What is the appropriate number of Vendilion Clique, 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4?
Depends on the meta you're bringing UWr to. Based on the New Top Ten Decks in Modern I'd say 0 is the right number for a large tournament. Based on those decks, here's my take on UWr's best 75:
Explanations for choices:
Two damage goes far in the current meta. Grim Lavamancer has 5+ creature targets in every deck and can always go to the face.
Restoration Angel has no creatures that can block it profitably and is only removed by Maelstrom Pulse, Terminate, Path to Exile, and Galvanic Blast. It also blocks very well against most of the decks, and for these reasons, I'm running a full playset.
There are only three copies of Path to Exile in the top 10 decks, all in Abzan. Kolaghan's Command is very popular so I think the best choice for 5 drops is Thundermaw over Stormbreath Dragon or Batterskull.
Some spells, such as Collected Company, are better off being answered permanently, so I'm running a 3:2 split of Remand and Mana Leak. Spell Snare has plenty of targets in every deck so I think it's time to get back on a couple copies of it. Forked Bolt is huge right now, so huge that I'd almost consider a second copy. Turn 1 kill Noble Hierarch, Birds of Paradise, Goblin Guide, Monastery Swiftspear, Glistener Elf, Delver of Secrets, Affinity creatures, and anything Elves, is just amazing. It's relevant later in the game and goes to the face when you can't find a target. Also works great with Snapcaster, something that Electrolyze has more trouble with.
Many decks have under 20 lands, making Tectonic Edge useless. There are enough manlands that I think Ghost Quarter is still necessary, so I'm sticking with 2.
Every sideboard choice is useful against more than one of these top 10 decks, but I'm sure more testing is needed to get a perfect 15.
How have you been finding Grim Lavamancer? I've wanted to try him for a long time now in an aggressive Geist Shell as he seems 100% on plan, and allows the deck to generate extra value, which is something I think it could use more of. My only concern was that since we aren't running can trips, we'd have more trouble fueling him.
What is the appropriate number of Vendilion Clique, 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4?
Depends on the meta you're bringing UWr to. Based on the New Top Ten Decks in Modern I'd say 0 is the right number for a large tournament. Based on those decks, here's my take on UWr's best 75:
Explanations for choices:
Two damage goes far in the current meta. Grim Lavamancer has 5+ creature targets in every deck and can always go to the face.
Restoration Angel has no creatures that can block it profitably and is only removed by Maelstrom Pulse, Terminate, Path to Exile, and Galvanic Blast. It also blocks very well against most of the decks, and for these reasons, I'm running a full playset.
There are only three copies of Path to Exile in the top 10 decks, all in Abzan. Kolaghan's Command is very popular so I think the best choice for 5 drops is Thundermaw over Stormbreath Dragon or Batterskull.
Some spells, such as Collected Company, are better off being answered permanently, so I'm running a 3:2 split of Remand and Mana Leak. Spell Snare has plenty of targets in every deck so I think it's time to get back on a couple copies of it. Forked Bolt is huge right now, so huge that I'd almost consider a second copy. Turn 1 kill Noble Hierarch, Birds of Paradise, Goblin Guide, Monastery Swiftspear, Glistener Elf, Delver of Secrets, Affinity creatures, and anything Elves, is just amazing. It's relevant later in the game and goes to the face when you can't find a target. Also works great with Snapcaster, something that Electrolyze has more trouble with.
Many decks have under 20 lands, making Tectonic Edge useless. There are enough manlands that I think Ghost Quarter is still necessary, so I'm sticking with 2.
Every sideboard choice is useful against more than one of these top 10 decks, but I'm sure more testing is needed to get a perfect 15.
I think Burst Lightning is better than Forked Bolt. Instant speed is useful against Swiftspear and Goblin Guide. Plus, you can do it for 4 late game if it comes to that, possibly killing tarmogoyfs Loxodon Smiters, Celestial Colonnades, etc. Also, I think Stormbreath Dragon is still better than Thundermaw becaue of the late game option of monstrosity. A lot of matchups end up getting grindy.
I'm messing around with the sideboard. Is it better to have Fulminator Mage or Molten Rain for this deck? Mainly for Tron but for other matchups as well.
I'm messing around with the sideboard. Is it better to have Fulminator Mage or Molten Rain for this deck? Mainly for Tron but for other matchups as well.
My inclination is that Molten Rain is better, since your generally getting the damage as well as the fact that it can be flashed back with a Snapcaster.
I'm messing around with the sideboard. Is it better to have Fulminator Mage or Molten Rain for this deck? Mainly for Tron but for other matchups as well.
My inclination is that Molten Rain is better, since your generally getting the damage as well as the fact that it can be flashed back with a Snapcaster.
Is Stone Rain legal? We might just want the single red mana cost.
Yes, Stone Rain is legal. I don't think the double red is a problem. Bolt Snap Bolt is double red afterall. The extra damage will help the clock, as either one is going to be a tempo play.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
They are very different decks with well over 20 cards that are different. It shouldnt be posted here. WRU is very "Burn everything, put giest out win." Bant is "Play giest as a strong creature with a lot of strong creatures." Different deck game plans. Please keep bant talk in the bant thread.
I've been farting around with Geist of Saint Win again, and I took out 2 top-end flex spots to try out Ojutai Exemplars. I was thinking it would be decent against Abzan Midrange...
...and it was. It's easy enough to block a 4/5 with Exemplars (or watch them block Exemplars with a 4/5), then burn the 4/5 and give Exemplars First Strike, thus killing the 4/5 and keeping Exemplars. It also doesn't get hit by that many of Abzan's removal spells, and casting an instant other than Remand takes care of the rest of the spot removal (although it has a hard time dodging Liliana). I'm still hoping to achieve the wet dream of tapping blockers out of Traft's way with Exemplars, but when Exemplars works, it definitely works.
Shame that actually keeping instants in hand can be a bit tricky against Abzan...I sometimes have to be ballsy and slam Exemplars while it's vulnerable.
I also tried Exemplars for a bit against Abzan Liege, Grixis Delver, and Twin, and results were also fairly good. As predicted, Exemplars completely bossed around the combat phase against Liege (although, sometimes, fending off attacks for 5 turns straight isn't enough). Exemplars was decent against Delver, just like against Abzan Midrange. Exemplars was slow to land against Twin, but it's hard to nail with double burn, and I even had a game where two Exemplars started tapping their guys and Lifelinking like a boss, then they tried to stick a Twin, I smell a rat and PtE their Exarch and tap it and a Tiago in response, then they Dispel the PtE but have Twin on a tapped Exarch, and I swing back FTW.
Of course, as a white midrange breaker that slaps combat silly, comparisons to Gideon Jura are inevitable. I suppose Gideon can be more vulnerable to creature removal and costs 1 mana more, but a mere Slaughter Pact never stops him from effectively blocking a 4/5 (unlike Exemplars, who got Pacted against Abzan once, so I cast an instant in response to save it, but it ended up tapped and couldn't block that lethal-swinging Siege Rhino).
Interesting idea, Lectrys. I like that it's out of bolt range and can dodge everything else assuming you have another mana open, but that essentially makes it a five drop and I'm not sure if it performs better than a dragon would. I've also been messing around with a rogue addition to the deck:
Gain life equal to the power of a creature attacking you.
Early game beatstick that no one wants to spend removal on.
Think it's worth a shot as a one of? It's like a one mana command. The main reason I thought of it was to keep Liliana from killing Geist, but it has surprisingly many interactions.
I already have him in the sideboard. This is my current list. I just cut Batterskull and put in Cryptic Command, but am not sure if that's the best replacement.
Yeah, your build has enough aggression doesn't seem to need it. Likely awkward with the curve. An extra Cryptic sounds fine. As it is, a 1-of seems out of place. Either that or drop the Cryptics entirely and just go to 3 Electrolyze.
In case your wondering, I have lots of slow grind cards in the board because of match ups like Junk and Jund becoming popular. The metagame is shifting to midrange grind battles and I want to be prepared for it. Let me know which (2) of these (3) cards I should run in my sideboard. Jace, Architect of Thought, Sphinx's Revelation, or Keranos, God of Storms. Or, if you have a better midrange grind card in mind, also let me know. I might make room for 3 of these types of cards but I'm not sure yet.
In case your wondering, I have lots of slow grind cards in the board because of match ups like Junk and Jund becoming popular. The metagame is shifting to midrange grind battles and I want to be prepared for it. Let me know which (2) of these (3) cards I should run in my sideboard. Jace, Architect of Thought, Sphinx's Revelation, or Keranos, God of Storms. Or, if you have a better midrange grind card in mind, also let me know. I might make room for 3 of these types of cards but I'm not sure yet.
Given those options I'd run Jace and Sphinx's Revelation. I'm not a fan of Keranos against BGx since he can rarely kill any creatures and is often just Bolting the opponent which is pretty slow. However, I would play Gideon Jura and/or Elspeth Knight-Errant over those. Those cards are insane against BGx, especially Jund. Gideon can just sit there removing creatures and Elspeth can't be profitably dealt with by BGx except by Maelstrom Pulse, Lingering Souls tokens, or Olivia Voldaren. With your deck I would probably lean towards Elspeth since it is sweet with Geist of Saint Traft and Gideon gets a lot better with hard counterspells or discard backing him up so he doesn't die to Path or Terminate when you attack with him.
In case your wondering, I have lots of slow grind cards in the board because of match ups like Junk and Jund becoming popular. The metagame is shifting to midrange grind battles and I want to be prepared for it. Let me know which (2) of these (3) cards I should run in my sideboard. Jace, Architect of Thought, Sphinx's Revelation, or Keranos, God of Storms. Or, if you have a better midrange grind card in mind, also let me know. I might make room for 3 of these types of cards but I'm not sure yet.
Given those options I'd run Jace and Sphinx's Revelation. I'm not a fan of Keranos against BGx since he can rarely kill any creatures and is often just Bolting the opponent which is pretty slow. However, I would play Gideon Jura and/or Elspeth Knight-Errant over those. Those cards are insane against BGx, especially Jund. Gideon can just sit there removing creatures and Elspeth can't be profitably dealt with by BGx except by Maelstrom Pulse, Lingering Souls tokens, or Olivia Voldaren. With your deck I would probably lean towards Elspeth since it is sweet with Geist of Saint Traft and Gideon gets a lot better with hard counterspells or discard backing him up so he doesn't die to Path or Terminate when you attack with him.
Thanks for the input. I actually forgot about Gideon, but I do agree he is in a great spot right now. I wouldn't hate 1 Elspeth main board actually. She's only "bad" against infect and affinity really, but as a one-of I don't think it matters as bad. What card do you suggest removing from my sideboard for Gideon?
It functions very similarly to tarmotwin, having a fast clock while always threathening the combo, making your opponent reluctant to tap out. You take a bit more damage from shocklands especially because of Serum Visions, but I feel it is necessary to have some dig in this deck.
Hey Khainn, let us know how the FNM goes. I've seen some lists with Grim Lavamancer in them, and I am curious how well they perform. I plan on attending a PPTQ on Saturday and the lava man is one of the cards I've been considering.
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How have you been finding Grim Lavamancer? I've wanted to try him for a long time now in an aggressive Geist Shell as he seems 100% on plan, and allows the deck to generate extra value, which is something I think it could use more of. My only concern was that since we aren't running can trips, we'd have more trouble fueling him.
My inclination is that Molten Rain is better, since your generally getting the damage as well as the fact that it can be flashed back with a Snapcaster.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Is Stone Rain legal? We might just want the single red mana cost.
Sowing Salt > Molten Rain > Stone Rain
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
...and it was. It's easy enough to block a 4/5 with Exemplars (or watch them block Exemplars with a 4/5), then burn the 4/5 and give Exemplars First Strike, thus killing the 4/5 and keeping Exemplars. It also doesn't get hit by that many of Abzan's removal spells, and casting an instant other than Remand takes care of the rest of the spot removal (although it has a hard time dodging Liliana). I'm still hoping to achieve the wet dream of tapping blockers out of Traft's way with Exemplars, but when Exemplars works, it definitely works.
Shame that actually keeping instants in hand can be a bit tricky against Abzan...I sometimes have to be ballsy and slam Exemplars while it's vulnerable.
I also tried Exemplars for a bit against Abzan Liege, Grixis Delver, and Twin, and results were also fairly good. As predicted, Exemplars completely bossed around the combat phase against Liege (although, sometimes, fending off attacks for 5 turns straight isn't enough). Exemplars was decent against Delver, just like against Abzan Midrange. Exemplars was slow to land against Twin, but it's hard to nail with double burn, and I even had a game where two Exemplars started tapping their guys and Lifelinking like a boss, then they tried to stick a Twin, I smell a rat and PtE their Exarch and tap it and a Tiago in response, then they Dispel the PtE but have Twin on a tapped Exarch, and I swing back FTW.
Of course, as a white midrange breaker that slaps combat silly, comparisons to Gideon Jura are inevitable. I suppose Gideon can be more vulnerable to creature removal and costs 1 mana more, but a mere Slaughter Pact never stops him from effectively blocking a 4/5 (unlike Exemplars, who got Pacted against Abzan once, so I cast an instant in response to save it, but it ended up tapped and couldn't block that lethal-swinging Siege Rhino).
Beckon Apparition W
Instant
Exile target card from a graveyard:
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Restoration Angel
Other Spells: 21
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Electrolyze
1 Forked Bolt
1 Cryptic Command
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Molten Rain
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Stony Silence
1 Wear // Tear
1 Valorous Stance
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Negate
1 Dispel
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Sulfer Falls
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Restoration Angel
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
2 Electrolyze
2 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Wrath of God
1 Negate
2 Counterflux
1 Dispel
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Wear / Tear
In case your wondering, I have lots of slow grind cards in the board because of match ups like Junk and Jund becoming popular. The metagame is shifting to midrange grind battles and I want to be prepared for it. Let me know which (2) of these (3) cards I should run in my sideboard. Jace, Architect of Thought, Sphinx's Revelation, or Keranos, God of Storms. Or, if you have a better midrange grind card in mind, also let me know. I might make room for 3 of these types of cards but I'm not sure yet.
Given those options I'd run Jace and Sphinx's Revelation. I'm not a fan of Keranos against BGx since he can rarely kill any creatures and is often just Bolting the opponent which is pretty slow. However, I would play Gideon Jura and/or Elspeth Knight-Errant over those. Those cards are insane against BGx, especially Jund. Gideon can just sit there removing creatures and Elspeth can't be profitably dealt with by BGx except by Maelstrom Pulse, Lingering Souls tokens, or Olivia Voldaren. With your deck I would probably lean towards Elspeth since it is sweet with Geist of Saint Traft and Gideon gets a lot better with hard counterspells or discard backing him up so he doesn't die to Path or Terminate when you attack with him.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Thanks for the input. I actually forgot about Gideon, but I do agree he is in a great spot right now. I wouldn't hate 1 Elspeth main board actually. She's only "bad" against infect and affinity really, but as a one-of I don't think it matters as bad. What card do you suggest removing from my sideboard for Gideon?
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
spells
4 Remand
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 Electrolyze
2 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
lands
3 Celestial Colonnade
3 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Counterflux
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Batterskull
2 Wear // Tear
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Celestial Purge
2 Engineered Explosives
It functions very similarly to tarmotwin, having a fast clock while always threathening the combo, making your opponent reluctant to tap out. You take a bit more damage from shocklands especially because of Serum Visions, but I feel it is necessary to have some dig in this deck.