It's back! TCG/SCG States events were very favorable for UWR Midrange, catapulting the archetype from <1% of the metagame back to 2% of paper. Part of this is the increased relevance of Bolt in Modern. Another part of this is the continued importance of a proactive game plan, and UWR Midrange combines the best of red/white based removal with the best of UWR aggression. This deck keeps bouncing up and down in the metagame as it competes with UWR Control for the notice of UWR players, and it has suffered a lot in past months because of its inability to support the delve midrange monsters that are defining other decks. But its recent successes are great news for UWR players everywhere, and I hope to see the deck stick around in the coming months.
So it's still a bad matchup. Stony silence doesnt do much here in my opinion. Most of the time they go T1 Land + egg and then they have stirrings and scrying. It only helps against o-stone
The GR Tron matchup is around 50/50 for UWR Geist I think. Stony Silence will often just stop them dead. They generally play around 19 activating artifacts and will often rely on them to get colored mana by cracking their eggs. Eggs can't be cracked with Stony Silence in play. If you're on the play, and they go turn one Urzaland and egg, and you follow up with Stony Silence, they'll have many dead cards and a fairly low chance of getting tron online anytime soon.
So it's still a bad matchup. Stony silence doesnt do much here in my opinion. Most of the time they go T1 Land + egg and then they have stirrings and scrying. It only helps against o-stone
The GR Tron matchup is around 50/50 for UWR Geist I think. Stony Silence will often just stop them dead. They generally play around 19 activating artifacts and will often rely on them to get colored mana by cracking their eggs. Eggs can't be cracked with Stony Silence in play. If you're on the play, and they go turn one Urzaland and egg, and you follow up with Stony Silence, they'll have many dead cards and a fairly low chance of getting tron online anytime soon.
Cards that will help against Tron:
-Aven Mindcensor to prevent, at the very least limit them from searching their library
-Ghost Quarter, because Tectonic Edge's 4-land requirement often means it comes in too late against Tron
-Molten Rain, because you need to slow them down, and Tron often times use their own Ghost Quarter on one of their own Trolands if you play a Sowing Salt on a Tron land. Also, Sowing Salt comes a turn later, which is why Molten Rain coming a turn earlier is a pretty big deal.
-Vendilion Clique, not great against Tron but its flash allows it to dodge a sweeper and swing the next turn. Also, if you're lucky it can snipe a Karn.
So it's still a bad matchup. Stony silence doesnt do much here in my opinion. Most of the time they go T1 Land + egg and then they have stirrings and scrying. It only helps against o-stone
The GR Tron matchup is around 50/50 for UWR Geist I think. Stony Silence will often just stop them dead. They generally play around 19 activating artifacts and will often rely on them to get colored mana by cracking their eggs. Eggs can't be cracked with Stony Silence in play. If you're on the play, and they go turn one Urzaland and egg, and you follow up with Stony Silence, they'll have many dead cards and a fairly low chance of getting tron online anytime soon.
Cards that will help against Tron:
-Aven Mindcensor to prevent, at the very least limit them from searching their library
-Ghost Quarter, because Tectonic Edge's 4-land requirement often means it comes in too late against Tron
-Molten Rain, because you need to slow them down, and Tron often times use their own Ghost Quarter on one of their own Trolands if you play a Sowing Salt on a Tron land. Also, Sowing Salt comes a turn later, which is why Molten Rain coming a turn earlier is a pretty big deal.
-Vendilion Clique, not great against Tron but its flash allows it to dodge a sweeper and swing the next turn. Also, if you're lucky it can snipe a Tron land or a Karn.
To clarify, Vedilion Clique can only grab non land cards. Therefor, It won't be taking any Tron lands from them.
What do you think about Brimaz, King of Oreskos in 2-3 copies instead of V. Clique/Blade Splicer? He dodges Bolt, Helix, Electrolyze and can take game on it's own. He's great when we're ahead or behind. AND he can be pumped with Shinka!
