What are you guy's thoughts about the new Eldrazi decks? I haven't played against one yet, but they seem tough like Tron. Are they as bad a matchup as I think? How do you sideboard? Do you get (more) aggressive?
I played against the OGW version of Eldrazi on cockatrice (Magic-league.com) the other night. Chatting to people playing the deck it seems as though the Black and colourless version - comprising Though-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher - is the 'best' build of the deck.
My game plan was to get aggressive as their late game consists of casting Ullamog reliably. I was fortunate enough to land Geist early and drew a ghost quarter to blow up eldrazi temnple (up to 2x Ghost Quarter MD atm due to Tron and Eldrazi), path some would-be blockers then a bolt or two to the dome got me there winning 2-0 overall. This version was playing 4x heartless summoning - so having ways to kill that is useful - snare, EE, Wear or Purge. Overall, it seemed as though he had a slowish hand and this match-up is likely unfavourable for us. However, if you can stick an early Geist (no concerns about Pyroclasm as you do against Tron) somehow through hand disruption and have paths (paths are critical, you may even consider maindecking a '5th Path' in valorous stance) you can get there.
I lost to Jund in the same tourney the match after - I'm currently at 2x Celestial Purge, 2x Negate, 2x Explosives sb - but even with all that damn Lili always seems to get me. Any advice on the Liliana matchup anyone?
I played against the OGW version of Eldrazi on cockatrice (Magic-league.com) the other night. Chatting to people playing the deck it seems as though the Black and colourless version - comprising Though-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher - is the 'best' build of the deck.
My game plan was to get aggressive as their late game consists of casting Ullamog reliably. I was fortunate enough to land Geist early and drew a ghost quarter to blow up eldrazi temnple (up to 2x Ghost Quarter MD atm due to Tron and Eldrazi), path some would-be blockers then a bolt or two to the dome got me there winning 2-0 overall. This version was playing 4x heartless summoning - so having ways to kill that is useful - snare, EE, Wear or Purge. Overall, it seemed as though he had a slowish hand and this match-up is likely unfavourable for us. However, if you can stick an early Geist (no concerns about Pyroclasm as you do against Tron) somehow through hand disruption and have paths (paths are critical, you may even consider maindecking a '5th Path' in valorous stance) you can get there.
I lost to Jund in the same tourney the match after - I'm currently at 2x Celestial Purge, 2x Negate, 2x Explosives sb - but even with all that damn Lili always seems to get me. Any advice on the Liliana matchup anyone?
It does seem like mana denial would be good against Eldrazi. Sticking an early Geist has been pretty good, but the path has to be kept clear for a turn or two with removal. I guess time will tell how that matchup shakes out.
Liliana is probably the most irritating card in any of the "fair" decks. I guess the first obvious tip that you probably know is to avoid jamming a Geist turn 3 on the play unless you have good reason to believe there's no Liliana on the way. Losing a Geist to the -2 is sad. If you Bolt Liliana afterward, that's a terrible 2-for-1. If you don't have a way to deal with Liliana even if you leave open mana, then I guess it's ok to accept the risks and play Geist. It helps to have a hard counter for her (Mana Leak has been ok for me). Vendilion Clique is also a nice proactive way to get a Liliana out of the opponent's hand, and Cryptic Command is great later, depending on how controlling or aggressive a build you want to run.
