these days, handling most of the delve creatures and burn creatures, as well as being an immediate answer for a Liliana of the Veil or even Blood Moon. Engineered Explosives helps against a lot of the aggressive decks in the format like Zoo or Affinity, as does Anger of the Gods. Last but not least, Timely Reinforcements is our single anti-burn card because we generally have a good matchup against them anyways. Being able to flash it back with Snapcaster Mage is the reason I play it over cards like Kor Firewalker, which are also bad when you're very far behind unlike Timely.
Some notes, questions, and concerns below.
1) I am not running Cryptic Command in the current list above. I would love peoples' thoughts on the card's viability at the moment. I think it can also be very strenuous on the manabase, forcing us to limit the amount of off-color utility lands such as Ghost Quarter, Eiganjo Castle, or Desolate Lighthouse. Unless the format proves to become a very grindy affair, I think I feel okay leaving home without Cryptic Command at the moment.
2) My counterspell suite seems a bit all over the place. Personally, I would feel more confident with a playset of Remand. I think 1 Spell Snare is a good number because there are a lot of decks that it just won't do well against. This leaves us with an odd 3-2 split between Remand and Mana Leak. I wonder if Mana Leak is even well-positioned in the format right now. It can hit Tron's tapout on T3, as well as hit the fair decks fairly well too, but I wonder if a more aggressive approach such as Spell Pierce might be stronger. The downside is that Mana Leak can hit opposing annoying creature spells, such as Tarmogoyf, Kitchen Finks, Scavenging Ooze and more. I'm not sure what I favor at the moment, but I do know that a playset of Remand is likely where I want to be so finding room for that would be helpful.
3) I would also love to find room for a second Ghost Quarter somewhere in the main because it can play very nicely with Aven Mindcensor in the main and can also be an aggressive and disruptive play against Tron and Bx Eldrazi as well as manlands from Affinity, Infect, and Jund/Junk. Also, I think a single Needle Spires could be great with maindeck Elspeth, Knight-Errant. While it is very prone to removal, it can be extremely explosive and close out games quickly in a race or top-deck mode.
4) I wouldn't mind having a Spellskite somewhere in the sideboard, but not sure what should be cut. My first thoughts on a cut are a Wear // Tear or a Celestial Purge.
5) Manabase. What is exactly is the optimal number of fetches and which ones should they be? I've seen a full playset of Flooded Strand and Scalding Tarn in a lot of lists, but if the list doesn't run Cryptic Command or other T1 blue spells, I imagine a split between Arid Mesa and Scalding Tarn could be good. Thoughts?
Summary: I think what is great about UWr Midrange is that there are a lot of different ways to approach the deck and it has yet to be optimized. I think a big part of that is how it is a very meta-dependent deck and the card choices will vary widely. I think the deck could be very favored in the upcoming meta and I would love to see all of us collaborate and find a tuned list that we can take to upcoming tournaments in the new meta.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
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That Eldrazi deck is a pain for UWR midrange. It goes over the top of midrange quickly, just like Tron, except it's a little more resilient to land destruction or Crumble to Dust. And yes, Lingering Souls. We'll have to see how the meta shakes out. It seems like Infect/Affinity might be able to beat that deck down consistently enough that it keeps it the Eldrazi from getting out of control.
Blood Moon is ok, but it was at its best vs Amulet. It shuts off our Colonnades, which are critical wincons against everyone, including Tron, Eldrazi, and BGx.
Crumble to Dust seems like a good option against Tron, but it feels slow vs Eldrazi. I'm trying out a couple Molten Rains. They feel similar to Fulminator Mages.
Leyline is interesting, but I've had good success with Kor Firewalker and Kitchen Finks against Burn. Timely Reinforcements is also solid. I don't think Leyline is necessary, but it's probably worth a try for the other applications if you're dealing with the other decks consistently.
I've always run 2 Stony Silence and have always liked them. They do some good work against Affinity, Tron, and Lantern Control. Not everyone's a big fan, but I am.
I may mess around with Monastery Mentor soon since I've been hearing so many good things.
Aven Mindcensor has been weak imo. I'm taking it out after the banning of Summer Bloom. I love Vendilion Clique as a flash flyer, but it looks like I'm in the minority. Clique picks out problematic cards against many decks and puts a nice clock on the opponent. I think it is particularly strong vs Tron, and I'd rather have it over Mindcensor. 3 power and 2 power are incredibly different. Also, it's important to note that Mindcensor doesn't shut off Ancient Stirrings, and it doesn't stop Ulamog/Karn/Ugin once Tron (or Eldrazi ramp) is assembled. It randomly gets fetches once in a while, but not always--the opponent won't play around it game 1, but will games 2-3. It's really much better when your whole strategy revolves around effects that get a big boost from Mindcensor, like Modern Death & Taxes.