I like him, and I think there is potential there, but I cannot see cutting any of the other creatures for him. Clique is far and away better and I wouldn't want him over Resto. Perhaps he's better than some of the 5-drops? I dunno, seems like most of our other options are better right now.
His main issue is that he doesn't do anything when he hits the board. He isn't particularly big, so will be outclassed by many of the other ground creatures. He has no evasion, or protection. Lastly, he requires WW.
Perhaps meta specific. If low aggro decks are really popular then he could be good.
UWR's matchups don't vary all that much. We have a pretty decent game against the field, but not many very good or very bad ones. The deck can be tuned to beat most other decks, but cant be setup to beat everything. IMHO it breaks down along these lines:
Hard Matchups: Tron, Junk, BW Tokens, Burn
Ok Matchups: Infect, Twin, Affinity, Merfolk, Zoo, Martyr Life
Good Matchups: Bloom Titan, Scapeshift, Storm
Discard tends to be pretty bad for us. Tron goes over the top and Burn is pretty relentless. Most of our other Matchups are manageable to good. A lot of the time we will be the underdog game 1 but post sideboard have the advantage.
Concerning the 4/5s. You could run Combust for Twin as it has flexibility vs Seige Rhino. I don't know if Roast is good enough for Modern, but it does kill many commonly sized Tarmogoyfs as well as Rhino, Tasigur, and Angler.
Actually, Lingering Souls is often a bigger problem than the beaters. Path generally does the heavy lifting there. However, Souls makes for a board state we can't effectively answer without a sweeper.
This is part of why I prefer having a transitional game plan in the sideboard (in reality we only really have to have 4 slots in the SB to swap out Geist). Some Matchups the control version of the deck is better positioned. Some Matchups the aggressive half is what you want.
Glad to hear you did well. This is a silly question, but I am wondering, why do we need 25 lands when Esper Mentor only runs 22 lands? Could we go down to 24 lands?
I actually ran 24 lands for a long time. This was before I got my Colonnades. I played 2 Scry Lands, 1 Faerie Conclave, then the rest of the mana base was normal. It held together with 24 lands, but I still think 25 is the right answer. I play stormbreath dragon and Batterskull, so I really like hitting 5 lands on time. Plus you aren't really punished for flood too badly. Celestial Colonade + Spell is good. And electrolyze and being able to play whatever card you draw is helpful.
I found myself losing a lot of grindy matchups. Grixis Delver could even grind harder than me. So, I added 1 Sphinx's Revelation, 1 Electrolyze, 2 Cryptic Command. This build also allows me to bring in Supreme Verdict against Tarmogoyf and friends .deck. I can just take out geist, insert Verdict and Stormbreath Drag and I can out grind just about any green base deck like jund abzan or whatever. Putting in these high end spells doesn't hurt the aggro matchups as much as you would think. Previously, I would lose to aggro because I stabalize, but don't have many spells that really seal the deal, then die to a creature or burn spell off the top. Cryptic Command really closes out most chances of winning for my opponent once I stabalize. Not to mention topdecking a Sphinx's Rev after the dust settles REALLY stops most decks in their tracks. We have some of the best early reaction spells in Modern, they allow us to live until turn 6 against almost any deck, allowing time for Crytics, Dragons, and Revelation to take over. You get all of this while still accidentally winning off T3 Geist with backup.
Glad to hear you did well. This is a silly question, but I am wondering, why do we need 25 lands when Esper Mentor only runs 22 lands? Could we go down to 24 lands?
If you count each of the 1-mana cantrips as about 1/2 of a land and your running 8 of the effect (which they do), then 22 isn't actually that much different than 25-26x.
Add the fact that they don't play much above 3CMC (mainly just Mentor, as the rest of the deck is mostly soft counters, discard, and removal).
We play a higher curve generally with more 3 drops and some 4 drops. Though, if you wanted to try UWR with 4x Serum Visions, I think you could cut 1-2 land and go to 23-24x. I think the same could be said about running 3-4x Anticipate.
Trouble with reducing land count with cantrips is that it only makes it more reliable to hit land drops for the first few turns (essentially helps you hit 2-3 lands). If the curve is higher, you still need a decent number of lands.
UWR's matchups don't vary all that much. We have a pretty decent game against the field, but not many very good or very bad ones. The deck can be tuned to beat most other decks, but cant be setup to beat everything. IMHO it breaks down along these lines:
Hard Matchups: Tron, Junk, BW Tokens, Burn
Ok Matchups: Infect, Twin, Affinity, Merfolk, Zoo, Martyr Life
Good Matchups: Bloom Titan, Scapeshift, Storm
Burn is a good (favored) matchup for UWR Geist. With 4 Lightning Helix, 4 Snapcasters and geists MD and SB Kor Firewalkers, Spellskite, Dispel and Negate, they have a really hard time against us. Lists with maindeck Spell Snare and Mana Leak have an even better matchup. Remand is weaker here.
Maybe they should be in the OK matchups. The Geist version isn't quite as good vs them as the control deck, due to the lack of many cheap mainboard counters as your mentioned. I reckon if they get a quick start on us, it's difficult to stabilize. If they have Guide turn 1, do we fetch shock to bolt it? Do we fetch a mountain and then risk color screw? I don't think it's a good match-up.
Certainly one that gets much better post board if we are packing stuff like Firewalker and Timely.
It's back! TCG/SCG States events were very favorable for UWR Midrange, catapulting the archetype from <1% of the metagame back to 2% of paper. Part of this is the increased relevance of Bolt in Modern. Another part of this is the continued importance of a proactive game plan, and UWR Midrange combines the best of red/white based removal with the best of UWR aggression. This deck keeps bouncing up and down in the metagame as it competes with UWR Control for the notice of UWR players, and it has suffered a lot in past months because of its inability to support the delve midrange monsters that are defining other decks. But its recent successes are great news for UWR players everywhere, and I hope to see the deck stick around in the coming months.
To read more on the metagame update or see the broader metagame context, check out my summary post below:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/566735-modern-metagame-breakdown-and-discussion-updated-4?comment=505
The GR Tron matchup is around 50/50 for UWR Geist I think. Stony Silence will often just stop them dead. They generally play around 19 activating artifacts and will often rely on them to get colored mana by cracking their eggs. Eggs can't be cracked with Stony Silence in play. If you're on the play, and they go turn one Urzaland and egg, and you follow up with Stony Silence, they'll have many dead cards and a fairly low chance of getting tron online anytime soon.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
-Aven Mindcensor to prevent, at the very least limit them from searching their library
-Ghost Quarter, because Tectonic Edge's 4-land requirement often means it comes in too late against Tron
-Molten Rain, because you need to slow them down, and Tron often times use their own Ghost Quarter on one of their own Trolands if you play a Sowing Salt on a Tron land. Also, Sowing Salt comes a turn later, which is why Molten Rain coming a turn earlier is a pretty big deal.
-Vendilion Clique, not great against Tron but its flash allows it to dodge a sweeper and swing the next turn. Also, if you're lucky it can snipe a Karn.
To clarify, Vedilion Clique can only grab non land cards. Therefor, It won't be taking any Tron lands from them.
I like him, and I think there is potential there, but I cannot see cutting any of the other creatures for him. Clique is far and away better and I wouldn't want him over Resto. Perhaps he's better than some of the 5-drops? I dunno, seems like most of our other options are better right now.
His main issue is that he doesn't do anything when he hits the board. He isn't particularly big, so will be outclassed by many of the other ground creatures. He has no evasion, or protection. Lastly, he requires WW.
Perhaps meta specific. If low aggro decks are really popular then he could be good.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
Hard Matchups: Tron, Junk, BW Tokens, Burn
Ok Matchups: Infect, Twin, Affinity, Merfolk, Zoo, Martyr Life
Good Matchups: Bloom Titan, Scapeshift, Storm
Discard tends to be pretty bad for us. Tron goes over the top and Burn is pretty relentless. Most of our other Matchups are manageable to good. A lot of the time we will be the underdog game 1 but post sideboard have the advantage.
Concerning the 4/5s. You could run Combust for Twin as it has flexibility vs Seige Rhino. I don't know if Roast is good enough for Modern, but it does kill many commonly sized Tarmogoyfs as well as Rhino, Tasigur, and Angler.
Actually, Lingering Souls is often a bigger problem than the beaters. Path generally does the heavy lifting there. However, Souls makes for a board state we can't effectively answer without a sweeper.
This is part of why I prefer having a transitional game plan in the sideboard (in reality we only really have to have 4 slots in the SB to swap out Geist). Some Matchups the control version of the deck is better positioned. Some Matchups the aggressive half is what you want.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Restoration Angel
Spells
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
2 Mana Leak
3 Celestial Colonade
1 Faerie Conclave
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Shatterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Flash Freeze
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Wear // Tear
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Batterskull
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Counterflux
I'd probably try to make room in the mainboard for the Batterskull and then find a way to fit in some dedicated hate for the robot menace.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
In your deck it seems like Monastery Mentor dies very easily. Have you considered adding some more counterspells to help protect it?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
The challenge is what to cut, which brings me to question two: do you think 24 lands would suffice? I'm thinking of cutting one Celestial Colonnade
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Restoration Angel
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Batterskull
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Remand
2 Spell Snare
2 Cryptic Command
1 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Electrolyze
1 Logic Knot
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Arid Mesa
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Shatterstorm
2 Wear//Tear
2 Flashfreeze
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Spellskite
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Counterflux
1 Stormbreath Dragon
I found myself losing a lot of grindy matchups. Grixis Delver could even grind harder than me. So, I added 1 Sphinx's Revelation, 1 Electrolyze, 2 Cryptic Command. This build also allows me to bring in Supreme Verdict against Tarmogoyf and friends .deck. I can just take out geist, insert Verdict and Stormbreath Drag and I can out grind just about any green base deck like jund abzan or whatever. Putting in these high end spells doesn't hurt the aggro matchups as much as you would think. Previously, I would lose to aggro because I stabalize, but don't have many spells that really seal the deal, then die to a creature or burn spell off the top. Cryptic Command really closes out most chances of winning for my opponent once I stabalize. Not to mention topdecking a Sphinx's Rev after the dust settles REALLY stops most decks in their tracks. We have some of the best early reaction spells in Modern, they allow us to live until turn 6 against almost any deck, allowing time for Crytics, Dragons, and Revelation to take over. You get all of this while still accidentally winning off T3 Geist with backup.
The Esper decks play stuff like Thought Scour, Serum Visons, Gitaxian Probe, and Anticipate. This is in addition to Remand.
If you count each of the 1-mana cantrips as about 1/2 of a land and your running 8 of the effect (which they do), then 22 isn't actually that much different than 25-26x.
Add the fact that they don't play much above 3CMC (mainly just Mentor, as the rest of the deck is mostly soft counters, discard, and removal).
We play a higher curve generally with more 3 drops and some 4 drops. Though, if you wanted to try UWR with 4x Serum Visions, I think you could cut 1-2 land and go to 23-24x. I think the same could be said about running 3-4x Anticipate.
Trouble with reducing land count with cantrips is that it only makes it more reliable to hit land drops for the first few turns (essentially helps you hit 2-3 lands). If the curve is higher, you still need a decent number of lands.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=84367
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=84370
Burn is a good (favored) matchup for UWR Geist. With 4 Lightning Helix, 4 Snapcasters and geists MD and SB Kor Firewalkers, Spellskite, Dispel and Negate, they have a really hard time against us. Lists with maindeck Spell Snare and Mana Leak have an even better matchup. Remand is weaker here.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
Certainly one that gets much better post board if we are packing stuff like Firewalker and Timely.
Modern: R Skred -- WBG Melira Co -- URW Nahiri Control
Legacy: R Mono Red Burn -- UWB Stoneblade
Commander: R Krenko, Mob Boss -- WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon -- WUBRG Maze’s End
Other: R No Rares Red (Standard) -- URC Izzet Tron (Pauper)