Burn spells aren't usually great at answering Liliana. Avoid wasting multiple Bolts or Helices on Liliana, or you'll never be able to outrace the opponent. BGx can outgrind Jeskai easily if we're throwing cards away and not dealing them damage. If Liliana -2's, then it's totally right to Electrolyze, which ends up being a 1-for-1 after the cantrip. If she's about to go ultimate, than you're also probably forced to waste a bolt on her, which sucks. But her ultimate almost always wins the game (sometimes not, so look out for those situations also). The best way to deal with a resolved Liliana at 4 loyalty is with evasive flash threats (Cliques, Restos) or Colonnades. You do need to find an answer almost immediately, so that's where Clique and Resto are nice. (Clique is generally bad vs. the Abzan build because of Lingering Souls, though.) Boros Charm got kicked around as a possibility a while ago, and it seems fine if you're encountering tons of Lilianas in your meta. It's the only burn spell that hits for 4 once she +1's. It can shoot the Liliana after everyone discards when she comes in. Also, if Liliana -2's, it's sometimes right to just throw a Snapcaster out there to sacrifice so that your Geist or other evasive threat can survive.
Thanks for the advice - I've tried boros charm before - it flips around in the valorous stance slot for me - I run one of them MD. It just seems impossible most times to have enough answers to Lili unless they somehow don't have the turn 1/2 discard up their sleeve. 2 pieces of discard followed by Lili is so often game over..
I would understand that serum visions are not needed in UWR Control. However I would lean to running serum visions in UWR Midrange. The reason UWR Midrange deck doesn't play the long game, there is the need to end the game quicker than control decks. If you are running 4x Remands and couples of Cryptic Commands than replaces itself, you can choose not to run visions. In my believe the meta has changed to more aggressive meta with burn, affinity, infect, Naya company and bloom being tier 1 and tier 2 decks tend to end the game fast. Therefore it's better to switch to 4x lightning helix, 4x path to exile and the usual 4x Lightning bolt. Remand has less impact against aggro decks, cryptic command could be too late sometimes. Electrolyze is still good for maybe 2 copies. I feel that cards that replaces itself are not as impactful as before against the current aggressive meta. You could lose gas in the middle of the game if you run more removals. Thus for decks that wish to jam 4x helix, path and mana leak, serum visions are good to setup the play. While for decks prefer to run remands instead of mana leak, electrolyze and cryptic commands, serum visions are not needed. It really depends your style of play. I would recommend running more removals due to the demand of the current meta.
The meta is pretty diverse. Local metas will do their things and you'll game accordingly but the meta as it stands now has a lot of variety in it. One thing I'm finding with my deck is I don't know whether I should run 3 or 4 of some things, whether I should play one of a couple of cards in case so I don't need to board them in, the meta is just very diverse. One thing I like about UWR is that it is flexible, you can definitely make a lot of people play your game.
This list took down a God Of Modern tournament at hareruya at the end of November last year. It's a pretty standard list for the most part with some very interesting tech choices. http://www.hareruyamtg.com/jp/k/kD02503S/
The land base, is the 1st thing about this deck that perked my interest. 24 lands, 3 colonnades and 1 cavern of souls as well as the additional basic plains for blood moon out of the side board.
4 colonnades have pretty much always been the standard in this deck, but I can definitely think reasons to cut down to 3.
Firstly, if there has been an upswing of aggressive non-interactive decks like infect and to a lesser extent burn or affinity around, having CIPT lands early on especially on the draw can lose you the game as you want to be able to interact straight away from the get go.
Cavern of souls on the other hand, is quite a curious addition and not so straightforward to use properly. It doesn't produce colored mana except for creatures, and the uncounterable clause is irrelevant is non-blue match ups. Using it in a blue match up however has quite some nuances. Is calling spirit to resolve geist or wizard for snapcaster/clique more important ?
The main deck EE is definitely interesting and warrants testing.
Sideboard wise is pretty standard other than the blood moons. People generally don't expect that from this deck and it can lead to disgusting blow outs.
----------------------
My thoughts on the archetype going forward,
Serum visions is definitely a meta dependant card. Personally I don't think it's necessary especially if your local meta is full of decks that force you to play the control role most of the time.
To echo the sentiments of some posters, it's better when you're digging for specific cards. It's a good card, but it's better in the other blue decks than ours and I think having 2 is the right number if you want to run any at all.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Cavern of souls on the other hand, is quite a curious addition and not so straightforward to use properly. It doesn't produce colored mana except for creatures, and the uncounterable clause is irrelevant is non-blue match ups. Using it in a blue match up however has quite some nuances. Is calling spirit to resolve geist or wizard for snapcaster/clique more important ?
Twin is basically gone and Amulet Bloom has been neutered. How do we adapt?
We've always talked about Restoration Angel as being a great flash-beater that lines up well against Twin. Is it still necessary in large numbers? Is the flash part necessary anymore? It's hard to say what we should do as a whole because we don't know where the meta will shift. Still, let's open the gate for discussion and see what we should be doing with our deck.
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I suspect Tron will see an increase in play, which might spawn the increase of hyper-aggressive strategies such as Burn, Infect, Affinity, or Delver-style decks. We still have strong game against them and it would just be a matter of proper sideboarding or maindeck hate to deal with the rest of the format. I do think the gravitation towards hyper aggressive strategies will happen regardless of Tron because less Twin means less Lightning Bolt in the format, something those decks love to see.
Regardless, I don't think our deck is too lost or scarred due to the loss of Twin. If classic control decks come back in the format, Geist still does great work and we have lots of flash threats. Sweepers is the only thing we'd need to be careful for. But this is all speculation. I know for certain that after the prerelease tomorrow, I'm going back to the drawing board.
As always, keep us informed with your playtesting GreatNate.
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Ya Nate - indeed. The only consolation is that we don't have to face Bloom. However, this is not a net positive by any stretch of the imagination.
Plus side: Affinity and Infect rise - Im totally happy with this - great news!
Negative side: Tron rises - this is not super dooper bad - but IMO an unfavourable match-up. I think Eldrazi will continue to rise regardless of this announcement and a deck we have to think about anyway - seems unfavourable for us..
Infect and Burn will go up because Tron hates that.
We're positioned in a way to deal with both. We can hose Tron off the sideboard, if Infect / Tron become super big mainboard Ghost Quarters might not be a bad idea.
Hey guys, trying out new decks to see which is the best option for my 1st pick deck to something competitive, and Jeskai midrange seems like its in a good position to become a powerful deck in this meta. Here is what I am working on, I notice a lack of Serum Visions across lists, and i personally love the digging power it has, and fixes difficult hands better.
Some features of the deck:
4x Serum Visions, already talked about it earlier, love the early, mid, late game potential of the card.
3x resto and 3x geist, with the loss of twin, we don't have to worry about tapping out T3 as much, so an increase of geist is a good start, and i love resto when it comes to grindy matches, and its also a decent clock, helped me beat a GBx version of eldrazi
3x Colonnade 1x Wandering Fumarole Testing out Fumarole to see how good of a card it is, and it taps for UR which is nice in the deck. It is sometimes better than colonnade because it can attack a turn earlier, still testing it, but i like the 3/1 split between the two.
2x Stony Silence SB Affinity, tron, eldrazi HATE this card, click here to find out why! /s
Everything else to me seems pretty standard. Thoughts? Recommendations?
This might be a stretch -and I know Geist of Saint Traft is widely considered the best threat for this deck around these parts- but with less twin, there should be less Lightning Bolt; could we see Mantis Rider become a more viable threat? I personally have always liked Mantis Rider, putting a lot of pressure on your opponent really fast, and allowing us to play both offense and defense pretty effectively. What do we think?
I've played Mantis Rider and Lightning Angel both, and I think if you want one of those, you want Angel. There's still plenty of Bolts around, as well as Abrupt Decay, though that may see a small downturn now due to Twin not being around.
My game plan was to get aggressive as their late game consists of casting Ullamog reliably. I was fortunate enough to land Geist early and drew a ghost quarter to blow up eldrazi temnple (up to 2x Ghost Quarter MD atm due to Tron and Eldrazi), path some would-be blockers then a bolt or two to the dome got me there winning 2-0 overall. This version was playing 4x heartless summoning - so having ways to kill that is useful - snare, EE, Wear or Purge. Overall, it seemed as though he had a slowish hand and this match-up is likely unfavourable for us. However, if you can stick an early Geist (no concerns about Pyroclasm as you do against Tron) somehow through hand disruption and have paths (paths are critical, you may even consider maindecking a '5th Path' in valorous stance) you can get there.
I lost to Jund in the same tourney the match after - I'm currently at 2x Celestial Purge, 2x Negate, 2x Explosives sb - but even with all that damn Lili always seems to get me. Any advice on the Liliana matchup anyone?
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
It does seem like mana denial would be good against Eldrazi. Sticking an early Geist has been pretty good, but the path has to be kept clear for a turn or two with removal. I guess time will tell how that matchup shakes out.
Liliana is probably the most irritating card in any of the "fair" decks. I guess the first obvious tip that you probably know is to avoid jamming a Geist turn 3 on the play unless you have good reason to believe there's no Liliana on the way. Losing a Geist to the -2 is sad. If you Bolt Liliana afterward, that's a terrible 2-for-1. If you don't have a way to deal with Liliana even if you leave open mana, then I guess it's ok to accept the risks and play Geist. It helps to have a hard counter for her (Mana Leak has been ok for me). Vendilion Clique is also a nice proactive way to get a Liliana out of the opponent's hand, and Cryptic Command is great later, depending on how controlling or aggressive a build you want to run.
Burn spells aren't usually great at answering Liliana. Avoid wasting multiple Bolts or Helices on Liliana, or you'll never be able to outrace the opponent. BGx can outgrind Jeskai easily if we're throwing cards away and not dealing them damage. If Liliana -2's, then it's totally right to Electrolyze, which ends up being a 1-for-1 after the cantrip. If she's about to go ultimate, than you're also probably forced to waste a bolt on her, which sucks. But her ultimate almost always wins the game (sometimes not, so look out for those situations also). The best way to deal with a resolved Liliana at 4 loyalty is with evasive flash threats (Cliques, Restos) or Colonnades. You do need to find an answer almost immediately, so that's where Clique and Resto are nice. (Clique is generally bad vs. the Abzan build because of Lingering Souls, though.) Boros Charm got kicked around as a possibility a while ago, and it seems fine if you're encountering tons of Lilianas in your meta. It's the only burn spell that hits for 4 once she +1's. It can shoot the Liliana after everyone discards when she comes in. Also, if Liliana -2's, it's sometimes right to just throw a Snapcaster out there to sacrifice so that your Geist or other evasive threat can survive.
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
The meta is pretty diverse. Local metas will do their things and you'll game accordingly but the meta as it stands now has a lot of variety in it. One thing I'm finding with my deck is I don't know whether I should run 3 or 4 of some things, whether I should play one of a couple of cards in case so I don't need to board them in, the meta is just very diverse. One thing I like about UWR is that it is flexible, you can definitely make a lot of people play your game.
http://www.hareruyamtg.com/jp/k/kD02503S/
The tournament format is 9 rounds then top 8.
Videos of the tournament can be found here : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-HjF9Jl-4X1R34OpbTQzGvA6ZhcnPkSg
3 celestial colonnade
4 flooded strand
2 ghost quarter
1 hallowed fountain
2 island
1 mountain
2 plains
1 sacred foundry
3 scalding tarn
2 steam vents
2 sulfure falls
4 geist of saint traft
3 restoration angel
4 snapcaster mage
2 vendilion clique
2 cryptic command
2 electrolyze
4 lightning bolt
4 path to exile
4 lightning helix
4 remand
2 spell snare
1 engineered explosives
1 keranos, god of storms
1 counterflux
2 dispel
2 wear // tear
2 timely reinforcements
1 wrath of god
2 blood moon
2 stony silence
1 engineered explosives
The land base, is the 1st thing about this deck that perked my interest. 24 lands, 3 colonnades and 1 cavern of souls as well as the additional basic plains for blood moon out of the side board.
4 colonnades have pretty much always been the standard in this deck, but I can definitely think reasons to cut down to 3.
Firstly, if there has been an upswing of aggressive non-interactive decks like infect and to a lesser extent burn or affinity around, having CIPT lands early on especially on the draw can lose you the game as you want to be able to interact straight away from the get go.
Cavern of souls on the other hand, is quite a curious addition and not so straightforward to use properly. It doesn't produce colored mana except for creatures, and the uncounterable clause is irrelevant is non-blue match ups. Using it in a blue match up however has quite some nuances. Is calling spirit to resolve geist or wizard for snapcaster/clique more important ?
The main deck EE is definitely interesting and warrants testing.
Sideboard wise is pretty standard other than the blood moons. People generally don't expect that from this deck and it can lead to disgusting blow outs.
----------------------
My thoughts on the archetype going forward,
Serum visions is definitely a meta dependant card. Personally I don't think it's necessary especially if your local meta is full of decks that force you to play the control role most of the time.
To echo the sentiments of some posters, it's better when you're digging for specific cards. It's a good card, but it's better in the other blue decks than ours and I think having 2 is the right number if you want to run any at all.
You can also name Cleric and bluff UWr Twin
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
UWR Control/Midrange/Delver
UWR TwinMiss youGBWJunk (still semi-budget; 3 tarmo only)
GWAura Hexproof
GWHatebears
We've always talked about Restoration Angel as being a great flash-beater that lines up well against Twin. Is it still necessary in large numbers? Is the flash part necessary anymore? It's hard to say what we should do as a whole because we don't know where the meta will shift. Still, let's open the gate for discussion and see what we should be doing with our deck.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/january-18-2016-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2016-01-18
Regardless, I don't think our deck is too lost or scarred due to the loss of Twin. If classic control decks come back in the format, Geist still does great work and we have lots of flash threats. Sweepers is the only thing we'd need to be careful for. But this is all speculation. I know for certain that after the prerelease tomorrow, I'm going back to the drawing board.
As always, keep us informed with your playtesting GreatNate.
Plus side: Affinity and Infect rise - Im totally happy with this - great news!
Negative side: Tron rises - this is not super dooper bad - but IMO an unfavourable match-up. I think Eldrazi will continue to rise regardless of this announcement and a deck we have to think about anyway - seems unfavourable for us..
Will be interested to hear what you think Nate..
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Infect and Burn will go up because Tron hates that.
We're positioned in a way to deal with both. We can hose Tron off the sideboard, if Infect / Tron become super big mainboard Ghost Quarters might not be a bad idea.
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Restoration Angel
Instant 20
2 Cryptic Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
3 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
3 Path to Exile
2 Electrolyze
Land 25
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Wandering Fumarole
4 Serum Visions
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Dispel
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Negate
2 Wear // Tear
1 Celestial Purge
2 Stony Silence
1 Supreme Verdict
Some features of the deck:
4x Serum Visions, already talked about it earlier, love the early, mid, late game potential of the card.
3x resto and 3x geist, with the loss of twin, we don't have to worry about tapping out T3 as much, so an increase of geist is a good start, and i love resto when it comes to grindy matches, and its also a decent clock, helped me beat a GBx version of eldrazi
3x Colonnade 1x Wandering Fumarole Testing out Fumarole to see how good of a card it is, and it taps for UR which is nice in the deck. It is sometimes better than colonnade because it can attack a turn earlier, still testing it, but i like the 3/1 split between the two.
2x Stony Silence SB Affinity, tron, eldrazi HATE this card, click here to find out why! /s
Everything else to me seems pretty standard. Thoughts? Recommendations?
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Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
Does this deck have a chance to go up?
Stay crunchy in milk
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control