List looks pretty good! I am in favor of cutting a 4-drop to make room for another land, though. Cryptics or not, the deck's still very mana hungry: 6 4-drops, 4 Colonnades, Snapcasters. I'd jam a 2nd utility land (e.g. Ghost Quarter) and cut an Elspeth or something. (Also, see above for why I don't like Aven Mindcensor. I think I'm in the minority, though.)
1. I'm not running Cryptic either. Trying to stay low to the ground. If aggro dominates the new meta, it's better not to have it. Also it usually isn't that great vs blue decks that pack Dispels, but it is amazing if Jund/Abzan come back up in popularity. It seems like a nice card for some reach vs Tron/Eldrazi, but I'm not sure about this.
2. No one ever agrees on the counterspells... Seems fine, though.
3. I'd cut a 4-drop for a Ghost Quarter if you want it. I don't think Needle Spires activation cost is worth it. Celestial Colonnade just seems way better for one extra mana. (Well, it also has vigilance, so it's actually the same amount of mana when attacking.) With only 2 Elspeths, it seems like Magical Christmasland to have Elspeth and Needle Spires out with 4 mana to activate the Spires and to have time to cast it.
4. Spellskite seems great. Celestial Purge is imo too powerful vs BGx to cut. Wear//Tear is cuttable esp. since there'll be less Blood Moon. Boggles will be a thing, but Spellskite gets those, too. I'd rather cut Aven Mindcensor out of the board, though.
5. I think Flooded Strand/Scalding Tarn are still the fetchlands to pick. I only ran Cryptics briefly, but I've settled on 4 Flooded Strand/3 Tarns/1 Arid Mesa. Could see cutting a Flooded Strand or two for more red fetches if aggro picks up to the point that T1 Bolt is something you really need shock-free. Blue and white are still the main colors in the deck by a fair amount, and if Blood Moon sticks around somewhere, Flooded Strand gives more Blood Moon insurance than red fetches.
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
2x Mana Leak
3x Path to Exile
4x Remand
1x Spell Snare
Creature (17)
3x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip
2x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4x Restoration Angel
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Serum Visions
Land (23)
1x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Mountain
1x Plains
2x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Celestial Purge
2x Crumble to Dust
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Spellskite
2x Stony Silence
2x Wear / Tear
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I appreciate the response! Personally, I really like all of the 4 drops...the main reason I want to up the Remand count is to reliably cast it on T2 so that I have more chances to hit my land drops. I think 25 lands is too much for this list, even though I'd love a second Ghost Quarter in there somewhere. It's possible that I cut Aven Mindcensor from the mainboard for a 4th Remand. Why do you dislike Aven Mindcensor so much? Has it not done much for you when you used it? Too vulnerable or low impact for the new meta?
Nice to see a new take on the deck that I have personally wanted to try but haven't gotten around to testing. Let me know how it turns out for you in testing/tournaments/etc.
With that said, I do have a couple of recommendations. I think a single Cascade Bluffs will go a long way in your decklist, allowing you to reliably cast Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker without having to hurt yourself so much from fetch into shock. I would cut a Hallowed Fountain or Sacred Foundry for it. Also, it seems like a good idea for you to run at least 1 or 2 Celestial Colonnade in the decklist, too. While it doesn't play nicely with T1 Serum Visions, it allows you to play the role of the UWR Control deck when you can't seem to be comboing off or have nothing better to do with your mana in a grindy game.
Other non-manabase recommendations would be cutting a Jace, Vryn's Prodigy for something like a Pia and Kiran Nalaar, which plays very nicely your 4 copies of Restoration Angel. The reason I don't think you need 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy is because aside from Serum Visions and your removal suite, you don't have that much to flashback proactively like an Inquisition of Kozilek and whatnot. It does help you dig, but it trades poorly with other removal spells and we tend to want to if not win on card advantage, at least win on tempo, something that a T2 Jace doesn't do well with. It's still a solid card which is why I think 3 should be enough. Other than that, I think you could do well with a third Lightning Helix in there to combat burn, but it isn't necessary as long as you at least add some sideboard tech to handle aggressive decks (Kor Firewalker, Timely Reinforcements, something).
Are you short of direct damage? Not sure why we need extra shocks in this deck and it competes with Snapcaster for gy resources (and Logic Knot if you run that). I personally run zero copies of Cryptic - the mana base is kind of stretched as is and likely will be placed under increasing pressure as fulminator mage becomes almost maindeckable (likely a 4x sb card at least moving forward if its price is anything to go by and the speculation that eldrazi/tron will make up a huge chunk of the meta) for many builds that we may face.
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver